im sorry

I think that about covers it...

Your comment is as well thought out in this instance as I would imagine they often are.

I think it was a "great catch"

Open minds abound.....

You can see for yourself..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=313700

Certainly you are referring to this outrage:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4808818

or others like them.



Learning a lot about prejudice and bigotry today.

never posted to a gun forum.

I apologize for being white. I have created every problem the world has ever seen. I do not deserve to be a liberal because I have not suffered enough.

Might want to work on that a bit.

Because you say so?

You're doing this "forgive me for being white" horse shit I could easily expect from Pat Buchanan or Rush Limbaugh. You are casting yourself as a victim of oppression because you are white. It's hyperbolic nonsense directed at straw men with the intent of deflecting from the topic of societal privilege, and it is typical of the right-wing response to the subject every time it is brought up.

Like I said. You might want to work on that.

2) Who told you that you have created every problem the world has ever seen?
3) Why do you feel you haven't suffered enough?

These are very interesting points you are bringing up about your self thought that truly have nothing to do with the op or the person you responded to. Very strange.

ground glass.

The little pieces are too small.

"Your comment is as well thought out in this instance as I would imagine they often are..."

As was your original comment, too?

It's what's for dinner.

You are pro-choice when it comes to owning guns? Sinner! Only the wealthy and people and power should have such rights! Not you puny humans who are merely citizens.

"Well, heck, Seymour I dun heard about less than wun purcent of them gun owner fellers hurt some people wid their guns. Just like them folks on welfare use their money for drugs, and them mooslims over in islam country is all terrarists. We gots to do us something bout that, yes sir we sure do."

Hey look, someone chose something different than me - and because some who made that choice do something bad it means you are bad and all your arguments are too!

Gotta keep an eye for wrong thinking.

views on another.

And guess what? I was right!

Instead of focusing on the core issues/beliefs someone holds.

Like the RW saying "well I would except Muslims to say things like Osama Bin Laden would"

Funny how that works and is condemned as a tactic when the right uses it but is hugged like a teddy bear when others do.

the existence of the federal government, it's not all that surprising to hear his views on "the negro".

BTW, I have no idea what "So views on issues become calling names or refering to one person" means. At all.

Ted Nugent?

Certainly you know what a Paladin is, right?

You poor oppressed thing.

struggling to support their families, hear everyday.

There is only green priviledge. We were so much stronger when we realized that there was a 1% and everyone else, but intead some are eager to tear us apart.

we were so much strong when we all were fighting for things that would benefit me; but instead/now, some seem eager to assert their own interests that do not benefit me.

As a matter of fact, the premise of this thread is that, although I am, poor as dirt, and struggling to make it, I am the recipient of pools and pools of priviledge.

Because two struggling people, with the same skin color that I have, got randy at a halloween party during the Johnson administration, I swas born this color, smack into a mountain of entitlement and an ocean of privliledge.

Well if the"White people of priviledge League" is having a meeting soon, I wish they'd tell me where it is, so I can pick up my membership card, because they're coming to cut off the power on the 15th. Certainly my membership card will keep the lights on!!!!

That your privilege does not mean you will succeed or you won't struggle; your privilege just means you don't face the added burden of your race on top of life's twists and turns, before it sinks in?

I don't claim to understand what you face, don't tell me that you know what I face.

Anything about what you have experienced. I am saying that what you have experienced has not been made more challenging because of institutional racism.

Understand?

But do you?
Can't put it more simply than that.

you should do a bit of reading because your post is slightly ridiculous. It's clear you don't understand the term at all.

but the OP asked about liberals.

I don't know if you're kidding or not. The answer is "no, not all of them."

there are other ways to approach the question

Because I know lots of racists of all colors. My ex wife was Asian and I did not learn what a racist she was till after we were married, my old boss was Arab and a racist as well.

bigotry is what you are describing...2 different things...

My ex's parents owned an apartment complex, they had power over people. Anyone can have power over someone else when you have something someone else needs.

No everyone doesn't have power over everyone else.

I am neither a boss nor a landlord I have no power over anyone but myself....so I am not a racist. So your theory is full of holes...

Let me guess....you are a White male?

Someone said only whites have power thus they are the only racists. I am Jew and a male and I have seen racists of every color.

sorry....

there is a difference between racism and bigotry....

YOUR theory is not supported by the body of 21st century research and thought. While the pre-1970s understanding of racism had it where racism was based on individual conduct, that could apply to any race or peoples; the academic understanding of the topic has evolved (as science is wont to do) to indicate that racial animus without institutional/systemic power is termed Bigotry; whereas, racial animus with, or in support of, institutional/systemic power is termed racism.

Welcome to the 21st century.

I wish I were more erudite and less of a "verbal brawler".....but it's just my way....I don't like to suffer foolishness...(I am a big Randi Rhodes fan by the way)

Last edited Sat May 10, 2014, 12:53 PM - Edit history (1)

not be confused with institutional racism. You can understand how institutional racism has much larger impacts on huge segments of our society, right? That is the first step in understanding why the terminology needed to be, and has been clarified for people who write and study these issues. Hope that helps.

After all, Louis Farrakhan, for example, may not have INSTITUTIONAL power backing him(at least not directly, though I have long viewed him as a useful idiot for TPTB, for sure), but he has more than enough hate in him to qualify for the racist label, in terms of *personal* relations. There certainly IS a difference between the two types(albeit the fact they do often intersect, to be fair).....

terminology evolved. So people who study and quantify these problems can communicate more clearly about them. This is standard usage of english these days among the educated. Let's try not to dumb things down like republicans do.

