presentation. I will certainly be passing it on.

Which is a scientific driven project, in the same category with those rich vaults? Did you put on the science denial and conspiracy glasses? That is some strong prescription you got there!!!!!!

Nah, you can keep them!!!!

It absolutely is in the same discussion, as the super rich don't want the governments of the planet to tax them for anything, let alone develop anything that may work to prevent environmental collapse.

BTW: For the price of the Iraq War, the USA could've built National 100% Renewable Clean Energy Grid. But no, people of vision were cowed by the warmonger set.

The rich set. None, not at all, nada. It is actually good and very solid science. So yes, you did that, you get the condescension that comes along with that laugh worthy statement.

As to the other thing you said, that is politics on steroids and religion. Yes, religion, if you are a conservative in the US, especially one with a religious bent, it will not matter if Florida is under water and my downtown looks like Venice while my back country burns. It's not real. Climate change will still be a conspiracy. In fact, some in my back country believe it is a DC driven conspiracy to force these projects down their throat, which they do not want.

And yes, bush was cynical enough to use that and go to war to keep the oil flowing.

But you are trying to make a round peg go down a square hole...and it is as much of a conspiracy driven thinking as my back country folks who believe all this climate change talk is tree huggers (which ironically they are, they want to preserve the natural beauty of the rugged areas they live in), and democrats, to force industrial energy on them to enrich well connected utilities. And there us enough of the latter to justify the full conspiracy.

Laugh all you want, the bastards like it when you're amused.

Which is a way used to control folks, has been since at least the Bronze Age. And the " climate change is not happening and it is a liberal conspiracy" is quite close to an article of faith. But nice attempt at deflection there.

By the way you continue to conflate good science with really bad politics.

Speaking of science, I an debating the computer, or the IPad for this wonderful report. I could do the summary, only 20 pages, but methinks I will slough through the whole happy reading. Hey, I got coffee. And these things require copious amounts of it.

Got it. And got you.

With rich projects, not me. And I will call people who do that.

Fact: The rich don't want to pay taxes that could be used to prevent environmental collapse.

Fact: The rich are preparing for environmental collapse.

Fact: Those are conflated problems for democracy.

BTW: While I have not read all 133,000 of your posts, I do know I have not been condescending towards you -- even when I disagreed with what I did read.

Going back to the 1960s with communities for the very wealthy, guilty as charged.

I will point out this conflation because it does muddy waters.

You used the "Conspiracy Theorist" smear. That bothers me and I won't let it stand unanswered.

Here's a short list of conspiracies I've written about on DU:

• Coup against FDR
• Trading with the Enemy
• Bay of Pigs
• Dallas
• Chile
• Watergate
• October Surprise
• El Salvador
• Reagan Survives Hinckley and Bush
• NAZI Ethnics for Reagan-Bush
• Voodoo Economics
• INSLAW/Promis
• Haiti
• Iraq-gate / Banca Nazionale del Lavoro arms to Saddam
• BCCI International Money Laundering for Terrorists & Intelligence Community arming Dr AQ Khan
• Savings & Loan scandal in general and Silverado in particular
• Iran-contra Guns/Drugs/Martial Law
• Gulf War I Glaspie Gives Go-Ahead
• Selection 2000 Shreds US Constitution
• Tax Cuts for UltraRich
• Criminal Justice Department
• Environmental Degredation Policy
• ENRON Energy Policy
• 9-11 Criminal Negligence, at best; Treason, most likely
• Illegal Iraq Invasion
• Paperless Selection 2004
• Drowning New Orleans
• Great Bankster Bailout of 2008

Anyone want to read the articles, GOOGLE "Octafish" + the conspiracy by the bullet point above.

So, please indulge me and spare using the "Conspiracy Theorist" label on me for condescension.

And yes, you use the same kind of language my back country folks use when talking of climate change. And it is conflating the issue and it fits.

Once again, the seed vault has mada, none, NYET, lo, to do with the wealthy and it was started during the Cold War. Ironically that seed bank might help the world and crops recover after Ready Roundup seeds are finally taken off the market. Now that has all to do with the very rich and all that

Have an excellent day by the way. (Reading this report and I need to come out for air every so often), part of the job actually...

I guess pointing out to conflating is condescension, who knew? Things one learns here.

You know who actually said that? james watt. Anybody remember him? He was, astoundingly, reagan's choice for Interior Secretary. He gave some pretty compelling speeches, alright (took after "The Great Communicator" of course). "We need to open up the land (all the government-controlled land or national preserves and other wilderness areas) to ALLLLLLL The People!" "ALLLLLLLL The People!" I used to hear those speeches and damn near freak out. Whaddo you mean by "ALLLLLLL The People," pal?

