General Discussion

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts) Mon Apr 28, 2014, 01:33 PM Apr 2014

Rare Photos Show Us The REAL Women Behind Iconic Pin-Up Paintings Of The 50s

http://news.distractify.com/culture/arts/pin-up-photos/?v=1

Gil Elvgren is a painter known for the pin-up images he made in the 1950s. The iconic creations feature impossibly curvy ladies in silly situations, and until now, only the paintings have been seen. Nerve.com has now released the photographs upon which Elvgren based his paintings, and the similarities (and differences!) between them are really fun to see.

Who knew that so many everyday activities could be so conducive to leg-showing?

My own comment- I find these very erotic and much more likely to pique my interest than nude photos of real people in overtly sexual positions. Like Shunga, they allow enough "space" to use one's own imagination and there's also a sense of fun.

24 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Rare Photos Show Us The REAL Women Behind Iconic Pin-Up Paintings Of The 50s (Original Post) KittyWampus Apr 2014 OP

Interesting. And very much like modern photos that are condemned for over-airbrushing. Orrex Apr 2014 #1

Yes, but at least these old ones don't pretend to be real, photographic representations of Dark n Stormy Knight Apr 2014 #4

Difference in degree Orrex Apr 2014 #7

What you are missing here passiveporcupine Apr 2014 #10

Is the trend growing? Orrex Apr 2014 #12

Strange it happens when seemingly unnecessary Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #14

I don't have statistics to back up my belief it is a growing trend passiveporcupine Apr 2014 #15

OMG. Clearly no sense trying to discuss this with you. Adorable straw man you've got there, Dark n Stormy Knight Apr 2014 #16

Thanks--you're cute too. Orrex Apr 2014 #19

Again, nice straw-man. But, as I said before, I'm done with you on this issue. You are not even Dark n Stormy Knight Apr 2014 #22

Interesting that your raised consciousness inspires you to insult people Orrex Apr 2014 #24

So, what then do we do with the claims that toys like Barbie AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #13

not the same as air brushing lululu Apr 2014 #8

That's one interpretation Orrex Apr 2014 #9

Some of these paintings are less distorted than common modern commercial advertising... AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #11

So, do you always blame the victim, or just when they're female? Dark n Stormy Knight Apr 2014 #17

Do you always assume that viewers of art are so fragile, or only when they're female? Orrex Apr 2014 #20

Your consciousness would have to be raised far too many levels for you to even begin Dark n Stormy Knight Apr 2014 #21

That's not actually a rebuttal, you know. Orrex Apr 2014 #23

I will have to look at those when I am not at work. liberal N proud Apr 2014 #2

This is awesome geomon666 Apr 2014 #3

Damn... I could only wish to illustrate that well... Xyzse Apr 2014 #5

how do we know these aren't pictures taken recently to mimic the paintings? snooper2 Apr 2014 #6

Here is another "artist" whistler162 Apr 2014 #18

Orrex

(63,213 posts)

1. Interesting. And very much like modern photos that are condemned for over-airbrushing.

Reply to KittyWampus (Original post)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 01:36 PM

Apr 2014

Art has an extraordinarily long history of selective enhancement of the human form.

K/R

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)

4. Yes, but at least these old ones don't pretend to be real, photographic representations of

Reply to Orrex (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 02:35 PM

Apr 2014

women. I know they still objectify women, but imho in a less damaging way. The PhotoShop crap is even worse because it pretends the digitally enhanced women are real and attainable for most women.

Orrex

(63,213 posts)

7. Difference in degree

Reply to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 03:21 PM

Apr 2014

The PhotoShop crap is even worse because it pretends the digitally enhanced women are real and attainable for most women.

Does PhotoShop crap really hold up these "digitally enhanced women" as goals? How so? Or does it simply use these altered images to market a product by selling an image?

In all my travels online and IRL I have yet to meet anyone who believed that a photo is the real person, rather than a photo of the person.

Supermodels themselves have famously observed that even they don't look like their photos. In this day & age it would be simply naive for someone to think that the picture on a magazine cover or in an advertisement is an accurate representation of the real person rather than the severely doctored image of a product. This has been true for as long as pictures have been used to sell products.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)

10. What you are missing here

Reply to Orrex (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 04:24 PM

Apr 2014

In this day & age it would be simply naive for someone to think that the picture on a magazine cover or in an advertisement is an accurate representation of the real person rather than the severely doctored image of a product.

Is that young women (pre-teens and teens) growing up are this naive, and do feel that these photos represent what they should look like. This is why there is a growing trend in eating disorders.

Orrex

(63,213 posts)

12. Is the trend growing?

Reply to passiveporcupine (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 04:37 PM

Apr 2014

I'm not denying that it is, but the first several sites I consulted seem to indicate that the rate is fairly stable over the past few decades. I freely admit that I might be looking in the wrong place, so I will appreciate any links you can provide.

