I bet you're one of those lucky people who seem to encounter RWers in the check out lines at super markets and department stores... and never fail to call them out.

I'll be looking for your next super market story.

I happen to agree with the other poster on this. I live amidst obnoxious right wingers in real life, in a small Bible Belt town down south, as an out lesbian, no less. I pretty much HAVE to say something to them about their horrid views because THEY confront ME on a regular basis. The last thing I want to do is deal with their asses on the internet too, if I can avoid them.

And DU is CERTAINLY no echo chamber.

threads that the topic of Discussionist brings out a weird belligerence. They seem to be itching for a fight over it. It seems to be the reaction of a few of the people who are using it toward people who don't.

I've been told that I'm being "holier than thou" and "acting superior" because I don't care to engage in conversations over there. It seems like they're taking it personally, like we've somehow rejected them, rather than simply preferring not to use the site.

There also seems to be a lot of dramatic talk here about how DU has been stifling people's freedom of speech. Which is kind of funny, but it takes all kinds, I guess.

I think it's about monetizing page clicks in the run up to what is bound to be a hotly contested election.

It does a lot of things:

--It provides ad revenues to the site owners, who do not live on love and pale moonlight.

--It provides a safety valve for DU; a place for trolls, disruptors, and general a-holes to congregate when they're caught out and tossed over the side.

--It offers a place for people of all persuasions to have a good old, knock-down, drag out ideological fight. Fight them over there, so we don't have to fight them over HERE.

There is no downside. If anything, it'll make DU more pleasant, because the trolls will have somewhere to go, and the dissimulators won't have to pretend to be fake liberals anymore.

Damn, you're good!

because of those types you describe that were coming here and trolling so much.

We can hope, anyway.

For anyone unclear on Warren's avatar, it has to do with this:

It frightens me that there are people that would seek out the chance to scream at strangers on the Internet that they will never meet and see that as a good use of their time.

We've got work to do in the next 2 cycles!

I hope that the new place gives the people who need, errr, stimulation the stimulation they need!

more civil. Same arguments over Conservative policies. But for people who were being cautious about expressing their opinions out of fear, here, it is a much better environment. Crushing speech leads to people fleeing, which is what was happening here. People were going elsewhere. No Democrat is going to stick around anywhere they feel that ISSUES are no longer important. The admins were smart to provide a better environment for discussion. Otherwise most Dems here who have not changed their opinions on the issues over the past five years, were either gone or ready to go.

Although jerks from both sides seemed to have joined forces today to let more of the name-calling stay.

But - yeah - voicing much other than the party line du jour (even when the party line is diametrically opposed to what it was under Bush) typically leads to a pile on here. That's pretty sad, as far as I'm concerned.

I've seen a few instances of "uncivil" conduct over there (mainly of the personal insult variety), and a heaping dose of guns-guns-guns, so I think I'll keep it light in my visits--I am not really interested in doing that down-in-the-dirt back-and-forth.

I'll support the site to the point where it gets some critical mass under it; I really DO want it to succeed, for the reasons I've iterated upthread. I want the admins to be able to earn a fine living doing this website thing (hell, I benefit from it, so of course I hold that view) and I want DU to be a pleasant place as well.

This new location looks like it solves a lot of problems and creates a lot of benefit all around, which is why I am so supportive.

Which is why Democrats were fleeing this site. Too many here trying to control people, which when it comes to Democrats, is impossible. The country has many serious problems and there is a trend now towards leaving uber partisanship behind as it has so distracted from the real issues. So many good Dems have moved on from DU to other venues. So I think it was very wise of the Admins to see the trend away from the restrictive atmosphere here towards what is turning out to be the future of politics. DU iow, was becoming obsolete thanks to those who spend their time slamming anyone who actually cares about ISSUES.

There are far too many NEW arenas where people can actually freely discuss issues. It's not 2003 anymore. Things have become far too serious for millions of people and voters on all sides of the spectrum are super disappointed with the way things are going.

