Again, thanks!

And the list just goes on and on and on.

They can pile it on as high as they want and what are you going to do?
I mean we have a choice between them and bat shit crazy....they can triangulate us into anything they want.

Progressives have to try to convince the Democrats to pretty please just throw us a bone once in a while.

...Big Business, the banks, the MIC, most of the Evangelical Christian churches, etc. etc. etc.

We used to have labor and academia, and parts of the entertainment industry. Not anymore.

We need to rebuild our political base and backstop if we're going to have any chance against the right. And tune out the MSM noise machine.

The problem isn't the money. It's what the politicians do.

The GOP and backers of the The Party were smart enough to take advantage of the anger and frustration that existed in the wake of the Big Crash to channel it into support for tight wing bullshit.

The Democrats had a similar opportunity but failed to (or chose not to ) do the same for truly liberal and progressive values.

I go back to my main point - the Right Wing has the $$$ and the big donors (Koch, Adelson, etc.) on their side, and they can bury a candidate - take a look at how Fiengold lost in Wisconsin. For every one ad he ran, 5 or 6 Teabag adds ran against him.

Obama turned his back because he realized the same thing that Clinton did before he was inaugurated - the $$$ is not with the progressive wing or the left - it's with Corporate America and the Banks. They own the joint, and they must be coddled to.

millions of middle of the road Americans. Often, the democratic party of today reminds me of CNN AKA Fox Lite.

The successful party for the 21st century will be the one that captures the millions and millions of Americans feeling they really have no representation. I am hopeful that will be the democratic party, but I have my doubts. Today, IMO, the democratic party follows $$$$$ and many democratic leaders are afraid to speak up and/or hold their ground.

People often respect those that speak up and/or hold their ground, but those that follow the $$$$$ for votes, not so much.

They keep piling it on, and we can't spend all of out time trying to dig out.

That is supposed to be the job of the Democrats.

It doesn't help matters when Democrats add to the piling on.

One can walk away to freedom, but that scares some people worse than staying on the plantation.

means once again.

I don't know what I've fought against more often, organic standards or fetus personhood laws in CO.

everyone here would be up in arms.

Every single person here!

If President Romeny appointed a Big Media lobbyist to head the FCC and then allowed that lobbyist to gut the Internet forvthe sake of corporate profits, DUers would be enraged.

excuse, defense, attack, or silence about it. This IS a huge issue. So we elect a Democrat. We throw Republicans out. Then we get them back into the same powerful positions they had BEFORE we threw them out. And they didn't even have to be elected, WE did all the work to get them back into power.

See Clapper, Wheeler, Gates, Brennen, Hagel and a whole slew of others not to mention the Monsanto CEOs among other Corporate Reps, back in the government we thought we threw them out of.

So, how can we prevent that from happening AGAIN assuming a Dem wins? Would Hillary be any different, AFTER she is elected? Yes, they throw some crumbs and with the other party we get nothing. But crumbs won't keep you from starving if that is all you get every day.

This should be a HUGE issue, who is funding them and who will they place in their cabinet.

Which is why I am far more interested in Congressional Races now, filling Congress with actual Dems who have a record of FIGHTING for the issues they seem to suddenly care about only during election season.

There is a group organizing now to do just that. To raise their own money to begin the process of replacing all members of Congress who are Corporate funded and whose records show who they really work for. They are picking 5 races and have a goal of 5 million dollars. Make Corporate funding poison for candidates which is the only way we can fight it.

Last edited Tue May 6, 2014, 11:31 PM - Edit history (1)

To many wolves in sheeps clothing. In the 80s the movers and shakers figured out all they had to do was run republicans as democrats and they could infiltrate our power structure. It's so perverted now that many democrats will defend these frauds till the end rather than admit a mistake. Words like Trojan Horse send them into a crazed manic tirade and don't even try to mention how 911 was allowed to happen for they want us all to agree on this nonsense to feel better and not have to look in the mirror and see how really screwed up and evil this world can be. We should just accept that the entire world had to change to benefit the military, banks, police and neoconning swine that run things all because of one day in Sept 2001. And you can bet it did change at the detriment to all of us. I'm tired of the suck up softies who rationalize it all away. The enemy is within...not external. Moderate reality all you want to personally have a small mind survive but we will regret letting the war pigs design the future.

Funny, just reading this thread, the term "Trojan Horse" came to mind, and yes, there are too many wolves in sheep's clothing.

