...because US citizens are a threat to the national assholes security! IMO our government is turning against us ...is that a too much Capt Obvious statement?

reading the United States of Fear by Engelhardt. He explains how it started and developed. I don't know that it can be reversed now without an "event". I see more and more signs of the decline every day. It has gone from surprising to enervating to depressing. I used to think money was the answer, but it's not--not even close.

The would know if certain employees had contact with media people.

Orwell was an optimist.

They are not about to give up any power and you cant make them. IMO their power exceeds that of the President.

"Everyone" already knew about it. It was all leeegaaallll anyway.

So why would the NSA go to this extreme over "its just metadata11!!!1!" ?

The 1% give him enough for appearances and that's it.

Last edited Sat Apr 26, 2014, 01:51 PM - Edit history (1)

and are doing a splendid job of making everyone look over there shoulder every five minutes. I went into my local bank yesterday for the first time in a couple of years. It was like entering the ministry of finance in some spy novel. Managers, all mid-eastern, walking around peering over employees' shoulders. I went to the counter head-bowed and answered the questions about my transaction perfunctorily, nodded my appreciation to the teller and returned to my car, sad but wiser. What has happened here?

What has happened to America?

that he missed because the US government 'silenced' him????

Has he missed an opportunity to publish op-eds in The Guardian or otherwise interact with the public???

He's not being silenced.....it's just that when he speaks, he comes across as a fool.

countless others, he doesn't. No, he didn't save America, but he extended the time given to right itself again. And I thank him for that. I pray others like him come forward.

I get your comment. It is not the Snowdens I would send to Russia. There are others too deserving.

It said the administration is making moves to ensure that there isn't a second Snowden. What do you think of those moves?

It's talking about NSA attempts to silence new "Snowdens."

Anti-Americans still hate America, and want the U.S. to do away with the security classification system, so that they can bitch about the tiny handful of terrorists the U.S. kills, even if the result helps the terrorists perpetrate their acts. Pro-Americans still believe the U.S. is effective force for security and stability around the world, even if it occasionally makes mistakes.

No one's changed their views one whit. So where's the "backfire" ?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

I guess those "mistakes" deserve a hearty and meaningful "Tsk, tsk" from the "Reality Based Community".

What is this from? Drones? Refusal to take Che seriously? Prosecuting people who violate the terms of a Security Clearance they signed?

Oh, oh, I know! Is it all Obama's fault too?

Please proceed, Tierra.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

Of course, just a "few" deaths by drones, raids, torture, don't count because the nice killers are "protecting" us from....something.

And Japan. And maybe the civil war.

But even then, you're not even close. Millions implies at least 2 million deaths. There were 800k casualties in the Civil War, but the total number of casualties in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia put together caused by U.S. forces were only about 200,000. For comparison, the NVA killed about 250k of South Vietnamese refugees as they attempted to flee, or those put in their "re-education" camps. (In Cambodia, the Khmer Rouge killed about three million, all of them civilian.)

Unless you're blaming the U.S. for that as well. I'm not sure. It's difficult to wrap one's mind such pure, single minded, hatred and anger against a single nation. Have you considered living elsewhere?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

You seem to be blaming the United States for:

1] Militarily justifiable casualties caused by the North Vietnamese
2] Militarily justifiable casualties caused by the South Vietnamese
3] The relatively "small" number of civilian murders caused by the South Vietnamese (in the thousands)
4] The massive slaughter of innocent South Vietnamese by the NVA (in the hundreds of thousands)

All of which are rolled up into the statistics you cited.

Are you blaming the U.S. for the 200,000 casualties in the Syrian Civil war as well?

Again let me reiterate. While I wasn't exactly a fan of our war in Vietnam, you clearly want to blame the U.S. for acts of war we weren't responsible for, and this is prima-fascia evidence for a hatred of the U.S. that extends far beyond being able to look rationally at the facts. And yes, it leads to the obvious question: why do you live in a nation you're so angry at?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

Or, more specifically those people who justify killing and rationalize it with "patriotism".