The world is moving on and people are putting their country before anything else, even to the point where many groups have formed where people across the political spectrum are joining forces to try to redirect the country from the policies of the past 20 years or so. Conservatives especially, not the right wing troll types, are realizing how damaging Bush/Cheney/Reagan policies have been. And are joining Dems who have NOT wavered from their positions as some have, to try to save this country from those policies, many times supported by both parties. Iow, the PEOPLE are no longer going to fall for the 'divide and conquer' routine we all were involved in for so long, to the detriment of this country.

I prefer the vibe at DU. You apparently aren't seeing what I'm seeing, and that's fine.

I think the quality of discourse is more than a bit better at this end of the playing field.

But if the other place works for you, more power to you.

of this country is now in the hands of the young. The older generation have left them a sad legacy and they are far more informed due to growing up with access to more information, than their parents. My hope for this country lies with the young. They are informed, engaged and not hampered by old history. They are the hope of the future and don't seem to be particularly attached to the old uber partisan ideology, especially when to them, no one is fighting for their interests.

The times are changing. The Discussionist is a sign of the times!

The "old people suck" lecture was kind of fun, too.

The future of the country--never mind that, the world-- is always with the young, I'd say, unless we find a way to reverse time. It's been that way since the dawn of mankind.

I really do hope you enjoy yourself at the new site and spend lots of time there.

Google Stats for DU were way down.

site over the last week or so--something with the provider, for the most part. You can see some of the gripes in ATA.

I had trouble up in the Northeast for a few days, too--and I was travelling; it was a bit glitchy in two distinct states using different service providers.

I don't think that's a good source, either. Certainly not the full picture or anything close to it.

Not to mention that Skinner said the stats this week were pretty much the same as the prior week (despite connection problems).

I'll bet most of us here do NOT have said toolbar...so we're not being counted!

But if you look at rankings, it does give an indication as to whether it is getting relatively more popular or less popular. It isn't as good as a random sample - but the principles are similar.

"People with Alexa toolbars."

I've been asking around.

I don't know ANYONE who a) Has an Alexa toolbar or b) Knows what an Alexa toolbar IS, or what it DOES.

I think way more people do not have an Alexa toolbar than have one.

unless you believe DU members recently changed their habits regarding the Alexa toolbar in relation to users of every other site. DU has been trending down in position for a while. Absolute numbers might drop off if fewer people are installing the Alexa toolbar, but they should drop off for every site - so a downward trend relative to other sites suggests to me to indicate the decrease is real.

If a year ago DU was ranked #100 and had 5,000 hits a day, the fact that it is now #180 and has 3000 hits a day (just pulling numbers out of the air) tells us about trends in a way similar to random sampling.

It is falling relative to other sites measured by the same standard (dropping from 100 to 180), and the number of hits is down. It isn't an absolute scale- but absent some indication that DU visitors changed their Alexa installation habits (or uninstalled) at a significantly different rate than viewers of other sites, it is an indication that DU traffic is down - and the site is, relatively, less popular.

In other words - the Alexa user installation base may well have changed which could easily change the number of views. But the rankings would stay the same unless DU viewers behaved dramatically differently as to their interaction with the Alexa toolbar.

to give accurate information about movement in enrollment numbers.

But whatever.

DU tends to get more active around Presidential elections and then it peters off around midterms.

Democrats will never support right wing policies. I don't know who thought that was even possible. It isn't. To recruit actual Dems would require actual Dems doing the recruiting.

1) There are a lot of words I would use to describe Discussionist right now. Civil is not among them.

2) There are rules on DU for what can and can't be discussed because the creators designed it for a purpose. You agreed to these terms when you signed up, and nobody is holding a gun to your head to keep you here. If you find these rules too constricting, you're free to go elsewhere at anytime.

And from what I've seen, DU is remarkably tolerant of different points of view, so long as posters ultimately support Democrats. There are forums for conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, RKBA, religion, and Israel/Palestine.

Speech is not being "crushed" here. You're still able to post. You're not free from other people's opinions though. If you define speech being "crushed" by people disagreeing with you, then you may be in the wrong place.

