Touché.

but true...

I had no idea.

against the Rethugs and that's how he entraps the middle and left who watch...then he sez something really stupid about the President or a Democrat, and you're still nodding in the affirmative from before.

It's like a coworker who tells five honestly funny jokes and then sneaks in a terribly racist punchline while you're still in "laugh mode."

It's a very low form of manipulation!

What is the point? It's ALWAYS been that way. In the 53 years I've been able to reason, nothing has changed except the black male would have been hung straight away. Joe is an repug talking head stating the obvious.

Just amazing they can do that.

good one!

Cheers!

I may not like him but he has been on the correct side of this issue since the controversy began.

Trayvon's weight had nothing to do with it. He was stalked and murdered and that was the point.

For the cops to dummy up with the stalker being 100 lbs heavier and in possession of a gun to accept the reason as self defense is stupid.

Some conservatives will periodically take a temperate, non-partisan, "reasonable" position to innoculate them against charges that they are rabidly partisan.

On President Obama, Joe will say something nice about him 5% of the time--while slamming him 95% of the time. By now, it's only too predictable.

is that joe has guests on who are the opposite side of an argument and does make interesting viewing while drinking ones morning coffee.

To have a good political show, and get people to watch, you need conflict. They do have some good guests from the left, and they even allow Mika to stand up to Joe from time to time. But at heart, it's a business, and it will do whatever it needs to do to be profitable.

Watch Joe, though, when Liberal guests score points. He hates it, even though he needs them for the show!

choices because he would never make it alive to the prison. He would be shot "trying to get away" or "wrestling over the cop's gun" or some other contrived event meant to explain a dead body instead of a live suspect.

Last edited Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:07 PM - Edit history (1)

90 percent is a pretty big number.

Nationally, the police killed 1553 suspects of any race between 2003 and 2006. That works out to 388 per year and includes people suspected of a variety of crimes, not just murder.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/02/06/police_shootings.html

The latest data I could find on the black share of all people shot by police is from 1998 and it was 35 percent (down from almost half in 1978). I suspect that percentage is probably slightly lower now, due to the increasing Hispanic share of the population.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/deadly-force/142-dead-and-rising/critics-demand-action-on-disproportionate-shootings-of-blacks-134256373.html

According to the FBI, in 2010 there 447 instances of black on white homicide. So the total number of people, of any race and suspected of any crime, who were killed by police per year is less than 90 percent of the total number of confirmed black on white homicides. If we apply the 35 percent figure to the total number of people shot by police, that would be about 136 per year and only 30 percent of the yearly black on white murder total. And remember too, that not all of those suspects shot by police were suspected of murdering white people. There's no way to know, but I imagine many were suspects in murders of non-whites or of crimes beside homicide. My guess is that your number here is the reverse of the truth. This probably happens about 10 percent of the time or less.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl06.xls

TO A WHITE TEEN IN THE SOUTH probably wouldn't make it to the jail, 9 times out 10. READ!!!! I have Two second cousins that this happened to and they didn't kill a teen. Just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time in the deep south. Both were shot "trying to get away". Turned out that in one case, the husband was the actual murderer and the other case WAS A LIE. I have history and family expereince behind me.

Two killed teen girls, one killed a local store clerk who was known and loved in the community (she was very friendly with the cops who would frequent her store). All made it to prison with no problem. One is actually already out.

I feel for your family's loss, but your personal experience doesn't a national trend make. In my personal experience, 100 percent of such suspects make it to prison. I don't think that's the case nationally either.

Again, if you want to say 9 out of 10, you need data to support that. Even restricting it to 'people who did what Zimmerman did' it's still a weighty accusation against the police. I'm not saying you shouldn't make it, I'm saying you should back it up with hard, verifiable facts if you do.

that you don't know what the hell you talking about. Nope, I can say what I want and what the fuck I know about. HOW dare you try to tell me that I'm either lying about something that is very painful in my experience and in the experience of just about EVERY BLACK PERSON I know. I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else. The blood that is spilled is proof enough and I don't need to back anything up about the senseless murders of AMERICAN people whose real crime is having alot more melanin in their skin. What kind of psychotic and twisted "person" would lie about someone being murdered or shot in cold blood?

So, until you can TRUTHFULLY say you have experienced what too many AMERICANS have, you will NEVER have the right to tell anyone that they have to back up anything they have experienced personally and as a group for decades. It's probably one of this country's dirtiest open secrets.

Frankly I have no idea where you got that. I have no reason at all to doubt that you're being 100 percent truthful about your family's experiences.