I always liked the title "MissInformed" too. Well the right wing has put billions of dollars in dirty money towards creating the long term results that the purveyors of their think tanks want. They have thought of it all. We are at fault when we let our guard down when they install a Clinton or Obama and by the time we realize these guys are working hand in hand with the corporations and war machine and secret police it is always too late regardless of how much they talk about caring for the poor, minorities or the politically downtrodden. Just look at the drug war which both those guys ramped up and tried to push down states making reforms. There is nothing more racist and evil than the biggest prison population in the world due to nonviolent crimes. These guys are shucksters. Don't let the first woman elected president be someone who does nothing for our cause. We have been down this road. Stick up for Elizabeth Warren and let go of Clinton. If its Clinton vs Bush then most people I know will be so discouraged they will not vote. They are sick of the lesser of two evils and would rather work things out in the streets. Obama has already discouraged so many left wing friends due to his breaking every meaningful promise, neutering opposition to war and playing the fake goodcop vs badcop game with the republicans. It's made us all quite sick indeed. And the NSA shills on here are the worst by the way. Huffpost was ruined by them and all the sock puppets there.

Recommended

"I'm going to screw you so my cronies in the Corporate Media Monopoly can take over the Internet as their own "asset" and give you crappy service, overcharge you, and choose who you are able to connect with or not."

Since Citizen's United, your representatives are forced to play the game according to the current ground rules or they won't be able to raise enough money to be re-elected. You think individual representatives can slay that thousand tentacle squid ? In a word, you're dreaming pal. We need to win the 2016 Presidential race in order to reshape the Supreme Court. Only then, when the current rules of the game are changed, will any individual representative have a fighting chance in hell of making a difference. Do yourself a favor, take off your rose colored glasses and look at the big picture.

Citizen's United, so much so that you are willing to overlook the actual facts of the matter which are that money does not equal victory, the largest pile does not take the day, and the only folks who claim it does are working the other side of the aisle or are a funky combo of cynical and sappy.

Congress spends half their time at fund raisers. You folks are the naive ones. You want to put the cart before the horse. You expect an individual politician to change the system. You will be greatly disappointed. The system must change first to allow a politician to represent the people without regard to special interest. Yes there was money in the system before Citizen's United. But now Congress is paralyzed because Republicans fear a well funded primary opponent. No single politician will change that on their own.

Its the perennial excuse -- even when Democrats have been in control of WH and Congress.

(I don't care if you disagree with me. But your condescending arrogant attitude is unfounded, considering the tiny grasp of history you seem to have.)

Talking about how clueless someone else is..

You know, upthread where you posted what was basically multiple personal attacks interspersed with nonsense.

Do you honestly think spouting random silliness and proclaiming victory when people call you on it passes for debate?

Cynicism is not the answer. Elizabeth Warren knows where the bodies are buried. The one thing that can beat cynical money is idealistic voters. Read Elizabeth Warren's book and then get everyone you know, hey, everyone you see, to read it too.

We can change the Citizens United decision. We can overturn it by developing enough citizen awareness of how the game is being played that no one votes for the Citizens United ad gimmicks.

We won't be able to get 100% awareness, but we can increase the awareness enough to win.

Just read the book. It's well written -- a page-turner if you like politics (which you do by definition if you are posting on DU) -- and you won't regret it.

-Laelth

And who are you?

The Corporate Democrats have been doing this to us since the 70's.

......that he is ranked in the top 5 Wall Street donor recipients. He doesn't take that money because he's against the interests of the average American. He takes it because Senate campaign inflation is off the charts. Until we change this reality, a single politician will remain powerless in the larger scheme of things.

Obama had a compelling message and he won. The problem has been what he has done with that victory.

.....in outside PAC support.

his true progressive liberal agenda, fighting for average citizens.

You just wait and see.

He is just catering to the corporatists until he gets in for a second term.

is to F"ing win at the Midterms!

No matter how much progress we have made....it ALWAYS gets destroyed by the Midterm Elections....

THERE is your problem and WHY you don't "feel" represented!

You want more progress? Quit worrying about if it is going to be Hillary or Warren. Neither of those 2 matters one wit of difference....if WE don't have the gravitas to take back the House and keep the Senate in light of everything that HAS occurred.

Do THAT and then we have the power to beat the Koch Bros the Waltons and Sheldon Adelson...

We need progressive leadership. If Clinton is elected we will lose everything we gain in 2014. Eight years of Clinton in the WH will continue the economic erosion of the lower classes. Clinton has the inside track, so if we want to derail her we must start now.

