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salvorhardin

(9,995 posts)
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 07:15 PM Mar 2012

When Poverty Was White (or yet another reason Charles Murray is full of s***)

CARRIE BUCK, or rather her last name, appears just once in the books of Charles Murray, the conservative sociologist and author of the recent work “Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010,” his portrait of the decline of poor white Americans. To find it, you have to look through the endnotes for the introduction to his most famous book, “The Bell Curve,” in which he cites Buck v. Bell, the 1927 Supreme Court case that approved Ms. Buck’s involuntary sterilization.
Related in Opinion

It’s a striking omission, because her case highlights the historical blindness of Mr. Murray’s narrow focus on the cultural and policy changes of the 1960s as the root of white America’s decline. The story of white poverty, as Ms. Buck’s story illustrates, is much longer and more complex than he and his admirers realize or want to admit.

...

Involuntary sterilization was the early 20th century’s remedy for what Mr. Murray blames on changes in the 1960s. But it was precisely the changes of that era — for black civil rights, women’s rights, poor people’s rights — and socially committed Catholicism that ended this inhumane practice.

Along the way, though, something got lost. Ms. Buck, sterilization, white poverty — this older history disappeared in the mid-20th century, when prosperity isolated the stigmata of poverty in black Americans. In 1965 Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s “The Negro Family: The Case for National Action” laid blame on a black “tangle of pathology” of ghetto culture. Mr. Moynihan voiced a logic widespread at the time, translating the disarray associated with poverty into a racial trait.

Full oped: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/opinion/sunday/when-poverty-was-white.html&pagewanted=all
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When Poverty Was White (or yet another reason Charles Murray is full of s***) (Original Post) salvorhardin Mar 2012 OP
Fascinating - thanks for the link Sparkly Mar 2012 #1
Yep salvorhardin Mar 2012 #3
Isn't poverty still white? MrScorpio Mar 2012 #2
Mr. Murray only cares about White Poverty... ellisonz Mar 2012 #5
actually, Murray's latest book just wrote off the white poor as genetically inferior. provis99 Mar 2012 #6
Not quite... ellisonz Mar 2012 #7
Saw that asshole on Colbert last night... ellisonz Mar 2012 #4
Gods, what a ridiculous sack of moldy herpderp sudopod Mar 2012 #9
Don't be bringing reason into this... ellisonz Mar 2012 #10
If we can't repress women, minorities, and the poor, then who's left? sudopod Mar 2012 #11
Oh it's much more insidious than that... ellisonz Mar 2012 #12
lol XD nt sudopod Mar 2012 #13
Oh I forgot my supporting evidence... ellisonz Apr 2012 #14
And more evidence White America needs to stop being shiftless/immoral... ellisonz Apr 2012 #15
Kick for Fighting Right-Wing Nonsense ellisonz Mar 2012 #8

Sparkly

(24,149 posts)
1. Fascinating - thanks for the link
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 07:38 PM
Mar 2012

I could see right-wingers wanting to go back to all that. Erasing the 1960s, as they wish they could, would be a step in that direction.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
5. Mr. Murray only cares about White Poverty...
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 09:01 PM
Mar 2012

...because something can be done about it since they're worthy of the redemptive efforts of reformers. All others are in their condition because of their inherit low "unit trait" value, which although may from time to time may display well on the Intelligence Quotient is in fact just a product of a morally bankrupt culture. We shall create separate but equal institutions for their betterment so that they do not influence the White Poor. No eugenics here, just good old fashioned American sociology! Let the phrenology commence...





(This is massive )

 

provis99

(13,062 posts)
6. actually, Murray's latest book just wrote off the white poor as genetically inferior.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:32 PM
Mar 2012

Social darwinism run amok, again.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
7. Not quite...
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:46 PM
Mar 2012

Murrary's argument is that this is a cultural development and not a product of genetics, it's in addition to his previous work, not a replacement.

