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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPearson imposes gag order on teachers about test.
This will probably be one of my last posts about education at DU. Not worth the ugliness it brings out. Quite frankly I want to smile when someone says both the far left and far right are united against Arne Duncan's policies. It is just not true.
The far right is adamantly opposed to the new "reforms", but the left simply doesn't care enough to oppose them. Since the privatization of education has become a Democratic policy, those on the left seldom speak against it. Teachers and parents are getting very outspoken, but liberals in general don't really think it matters. It's really mostly a teacher/parent thing.
But I do think I will call attention to the fact that one of the largest testing companies has put a gag order on teachers.
The Backlash Against New Yorks Standardized Tests Is Getting Serious
Last year's exams, designed by Pearson, which has a $32 million contract with the state and were the first to adhere to Common Core requirements, garnered lots of heat for being overly long, riddled with product placement, and including confounding questions that, to many educators, were "inappropriately difficult."
This year, says Schroeter, they're even worse. "Last year, everyone was ready for it to be a fluke. People thought, okay, first year, first time out, it's going to be a mess. And by the time this year rolls around, people thought, 'Oh, they've had time to get it together and make a better assessment," she says. "But it just wasn't. You're skimming through the booklet and going, 'What? Wait a minute.'"
She said her teachers reported that students found the exams "demoralizing" and "frustrating." Rather than evaluating reading comprehension skills, Jenny Bonnet, principal of P.S. 150 in Tribeca says they were "more about having students have to flip back and forth and look at structural things versus having a deep understanding of what the passage is about ... When I first looked at the test, I was just in shock. I was having trouble with my fellow teachers we sat around and tried to answer some of the questions and I thought, This is ridiculous. I'm an adult, I should be able to answer these questions. If it's hard for me, these poor kids they must be incredibly confused."
Principals and their staff can't discuss specifics of the test because they're barred from doing so by a "gag order" another major concern. Neither teachers nor parents see the results in their entirety. The stakes are higher this year, too, because not only do results determine, in some cases, where kids can apply to middle schools, but they're also linked to school and teacher evaluations. "The level of agitation is growing," says Schroeter. "Not only were the expectations and the standards raised, and the tests made more difficult, the stakes attached to them became higher and higher."
A principal speaks out in the New York Times:
We Need to Talk About the Test
Id like to tell you what was wrong with the tests my students took last week, but I cant. Pearsons $32 million contract with New York State to design the exams prohibits the state from making the tests public and imposes a gag order on educators who administer them. So teachers watched hundreds of thousands of children in grades 3 to 8 sit for between 70 and 180 minutes per day for three days taking a state English Language Arts exam that does a poor job of testing reading comprehension, and yet were not allowed to point out what the problems were.
....At Public School 321, we entered this years testing period doing everything that we were supposed to do as a school. We limited test prep and kept the focus on great instruction. We reassured families that we would avoid stressing out their children, and we did. But we believed that New York State and Pearson would have listened to the extensive feedback they received last year and revised the tests accordingly. We were not naïve enough to think that the tests would be transformed, but we counted on their being slightly improved. It truly was shocking to look at the exams in third, fourth and fifth grade and to see that they were worse than ever. We felt as if wed been had.
For two years, I have suggested that the commissioner of education and the members of the Board of Regents actually take the tests Id recommend Days 1 and 3 of the third-grade test for starters. Afterward, I would like to hear whether they still believed that these tests gave schools and parents valuable information about a childs reading or writing ability.
We do not want to become cynics, but until these flawed exams are released to the public and there is true transparency, it will be difficult for teachers and principals to maintain the optimism that is such an essential element of educating children.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)make people see the reality of how Republican ideology has screwed with education and ruined it. It's as if the entire population had been turned into Stepford Wives and Husbands and are following the dictates of the a-hs that came up with ways to destroy education in this country, something they've been at for decades.
I'm very frustrated with the population of adults, and often find that they are more ignorant than any kids.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Susan Kimball, a kindergarten teacher, testified in a Missouri hearing against Common Core. With a shaky voice and tears in her eyes, Kimball described how she was being bullied by her administrators not to say anything negative.
I have been strongly discouraged from saying anything negative about Common Core by my administration and some school board members, Kimball said, her voice shaking.