3) If Discussionist is the place for you, knock yourself out. I can't stand what it's quickly becoming, which is just another place for RW trolls to spew their bullshit.

members here of what is required of them,

I have no intention of leaving DU just fyi. So I don't understand your 'advice' as I did not and would not be asking for it.

I have been a member here for ten years so I hardly need YOU to instruct me of the rules here, seeing as how after so long, I am STILL HERE and intend to continue being here.

Sorry but you'll have to accept the fact that many DUers will be active here and on the Discussionist. I will do as I have always done here for ten years. I will support Democratic Policies, both here and anywhere else I post.

If that is a problem for you, there is an ignore feature, along with a 'thrash thread' feature so you never have to worry about Democrats like me who will NOT compromise on issues that affect a majority of the people in this country.

In other words, you haven't been banned, despite you claiming your speech being "crushed."

I don't need to have seniority to know how discussion boards work. If you can't accept that people are going to have disagreements with some things you post here, then that's just rough, and frankly it's symptomatic of a "with us or against us" mindset.

The rest of your post is a series of strawmen. I've made no demands or even have suggested I favor you leaving DU. Other people can be strong advocates for progressive policy and still take umbrage with things you post; you are not its sole paragon. Furthermore, for all the complaints about crushing speech, you seem particularly eager to shut out disagreement.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Nothing in that self-pitying post about THIS part of my comments:

Such a right-winger.

I would also add that it might be good way for DUers who often fight with each other, to team up on subjects where they have common ground while eviscerating logic impaired right-wingers.

You've got people posting here, and there, and people coming from other sites to post over there and "get their fight on" with people--which they used to do HERE, and flame out/create sock/flame out over and over again--without having to hide their attitudes and viewpoints.

They can be honest about their attitudes, instead of sneaking in here under false pretences, laying low, posting K and Rs in cooking and baking and other low-stress groups until they hit that magic hundred, and then going off on people until they get their five and the admins have to get involved.

More people are posting under the DU LLC banner(s), there's less incentive to troll (but those who do will stick out in time), and good discussions can be had in both places.

"I bulee y'got potential."

I wonder if they can keep new people signing up.

(yeah I know some overlap there,) but I live in a red area and I already deal with a lot of repuke stuff. I also have good friends and neighbors with differing political views than me and we get along fine. There are assholes in all groups.

I do see one banned DUer who I really miss and I will read that person as long as they stick around. I have always liked that person.

Other than that I am just checking it out when I have a little time. (Sorry to be AWOL from MIRT too - I have also been busy in real life )

their views on issues since back in the Bush years? Too many Dems were leaving DU just because of that. Or they were getting frustrated to see the changes in views on what used to be solid Dem positions here and got themselves banned. Now the admins have provided a better forum where people can actually discuss ISSUES rather than people. I am glad they did, so far the forum seems a lot more civil to me than DU had become.

Go have some good heated discussions over there with them with their right wing POV. They DON'T agree with you at all.

Never mind some lefties disagreeing about the way to meet our shared goals.

You think banging your head against the wall with people who are at the polar opposite of you will be more enjoyable and fruitful. Well, all the more to you I guess.

The place is a garbage pit or right wing paranoia and misogyny.

whether people agree with me or not, I'm not always right either and have learned quite a bit over the past several years. All I care about is that people are civil. And they are learning fast, those who thought they could disrupt the site, that it isn't going to be tolerated by people on all sides.

And in my experience with people, regardless of their political affiliations, sometimes it IS possible to persuade them to see things differently. In fact across the country now there are more and more coalitions forming between people on certain issues, such as the Drug War and Wall St etc. and other issues that without cooperation from a majority of americans nothing will ever change. Funny how it's okay for politicians to do this, but when the people do it, it's an outrage. Well, it's not, it's past time to end the 'divide and conquer' nonsense that we all engaged in for far too long while those at the top had NO loyalities or affilliations other than money.

do I "think Right Wingers are easier to tolerate than Democrats who have not changed

their views on issues since back in the Bush years?"

first, I used the qualifier "some" for both the groups I mentioned. I did NOT say anything about "Democrats who have not changed their views on issues since back in the Bush years"


to be fair to you, I also was not clear which DUers I was speaking about. I am primarily a Lounge denizen and my knowledge of actual DU "personalities" is mostly limited to other Loungers.