The "fact" is that this nation is responsible for the killing of millions. It is not alone in that. Overlooking that, or dismissing it as "rational", is an act of callousness toward humanity.

Do I love America? No. Do I hate America? Do I owe it any allegiance, or feel required to sing only its praises? No. I am, on paper, and due to birth, an American. As an American, I regard it my responsibility to hold our public servants responsible for their crimes.

In answer to to your question about Syria. The American government is supplying military aid to Syrian rebels which, believe it or not, they use to kill people. Do I hold our government responsible for deaths in Syria? Yes. Just as I hold it responsible for deaths incurred with our aid in the "little" wars we "helped" in during the not so Cold war. See Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Congo, Greece, Afghanistan, Honduras, Angola, Mozambique, South Africa, and many more.

When a dictatorial regime seeks to slaughter thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions, the only "moral" thing to do then is to turn a blind eye to the suffering of their victims and allow the genocide to take place... Okay. I don't agree with your morality, but at least its logically self-consistent. Like a WW2 conscientious objector, with a huge dollop of angry sanctimony thrown in.

At least you're not blaming us for the genocide in Rwanda then. President Clinton called it his greatest regret, but I guess you have his back on that. Anything goes, so long as we're not involved militarily and don't give arms away.

Oh wait. I'll bet that if American citizens do business with anyone who wins such a conflict, that makes the U.S. culpable too as well, I'm supposing.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

At one time admitted conservatives griping about how "Anti-Americans" "bitching" about the awful terrists we kill (TO KEEP YOU SAFE!!!) are really just supporting terrorists (Cause yer with us or agin' us!) would've netted a pretty swift tombstoning.

Now whining about how awful liberals don't support unlimited unaccountable power for the security state (Because they're terrorist sympathizers) is apparently considered an "argument".

When the people lead, the leaders will make their actions illegal, and then drive them out of the country.

The intelligence departments? Don't be do naive, just as the programs was developed and revealed by Snowden newer ones are developed.

Also if you believe everything Snowden has said is true and correct you might need to compare the statements he has made which contradicts himself. Now who are you going to believe.

Snowden, hands-down!

Did you believe the question he ask Putin was legitimate or is Snowden Putin's patsy?

instantaneously unless someone is firing at me.

What are they trying so hard to hide?

All I know is I trust Ron Wyden who has been trying to warn us for years that if we 'knew what they were doing, we the people would be very angry'.

And I know in a country where War Criminals not only walk free, but are asked for their 'expert' advice on FP, this is probably a stupid question, but why is Clapper, Bush Loyalist, liar to Congress, still making rules for this country?

Why has he not been charged, or at least FIRED, for lying to the people who supposedly serves?

There WILL be more Snowdens, he just ensured that and like Snowden, they will seek political asylum elsewhere. This country has gone so far downhill so rapidly, it makes your head spin.

be more worry over this Ukraine thing than the government is letting on. But you are right: we are near equals with the 1980's German Stasis in some respects. I just wonder how future Snowdens will be treated. Clapper should be on death row, IMO.

This cannot end well.

break it wide open, and then the authoritarians of the world will have to run like the rats they are when exposed to the sunlight.

It was in the late 1960s, when I was in the USAF, working at NSA headquarters. It was also the rule for military personnel. No media disclosures. Only the public affairs office could issue any statements. I think this is just a reminder of policy.

It's grounds for firing.

What amazes me is that anyone thinks that this is somehow new that employees of intelligence agencies are barred by policy from speaking to the press. Who wouldn't assume that this was the case?

That's the whole point of the classified information these agencies work with.

Once again, we have a supposed journalist using a piece of non-news and manufacturing outrage with it.

they just had the biggest and most embarrassing intelligence breach in decades...What did they think was going to happen? That the NSA was going to open the floodgates all of a sudden?