And I dont WANT to derail Clinton or any other Democratic candidate...why would YOU?

candidate. But the big money will be with H. Clinton. I would hope that would not set well with you.

I vote for whoever wins the Democratic primary and E. Warren is not running!

If Chris Christie switched parties and won the nomination, I assume you'd vote for him.
I will agree that it's so much easier that way.

And please dont misunderstand me. I am a Democrat and I always support Democrats, but I will not support Democrats that dont follow Democratic principles. There are progressive Democrats and there are Conservative Democrats that are in the pocket of major corporations (like Goldman-Sachs). If Joe Lieberman was the nominee, I would write in a progressive Democrat before I would vote for that piece of trash.

and Chris Christie becoming a Democrat is a bullshit argument but you know that...

Actually I have a problem with that. I hope to hell you have principles. "I am a Democrat" isnt principles. Zell Miller was a Democrat, as was Joe Lieberman and Arlan Specter. I dont know about you but I do not have the same principles as they.

It's an easy question. If Christie changed parties (there are some here that get excited when politicians change parties) would you support him? Easy question. Qualify it as you wish. I would say Hell No. I hope you'd agree.

even if Christie became a Democrat....that doesn't mean he wins in the Primary does it? I and my fellow Democrats CHOOSE who runs in the Primary and that is called Democracy.

I trust my fellow Democrats...apparently you don't...

Democrats are worthy of our trust. Some are tools of the oligarchs (Goldman-Sachs). But I do see why one would be tempted to trust all Democrats. It's easier. I do not believe that H. Clinton will fight the Wall Street control of our economy. I think that's important, do you?

what do you hate about Primaries?

I vote for whomever wins our primaries....

I support progressive issues and Democratic Principles and wont support those that dont. And it looks like you are saying that you support all Democrats, irregardless of who they are or what they stand for. Just because a politician puts a D behind his/her name does not mean they support Democratic principles.

As far as hating the Primaries, I hate that the plutocratic-oligarchs control most of our politicians and I hate than many dont care.

She would run on a Democratic ticket AND would abide the primaries....

Why do you hate Elizabeth Warren?

don't you agree?

I rest my case...

Did you favor Ned Lamont over Lieberman when the Democratic Party Organization favored Lieberman?

I would still vote for Lieberman over ANY Republican into office....just saying. I AM a Democrat.

Oh and this.....is bullshit
"If Clinton is elected we will lose everything we gain in 2014."

Allowing ANY Republican to win WOULD do exactly that ^^^..

Question is Democrat.....are you going to vote for her if she wins the Primary?

Republican Party the disastrous clowns that they are, some are happy to vote for conservatives that are Democrats in name only. Your Lieberman example is a good example. You'd gladly vote for that piece of crap because you dont have a choice.

We need two viable political parties. Having one party that is insane and another party that is heavily controlled by conservatives isnt workable. That's what has gotten us where we are today. Elect Clinton and the wealth disparity will continue to grow.

aren't you?

It may open your eyes. It isn't enough to just elect more Democratic hacks.

Elizabeth Warren explains how Obama's appointments to Treasury and economic posts ruined any chance for a recovery that would benefit the middle class and Main Street America. She unravels all the wrongs. Please read it.

Just voting for the hacks, for the conservative foxes in blue coats doesn't make things better. We need a strong progressive agenda and a strong progressive slate within the Democratic Party.

My congressman is progressive, so I will be supporting him.

has said she is NOT running....

When you have read the book, you may agree with me on that.

She is a straight shooter. She is a fighter for what she believes to be right. That makes her a winner right there. I'm not giving up on this. Our country needs Elizabeth Warren. Quite frankly, we don't need Hillary. And Hillary won't get a fair chance. It is just a fact. The Republicans hate her and if she should by some fluke or because of the total disarray of the Republican Party get into office, the Republicans will make her life a living Hell. If you think Republicans are treating Obama badly, imagine what they would do to Hillary in the White House. There would be no end of it.

Elizabeth Warren should be our presidential selection. She will win, and she will change the country and return us to a better balance in many areas.

why do you insist that she does?

It isn't a matter of whether she wants to be president. It is a matter of whether, to achieve her goals, she will accept a nomination for the presidency if asked to. I want her to accept. I think a Hillary candidacy will be an enormous attraction for conflict and hostility and a big waste of time for the country. The Republicans have already started trying to destroy Hillary. She attracts more flack than any potential candidate that I can think of in my life.