I said there are a few (some) cons showing up over there that seem civil and willing to dialog and that I would actually prefer to do that than see the crap posted by a few (SOME) previously banned DUers. I never said anything about their politics or consistency of views whatsoever. And even if that WERE what I wrote, there are people that have perfectly fine, completely aligned views with me that are utter assholes and I don't want to interact with them either.

I get stuck on the question of how you make someone stop lying when you're not allowed to hit them.

I am just not interested in arguing with anonymous people on the internet.

It does seem to be attracting some of DU's more prolific shit-stirrers though so there is that. If it can quiet this place down a little bit, well then yay.

I do think it will have a quieting effect if for no other reason than some folks that are lionized here (for reasons I have never understood) are getting to hear first hand that many are onto them.

Cave-like even.

So like you, other and no thank you

I took a look, Cha. Me, I am not interested in it.

If it takes some of the crap out of GD, then I will be happy.

a cess pool.


I take my own crap out of GD.. straight to the trash bin.

It doesn't have a FOCUS.

It's sort of a DU "General Discussion Forum" gone off wild.

Now...I haven't signed up...and maybe when one signs up the site looks totally different in the ability to view or something.

I think it's a great place for folks on their Mobile Phones who want a quick click for action to see some news that folks post.

Just seems too much of a free-for-all...and I never wanted to deal with RW'ers to try to convince them of anything that I believe...because I already know from former "Friends & Family" that there's no way of dealing with their entrenched beliefs.

I wish it well...maybe if "DU 3" goes down I'll end up there...but, I was one of the last Holdouts on DU-2" after the switchover...and I'd still be there if there wasn't just around 4 of us still there and I figured I was being a Luddite or something...so I finally came over here.

So...it's just me..and my opinion. I think it's a great move for Admins to do this, Though.

So....we shall see what comes of it .. New enterprises take time to grow.

When you're appealing to a broad spectrum, it's easier to offer an environment that will appeal to the lowest common denominator.

It needs to be a "Dive in and use it" forum to attract all comers, and it is that.

If it takes some of the stink out of this place in the run-up to 2016, I can get with that! More power and mazel tov, and all!

DU3 isn't going anywhere. I'm pretty sure you can take THAT to the bank. This new site has different goals and a completely different audience. There will be some overlap because, since everyone is welcome to the new place, we're all "everyone" too.

I think it's a bit of a Mean Girls club, but that can be cathartic for some.

It's hierarchical, not chronological. It's much better! Some of the newbies on Disc have commented they find it confusing, but I wish every forum would use this format.

Disc is even simpler than DU with the tabs at top. The tagging within the forums is a nice feature,too. I like the colorful look.

I agree, I hope the admins make some bucks on this & that more forums will adopt this format over the chrono format. Maybe they can make some bucks off that, too. That would be cool.

and I like it okay, though I probably won't be spending as much time there as I do here. I like engaging with RW from time to time, but it does get tiring after a while, especially since I have to deal with so many of them IRL. I may go over there and have some fun with them when I'm feeling combative, but most of my time will be spent here on DU.

One is a democratic site the other is not. The guys who invented DU are gonna make it big (they hope, and probably will) off their software genius. Good for them. Skinner and company are good liberal Democrats and I wish them well.

so, its good to keep your post kicked for a few days to see what more think.

Skinner kind of sprung this at us out of the blue....and, many folks here on DU haven't had time to check it out yet to see what they think.

Keep it kicked ...to see over weekend what the opinions are as more sign up or visit and decline...whatever.

Why not let the admins make some money off of it, and give the opposition a place to congregate where all ideas are exchanged in a halfway civil environment?

It beats the constant and continuous infiltration. Over there, the "rules" are that differences of political opinion are part of the site's purpose. The "civility" part will be interesting, though--I think we'll see more generic name calling across the board because those righties really love to do that kind of thing--they can't help it, it seems.