Kimball described different instances where she, and others, were warned about speaking out.
In a professional development meeting, um, in-service in November, and at a faculty meeting in January, we were told in my building, and I quote, Be careful about what you post on Facebook, or talk about in the public regarding Common Core. Dont say anything negative. It could affect your job.
progressoid
(49,991 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,725 posts)You bring a needed perspective to the website.
catchnrelease
(1,945 posts)I know it has to be frustrating to deal with some of the responses you get here, but please know that your input is appreciated.
Chiquitita
(752 posts)Your posts on education are often all I read of DU!
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)I know you're surprised but while I don't always agree with the past practices, I sure as hell DISAGREE STRONGLY with these asshats. Starting from the TOP.
- Just remember: ''The fish stinks from the head.''
K&R
TeamPooka
(24,228 posts)Squinch
(50,954 posts)Bortman33
(102 posts)because there are a great many of us behind you and all who challenge the BS privatizing of the public school system.
AnotherMother4Peace
(4,246 posts)situation. I've been paying attention to it since, and it looks like this Principal/Bully is finally having to be accountable to the Board and community. I believe the posting of that situation really helped shine a bright light on that sad situation.
Madfloridian there is a reason why you are held in such high esteem here on DU - because you are a great truth teller. I can see the frustration, but you are making a difference.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)It shows the video, but to watch it you have to choose view on You Tube at bottom right.
That principal needs to go.
840high
(17,196 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)You're an important voice here. Don't let the uglies get you down!
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)CrispyQ
(36,470 posts)I always read your posts, Mad, & learn what a travesty our public school system has been turned into so corporations can profit.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)standardized tests. So did my two sons.
I've been saying for several years that new tests are not needed. There have been good tests out there since at least the 1950's when I was in grade school to asses how kids are doing.
Or, how about everyone has to take the GED to graduate high school? That's the base line, and I gather it's not terribly easy, so it's probably a good baseline. Students who take more course work than covered by the GED and are going off to college are taking things like the SATs, the ACT, and perhaps AP tests. All of those are already in place. We don't need all this bullshit of new expensive gag-order protected crappy tests.
It's also important to keep in mind that when No Child Left Behind first came about, the set up was that every school had to keep on improving every year, no matter where they started from. I'm thinking the general prediction was that by 2014 pretty much every single school in this country would be a failing school.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)students had schools that offered art and music programs. I find it obscene that the schools have some 32 millions of dollars to enrich the Testing Companies, and no monies to enrich the arts.
Of course, the art programs really help us conceive in a coherent and creative way. The wiring of a child's brain when that child has exposure to music and the arts is totally different than that of a child deprived of those things. This is all something that those in charge of running a Totalitarian State do not want or need to have happen. In fact, they need the exact opposite.
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)We know about the Bush involvement. We need to know who is getting the big $ on the dem side.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)both appointed by President Obama,
and both are fanatics about privatizing our Public Education system,
and channeling all those Tax Payer Dollars to the Private pockets of the well connected.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)Duncan was appointed in the first place. The man has no education degree, has never set foot in a k-12 classroom as a teacher, has no experience in it; in short, he knows very little about it. Oh, wait, I forgot, his mother was a teacher, so I guess that makes him "qualified". My parents were both teachers, so I suppose that means I can apply for the position after him? God knows I probably know more about k-12 education, teaching, and what teachers deal with than he does and will ever know. This corporatizing motherfucker is an insult to my parents, who gave their lives to the profession and it damn near killed both of them to do it, and all other dedicated, hard-working, underpaid, under-appreciated, frustrated teachers.
I just am floored that he was even considered, let alone named. It would be like naming me, with just a BA in history and no formal medical knowledge or experience whatsoever, as the head of the National Institutes of Health or something like that. Gah.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)scoring no child left behind tests, and it's not like I had access to student names or even the names of schools. They don't like the public to know how they do things.
tblue37
(65,393 posts)mopinko
(70,113 posts)i mean, do you get to blab about what is on the act if you are the one administering it?
and pearson is a big company. i have taken industrial proficiency tests with them. i would want to kill if i found out they had a leaker on staff. so would adobe.
policy seems sound to me.
kmlisle
(276 posts)You have trained and experienced professionals being gagged about a newly developed product in their field of expertise which is worth billions of dollars because of its scale and taxpayers money available. They are deliberately being kept out of the process of making this a fair and valid test for financial and political reasons.
