With all the new legislation making owners liable for their pit bulls, I think the sun is setting on that breed.

People who want dogs will choose less dangerous breeds (and less expensive to insure.)

they are raised. My mother has too pits and both are sweethearts.

so they are a dangerous breed.

control how humans raise their children either. Because some people grow up to be violent should we ban the human race too?

I could go on and on.

Pit bulls are the evil dog du jour ... All large and/ or powerful dogs have the potential to be dangerous .... they also have the same potential to be wonderful.


We can't control how people raise them (all large and/or powerful dogs) ... so they are a(ll) dangerous breed(s)

what I think is "du jour" about pit bulls is the ownership of them. There seems to be a pit bull fad among people, a lot of whom don't know or care how to own their dogs safely.

" a lot of whom don't know or care how to own their dogs safely." Owning a large and /or powerful dog is a big responsibility.

One of the largest problems is that VERY FEW people can actually identify a pit bull ... and all large powerful "squat' or thick dogs are labelled pit bulls.

It is NOT a specific breed of dog that is the problem it is a specific breed of owner (regardless of breed of dog they own).

that's a lot of days! I can recall the neighbor's SIL buying one that long ago, and they were already a controversial breed then!

Interesting.

I attribute "evil" to those that train dogs or force dogs to fight.

I attribute irresponsible to owners that have dogs that they do not train, monitor, spay/neuter or control. They are the problem. they should not own or be responsible for any large or powerful dog.

I had no idea what a pit bull was until the last 10 or so years ... at least around here the Rottweilers were the danger dogs until about ten years ago.

When I was young it was the very "evil" German Shepherd

They are all dangerous (so are labs and Golden Retrievers) ... if their owners suck

In post #14, YOU said,

"Pit bulls are the evil dog du jour ..."

You seemed to recognize that my use of the word, in context, was quite different than the use in the previous post or in your subject line. In context it is part of a phrase.

I was pointing out that particular breeds of dogs have always been singled out as "evil" (it has trended between multiple breeds and has perpetuated the problem through ignorance) ... by folk that don't want to address the real issue or are incapable of addressing the issue .


Animals are not capable of evil (simply my opinion), but people are capable of attributing that characteristic toward them.

People that have pets need to assume responsibility for these pets ... spaying and neutering, training, and doing what is necessary to maintain control of them (this may include not have a large and powerful dog in many cases)

It is all how they are used. My dad has two guns and they harm no one.

are full of them.

This addresses it:

Owning a pet is a big responsibility ... the "bigger" (or more powerful) a pet is, the larger the responsibility is.

The problems are directly attributable to irresponsible and or jack-ass owners

As you can see with the JAVMA published study, there are a number of preventable factors that are present in fatal attacks. That may or may not be the same for nonfatal attacks, I don't know.

Your summary is a good gut-instinct explanation, but I'd probably leave a little room for changing demographics. The world has become much more urban/suburban in the past 50 years, and sometimes it just takes a couple of generations before change works its way into the social fabric.

When I was young I lived in several regions of the country, all of them rather rural. No one fenced in their yards or used leashes for their dogs. We moved to a suburban area, though, and within two years a friend of mine was mauled by a pair of leashed dobermans the owner couldn't control. The owner unquestionably fit your profile, but here's the thing - he was living in a place where he grew up; a place that had gone from farmland rural in his childhood to being in the middle of suburbia in his late middle age.

Social change at the individual level is sometime unfortunately slow.

Part of the demographic change is in the type of person that may want to acquire the dogs. I have seen folk that wanted a "pit bull" type dog for protection. They would not abuse the dog, but they do not have the fortitude or knowledge about powerful dogs that is required for ownership .... sadly, they do not know that they do not know.

I think we are all aware of the jackass that uses their dog as an accoutrement (for intimidation) ... those folk should not own, hamsters much less powerful dogs.

In your Doberman example ... the owner clearly was either unaware of what was necessary for him to do to control two large and powerful dogs (much less one). It was ignorance on his part (not necessarily malfeasance, but ignorance).

I grew up with a golden retriever ... we lived in a very "urban" suburb of Detroit. Yards were fenced and dogs were walked on leashes ... but we also understood dogs can and do "escape" and break free .... the idea is to have a very trained dog, especially, if they are large and powerful.

Besides, in the USA pitbull is a type of dog, not necessarily a breed. It's difficult to identify a true pit - the media and police will label any stocky short-haired dog with a square-ish head a pitbull.

Lack of socialization, neutering and proper training will make any dog dangerous.

Once all the pitbulls are euthanized it will be the Rottweilers, the Dobies and the German Shepherds. And the Cane Corsos, the Argentine Dogos, etc. etc.

but I agree, most humans should not own one. Why? Because they turn their dogs into killers with their ignorance of canine behavior.

because when a pit bull does bite, the damage is severe.