But your family's experiences are just that. They are your family's experiences. Your original claim didn't even mention your family and that was what I responded to. You said that 9 times out of 10 black people who did what Zimmerman did would be shot by the cops and implied it would be done in a staged incident to make it appear that deadly force was justified. You have produced no data at all showing that to be the case. What you have produced is a personal story. Personal stories are important and valuable, but they cannot verify the kind of claim you made. For that you need hard evidence.

He wouldn't have had to make the choice between death penalty or life imprisonment because 9 time out of 10, he wouldn't have made it to prison. I challenge you to ask the black members if they know about situation EXACTLY like I was speaking of. Do you really expect that there would be governmental statistics on staged murders? Don't you understand why many people of color DO NOT TRUST THE POLICE?

It's not because we're criminally inclined anymore than the next person. THERE IS A DIFFERENT experience between the way we're treated in many parts of the country versus your experience. Since you seem to think that I'm being histrionic and making this up...post a question and ask us. See what happens. You might be surprised and enlightened. Dead bodies are not anecdotes. It's not my imagination, I'm not making it up to prove a point. If you think that the Scottsboro boys and event like I told you about are in the past, think again. Just last november a 68 year old black man was shot to death IN HIS OWN HOME after he accidently set off his medalert alarm and in case you think it was a simple mistake, the cops that were there were hurling slurs at him and mocking the fact he was a marine.

There was a case in San Bernardino county a few years ago where a young black girl was shot to death by a bevy of cops in her car and she WAS UNARMED and WAS NOT TRYING TO RUN THEM OVER!! She was shot a number of times. Her car was DISABLED and she was 19 BLOODY YEARS OLD!! Her name was Tyisha Miller. Then there was Amidou Diallo who was shot to death FOR NOTHING on his front porch , well maybe the reason was that he had that candy bar...YES Candy bar that the cops tried to claim was a gun. HE HAD DONE NOTHING.

Give me enough time IF I Felt like it and trust me when I say that I could find case after Case of people murdered ...JUST LAST WEEK in Pasadena, a young black guy who was suspected in a car burglary was SHOT TO DEATH by a cop FROM HIS CRUISER.. Yes, it was a DRIVE BY SHOOTING by COPS... He was not doing anything that deserved getting shot for. He was UNARMED.

If you look beneath the veneer or scratch off the nice finish, you might find a side of America that is VERY ugly and cruel. There are Americans just like you whose life is VERY different from yours. My husband has told me that although he kne what people had told him about how people of color are treated, when he married me, (He's white czech from Texas), he really saw a side of America that sickened him.

Instead you're brought in a few other cases that you say point to a larger pattern of police discrimination. I don't doubt that they do. But don't pretend as if the evidence you've presented makes that 9 out of 10 case in any way, shape, or form. It doesn't. You made a specific accusation. In order to prove that, you have to provide specific evidence. Saying that the police discriminate against African-Americans and sometimes shoot people for no good reason is not evidence that they stage murders 90 percent of the time when a certain set of circumstances are present.

is like and YOU don't. You're trying to be deliberately obtuse and don't have time to deal with people like you. I'm not going to get upset because it's not worth it.

You can say all you want how much you know and I don't. None of that proves your specific accusation against the police. It just proves that you believe that you can to make whatever claim you like without backing it up, because you 'know what your America is like.'

Maybe you do. But that doesn't prove your point. Maybe you should take a step back and examine what happened during this exchange.

You made a specific claim with no evidence. The claim was a very serious one - that police routinely sabotage the justice system by staging murders of black people who are suspected of killing white people that are younger and smaller than them.

I rebutted the claim with data that I feel works against your argument and asked you to provide data to support it.

You produced no such data, but instead a couple specific cases that did not at all prove the initial claim.

Your argument rested on your belief that this claim has to be true because you 'know your America.'

Whenever there is a large gathering, (funeral, reunion, wedding) practically every family has a similar story.

This is a very important topic and no one else on TV follows it. I have seen Joe do it several times with guests who have written about it. Jobs that were done by people are being taken over by machines. This is only the beginning. Joe seems the only pundit who goes there.

I don't agree with Joe most of the time. But I think he has a good show. Partly because his idiocy is entertaining. Most of the people that show up on the set are tolerable, except Mark Halperin. And Peggy Noonan doesn't appear very much.

--imm

would be the police shooting him down at the crime site and claiming he tried to escape.

He never would have made it out of that neighborhood alive, either the locals or the "police" would make damned sure he was dead before he got into the station. And the local Gestapo radio would sing their praises.