Would you want your industrial proficiency test developed under conditions in which no one with knowledge of your industry participated or were allowed to help improve the test to make it fair and valid? And if the reason they were doing this was to show that the staff of your organization were incompetent and could all be fired when their partners take over the firm and drain its resources a la vulture capitalism?
You are absolutely right that there needs to be testing security, but first tests must also be valid and fair and their purpose should be to help in the process of public education - not to set a false pretext for destroying it.
And thank you Mad for posting - I hope you will continue as you offer a valuable point of view.
From another Florida Teacher, National Board certified in science, and fed up with Pearson Tests. Testing in our local schools was delayed this month because of repeated computer glitches, further stealing time when our children could get an education instead of bubbling in test answers for the fiftieth time this year.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)because the teachers are gagged about speaking about them. I think before it's over there will be some leaking of some of the problems. And then of course teacher heads will roll. It will probably never be Pearson's fault.
Your point that tests must be valid needs to be emphasized. A secretive test which gags teachers and principals can not be considered valid.
LarryNM
(493 posts)When the System is this Corrupt it Must be done. If the Supreme Court does not recognize this as free speech - Tough.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)No testing company deserves to sell a single test that places the purchaser under a gag order.
FloriTexan
(838 posts)The fact that they cause dissent is exactly why you should not stop.
Blue Idaho
(5,049 posts)Draining millions of dollars out of locally controlled public education and into private for-profit corporations.
ancianita
(36,060 posts)In a sense, the worse students do on these tests, the more desperate families become, the more politicians promote miracle solutions, and the more money Pearson will make.
So, is Pearson Education in serious financial trouble? We can only hope so!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-singer/is-pearson-education-in-s_b_5212784.html?utm_hp_ref=education&ir=Education
Pearson cannot legally define ethics or teacher 'termination' policies for any school district in this country; it cannot imply that teachers' jobs are at risk if they say anything at all about testing. Pearson has subverted teaching and learning excellence in its aggressive overreach of teachers' classroom speech. In fact, Pearson should be taken to court in a class action suit that charges it has overstepped its authority, IF ANY, in their school districts. The climate of testing fear is one that Pearson has created, not the teachers.
progressoid
(49,991 posts)I think most people don't even understand what is going on.
We need more voices, not less Madfloridian! Don't stay quiet!
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Piasladic
(1,160 posts)Please no. I don't write much, but I always learn so much from your posts. Please keep writing and posting.
Agony
(2,605 posts)Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Don't stop, madfloridian. It's not you. DU's infiltrated with, uh, pro-management types.
I'm a liberal and I think it matters.
"The level of agitation is growing,"
A lot of people just haven't figured it out yet. The more you learn.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I get how you feel about the ugliness. I hope you just take a break and not leave.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)If I left it would give too many satisfaction.
AnotherMother4Peace
(4,246 posts)Principal Scinski has doubled down with her letter sent home to parents to "debunk" all this bad publicity - which is not helping her situation.
I think you are a great asset to DU and to public education.
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)as stated previously, DU has been infiltrated. The only way to stop them is to not give up.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Evil sock puppets.
txwhitedove
(3,928 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,942 posts)Or if the tests are much easier with the intent of making public schools look worse than what they are?
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)I went to a Catholic k-8 school in the 90s and the only tests I remember taking were the Iowa Tests which were given to us I think every even grade level.
However I think that was before the testing craze began.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Private schools/students are exempt from taking FCAT, even at the schools receiving tax dollars through vouchers. Privatizing public education is just a scam to line the pockets of the politically connected.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I understand if you need a break.
Most of the ugliness comes from just a handful.
If you leave,...they win.
Woo explains it:
The goal is not to convince anyone of anything.
It is to thoroughly hijack, pollute and therefore eliminate public spaces where real discussion and organization can occur. Occupy is disbanded with clubs and pepper spray. Dissent and organization online are disrupted with surveillance and propaganda.
It is no accident that propaganda brigades post new threads on discussion boards far out of proportion to their presence in the community, and that they nearly *always* demand the last word in any interchange.