Hillary had 8 years in the White House. If you think it's ugly that Monica Lewinsky is reappearing now, just wait until every decision that Bill Clinton ever made or was forced into accepting is presented full-screen every night on the TV, dissected and munched on by the many political hacks that the Kochs and their ilk employ.

Warren says it plain and simple. And it is an argument that strikes right at the Kochs, full whammy right in their fat bellies. They answer Warren's argument at the peril of revealing their huge egos and ugly self-interest.

Warren says: The game is rigged in favor of the very, very rich (excellent example, the Koch Brothers). The middle class in America is on its way to extinction, and we have to change the course that we have followed since maybe Nixon if we want to avoid what that means for our country.

Hillary cannot believably sweep the table clean and talk about changing our economic course not even ever so slightly. Hillary owes too much to too many of the people who got us into this economic mess in the first place.

If we want to win, we Democrats will run with Warren at the top of our ticket. I don't care what the polls say today. Negative campaigning, unfortunately, works very well. And a Hillary candidacy, again unfortunately, will invite it like nothing we have ever seen. If Hillary is our candidate, we are probably submitting ourselves to an exhausting, ugly campaign.

If the Republicans try the tricks they would tend to use on Hillary on Warren instead, they will come out looking like the bullies they are.

Warren makes sense for 2016. Hillary does not.

When she has so obviously said publically several times she is NOT running! Are you going to tie her up and force her to listen to Nickelback until she agrees to run?

You have to agree that's a pretty simple test. They dont want to hear that all one has to do to become a Democrat is to change parties. That's the only criteria. Apparently to them that's enough. It's not about ideologies or principles, it's solely what letter goes behind the name. And it seems they want to win so badly, they are willing to sell their souls to a corporatist to insure the win.

you have to win the primary....which WE Democrats select...its a team effort...and I trust my fellow Democrats. What do you have against the Democratic process>?

It's a badly engineered robot you're trying to engage with. Logic center seems to be missing.


I will take your suggestion and put that book on my library request reading list. Thanks..

then Carly Fiorina would be a Senator from California. Instead, Barbra Boxer won. And Meg Whitman would be governor of California. Instead, Jerry Brown won. Both Democrats were vastly outspent by their Republican opponent.

Money is a mechanism by which you can get out your message. But money can not overcome a losing message.

Additionally, there are other mechanisms to get out your message - a massive army of volunteers is quite effective. The disadvantage is you'd have to have policies that attract an army of volunteers, which is harder than just raising cash.

One of the effects of Citizen's United and similar decisions is we are starting to see the limits of money in politics. There's so much spending that they've utterly saturated advertising, and that's causing people to turn away from advertising as how they choose their candidate. Party allegiance and personal contact are having much more of an effect than they used to.

and your condescension against a LONG-TIME, respected DUer who took the time to post an eloquent OP. Second, money DOES NOT always buy elections. Prime example: Brown vs. Meg Ryan. Look it up. You absolutely and completed missed the point of the OP. Go back and tell your masters that this time, we're not playing. If they want change they damned well better come up with something other than the corporate Vichy dems that they continue to insist upon shoving down our throats. If it's President Jeb Bush then the only place to look for blame is in the mirror. "Pal."

this message board "clueless". That's a bully technique.

And changing the SCOTUS wont undo Citizens United. Congress is our only hope.

When you say "we need to win the 2016 Presidential race" I agree if you mean a progressive needs to win and not a Conserva-Dem.

I agree with the OP. We have way too many corporate-owned Democrats in office. Republicans would be worse, from the standpoint of death would come quicker. Many Republicans have changed the letter behind their name to D but havent changed their ideology.

Representation. How undemocratic of them. Makes me thing some posters are DLC shills.

....in the elections process does not make your argument any stronger. Under our current campaign finance structure, every politician is a corporate shill. It is their lifeblood. Name me the politician who is the exception if you think your position holds water ?

knife him in it. Do you have a different opinion on what you want from your elected office holders?

With money. You are expecting these politicians to take special interest money just to govern in our interest at the expense of that same special interest. That's not logical. I don't have a different opinion of what I want of elected office holders. I want the campaign finance system to change so office holders can give the people, and not special interest, their undivided attention. That won't happen through legislation. Re shaping the Supreme Court is our best bet.

[font color=white]......[/font][font size=3]Obama's Army for “CHANGE”, Jan. 21, 2009[/font]

[font color=white].....................[/font][font size=3]"Oh, What could have been."[/font]

until the next election. We need to let them know that we are always watching.

or at least try and be consistent with what they promised in the job interview.