What he actually meant was opening up all those precious untouched lands to the only people continuously - AND VERY PROPERLY - shut out: those poor unfortunate corporations, mining interests, oil-drillling interests, lumbering interests, the clear-cutters, strip-miners, mountain-top destroyers, and all other human stinkbugs who salivated over that virgin territory for the sake of their own unfettered plundering and pillaging and raping. And of course, with their good buddy st. ronnie in command, and his top general and their other good buddy james watt implementing his policies-from-Hell, they could count on freedom-freedom from those bothersome regulations and behavior restrictive nuisances so they could proceed with blood-thirsty impunity. He was a full sympathetic partner and supporter and wholly-owned subsidiary of big industry and every polluter in the business. And he was an evangelical, too. I remember watching him testify before Congress once, and felt my blood running cold as I watched. He made THAT VERY STATEMENT - "when the last tree is felled, JEEEEEEEZUSS will come back!" - with the same wide "innocent" big-eyed facial expression as we see today on paul ryan all the time - BIG, ROUND, INCREDULOUS "pseudo-innocent" blue eyes with a lot of white showing, all around the little round blue iris in the middle, and everything but the eyelash-batting! And he wasn't kidding, either. This was spoken completely straight-faced.

That's what he actually meant by "ALLLLLL The People". He couldn't say it flat-out. He had to couch it in all kinds of glowing verbiage that entertained and distracted. He would frequently repeat the mantra "let reagan be reagan" Made me almost literally sick to my stomach.

Amazing that it was none other than Queen Nancy herself who finally brought this bastard down. And I had no love for her, either, believe me. But he mouthed off one too many times in the wrong way - and THAT time, it got the wrong kind of attention. Anybody remember when the Beach Boys were enlisted to entertain on, I think it was, the Washington Mall on the 4th of July, and ol' james watt wouldn't approve it because he believed they'd attract "the wrong element." Unfortunately for him, Nancy reagan LIKED the Beach Boys. And she said so. And made it VERY clear in the media. And that was enough to start the development of a critical mass of protest against him. It had been building for awhile, of course, but wasn't taken seriously by anyone (including the media) because it was just us stupid "tree-huggers" who objected to him. But when he dissed the Beach Boys, The Queen was greatly displeased. And THAT was, finally, the straw that broke his back. He was soon forced to resign.

Remember Terrel Bell?



PS: I remember. I also remember war and how the nation's been at war, making war, and profiting from war my entire adult life. For some reason, those who oppose it in public get shot down. And I remember several people who've died in same wars. And it's why I stay on DU, despite the sudden go-go for war on Russia, etc. It's the "hope" for "change" thing. Works every time.

for all of the above info!!

It should be required viewing for climate change deniers. But alas, they have their science denial goggles on. I wish their ignorance did not hurt the rest of us, but they are pulling us over the cliff with them.

Maybe if peoples lives are disrupted they will start paying attention.

...I want to see more of what's going on...and what we can do about it rather than willfully ignorant fucktards denying the blindingly obvious...we get that shit everyday in the M$M...

When I go see the doctor will have to talk of depression after some really happy reading.

I kid, I kid.

a couple weeks ago during a campus open house for prospective students.

I graduated from there in the '80s and was marveling at how even though a lot had a changed on campus since then, it was still a fairly familiar place in general.

However, there was one jarring change that stood out for me: how the university is marketing itself to a new generation. When I went there, it was all about business mgt., Reaganite boosterism, and appealing to the careerist ambitions of the go-go '80s (as an English major, I was way over on the margins of that mainstream).

In its tone and its content, the marketing video they showed us a couple weeks ago at Maryland could not have been more different from that era.

The first few minutes (and a long few minutes it was) were entirely devoted to presenting a deeply unsettling view of the current state of the world: climate change was prominent among a litany of other issues like terrorism, world hunger, a broken health care system, etc.

The video didn't pull any punches, either. In fact, I was actually growing a little depressed as I watched it and reflected on how my son and nephew and their generation are facing so many daunting and dire challenges.

The video then showed how the university is providing a range of opportunities for this generation to do something meaningful about addressing these issues.

That suggests to me that the next generation is acutely aware of what a challenging time they're coming of age in and that the university is aware that many in this generation are eager to clean up the huge mess they're inheriting from my generation and others.

If the White House report is right and "it's not too late to prevent the worst of climate change," I believe it will be because this new generation will be the one to lead the way.

I just hope the rest of us will be smart enough to follow.

Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't have taken the "ignorance is bliss" path in life, however. Those who have all seem to be enjoying themselves as they play their fiddles while Rome is burning.

I expect this to lead to some really hot discussions at the office.

Mitigation includes industrial wind and solar. Yes, some projects are fraud and take more energy than they produce and it sucks if you are near one of them. We have one of those here in the neighborhood. It should have never been approved. But overall these projects will come to the back country. What needs to happen is far closer supervision of placement and placement much farther away from houses... (Infrasound and effects on humans...baby science in Europe, but enough to suggest the closest to a home should be at least five clicks, 2.5 miles).

not even on the left.

I mean if you are at a party and announce to the room "the building is on fire" but then just continue to stand around and talk at the party, then nobody is gonna believe you because you don't act like you believe it yourself.

For starters, contradicts that statement.