That being said, they're usually not biters unless they have been provoked. Just the presence of another dog is enough to provoke some of them.

Every pit bull I've met has been a sweetie. I still wouldn't have one in the same house with kids under 10 or so.

I misstated that. IIRC it was Maryland which extended the liability not only to the owners, but also to the landlord if he/she is knowledgeable that the owner has a pit bull.

To my mind, that would mean most landlords won't want the liability and just prohibit any pit bull owners as tenants.

landlords are usually the last to 'know'.

They are responsible for most deaths to humans by a large margin. And I can only wonder about the statistics for little dogs and cats that fall victim to pit bulls.

There was an incident in my area a while back where a pit bull jumped up and yanked the smaller dog right of the elderly owners arms.

my neighbor lets his pit bull run loose. I am afraid of exactly this event happening. Poor puppy. Those dogs are becoming a real scourge, even in suburban settings.

"The pitbull's owner, Denise Cafagna, was issued a summons for having a dog at large and having an unlicensed dog, and allowed to bring her pitbull home, officials said."

That she let her dog run loose and didn't bother to license it tells me the dog was not properly cared for, properly handled or socialized.

The same thing could have happened with any of the larger breeds.

and at a higher rate per their population than pitbulls.

Pit bulls rank very, very high on the international temperament testing.

Again, it's the owners, not the dogs.

happy, happy, running JOY!!

or they might lick someone to death.

Dog fighting is a particularly evil sport and they often kill the losers. Dogs bred for a specific purpose are going to excell at that compared to other breeds.

stupid, irresponsible. My kid got bit in the face and privates by a 5 lb terrier whose owner falls into the stupid, irresponsible category. Was lucky I was standing by the grab them.

What is they say about great minds ...?

Just came running out of someone's home, across a street full of traffic, snarling. I've got two leashes in my hands so I can't kick it hard enough to stop it so it pops my female then goes for my male. A person, who denied being the owner, got there 30 seconds later and grabbed it and ran off. A cop saw the whole thing go down and wanted me to press charges but after checking my dogs I saw no major injuries and declined because I don't want to have to deal with the non-owner/non-responsible person(s) and while it could have been worse, it wasn't. The attacking dog did not bite and hold -- it just put it teeth on both of my dogs.

If your dog is attacked by any other dog and it is bite-and-hold you have to knock the wind out of it. Don't hit it in the head. Don't try to pry its jaws open. Just keep kicking it below the rib cage until you knock the wind out of it and it will open its mouth. You can also kick it as hard as you can in the testicles because chances are, it has a set, and that is a big part of the problem. A wide collar on your own dog's neck can help keep the attacker from getting to the veins and pepper spray (allegedly) can help stop a charging dog but good luck deploying it in time.

The owner disappeared while my son chased after our dog -- who had outrun her attacker but first sustained injuries that cost $900 at the vet.

I'll tell my son about kicking under the chest.

It did bite and hold on my right elbow (because I grabbed it's collar when it jumped up toward my face and neck). It was an American bull terrier, about 80 pounds. It was crushing down on my elbow and just hanging on with my blood running down the sides of its mouth. I was really afraid of letting that dog get me on the ground but mostly just trying get my right arm back before it got the tendons so after a couple of left hands to its nose which didn't phase it, I stuck two of my fingers from my left hand as far as I could up its nostrils. That worked. The owner offered no apologies at all. Just told me "you didn't meet the real Gus" and "he has issues with men."

Dogs have a very high pain threshold, especially when fighting, but they have to breath. Another method, depending on the position of the dog(s) is to step on their stomach. Same thing, they have to breath. I don't want to hurt any dog but I'll be damned if I am going to let one cripple me or my dogs so it is good to have methods that work and won't cause lasting injuries.

for having the presence of mind and wherewithal to kick the stuffing out of that nasty animal.

Most folks would probably wind up getting themselves mauled, as well as having their pet shredded.

Last edited Fri Apr 18, 2014, 07:17 PM - Edit history (1)

I have seen other dog owners who carry those 4-inch switchblades because of the experiences they have had. You can flick the blade out in one motion. ETA: I don't recommend knives. Try to use the breathing and soft spots first. Very few dog on human attacks are fatal. Dogs are reacting, sometimes its fear-based aggression (paranoia, in effect). Generally not trying to kill, although if they do bite-hold-shake (like in the first video below) you're in trouble. Serious trouble.

There are many kinds of bites. From the 'give me space' nip up to Bite-and-Hold, almost as bad as it gets, but the top level is bite-hold-shake. That's how dogs kill something. Two videos show what works and doesn't:

Doesn't work:

And it was because our dog wasn't leashed. She stays very close because she's cautious, but when the pit (and the shepherd with him) came running out of nowhere, the pit bull got one big chomp in and she was off, like a racer. The other dogs quickly gave up the chase. If she'd been on a leash my son would have been kicking and he or his girlfriend could have gotten bitten, too.

And these owners didn't do a thing, either. Just took their dogs to go bite someone else, I guess.

That owner should not have that dog. A new rescue does NOT belong in a public place, including a public dog park. Especially if the "rescuer" knows the dog has issues.

This is the sort of clueless idiot person who perpetuates the problem.

EMS was called. I went to ER. My dogs went to our vet. Cops called her vet because she had no tags for the dog. The vets office was NOT surprised by the call.

Her attitude was the root of the problem. Caring and wanting to help a dog with a second chance. I get that. But over confident and in denial is a recipe for disaster. Basically like an enabler in alcoholism who stays in an abusive relationship while empathizing with the abuser. I think it is more conscious denial, never blaming or correcting the dog, than just being stupid. Relating to and feeling sorry for the dog, thinking it was abused and then excusing its behavior on that basis.

When the cop came her dog was in her car and that's when she told me "you didn't meet the real Gus" and she motions toward the car and the dog goes off! Barking, snapping, hammering the window glass with its paw. The cop looked at me and then read her the riot act.

It's great that she thinks she is Cesar Milan and wants to help a dog but I didn't sign up for that stuff. Let her "be the pack leader" at home until she knows the dog better, I think.

"Her attitude was the root of the problem."

Exactly. She's not a real rescuer. She's an idiot.

characteristics.

My brother had to get a flock of ducks for his border collie to herd

Beagles tend to be very barky and will put their nose to the ground to follow a scent.

Setters like to hunt birds

Pointers point.

Grey hounds run.

Anyone who looks for a dog is advised of the special behavior to be expected of that breed. Somehow though, no pit bull ever bites unless there is a bad owner.

I don't think a dog has to be a pure bred pit bull to behave as one. The argument that only certain breeds are pit bulls is specious. When the average person identifies a dog as a pit bull they are looking at a set of physical characteristics. It's reasonable to assume that a dog bred fora certain look is also bred for a certain behavior.

Also, many dogs identified by the media as "pit bulls" are either crosses with other breeds, or a different breed entirely such as presa canarios. These 80-100 lb. monsters you hear about are not purebred pits - the breed just doesn't get that large, unless crossed with something bigger like a mastiff.

And I don't own any dogs myself. I'm more of a cat person. But I've known pit bulls who were just as "mellow" and companionable as any other dog - which makes me suspect that it really is as much the owner as the dog.

When we look only at breed we are looking at the wrong end of the dog.

Nads = bads

These people don't want a family dog - they want an attack dog that they know will rip anything apart if they tell it to. It makes them feel tough.

my roommate said I didn't get him neutered. I explained it was like people get, a vasectomy vs castration. The 24 yr old man had no idea there was a difference, thought men had theirs cut off when they got a vasectomy.

The vet was interesting, wanted to know why I wanted to neuter my dog. It took me aback, but talking further he was a sweet full grown dog without behavior issues, I just didn't want to make more puppies, so the vasectomy and all turned out well. After I picked my jaw up off the floor from my roommate's ignorance.

And yes, he was a nut swayer dude.

for many it is just a financial thing -- people are doing their best to share what little they have with an adopted dog.

For others it is a dog fighting thing. Since dog sales are mostly unregulated, dog fighting is, effectively, unregulated. I doubt that many fighting dogs go to a legit vet. We know that some of the injured dogs get dumped on the street (alive) but the other ones ? If someone has a fighting dog they want the balls on it because they can sell the puppies or stud. And intact males are far more aggressive -- 85% of fatal dog on human attacks are by intact male dogs.

There are laws against dog fighting and animal abuse in general, and they get used, but in my state, if you want to shoot a deer you have to get a hunting license and buy a tag for each deer you plan to kill in advance. If you want to buy a dog, you simply look at the flyers in any grocery store bulletin board or vet's office lobbies and go buy a dog. Cash and carry. No record of the purchase. NO RESPONSIBILITY for what happens to the animal.

I worked with a maltese that was rescued from a dog fighting ring and my neighbor adopted a Boxer which had also been used in fighting. I think many people have no idea what goes on in dog fighting. They can buy or steal purebreds off the street and use them as bait dogs. That's what the maltese was and he had mega fear-aggression. He would freak out when someone rang their doorbell (a bell like in some fight rings). He died about a year after she adopted him from a heart attack when someone rang the door bell. R.I.P Casper.

ripped her apart in seconds. It was savage.