The goal is to disrupt the important public space for liberal thought, discussion, and organization that these boards offer, and to keep the participants busy instead batting off the corporate lies and talking points.
woo me with science Sun Jul 28, 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Any thread that even hints at moving away from neoliberal policy is instantly swarmed & derailed. All the energy is taken up arguing with socks and emoticons. Thread and ideas go nowhere. Names get hurled like "far-left" and "fringe left" to dismiss anything but lockstep approval. It's such an obvious tactic that I'm surprised they continue to be successful.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)being used by Wall Street and the political class to destroy public education. At the end of this school year we will have spent 22 of 39 weeks administering standardized tests created by Pearson. It's reached the point where we spend the majority of our time testing kids on content we haven't been able to teach them because we're always testing them on it. The most vulnerable victims of this Kafkaesque nightmare are students with special needs, who keep taking and failing the same test over and over.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)I am dismayed at how much time is devoted to teaching students exactly what they need to pass these tests,
which I think are deliberately made overly broad so that they can claim students are learning about every single topic
imaginable - but there's no time to go in depth on anything. And very little freedom for the teacher to do what he/she wants.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)The only thing in league with these tests, is the 'educator effectiveness' program, bought into by our state. When I first started hearing about it, the cost for a teacher site license for "Teachscape" was $20. Now I hear it is $80. Since September. So we know someone is getting rich....
reformist2
(9,841 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)My kid learns a lot of new material during the fall, but very little during the spring because of the $&^#! testing. She has testing every frigging morning next week, and it's far from being the first or last "test day" she's had since January.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)jopacaco
(133 posts)My students have just gone through the torture of the field test. I walked around as students were testing and could only think that this was a conspiracy to make public schools look bad. The questions were extremely difficult and written in language that confused students. Tech support was useless after an hour on hold.
More and more time is being devoted to testing and preparing for testing. Social Studies is fading quickly into the background. I don't think that this is by accident.
I hold both Arne Duncan and President Obama (and any other Democrats who are going along with this) as responsible as the Bush administration. Liberals really need to pay attention before it is too late.
Please keep posting on education issues. We need voices like yours.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)the administration sides with the billionaires and the Republicans over us. there is nothing much we can do about it
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I am considered an intelligent, well-educated person....but there were too many confusing questions I could not answer. The questions could be taken several different ways, there was no one right answer that made sense. I even had 4th grade boys, big guys, shedding some tear because it didn't make sense.
It was awful. There are many others here who can post better than I can, and there won't be as many attacks on them. When I joined here from DU2 after being out almost a year, there were already 16 who had me on ignore. And I hadn't even posted.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)I think you stay on their ignore list.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)I think one of the president's goals over his last two years is to sell the entire enchilada - around a half trillion dollars is the annual public school outlay. That's the same windfall they got through the Heritage Care scam.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)You are one of DU's treasures. Someone who actually gives solid information and data.
DU has kind of sucked lately but you are one of the "good ones" I look for when I finally get on DU.
Keep the faith. You have a lot of support here. More than you know obviously.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)highly value your OPs. I hope this isn't the last.
I had an interesting conversation about reliability and validity of standardized tests with middle school students today. We didn't talk about THEIR test...that would get me called on the carpet, to say the least. I gave them an example of a test from a different state, for elementary students, and asked them to discuss whether or not the results from that test are valid. They were shocked.
They are also quite comfortable with expressing how sick of testing and test scores they've become.
CrispyQ
(36,470 posts)Of course, you could never get all of them to do that, but it would be interesting.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)More and more parents, and older students, are opting out and protesting the tests in different ways. If you can convince them, though, it needs to be a large number who go public about it. Otherwise, what will happen will be that their teacher will be evaluated as below "proficient," in whatever terms or system that district has set up.
If it's large scale and public, the teacher will still receive a below proficient evaluation, but will have something to take to the table to fight that evaluation.
CrispyQ
(36,470 posts)Join the "A" Team as a Form of
Protest Against
Testing as a Replacement for Teaching!
Joining is simple. Just select "A" for all your test answers.
As a kid, I would have done it, but I knew a lot of kids who wouldn't.
sendero
(28,552 posts).... those of us paying attention know that the malefactors are trying to blame societal problems on "education" and teachers. Folks paying attention have noticed that their solution, namely "charter schools", perform no better than public education did and often worse. But there is money to be made in privatizing education so it is full steam ahead for these lowlifes.
