General Discussion

CTyankee

(63,912 posts) Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:10 PM Mar 2012

IIRC, back in early 2008 EVERY Democratic candidate running in the presidential primaries

had a health care reform plan that INCLUDED a public option! How did we end up with HCR bill under one of those Democrats without one?

Was every candidate running back then either

a) naive about political realities

b) lying to us

c) sincere but too trusting

d) other

I cannot for the life of me figure this out! I truly don't know what we were thinking back then. We had some extremely bright, sophisticated and savvy political people running. Insiders as well as outsiders. Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden were no rookies. Obama had served in the U.S. Senate.

I wanted to ask Howard Dean this when I saw him on Morning Joe today. I wish I could have been able to do so...

DU, help me understand this a little better!

Thanks.

15 replies

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Highlight:

IIRC, back in early 2008 EVERY Democratic candidate running in the presidential primaries (Original Post) CTyankee Mar 2012 OP

The dinos got hold of it in committe..between those kinds and the republicans, shraby Mar 2012 #1

There were not the votes for a public option in the Senate. TheWraith Mar 2012 #2

4 of those candidates were serving in the Senate at the time they were running, tho! CTyankee Mar 2012 #3

They all knew it, but you don't win a primary with a pragmatist platform. n/t hughee99 Mar 2012 #4

yes, I understand that. But I remember at DU back then we were all comparing the candidates' CTyankee Mar 2012 #5

I completely agree hughee99 Mar 2012 #7

And even if you DID question, you would get an icy "thank you for your 'concern'" in CTyankee Mar 2012 #8

Two words: Pab Sungenis Mar 2012 #6

yep. the unfolding of this thing was quite disheartening. CTyankee Mar 2012 #9

words which will live in infamy librechik Mar 2012 #10

I am hoping that OWS will create a new political class that will sign up to run for office against CTyankee Mar 2012 #11

a bunch of fat old billionaires are holding the pendulum back librechik Mar 2012 #12

they will die, the young will step up. CTyankee Mar 2012 #14

Max is such a right wing creep. Bluenorthwest Mar 2012 #13

Did he lead our side on? My memory is that he blocked everything right at the begiinning... CTyankee Mar 2012 #15

shraby

(21,946 posts)

1. The dinos got hold of it in committe..between those kinds and the republicans,

Reply to CTyankee (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:16 PM

Mar 2012

it was pre-determined that with a public option in it, it would never get out of committe or get a positive vote on the floor.

TheWraith

(24,331 posts)

2. There were not the votes for a public option in the Senate.

Reply to CTyankee (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:16 PM

Mar 2012

It's that simple. There weren't enough people who supported it.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)

3. 4 of those candidates were serving in the Senate at the time they were running, tho!

Reply to TheWraith (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:25 PM

Mar 2012

I can't believe that ALL four of them didn't have a clue about what kind of opposition they would face. Especially Joe Biden and Chris Dodd, two oldtimers.

But, again, maybe they did, but they were in competition for Democrats primary votes and thought they had no choice but to list it. That's a bit cynical, but perhaps it just happened that way.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)

4. They all knew it, but you don't win a primary with a pragmatist platform. n/t

Reply to CTyankee (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:29 PM

Mar 2012

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)

5. yes, I understand that. But I remember at DU back then we were all comparing the candidates'

Reply to hughee99 (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:43 PM

Mar 2012

platforms and no one was even uttering a slight bit of concern about actually getting something through. As I recall, we were mostly pretty wary of the DINOs back then.

And even on DU itself, I don't recall too much worry about the DINOs blocking stuff either. Or maybe I had my head in the sand. Maybe we were all just a bit too excited about winning that we didn't want to think any harder about it than we did...

hughee99

(16,113 posts)

7. I completely agree

Reply to CTyankee (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:26 PM

Mar 2012

the candidates all told us what we wanted to hear, and we put our blinders on, or at the very least, didn't question HOW they would deliver.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)

8. And even if you DID question, you would get an icy "thank you for your 'concern'" in

Reply to hughee99 (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:22 PM

Mar 2012

response here, from people who, IMO, should have been more open to that questioning.

But looking back I do kinda cringe at my own gullibility

Pab Sungenis

(9,612 posts)

6. Two words:

Reply to CTyankee (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:56 PM

Mar 2012

Max Baucus.

He killed the public option and any real reform in his version of the bill, and Harry Reid played "gutless wonder" by bringing that bill to the floor instead of Teddy Kennedy's.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)

9. yep. the unfolding of this thing was quite disheartening.

Reply to Pab Sungenis (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:26 PM

Mar 2012

I remember how we were all talking about the public option this and the public option that. All the time we were just heading over a cliff...

librechik

(30,674 posts)

10. words which will live in infamy

Reply to Pab Sungenis (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:35 PM

Mar 2012

I am almost as furious at Baucus as I am at Scalia, and that's saying a lot.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)

11. I am hoping that OWS will create a new political class that will sign up to run for office against

Reply to librechik (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:47 PM

Mar 2012

the Max Baucus's of the elected representatives of the people, really take them on. The pendulum has to swing back in our favor. The system is very rotten...

librechik

(30,674 posts)

12. a bunch of fat old billionaires are holding the pendulum back

Reply to CTyankee (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:53 PM

Mar 2012

out of our reach

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)

14. they will die, the young will step up.

Reply to librechik (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:00 PM

Mar 2012

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)

13. Max is such a right wing creep.

Reply to Pab Sungenis (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:00 PM

Mar 2012

He was dishonest in the process as well.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)

15. Did he lead our side on? My memory is that he blocked everything right at the begiinning...

Reply to Bluenorthwest (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:02 PM

Mar 2012

but maybe he pretended to give us some slender thread of hope. He certainly didn't voice any "problems" during the primaries when everyone was talking about the public option...

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