Sorry they didn't poll you all to find out what term would be acceptable, but I don't think any would with those who wrongly believe it is about guilt or beating themselves up. They do not want their "more fortunate situation* " acknowledged or discussed at all.

* privilege

denying privilege doesn't mean you don't enjoy it...

....missing the point. Or, rather illustrtating the point!

I think the idea is to define racism so we don't have to examine our own lives. If it's a societal thing that gives us privilege, then it involves us whether we try or not, or like it or not. If it's just mean people, then we can exclude ourselves.

pretend that this is better terminology, all you have managed to do is show everyone you want to be no part of the discussion.

bigotry doesn't require the ability to do anything TO the other people in question...racism DOES...

You can be a bigot because you don't like that a mixed couple moved in next door....racism is not renting to that couple BECAUSE they are mixed.

i put up both definitions...

emphasize racism in the white community and down play the racism that exists in minority communities

or local government? It's all the same to you maybe since it's not your problem.

nope, there are two different levels where bigotry effects people- but because you do not suffer under institutional racism yourself, you might not have understood why it is needed to make distinctions.

...et they are all considered racist

It's not personal, but based on statistical probabilities. And no one is calling anyone a racist. What they are saying is many want to ignore or deny racism by denying their relative privilege. Guess what? It's not all about you. Imagine that!

you've hit on something there. I've noticed the shift as well and it does seem to be being used as a way to attribute racism only to white people. Slick. Dishonest, but slick.

of terms to fit your narrative is dishonest. Sociology is a major player of the game, although by no means the only player.

Its not my fault so many ... people try so hard to ignore it.

social psychology (a 2nd yr sociology course - both are electives for me as I'm in my 4th yr) this term. You are correct. Love how people pretend that doesn't exist. Perhaps they are anti-intellectuals...and we're just liberal elitists.

101...they lived it

although the second definition would be the closest to what they are trying to imply.

I think bigotry is some thing that almost everyone has, especially here on this site regarding certain groups such as the teaparty, republicans, or wall street.

Bigotry is not okay, and IS "just not liking someone for their color" and not quite nearly the serious political issue that racism- institutional racism that effects every aspects of POCs lives- is in America.

You are welcome, now you can speak to these issues with more clarity and not bundle these things together like an uneducated, self serving oaf. I know you would not want that.

I think it is the quite opposite really...

Whites trying to compensate for their own true feelings...

"well everyone is a racist"


right?

detailing the difference between bigotry and racism....then you would know what you just said is false.

Denying there is a difference doesn't mean there isn't..

By the way..Protip....you don't have to be a racist to be a bigot. It doesn't have to have anything to do with race. If you just hate Gays you are a bigot not a racist.

I also provided dictionary definitions....

What have you to back up your claims besides

"but but but....Black people are racist too" malarkey?

You are leaving out racial dominance in your definitions, as well as centuries of history, racist laws leading to institutional racism which maintaining white hegemony and power.

Again for your edification...

bigot:
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

rac·ism

1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

***note the words I bolded****

And while she isnt racist, it runs rampant in the community.

Aside from preventing those giving these privileges from doing it?

realized their privilege

and denial is not a river in Egypt.

ought to question whether we want to associate with white liberals who live in denial

Or is this a zero sum game and a White male loses if a person of color and or female gains?

Privilege does not exist when everyone is treated the same. It's a transmission problem, not the receiver.

Even as they acknowledge that white supremacy is a systematic problem, from which they accrue benefit.

racism is an act of power

a non white person in American can be a BIGOT, but cant be a racist

i knew this is what would happen...go ahead, avoid the real issue and pretend you dont understand what the word racist means

Jesus christ, no, in a country where whites are NOT the majority or dont control the system, in those places non whites can be the racists

and hates white people, they are racist. And then they move to the US and still hate white people, they are no longer racist?

you are talking about bigotry, i hate skinny people because they make me uncomfortable

that makes me a bigot, i hate Gay people cuz they are icky, this makes me a bigot, i hate white people in a country where they have all the power, this makes me a bigot

i hate Black people in a country where I have all the power and I use my hate to disenfranchise them and lower them on the economic scale, that is RACISM

like for example a landlord...what you mean is bigotry

Because it contradicts every dictionary that I've ever read.

Not trying to be difficult, just curious.

It's prejudice when Mr. Smith feels unhappy when Mr. Johnson moves in next door because he doesn't like Mr. Johnson's skin color or ethnic identity.

It's bigotry when Mr. Smith refuses to invite Mr. Johnson into his home or offer him friendly waves of greeting.

It's racism when Mr. Smith uses threats and intimidation to attempt to drive Mr. Johnson and his family out of the neighborhood.

He's confusing racism, which anyone can have regardless of skin color with institutional racism, which come from a position of power. Racism is a subset of bigotry: all racists are bigots but not all bigots are racists.

Edit to add :

confusing might be the wrong word, perhaps changing or redefining is a better choice.

it comes with action....you are giving too much weight to the words institutional and power

if you don't rent your apartment to "those people"...THAT is racism. But your overall difference between them is true...

i shouldnt be surprised

and he hated white people and refused to rent to them, that would be racism, right?

Conversely, if I have no power over anyone, but I'm just of the opinion that blacks are inferior and I detest them, I'm not a racist.

Do I have your argument down now?

This is a VERY tired old (and defeated) argument...

"but but but....Black people are racist tooo!"