It's unfortunate that someone's misfortune and pain is someone's political dog-whistle. The lack of compassion, combined with the sheer ignorance is almost astonishing.

what sense does that make? What is policial about pit bulls?

like this 9-year old - yesterday's story

"He said he was walking along the sidewalk when he saw two pit bulls coming after him. He started to run away when one of them latched onto his leg," said Detective Terence Fife, East Chicago Police Department.

Police say it happened on the 3500 block of Pennsylvania. The boy's mother says they live on the block and Garcia was walking to the basketball courts when he was attacked.

"He laid there and played dead, the dog continued to mangle on his legs," said Josleyn.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news%2Flocal&id=9507703



of course, some would prefer stories like this not be shared

R.I.P. Little One.

I've often experienced this myself. There were times when I was convinced that 2 dogs would LOVE each other, but after a couple of sniffs they were entangled in a "death match".

Although it may sound like a "death match" to you and me, no actual damage is done - it's just all mirrors. the defeated dog isn't violentley injured.

If you read the article, none of the injuries were life-threatening. The dog died during surgery because of "liver damage". The humans that got between them were described as having "scratches" on their hands.

When I had a urban residence with a Basenji-German Sherhard mix (pound puppy) met on neutral territory (in the street) my neighbor's German Shephard they sniffed around each other and ended up battling for territory. I stupidly got between them trying to "break it up" - the neighbor's dog (who was a friend of mine) bit through my hand. NOT a "scratch", but through my hand. Once he realized (I could see it in his eyes) who it was, he let go.

My point is that we tend to see things via human eyes - we don't see them through dog eyes.

The fact that in this instance humans have called the dog a "pit bull" has nothing to do with it. And the CDC and other scientific data agrees with me.

that poor little dog is one big bruise.

Dias' husband came running out and tried separating the two. A neighbor also helped stop the attack, police said. Both suffered scratches to their hands, officials said. Lulu had severe bruising to her midsection with both exterior and internal injuries, according to photos of the dog.

Meet Tator Tot, winner of PETA's Heroic Dog Award.



http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/23631918/rescued-pit-bull-rescues-4-year-old-amid-blood-sugar-crash

"He said he was walking along the sidewalk when he saw two pit bulls coming after him. He started to run away when one of them latched onto his leg," said Detective Terence Fife, East Chicago Police Department.

Police say it happened on the 3500 block of Pennsylvania. The boy's mother says they live on the block and Garcia was walking to the basketball courts when he was attacked.

"He laid there and played dead, the dog continued to mangle on his legs," said Josleyn.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news%2Flocal&id=9507703

***********************************************
The really disturbing part, (aside from the fact that the dog owner had 5 children)


Last year, the dog's owner was cited for a code violation after the same pit bull was involved in another attack. But city officials said that at that point, the owner complied with all codes and regulations, and at that point the dog was returned to her.

No charges have been filed in the attack.

What a cutie.

Me and my best friend had a night flight and we both lived off base. We decided to ride our motorcycles in. We turned down the road and saw 3 pits attacking what looked like it had been a Scottie, it was dead and two were fighting over it when the third turned on the lady.

Me and my buddy stopped at the side wall jumped off our bikes, my buddy had an asp in his bag, I didn't have anything other than my leather flight jacket. My friends proceeded to wail on the dog that was attacking the lady and I grabbed the other two by the collar (big mistake).

By this time another guy who lived across the street came out and helped us out. He grabbed one of the two that were now on me, and I managed to get the one I had pinned.

Another 5 minutes go by and EMS & LEO roll up. The cops wanted to shoot the dogs but by this point the owner was out and screaming and making the situation even more stressful. Animal control showed up and got the pits and terriers. One of the pits died during the altercation as well.

If we hadn't be there when we did that lady would be dead. If that guy hadn't come out when he did I would have been severely injured.

My first dog in 94 was a pitbull that I found in a dumpster. He was all black with a white stripe down the middle of his back. Turns out the breeder dumped the runts in the dumpster and hoped they would starve before anyone noticed them.

He was skin and bones and me an my wife bottle fed him for 3 weeks. Named him Skunky. I don't know if he realized I saved his life, but he loved me unconditionally, he would go into depression whenever I deployed, not eat, and my wife would have to take him to the vet.

When he passed, it felt like my heart had been ripped out. I took two days leave, had a private cremation and was never able to pick them up.

With all that said, I probably will never own another pit.

She had a couple of scars on her face and was under weight and filthy. A friend of mine took her away from someone and brought her to me. I didn't want her, I didn't want any dog. My cat had just passed and I was enjoying not having any pets. But I got to tell you, she's the best dog I've ever had and I wouldn't trade her for the world.

Like a neighbor's dog was recently killed by a husky. I'm not a fan of pit bulls but this doesn't seem pit bull specific to me.