There is something to be said for clans with a C, not a K--one is nurtured and supported within that kind of structure. That said, people are going to want to try their ideas out on the other team, and no one has an easier and more navigable web product than our guys. THEY might as well be the ones to make some dough off of the enterprise. If they don't do it, than the clunky sites like Huffpo and POLITICO (and they have curiously corporatist agendas) will get all the traffic. It's way easier to "discuss" using our admins' software.

As a result, I check it out for laughs and eye rolls, but don't post there.

I don't see myself ever posting exclusively over there, but it can be amusing.

of the front page.

I "talk" on the internet to get away from them.

Someone sussed him out.

They are living up to their stereotypes. While it's frustrating, it's also somewhat unbelievable to read some of what they are saying. Lots of complaining about everything from an avatar one person chose, to the number of threads on a particular topic, and, of course, about the jury system and hidden posts.

So I actually haven't been.

1. It's filled with posters who want to talk about DU,it's basically Meta taken off site with conservative cavers chiming in.Forums that talk about other forums aren't successful, they don't grow past the point of attracting anybody who's uninterested in talking about people they don't know on forums they aren't interested it.That kind of insular sport of attacking forums from another forum only will appeal to a very small group and it's a forum killer.No successful forums allow it.

2.There has to be a line drawn on any political forum that keeps out the extremist nuts.There's already a "news" thread linked to Beforeitsnews(a conspiracy site) about the militias preparing for war in America. Once a forum allows the Prison Planet/Alex Jones types in and they realize they're free to post,they'll take over and Stormfront won't be far behind.Forums can appeal to regular people who want to talk politics or they can appeal to nuts,they never will appeal to both. The admins need rules about what's acceptable to post,juries are useless in setting rules.

3.The forum categories are a hot mess,there's no rhyme or reason to what gets posted where.I think about a new poster,unaffiliated with DU,who enters the Culture forum only to see endless threads about a site called DU or "who do u think is hot?" OPs. Culture should be about culture. The Fun forum is there for those OPs.
The News forum needs rules about what can be posted as news.Again,juries are useless for setting boundaries and structure,that's the job of the admins.

I use Fark as a comparison,because it's a forum open to all political persuasions,I post there and am very familiar with it and it's a huge,successful forum. There are rules as to what gets posted where. Crazy Alex Jones/ Stormfront type posts or links will get you banned.Going there to complain about what someone on another forum said to you will get you laughed at.Successful sites have rules and cohesive sub forums with admins keeping things running smoothly,so far I'm not seeing any of that at Discussionist.

I think if it keeps 'em over there, more power to 'em.

has anyone notified the police?!?!?!?!?!

belongs in the Fun forum not the Culture forum.Once again you use hyperbole and exaggeration to mock a point no one was making. Your schtick is tired.

ought to be.

I sympathize.

Anyway, you listed off a few things you found irritating about the new site, like stormfront, and... hot people threads. So... knowing how fucked up stormfront is, being a Jew and all, I can only imagine the deep distress the hot people threads must be causing, to have them listed right up there with stormfront.



My feeling is that admin wanted to experiment with tag-based organizational structure which is very different than the way DU is organized. So it's gonna be real different, and there are probably going to be things like hotness threads popping up in weird places, making them even more exceptionally irritating, offensive, and distressing than they would be otherwise.

Stormfront on equal footing with hot people. Like I said,your schtick is old and tired.

I can think of 10 major potential issues with that site off the top of my head, having a picture of Johnny Depp with his shirt off show up in an unexpected place isn't one of them.

It had nothing to do with your hyperbole regarding my "distress".

The indisputable fact that some people here have traditionally gone completely fucking bonkers over stuff like bathing suits or hot celebrities, is unrelated.

Fair enough.

and don't deny it. There is no reason to continue fanning the flames here when no one is even upset.

I guess I just have a reflexive reaction to what appears to be people complaining, again, about hot celebrities or whatnot. It's like, shit, it's not even on this site. One would have to hunt it down specifically to just find the thing to get mad about.