From Niall "Tool" Ferguson's review:

Murray meticulously chronicles and measures the emergence of two wholly distinct classes: a new upper class, first identified in The Bell Curve as "the cognitive elite," and a new "lower class," which he is too polite to give a name. And he vividly localizes his argument by imagining two emblematic communities: Belmont, where everyone has at least one college degree, and Fishtown, where no one has any. (Read: Tonyville and Trashtown.)

The key point is that the four great social trends of the past half-century--the decline of marriage, of the work ethic, of respect for the law and of religious observance--have affected Fishtown much more than Belmont. As a consequence, the traditional bonds of civil society have atrophied in Fishtown. And that, Murray concludes, is why people there are so very unhappy--and dysfunctional.

What can be done to reunite these two classes? Murray is dismissive of the standard liberal prescription of higher taxes on the rich and higher spending on the poor. As he points out, there could hardly be a worse moment to try to import the European welfare state, just as that system suffers fiscal collapse in its continent of origin.

What the country needs is not an even larger federal government but a kind of civic Great Awakening--a return to the republic's original foundations of family, vocation, community, and faith.

http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Apart-State-America-1960-2010/dp/0307453421/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332992417&sr=8-1


As Stephen Colbert noted in his interview, this is a book in which there are no Black people. Murray's basically arguing that the myriad civil rights movements of the last few decades produced a cultural shift that took poor white people away from "the traditional bonds of civil society" and toward a sinful existence. It's Social Darwinism but in application and not in cause, that's what the Bell Curve pretended to be about. This is honestly an even more overt attempt at white washing the history of this country.

sudopod

(5,019 posts)
9. Gods, what a ridiculous sack of moldy herpderp
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:36 AM
Mar 2012

Vast changes in the working class over the last 50 years? LOL, name any fifty year span when there weren't vast changes. The working class of 1910 looked nothing like that of 1960, and the working class of 1860 sure as hell didn't look like the one of 1910.

This is the same nonsense that all of the Pat Buchannans of the world are spouting: they're mad that the world doesn't look like it did when they were kids. Some try to put it in terms of Elvis and cars with fins on, and some (like Murray) want to undo all social change in the last half century.

sudopod

(5,019 posts)
11. If we can't repress women, minorities, and the poor, then who's left?
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 02:42 PM
Mar 2012

I guess there are some dolphins and great apes left, but it's just not the same.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
12. Oh it's much more insidious than that...
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 02:52 PM
Mar 2012

...what will bring White America back together is clean-burning, safe, efficient natural gas, and its friends tar sands and shale oil rock. Cheap energy is bedrock of our culture!



ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
14. Oh I forgot my supporting evidence...
Thu Apr 12, 2012, 04:31 PM
Apr 2012


Get up and stop being a bunch of wimps White America - walk, ride a bike, take public transit, do something!

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
15. And more evidence White America needs to stop being shiftless/immoral...
Thu Apr 12, 2012, 04:37 PM
Apr 2012
Obama touts blue collar values to Michigan voters
The Daily Caller - By Neil Munro - The Daily Caller | The Daily Caller – Tue, Feb 28, 2012

[Obama's] emphasis on blue collar values is aimed at narrowing the wide gap between Obama’s 50-plus percent support among professional-class graduates and his low-30s support among blue collar workers who dislike his social progressivism, secular and liberal goals, and his emphasis on federal direction. That cultural gap has repeatedly caused the defeat of many Democratic candidates, and is expected to hurt Obama in the November election.

“You want to talk about values? Hard work, that’s a value,” Obama declared. “Looking out for one another, that’s a value. The idea that we’re all in it together, that I am my brother’s keeper; I am my sister’s keeper, that is a value,” he said, ending his speech with a repeated religious reference.

“God bless you and the work you do, and God bless America,” said Obama, who lost support in 2008, when he was seen dismissing Americans who “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant.”

Obama’s emphasis on values even prompted him to tout the autos once dismissed by progressives as so-called “gas-guzzlers.”

That's what the Righties think
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