We appreciate what you have done to keep this issue on our minds.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Keep up the good work, my friend.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Seems to me we have been on the same page on many issues through the years.
Dorian Gray
(13,496 posts)is our district. Great school, and the principal and teachers have been on top of this in local community meetings et al. (Our 3 year old is too young to attend, and we are going Montessori next year. Primarily because of testing.)
Nanjing to Seoul
(2,088 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)leaving, retiring early. They are frustrated and disgusted, the obstacles are mounting to the point
they can't see the value in continuing what they always loved doing, teaching.
TBF
(32,062 posts)It makes me uncomfortable to support our local teabagger superintendent when he comes out against Pearson, but damn it someone has to speak up.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)An eighth grade passage and questions can be found here. Also, an interview with Daniel Pinkwater, the original author whose work was used and abused for the test.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024882449
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/talking-pineapple-question-state-exam-stumps-article-1.1064657#ixzz1sbJW0O3r
In response to revelations that the state exams had become predictable and easier to pass, the state last year awarded a new $32 million contract to testing company Pearson to overhaul the tests.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)and decided a gag order was needed. So since they have the power, they imposed one. And not a damn word from a single Democratic leader.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)I eventually turned to private schools because I was SO frustrated, but I'm still an active supporter of public schools in my area.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I often post at DKos as floridagal. For a while now the reception is different when education issues are posted.
This post is a good example. My point is that this is how it should be. Twitter is also a very supportive place for teachers who oppose the new reforms and see them for what they are.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/27/1294954/-President-Obama-Throws-Teachers-Under-The-Train?detail=email
The recommends go on and on forever. at last count 336.
My post here on the same topic, just a less colorful title....got all of 5 recs.
Posting for me is not about recommends. It is about calling attention to important issues. However it is impossible not to notice such a vast difference.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)at DU.
It is your choice to end posting on education here and understandable, but consider this, your
OP's may change enough minds that DU members may demand better. The Education group
does not get as much attention as they deserve, unfortunately.
Arnie Duncan receives too much quiet support here, imho.
snot
(10,529 posts)not to mention tragic.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)mind-boggling is a pretty good description.
greatlaurel
(2,004 posts)You do a great job keeping us informed on this. This is a really big issue and the Democratic Party had better wake up and stand with parents, kids and teachers. This is a huge issue that the villagers have decided to ignore, because all their kids go to private schools. Revolts are happening all over the US over this.
tblue37
(65,393 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Can't they release it anonymously?
It is criminal that the materials, all of them, are not government copyrighted.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I have never worked with a publisher directly, but worked for a company that published their own "in house" materials.
The state and Pearson could come to an agreement that a pool of teachers are chosen and paid to review the tests, then provide feedback. The problem is Pearson isn't using the feedback.
How can they really control that many copies of a test without one getting either leaked or copied? I mean with cell phone camera's aren't perfect, but someone with a steady hand could take enough pictures to reproduce a test if they had around 10 minutes (or 5 minutes with a scanner for that matter).
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)I understand the ugliness is unpleasant. Unfortunately, sometimes we must have ugliness.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)If I incorporate, can I impose a gag order on those with whom I disagree?
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)perdita9
(1,144 posts)My son came home with 'sample' questions from previous exams. As a college instructor, I found many of them poorly written as if the test designer only had a nodding acquaintance with certain terms (i.e. protein, enzymes, nucleic acid) and several flat out errors in others.
I contacted the head of the bio department and she admitted there was a problem but the test is a state construct. Teachers have no control.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)The information you post is essential.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)And in this case, I disagree with you.
I hope you continue to post about education here at DU. I typically read at least the OP in your threads and while I don't see things the same way you do, it gives those of us who don't agree with your position some insight into the direction the system is going.
It doesn't hurt anything for people to get a little ugly with one another - it just shows that they are passionate about the issue.
It's an issue we should be passionate about.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Yes, I think it does. There is no need for it at all.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)But if people are passionate about an issue and they disagree - it shouldn't surprise us when they are unpleasant toward one another.