Since it's been shown that violent video games do not have a strong causal relationship to acts of real-life violence by mentally healthy individuals, I would be interested to learn why media portrayals of women have such a pervasive influence among mentally healthy individuals.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)

14. Strange it happens when seemingly unnecessary

Reply to Orrex (Reply #12)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 05:16 PM

Apr 2014

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)

15. I don't have statistics to back up my belief it is a growing trend

Reply to Orrex (Reply #12)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 05:51 PM

Apr 2014

But I do believe it is, partly due to our internet access to photos of models and stars who before were only available in magazines. The statistics of eating disorders are pretty scary.

Students:
• 91% of women surveyed on a college campus had attempted to control their weight through dieting. 22% dieted “often” or “always.”5
• 86% report onset of eating disorder by age 20; 43% report onset between ages of 16 and 20.6
• Anorexia is the third most common chronic illness among adolescents.7
• 95% of those who have eating disorders are between the ages of 12 and 25.8
• 25% of college-aged women engage in bingeing and purging as a weight-management technique.3
• The mortality rate associated with anorexia nervosa is 12 times higher than the death rate associated with all causes of death for females 15-24 years old.4
• Over one-half of teenage girls and nearly one-third of teenage boys use unhealthy weight control behaviors such as skipping meals, fasting, smoking cigarettes, vomiting, and taking laxatives.17
• In a survey of 185 female students on a college campus, 58% felt pressure to be a certain weight, and of the 83% that dieted for weight loss, 44% were of normal weight.16

http://www.anad.org/get-information/about-eating-disorders/eating-disorders-statistics/

Also, if you google are eating disorders increasing in the US, you will see a lot of articles that state that they are...especially among children.

Did You Know?
The rate of development of new cases of eating disorders has been increasing since 1950 (Hudson et al., 2007; Streigel-Moore &Franko, 2003; Wade et al., 2011).
There has been a rise in incidence of anorexia in young women 15-19 in each decade since 1930 (Hoek& van Hoeken, 2003).
The incidence of bulimia in 10-39 year old women TRIPLED between 1988 and 1993 (Hoek& van Hoeken, 2003).
The prevalence of eating disorders is similar among Non-Hispanic Whites, Hispanics, African-Americans, and Asians in the United States, with the exception that anorexia nervosa is more common among Non-Hispanic Whites (Hudson et al., 2007; Wade et al., 2011).

https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/get-facts-eating-disorders

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)

16. OMG. Clearly no sense trying to discuss this with you. Adorable straw man you've got there,

Reply to Orrex (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 08:20 PM

Apr 2014

though. "In all my travels online and IRL I have yet to meet anyone who believed that a photo is the real person, rather than a photo of the person."

Orrex

(63,213 posts)

19. Thanks--you're cute too.

Reply to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 09:55 PM

Apr 2014

If a viewer believes that the magazine picture is the actual person as the person actually appears, then that's the fault of the viewer. Or, if the viewer lacks the sophistication to make the distinction, then it's the responsibility of whoever takes care of the viewer.

Idealized human forms have been present since the dawn of artistic expression. The current crop of digitally enhanced photos is, at its core, no different.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)

22. Again, nice straw-man. But, as I said before, I'm done with you on this issue. You are not even

Reply to Orrex (Reply #19)

Tue Apr 29, 2014, 12:00 PM

Apr 2014

close to having the ability to comprehend how fked up your "reasoning" is.

Orrex

(63,213 posts)

24. Interesting that your raised consciousness inspires you to insult people

Reply to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 29, 2014, 12:17 PM

Apr 2014

Also, perhaps your raised consciousness could spare a moment to tell you what a straw man argument actually is, because you've twice invoked it incorrectly.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)

13. So, what then do we do with the claims that toys like Barbie

Reply to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 04:38 PM

Apr 2014

impact people's body image?

I'm not really seeing a difference here. (I assume both are problematic.)

lululu

(301 posts)

8. not the same as air brushing

Reply to Orrex (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 04:12 PM

Apr 2014

He was basically producing cartoon forms. Air brushing tries to deceive the viewer into thinking that's what the people actually look like.

Far sexier because the women look healthy, not like twigs or plastic surgery deformed.

Orrex

(63,213 posts)

9. That's one interpretation

Reply to lululu (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 04:18 PM

Apr 2014

I'd say that it's equally probable that the airbrushing--digital or otherwise--is intended to present an idealized representation of the person (just like the paintings). If the viewer can't distinguish between a photo and a real person, then that's the viewers' fault.

The distinction between manual painting & digital alteration is trivial; both are methods of presenting the stylzed image.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)

11. Some of these paintings are less distorted than common modern commercial advertising...

Reply to Orrex (Reply #9)

Mon Apr 28, 2014, 04:36 PM

Apr 2014

Some do the 'same' level of distortion, but some are actually pretty mild. Surprisingly so.

I agree, with you by the way, otherwise the extremely-stylized non-photo-real appearance of a doll, like Barbie, wouldn't be a body type issue at all. I think that completely dissolves the argument you were just presented with about it being non-photo-real.