It will come down to the moment Zimmerman claims he reached for his cell phone.

The entire story is imploding

Is the authorities find a way to avoid another Casey Anthony debacle. Thank God the Grand Jurists are kept anonymous. This is not good for the country.

Zimmerman in his own statement says he was punched and attacked when he reached for his cell phone. Treyvon could have thought he was going for a knife or gun and defended himself. According to Zimmerman himself this is when the confrontation escalated from verbal to physical. This is where it will be very complicated legally. Up until that point neither had done anything illegal. Of course this is a speculation on my part. No actual evidence is released yet.

Zimmerman?

This is some of what the State has and we do not. What would you charge him with if you were the new DA? And if you feel like it. What evidence would you use? Top 5 pieces of evidence. There is so much.

premeditated. I dont know legally if 5 minutes counts as premeditated. I would also charge him for the hate crime.

5 pieces of evidence:
There were no defensive wounds on Trayvon's hands. That means he didn't stand a chance or put up a fight.
The cries for help on the 911 tapes.
The fact that Zimmerman chose to go after Trayvon, even when the police advised him not to.
the trajectory maps, assuming they are correct, where people show that Zimmerman had to go way out of his way to follow Trayvon.
the principal detectives' report that Zimmerman was lying and should be arrested.

I think the Detective report indicated he thought he could get Manslaughter. But DA did not agree. My opinion is that they are working with all the statements Zimmerman gave and the re-enactment he did to build a case. I am not sure that Zimmerman did anything illegal by going after him to see what he was up to.. No wounds if confirmed would put a cloud over Zimmermans alibi that he was punched. I think they will hang him with his own statements. Especially when he claims he was punched by Treyvon when he (Zim) reached for his cell phone. That would indicate Trevon standing his ground if he thought Zimmerman was going for a weapon. Soooo complicated. I hope they get this out in the open soon.

screaming for help and that is on 6 different 911 calls. I don't see how it is complicated at all.

I think they may be building a case so strong that Zimmerman has to plea out. The Central Florida Prosecutors and Courts do not want another Casey Anthony Fiasco in the media. I normally look at a case from the Defense side of things by nature. This one is all upside down. Do not forget the Detective did not have all the phone records on the first night. Nor did the DA. They had a co-operating suspect. Sometimes they take a while to build a case.

The subhead mentions lawyers, but I don't see anything about them in the piece.

Since they mentioned them they should have actual quotes from them, or something.

there is already so much out there. replace Trayvon with anyone who is not a black or some other dark male.

the problem with this whole case is the assumption is that Trayvon is guilty . and it's Trayvon where we need to prove is innocent.

the thugs dad claimed Trayvon said to George zimmerman smoething about how he will be dead tonight and when Zimmerman shot Trayvon, Trayvon said "you got me". ins't that fucking proof these people are full of shit.

and if tRayvon actulaly did say the crap about how Zimmerman was going to die that shit would be out there from day 1 . instead we are just hearing about it now.

So how could he have possibly said "you got me". How do we know? One eye witness said that it was only seconds after the shot was fired that someone came up with a flashlight. I presume that was the police and Martin was already motionless. But this also impacts the police report. If the policeman was on the scene within seconds he should have heard the shot himself. The police report makes no mention of this. Keep in mind that there is only a 1 minute gap between when Zimmerman was on the phone with authorities and the police arrive on the scene.

Reading between the lines from what witnesses have said and other evidence it looks like Zimmerman shoved Martin to the ground then pulled out his gun causing Martin to screem for help. Zimmerman then simply pulled the trigger and Martin either lurched, turning on his stomach, or Zimmerman then reached down and turned Martin over on his stomach, which is the position he was in when police arrived. Ballistics should show the angle the bullet travelled and testing for powder burns would determine how far away Martin was when he was shot. If it shows that Martin was shot from more than 2-3 feet we would have a smoking gun for 1st degree murder. That is how key distance is to this case. The angle would be roughly the same, whether Martin was on top of Zimmerman as he claims or Martin was shoved to the ground and shot by a standing Zimmerman. Lastly, was the bullet lodged in Martin's body or did it pass all of the way through. If it did pass all of the way through the police need to get back to the crime scene and dig up the yard looking for the spent bullet.

gap and then the police were on the scene.

Martin family attorney Ben Crump's office says cell phone records who Trayvon was on the phone from 7:12 to 7:16 p.m. and the police were on the scene at 7:17 p.m.

According to the Guardian, "The girl heard Trayvon ask: 'Why are you following me, man?' before, she says, he was pushed by the older man."

Wow, must be some new app.

Are you perhaps using one of these?

Awesome photo btw.

were to happen in the middle of what the caller were saying, interrupting him/her, I would conclude it was the one talking to me being pushed.

I am just saying, you would hear that something was jarring the phone, I hear it to a lesser degree just when somebody is fumbling with their phone sometimes.

That picture is cool but depressing, I once owned a similar phone (please pretend you can't tell I'm old from that )

But is that the testimony of the witness here? Based on what i have read elsewhere, no. As I posted below, I suspect that the Guardian and not Trayvon Martin's girlfriend is the one claiming that she heard something to indicate that Zimmerman was the pusher. I am more than happy to be proven wrong about this, however.

I worry about jumping to conclusions here. If Zimmerman is telling the truth and Martin initiated the fight, then Zimmerman is getting far worse than he deserves. Granted, he was clearly a wannabe vigilante harassing an innocent teen, leading to horrible consequence, and so he deserves some shit. And regardless of who initiated the fight, Martin is the primary victim here. But if Zimmerman did not murder Martin, then Zimmerman doesn't deserve the level of outrage that is being directed towards him.

No matter how it happened, the use of a firearm to protect oneself, just is not justifiable even if the much smaller kid did land a shot, using a gun against an unarmed kid is still murder, hell even in the old west, one could only shoot an armed man in defense, shooting an unarmed man, let alone a child, would have resulted in a hanging.

I guess perhaps we disagree on this point as well, I still think all the credible evidence shows no actual life threatening harm was done to the vigilante, certainly nothing that would justify the homicide.

From what verifiable evidence I have before me I still come up with murder.

We have to separate the moral from the legal sense of murder. The mere fact that Martin was unarmed will not suffice to establish murder in the legal sense. If Zimmerman did nothing illegal prior to the fight, Martin threw the first punch, and Zimmerman reasonably feared grave bodily harm, then it is apt to be justifiable self-defense. On the other hand, if you are using murder in a non-legal, moral sense, then I won't argue with you, though I would be incliend to disagree.

Last edited Sat Mar 31, 2012, 08:33 AM - Edit history (1)

Every other story I have read about the friend's testimony says that she heard someone pushed before the call was dropped, not that she heard that Martin was pushed.

I am not doubting the girls testimony, and it does raise questions about the accuracy of Zimmerman's story. What I am doubting is the accuracy of the story in the Guardian. The story also inaccurately describes the other witness's testimony.

they may be reporting on what is being reported and not so much relating facts

WE NEED TO UNPLUG OUR HATEFUL MEDIA......

was only armed with a gun and was much larger rather than much, much larger, the kid was black and everyone knows they are dangerous even as toddlers.

Such hatred for a kind man that was just trying to hunt a c.... in season.

I believe that poster is permanently emotionally damaged by the hateful, hateful people that won't send Mr Zimmerman flowers.
He HAD to sign up to post

You do know this is from a UK outlet...?!

to anyone. Right?

just in case

Thanks for the thread, malaise.