Of course - it's up to you whether you continue to post education issues here. I just thought I'd weigh in and tell you that I think it should be done even if people get ugly.
They'll likely find something else to get ugly about if you stop. Some folks just get ugly - it's how they're made. I don't have anyone in particular in mind, and I haven't been in an 'education' discussion in a while, so I don't know if there is something specific that has upset you, but it's only words.
truth2power
(8,219 posts)I understand how frustrating it must be to rally Democrats against this testing mania.
This is what comes of pledging undying loyalty to any policy favored by Pres. Obama. As long as it's supported by Dems it must be ok. Or so one would think. Problem is, Arne Duncan has shown by his actions that he doesn't have a clue anything om the education field. Time for Democrats to clean up the rotten wood.
alsame
(7,784 posts)education. I rarely comment on these threads, but I assure you I read them all. You are a very valuable resource on the topic and we need you and your threads.
malthaussen
(17,200 posts)Funny, that. "The evil-doer doth fear the light."
-- Mal
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)A British company controlling US teachers.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Sounds like a completely impossible job anymore.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)First, they're the 800 lb gorilla of testing. They don't just do grade school, high school or pre-college testing, they also do all sorts of professional licensing testing. And as far as I know, they 'gag' on everything. In a sense, it's understandable - any question that gets leaked out is one they have to replace. and in the old days, that also probably meant reprinting all sorts of already made of paper tests. Probably still does in many cases, since you can't just print off tests for the entire country in a super short period of time. But people signing multi-million dollar contracts should have some recourse when dealing with what has almost become a testing monopoly.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)We who were/are teachers have seen the problems in real life. Others who think in business terms like you are doing in your post see things differently.
You are looking at the company's rights and needs. I am looking at the students' rights and needs.
That is what should come first.
The test items are apparently quite atrocious, and the teachers are being prevented from openly speaking out.
When I taught we always honored the loyalty code never to share test items we saw during testing. Things are different now. Then the testing evaluated where students were and how we could better help them. NOW the testing is used to hire and fire teachers who have no recourse.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Don't contract out testing to the private sector. If the DoE wants to require national tests, than the DoE needs to actually be in charge of creating the tests and dealing with concerns raised. Then you don't have the same 'business' concerns to deal with.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 29, 2014, 04:41 PM - Edit history (1)
energy to put up these posts. IThey have been an education fo rme.
Please do not quit.
As far as the mis-logic in telling us progressives that we are bad people for being united on an issue with regards to finding RW'ers who also support some issue, that is just what it is. It is a misapplication of logic. We often need unity. For instance: Citizens in California would be drinking water tainted with MTBE if not for the ability of those on both sides to unite and fight it being in our gasoline.
Stalwart RW'ers believe in gravity, in the sun rising in the east, and often in believe in ending loathsome pesticide spraying across the roadsides and the school yards, etc.
Often, it is only by uniting with people from the other side that we get anything accomplished (Especially given how the Democratic leadership has put in place a plague of dim witted Blue Dawgies, that are often less tolerable to me than decent old fashioned Republicans.)
In any event, I sure did not see the Democratic leadership opposed to the many RW'ers who voted for Obama in 2008, hoping that he really would be bringing the USA some hope and change.
If not for the people who are not total loyalists to either party, in 2008, Obama would not have claimed the WH without a bitter fight. Had Obama used the early months of 2009 to offer up a honorable and sensible move away from Bailouts costing trillions to us in order to benefit the Big Financial Firms, those financially-motivated RW'ers would still be in his camp.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)I taught for ten years before I finally left the industry (but not the craft) in disgust. I still teach a course at the local state college on occasion.
I share your sense that CC has problems, but it is no worse than what we have (which is deplorable), and it may improve into something better. While it is important for you to post your dismay, I've found much of your material to be one-sided, formed from biased reading and lacking in critical analysis. My mother, who is a leader in the Texas Retired Teachers Association, is also wary of CC, but she recognizes that a national curriculum is the first step to real reform.
Having a national curriculum is a key element to effective public education. Countless studies show this.
And sure, some teachers are unhappy about a change. This is a surprise?
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)You are attributing things to me I never said or thought. I won't bother to back track and repost all the stuff I have written...wouldn't do any good anyway.
What I do see is that you are trying to discredit me, a voice of opposition to the corporate hostile takeover of public education....with the help of Democrats.