That was the point of my OP.

I don't expect them to be perfect and accomplish everything. But we should not have to micromanage and constantly fight them to make them at least try to do the right thing.

They were left standing in the field without a Leader.
The activists were taunted and ridiculed from the White House.

I want them to the best of their ability to put laws and policies in place that will be in the best interest of this country as a whole, not just the monied interests. I do realize that occasionally what might be best in the long run for the most people might not coincide with my own personal needs and interests and that's fine. It's not just about me. it's about everybody. But it's not just about the rich 1% either. Look out for this country and strive to make it a great country for all the people.

currently what we have is a Republic-lite.

tea-ish to me. I am about to go with the Greens. But there is no doubt like you've pointed out, Progrssive have common cause and ground and if we don't stick together we'll screw ourselves in the 2014 elections by staying home. Oh, and lets put the knives down.

Regarding TPP and how hard they are fighting it.. I just wrote back, Why do we have to fight against a President we all worked so hard to get into office???

That's the point I was making, in more words

Because that President needs for the Democrats to maintain control of the Senate this fall. Because, in order to do that, those Democrats up for re-election this fall need massive amounts of money to compete and that money isn't coming from you and I. It's naive to think that you can receive that kind of money without owing special interest something in return. Special interest doesn't dole out that kind of money because they like the guy.

Money is a means to an end.

But only one.

A strong and compelling message -- and performance -- can do a lot to overcome that by directly confronting GOP lies and giving a majority of people what they would know is in their own best interest if the Democrats actually offered and pushed for that.

Yes, politicians take money from special interest but owe them nothing in return. How quaint. If only the real world operated that way....LOL

I've been hearing that shit for 30 years as the all purpose excuse for impotence or the con job used to convince us we should just lay back and continue to support the rotten side of the status quo.

In the "real world" we had to deregulate the financial industry under Clinton.

The "real world" meme is just another way of saying "business as usual."

There have been so many lost opportunities (or deliberately ignored or suppressed) opportunities that, to use another cliche, "That Dog Don't Hunt Anymore."

Right now for example, we have an opportunity to save the Internet as an open public resource. It is absolutely doable, if Obama and the Democrats take the steps to do it.

If we squander that, the same apologists and shills will be saying in the future "Well IN THE REAL WORLD if you can figure out a way to make it possible for us to reach people on the Internet without paying exorbitant fees for a website that actually runs at reasonable speed, than you can start to talk about changing the system."

"Real world" is just another tool for demoralizing people and suppressing any actual positive change.

The "real world" now insists money = speech and corporations = people. That's not acceptable.

Wall Street brought this whole country down with their greed and the American people generally responded with a collective shrug. After a couple years of wall to wall ACA coverage, Jimmy Kimmel asked people on the street which they preferred: the ACA or Obamacare ? The majority of ignorant Americans chose one of the two. How can you demoralize the populous any more than that populous has demoralized themselves with their indifference ?

People had their life savings wiped out - they gave more than a shrug. In addition, you're faulting the whole of the American public for not following poor branding based upon anecdotal evidence of the Jimmy Kimmel show? I'm going to allow the invisible hand of the free market to not buy what your selling throughout this thread.

Money does not equal speech and corporations are not people.

progressives must hold the democratic party's feet to the fire ON ELECTION DAY. They don't listen on any other day.

otoh, i'm convinced the democrats would rather lose elections than move in a progressive direction. the dems could win virtually every election if they were a genuine progressive party, especially right now, when opposition to the top financial interests is so strong. mobilizing the masses of people is not rocket science. just give them something to vote for.

I think they want to win. They just don't want to rock any rich and powerful boats to get there -- especially not after they get into office.

everyone wants to win and they will try hard up to a point. that point is when it comes to exclusively serving the interests of the majority of americans as opposed to the tiny minority of wealthy. the are still serving their masters by losing sometimes. the most we will ever get is bones and crumbs.

Call me a foolish optimist beneath my pissed off veneer, but i don't accept this shitty state if affairs as inevitable.

Money you want at an election, but we lost the house because of all the blue dog Dems. when people stop seeing the difference between the parties they either stop voting or look for alternatives, and I refuse to be taken to task for not holding my nose and voting for some asshole Dem just because he or she is a Dem. you want my vote? Start acting like a human being and work to all of our best interest or other wise you might as well just vote for the F**king GOP.