I know you love to feel like you're carrying out some guerilla insurrection by posting cheesecake, but you're not. She didn't complain about your precious SI thread.

And for some reason the OP self-deleted anyway, though I don't know why.

Please, let's be precise.

Really a perfect response, particularly in light of the ridiculous thread(s) insisting as apes men are hardwired to look at bums in SI.

Last edited Sun May 18, 2014, 11:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Participants either a) are DU'ers, b) were DU'ers or c) have a fixation on DU.

make any sense here on DU, really. The site is what it is. Some people will like it and use it, while others, like me, won't. It's not DU, and wasn't designed to be DU. It's something completely different, and will attract a different group of users. Having visited it a few times, I see that it is not a place I'll visit regularly. I have an account, but am not moved to post on discussionist.com. It's just not my cup of tea.

The two sites are separate and very different. I hope to see that separation at work on both sites. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to discuss one site on the other, although many people probably will.

Group think is for followers, not leaders.

Is there some stupid over there? Tons of it. But at least you know where people stand without the passive/aggressive games.

on my DU screen so I went there a read for a while. I have similar feelings as well mixed with a healthy dose of apathy. I almost felt like I was cheating because this site is so iconic. So the polling options didn't fit me too well but that's fine. I do hope they make lots of money and persuade some voters for 2014.

pleasantly surprised by how civil it is over there so far.

Or maybe it's just that I've not been into the more contentious groups, but the groups and posts/topics I have read have been just as civil as here.

And the diversity of opinions...very interesting.

Nice layout.

I really sort of like the place

it's nice to not have to worry about people thinking you are a troll just because you don't have thousands of posts. I'm more of a reader than a poster, so my post count will not jump at either place, but at the new site, people aren't paying attention to post counts, so it's kind of nice.

It only seemed fair to let people know they are arguing with the same thick skinned, thick skulled, stubborn son of a...

... oh, hi, mom!

No seriously, I got my berserker genes from my mom, my mom got those genes from her mom who eventually had to be removed from her home as a danger to herself and others kicking, hitting, spitting, biting, throwing things, and OMG, cylindropuntia penis demons up your ass cussing.

Thank God my grandma didn't remember where she'd put her guns or the police would have shot her. My mom thought she'd found and taken all the guns, but we found more cleaning grandma's house.

My grandma was real wild west and a shipyard welder too. Dogs, horses, cattle, horny sailors, and hot metal she understood, people in general, not so much. She was insane and I hope somebody is kind enough to call me that when my life story is done.

I fear not the authoritarians, misogynists, DU undead, etc., on Discussionist. My only concern is they will be boring.

There are places on DU that cannot hold my interest, but there are always plenty of places that do.

DU has many very intelligent people. I'm not convinced the Discussionist experiment will turn out so well. Reality has a well-known liberal bias.

I belong to organizations with many of them. Many people I know are very conservative, and a few are even rooting for the Tea Party. This is my real life. I come to DU to get news, as well as information. In this way, I am not as clueless as most of the people I have to deal with. I have to defend my views all the time.....I don't want to do it online.

Besides, it always gets my blood pressure up when I hear many of the horrible things that wingnuts say when my back is turned.

I'm posting there and here.

Maybe I'll get banned there.

I'd rather hit myself over the head with a phone book

I think Disc will benefit DU - not only can the conservatives speak their mind, the left can too. Very soon on this site, we will not be able to state, "I will not vote for Hillary Clinton."

That said, I think the problem will remain the same - both sides agree that there are problems & even mostly what those problems are, but our ideas on how to solve them are worlds apart. Reading some of the threads over there, I doubt I'll ever find common ground with people who don't believe in a social safely net, who believe that a progressive tax rate is stealing from the rich, who adopt a "you're on your own" mindset over "we're in this together" mindset.

It's too early to guess how it's all going to work out, but when the jury system started here I thought about how it would work out on a regular message board that's not held to the standards of a website like DU. Everyone is welcome and the juries are going to be very interesting.

I just read this thread: