Its not real high above sea-level itself, though the only flooding Ive seen is well to the east of town at the Myakka River. Location of Venice is about 12 miles south of Sarasota.

Interesting facts:
Venice was founded as a planned community/development back in the 20s by the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers union, by investing union-controlled pension funds. When the Florida land boom went bust, the union pension fund was bankrupted.
Venice was the site of an Army Air Corps fighter plane training base during WW2. After the war, the base became Venice Municipal Airport. A flight-school at the airport was where several 9/11 terrorists trained.

Thanks for sharing. DUers are a great fount of information!

You're talking about where I live! I haven't seen it yet. I know where Myakka Ruver is and it flooded down near North Port about 20 Years ago. We had excessive rain then!

on S Moon Dr, next to the river, where I-75 now crosses, that used to flood regularly. I knew several people that lived there. I recall (perhaps incorrectly) that Snook Haven used to flood every few years. Thats mostly low-lying ground along the river, north and east of town. Its possible that the fill used to build up the Interstate has reduced or re-directed the flooding. My family used to own properties out there, the northern areas used to flood every summer. Interstate cut right through the middle, there hasnt been flooding in the southern parts, dont know about the northern parts as the interstate cut off our access.

where you grew up and how it all transpired.

I don't need a icon, I'm sure...

its warming, but it isn't man made
if it's man made, it's because of Dirty Fucking Hippies preventing Market Forces from fixing the problem

it doesn't matter. they'll spin this in any way they see fit, and it will work.

To the tune of "The Good Old Summertime"

There’s a time each year
That we used to hold dear
Good old summer time
When the birds drop from trees’es
And there are no breezes
Good old summer time
When you’re hard at work toiling
Your office is boiling
Your working conditions a crime
It’s all so annoying
Humidity cloying
The good old summer time


In the good old summertime, in the good old summertime
I tried to cross the street, but my poor sneakers melted trying
The E P A says, “That’s OK,” but it’s a very bad sign
When lead melts on the sidewalk in the good old summertime!

In the good old summertime, in the good old summertime
The Arctic ice is melting and Orlando swims in brine.
You scuba down to Disney World, and that’s a very bad sign
There’s been some global warming in the good old summertime!

without us "Mature Observers" ....then it's left up to the Climate Statisticians to sort out.

Age and experience revisiting where we grew up and a "keen eye" for observation would lead some of us to be more concerned than those who grew up during the change...which is a different frame of reference.

When the older observers die off then it's left up to the mathematicians who run the stats and the weather people.

It's the point of reference for many of us as to what we've observed since childhood if we are of a certain age. imho.

"On the Ground" is often anecdotal...but historically fits into the picture when researchers farther out want to see what was going on in the latter half of the 20th Century going into the 21st. And those of us born in Mid-Half of 20th Century have our Parents/Grandparents as our own historical frame of reference as to how to view the changes. Particularly those who grew up in Rural USA at that time.

Nice writing, btw.

People are fully capable of explaining events on the ground in all kinds of bogus ways.

We've seen this with economics. As Krugman has repeatedly pointed out, Maynard Keynes would have understood perfectly well what's been going on since 2008, and what to do about it. We've had the economic theory to understand this for 3 generations. But our fearless leaders have chosen to "explain" it in various ways that (mysteriously) imply that we have to throw trillions of dollars at banksters and cut benefits to poor people. Taxes continue to be cut on the rich, and nobody is investing in fixing our decaying public infrastructure.

The same is going to happen with climate change. Having it actually happen is in no way going to cause anybody to say "wow, the liberals were right all along, we sure have egg on our face and we'll reject our bogus conservative world view from now on."

Why is it so important to you that they acknowledge your superior grasp of facts?

that evidence will be insufficient to force reality on many people.

On the other hand, America's dick is now sinking, which is interesting and funny symbolically.

I thought it was because of gay marriage?

Maybe it's because of "Dirty, fucking hippies in gay marriages preventing market forces from fixing the problem?"

Oh, wait, I forgot...

"Dirty fucking hippies in gay marriages who want 'In God We Trust' taken off US currency, preventing market forces from fixing the problem."


Hey! I might have a career at FOX News!

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Sooner rather than later, methinks.

Sort of like Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket off the coast of Massachusetts. Regular ferry service to the mainland and all.....

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]And I'll bet the 0.001% down there are already figuring out ways to make a tidy profit from calamity.

Let's see, for starters: Diving tours of famous old Miami buildings... Glass-bottom boats to view the "lost city" from above....

Lots of $$$ possibilities there for the "right" people.

is washed away, and he only survives because he's rescued by a gay, female, African-American Coast Guard rescue jumper?

She couldn't be Libertarian, because a Libertarian lifeguard wouldn't rescue anyone.

-- Mal

Do not read further if freeper idiocy gives you a headache.

A few years ago, our then governor, Arnie, held a media event in which he warned about rising sea levels and its impact on California, specifically the flooding of cities like San Francisco. The freepers went all giddy at the prospect of drowning libruls. Not one of them made the realization that if SF goes, so goes Florida.

reject science.

Wyoming exports its coal and consequent pollution and is a long way from the ocean. From a short-sighted, profit-focused republican point of view you can understand why it says "To hell with climate change. We're exporting coal and making a fortune."

What's Florida's excuse? (Not that republicans need one - other than money.) The evidence of the science of climate change is covering their sidewalks and knocking down their buildings and destroying their beaches during hurricane season.

in the ability of the Invisible Hand of the Free Market to fix this and everything else.

...is by the size of the number to the left of the decimal when you add up your net worth.

Cops needing to shoot 377 bullets at 2 unarmed guys trapped inside a car wreck http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/05/06/police-shooting-frenzy-raises-concerns/

Then the streets of Miami overflowing with seawater, and now this:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/09/florida-woman-nearly-succeeds-in-having-unsavory-neighbors-home-demolished/

I don't care if it IS karma revenge for electing Rick Scott and Marco Rubio, there is definitely a string of unsavory happenings going on down there.

Hadn't heard about the shooting.

So much info at the link;

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/05/06/police-shooting-frenzy-raises-concerns/

"On December 10, more than two dozen police officers from across Miami Dade County converged on a blue Volvo that had crashed in the backyard of a townhouse on 65th Street just off 27th Avenue.

The two men inside the car survived that initial volley of gunfire, according to witnesses, who said they could see the men moving inside the Volvo. Everything went quiet for nearly two minutes before the officers opened up a second time – unleashing an unrelenting torrent of bullets that lasted almost 25 seconds. By the time it was over, the two men inside the car were dead.

“The policemen that had on the black and white vests were out there laughing like it was so funny,” said one of the neighbors, “because they got a free shot off them people. Shooting all them bullets like that, that don’t make no sense.”

"But Montesano and Valdes weren’t the only ones struck – two Miami Dade police officers were hit as well – caught in the crossfire. One officer was shot in the arm and the second was hit in the arm and grazed in the head. If the bullet had struck just a half an inch to the side the officer would have been killed."


WTF is wrong with the cops in this country?

Don't tell me that the GOP doesn't have a plan!!!

?8

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/04/hidden-ark-noahs-ark-miami-hialeah_n_2807621.html

Who is that?

It's the Lord, Noah.

Right! Where are ya? What do you want, I've been good.....

I want you to build an ark.

Right! What's an ark?

I STILL remember about half of it--most brilliant comedy album I ever heard (well, that and Peter Sellers--He's Mad, You Know).

I grew up in Philly, not far from Temple. Coz country.

If I hear part of one of those bits ... usually the rest pops right back in ...

Without realizing it, a few years after memorizing that album, I went to the same High School Coz went to.

I liked Sellers too ... but something about the story telling style of Coz is what really pulled me in.

Sellers had a wild imagination and was a brilliant mimic, so his stuff was more contrived, but brilliant nonetheless.

If I knew how to post a soundtrack, I would. "Balham" and his Indian "My Fair Lady" were as classic as "Noah" in their own way.

"We put the holes in the toothbrushes manually, in other words, once a year..."

Remember the surgery routine?

Scalpel.

Sponge.

Suction.

Oops.

OOPS?! What do you mean, oops? I know what I mean when I say oops!

LOVED it!!!

And remember "The Chicken Heart" routine?

LOVED that stuff! "Why Is There Air?" I wore my albums out.

Climate change denial requires no brains - That's the problem. (Well, that and all the money from big oil fueling the denial stories.)

There's more to come in Florida, too. Saltwater intrusion has long been a problem there, and it's going to get worse and worse. Before long, fresh water is going to become a precious, scarce commodity there.

There will be more wars and violence over fresh water in the next two centuries than there have been over land, gold, or food in the last three millennia.

Some places have plenty. Other places have little. It's been an issue for a very long time in places like New Mexico and Texas, where water rights disputes have ended in deadly battles.

Read The Milagro Beanfield War.

And in some parts of town, those lawns go on forever. There were some residents of Highland Park that were less than compliant, needless to say.

Residents have to purchase water elsewhere because their water systems are dry. In Texas, he who controls the water controls everything. Back in the 80s, quiet a few Texas cities went on land grabs under extraterritorial rights established by water laws. San Antonio and Port Arthur. Port Arthur went after ET rights over the Superior Oil company's property in the Gulf of Mexico. It shut down Griffing Park, Lakeview, and Pear Ridge water access. I believe it was done primarily to dilute the African American vote in Port Arthur. PA was under the power and influence of the huge oil refineries.

point to the lack of hurricanes as proof that global warming is a hoax. Of course uncommonly heavy rains in Central America and the US west coast will be poo pooed as normal weather patterns, or God's vengeance for their homosexual lifestyle.

This has been worrying me for some time now.
I believe we will have to relocate our business sooner rather than later.

The whole island chain is only a few meters above sea level at its highest point.

My wife and I have been planning (vaguely) to go down there before it ceases to exist. I'm not sure we'll find the time before it's gone altogether.

I just want to get somewhere that won't be affected by the rising seas.
Our business, however has to be in proximity to the ocean, because we're a marine diesel repair shop.
So it will be tough finding a place where we can set up shop without intruding into another shops territory.

But if this continues, you'll be able to buy some land in West Virginia cheap and wait about 4 years for it to be Atlantic coastline.

Well, okay, maybe longer than that, but it's where this is heading. My family and I return to the States every year for a vacation on Cape Cod, Massachusetts, and we've seen the coastline eating up into the beaches for a decade now. (Formerly) expensive beachfront houses with exposed foundations, even the Truro Lighthouse had to be moved inland to prevent it from falling into the sea--not a cheap undertaking.

To escape rising seas, you'll have to look for a rocky coast--Maine or Hawaii, maybe. Flat, sandy beaches will be slowly eaten up like ice cubes melting on a Manhattan sidewalk in summer.

Just set up shop in a place that isn't near the ocean....yet.

It looks like a beautiful place.

Namely at the center of the crater of Mt. Kilauea on the Big Island of Hawai'i.

If the molten lava doesn't get them, they should feel right at home in the middle of all those sulfur fumes....

. . . as we ask them, What was that steer manure you guys were pushing about climate science being a hoax?

Otherwise, for those who have read Frankenstein, I might suggest a demise for them inspired by that classic: namely, that they be set adrift on an ice floe in the Arctic Ocean. Then we'll let that global warming on which they have spent a small fortune trying to persuade the people and their representatives isn't happening do the rest.

In addition to the regional plan, Monroe County aims to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 20 percent below 2005 levels by 2020 and to incorporate future sea level rise projections into infrastructure planning.

"We clearly have the most to lose. If sea-level rise is not curtailed by immediate reductions in greenhouse gases, the Florida Keys may eventually become unlivable," according to a March draft of the county's plans. "Planning decisions should take into consideration medium to extreme sea level rise predictions."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/florida-keys-prepare-sea-level-rise

The part of the country where it's either cooler or unchanged seems to correspond with the place I imagine most of the climate change deniers live, i.e. the South.

(it looks like the graphic is cut off at the bottom - the chart ranges from -0.5 cooler to +2 warmer average temperature changes)

We have tornado alley, and are experiencing a rash of unheard-of earthquakes due to fracking. We are not immune to man-made "natural" disasters--but we are used to hot summers, and it's difficult to explain to deliberately ignorant people why it makes a difference if the average temperature one summer is 5° higher than it was ten years ago. Where we are, hot is hot, and air conditioning is as basic a living necessity as clothing.

It's like trying to tell a Russian that it's a bad winter with temperatures 5° colder than last year. When it's 20° below zero, who's impressed if you tell them it'll be 25° below tomorrow?

I'm dead in the middle of the biggest blue zone, and it's plenty noticeable.

The winters are colder and wetter while the summers are hotter and drier, but the average hasn't really moved much. People that actually have farms or fields are mostly on board with climate change because "Everything I plant dies now." is pretty difficult to ignore.

That should distract people from the real news with a fake crisis

BENGHAZI

BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI LEWINSKY BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI

So THERE!!

if I find it I will try to post in the thread.

I also know that Charleston, SC....(where I think you visited recently) has had growing flooding problems and they are doing what Miami is doing with pumping stations but also re-building their underground (post Civil War) tunnels to facilitate the pumping. In both Miami and Charleston's situations maybe building Dykes like Netherlands would be an answer in the temporary. The Real Estate Interests will have to support it. But eventually even those measures might not be enough.

Thanks for this post... I kicked it but didn't reply...but seeing the RT Report which was so good I thought I'd pass it along.

Koko (known here on DU as the RT Supporting Putinista) 's ....but, hey I get information wherever I can and this was certainly a very nice report from the Russian Pravda Media (as some would like to call it).

Then..there's CNN and BBC and etc....

In the Netherlands, the Rijkswaterstaat has an importance greater than their Defense Department, and with good reason. If half the country goes underwater, there will be no country left to defend. But this is a structure that was introduced centuries ago and improved upon ever since.

To start from scratch would be a giant undertaking that much of the rest of the country will probably be unwilling to pay for (check Republican reaction to Sandy), and maybe too late anyway. If South Carolina sends Senators to Washington that deny that the seas are rising, then how can there be a problem, right? What can the mayor of Charleston do if he sees his city is sinking in front of him and his State's two Senators say "no, it isn't"?

I don't get RT (in any language) in my part of Germany, so I can't pass judgment on how they report this (or anything else). But ARD and ZDF do a credible job, and one of our best friends was WDR news station chief in Russia for five years, speaks better Russian than I do by now, has a Russian girlfriend and goes back there several times a year. We do get enough first-hand reports out of there, so I'm not a Putinista (different strokes for different folks).

So, Я желаю тебе всего хорошего!!

some of those rich repuglican gasbags will start thinking, and trying to do something. I don't know about now, but back in the early to mid 80's, you had to be worth $5 million (at least), know someone who already lived there or have a sponsor, then be voted in by the little homeowners association there before you could even buy a place there. Boat slips started at $180,000! People drove golf carts that looked like miniature Rolls Royces, Corvettes, Jaguars, Benzes etc.

Let's not forget Golden Beach, Star Island, Hibiscus Island and the Florida Keys, either.

It's time to start doing what I've been advocating for years: build Desalination Plants along the coastlines around the Country, then start pumping the excess water into the rest of the States, especially into the drought stricken areas, building reservoirs if needed and water tanks.

This will kill several birds with one stone. It will deal with rising sea levels, create jobs, help rebuild the infrastructure and help with the economy. We could even put it in the contracts that the materials come from companies based in the U.S., which would help open up some of the closed down steel mills (for one example).

Just my 2 cents worth....

Peace,

Ghost

As long ago as 2006, I got to raise this exact issue with Bill Clinton in person when he was looking for projects for his CGI. He told me they were already looking into locations for desalinization plants in the Middle East to ease what they foresaw as armed conflicts over water in the future. He may not have thought about them for the USA due to being way too optimistic that we, as a nation, knowing full well of our vulnerability to global warming and the emptying of our aquifers, had the ability to start doing something about it before it was too late.

As you saw, being able to do something useful doesn't mean we will. Al Gore said that if we built a 100 mile square solar grid out in the desert somewhere, we could supply just about 100% of the country's electricity needs. Instead, six years into the Obama presidency, we get solar panels on the White House, and that was Jimmy Carter's idea.

As for rich Republicans who had $5 million in 1985, they or their heirs can probably afford a second home in Palm Springs, just in case.

sending a letter to President Obama or Al Gore or something. I'm glad someone is on the same page with me though! I posted an OP about building the plants a few years ago and got pretty much slammed and ridiculed.

Peace!

Ghost

Our conversation was in the context of averting water wars in Gaza. I don't think either of us was thinking about the necessity of of building desalinization plants in North America at the time, but it's not a subject he was unaware of. Of course, he's not in office, which has its pluses and minuses. He is not beholden to Republican congressional blocking, but would have to raise a LOT of private capital for the project in North America. On the other hand, if anyone can, he can, and he obviously IS aware of the plants as a future necessity.

A year before this, several of us were talking to him about the efficiency of use of funds for charitable projects abroad. He said that while he was in office overseeing charitable US government projects, costs ate up 25% of the budget. He said that his organizations now had managed to carry on the same kinds of projects using only 4% of allocated funds for expenses. Someone asked him why that hadn't been done by the government. He answered, without hesitation, "Because we were stupid, that's why!"

I don't recall seeing your OP about desalinization plants, but I am confident I never slammed ANYBODY for bringing THAT subject up. I only joined DU around 2005, so it was soon after that that I had chatted with WJC about desalinization for fresh water.

If you're looking to send a letter to anyone, I'd consider sending one directly to Clinton c/o his foundation or the CGI. I don't know what Al Gore is up to these days, haven't seen him since the 2008 campaign. Obama MIGHT be receptive to suggestions, but he's got a hostile Congress to deal with (maybe less so if Miami and Charleston sustain serious damage). I do know a guy in the White House I can pass suggestions on to, but the likelihood of a new grand initiative--even one so vital as fresh water--is probably small at this point.

*on edit: Clinton is ALWAYS open to suggestions. One time, an eye doctor suggested that instead of patients tossing away their old prescription glasses, that eye doctors collect them, send them off to places like India en masse, and let penniless people take whatever came close to letting them see better. The prescriptions wouldn't match, of course, but it would let a few hundred thousand people have better vision than they would have with no help at all. They collected and sent to India 800,000 pairs of used glasses that way! So even off-hand suggestions do get taken seriously there.

We will be left with the bill, again

Go Generals!!

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/fbi-investigates-fema-flood-map-changes-after-nbc-news-report-n62906