Not opposed to a shared curriculum, opposed to a Bill Gates funded curriculum.
That's the usual thing here now, be sure to attack the ones who might make a difference and accuse them of bias and uninformed posting.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Lucky for me, I sharpen my bias with experience and research. Research shows that the absence of a national curriculum is one of the key contributors to our education woes.
As far as the corporate takeover of public education, that happened years and years ago. Hence many of our current problems. However, there is a profound lack of data showing that when corporations provide testing and educational materials, in and of itself, it harms students.
Where do you think those textbooks came from 100 years ago?
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)That is exactly why I won't be posting education stuff here. It's ridiculous statements like that which I am talking about. Just trying to make me sound uninformed. That is exactly what you are doing. If I respond to you point by point, you will go on to another way of making me look bad. That is what passes for discussion?
BTW the subject line is sarcasm.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Or you change mine. The thing is, if my arguments make you appear uninformed, then perhaps you should examine that.
BTW, that last sentence was not sarcasm.
You made some sweeping statements about teacher's opinions of CC, the problems with CC, and the awful ickiness of CC because a company managed to land the government contract to print and grade the tests.
The biggest weakness with these types of forums is that people post strong opinions with the apparent hope that readers will simply load on the compliments and throw in the progressive cognate of a "Praise Jeezus" at a tent revival.
Whereas other folks, such as myself, see the forums as a crucible in which one can test ideas and opinions to see if they hold up under scrutiny and attack.
I've changed my opinion on many things, because someone handed my hat back to me on a rhetorical platter. There's no shame in it, and there's no rancor.
CC will probably be no worse than any other reform that has come along. I dealt with at least three reforms while teaching, from NCLB, to Proficiency Based Learning to schoolwide IEPs to Affirmative Discipline to whatever.
Criminy, when I was teaching in Laredo, they had this idea that the best way to get the poor kids to learn was to pack up teachers into buses, drive 40 miles out to the desert colonias (sprawling cheap housing complexes for poor folks, 99.9 percent Hispanic) and stare dumbly at parents unable to speak a lick of English while I would mouth platitudes in broken Spanish (Su mojito es trabajar de casa muy mucho or something or other). This was when I was a brand new teacher and full of change-the-world confidence. Guess what? The kids that learned, learned. The kids that didn't learn, still didn't learn. But we passed them anyway.
Anyway, it sounds like you are down in the dumps, and maybe we can come at this again some other time when you have the energy.
Take care.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)It is the teachers and parents who are pushing these protests against common core and high-stakes testing. People need to listen to them.
I am retired. I am more a voice for others than for myself.
As for Common Core....it is Bill Gates' baby. He funded it, he pushed it, he got it. Arne Duncan is distancing himself from it now....which is really strange. Maybe he gets it more than we think.
I am not one for sweeping statements.
The fact that you are trying to make me sound unqualified and careless in my posts is reinforcing what I just posted. It is not worth it to post here on that topic anymore.
Teachers with years of experience and knowledge are talked down to and treated as inferior here all the time.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)If they don't get a passing grade, then they need to throw half their campaign contributions into a HeadStart program in their area, or other worthwhile educational cause.
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)Your service here is deeply appreciated.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Education Secretary Arne Duncan went to New York recently and introduced state Education Commissioner John King at a function at New York University, calling him a remarkable leader and as smart and as thoughtful as anyone working in this space. As for the growing number of critics of Kings education reforms, Duncan dismissed the movement as lots of drama, lots of noise on which the media likes to focus. He could have been referring to the tens of thousands of parents opting their children out of Common Core-aligned standardized tests, or the nearly 3,000-delegate body of the New York State United Teachers, which earlier this month overwhelming approved a resolution calling for King to resign, or anybody else who doesnt agree with him and King.
Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)All I can say is 'Thank you for all your hard work for public education, mad.'
The ugliness you've endured in response to your posts doesn't come from disagreements between post-ers who are equally informed about the issues here, it comes as a response to the threat your information poses to the agenda of super rich creeps who want the American public dopey and disinformed.
Your handle attached to any o.p. here will still make it an automatic read for me, regardless of the subject.
KG
(28,751 posts)the absence of a certain cadre from this thread is notable...