I always enjoyed the fact that those freepers had to deal with such a poorly designed site. Looks like they are finding new digs.

There is a law of unintended consequences. If that becomes a site where the majority are freeper types, the jury system will be a sword rather than a shield.

That it only be used for narrow partisan interests is silly.

Here can be that way, too.

is not a community standard or "shared set of values". If the cited thread is any indication, this could devolve into the chat group version of Crossfire. In that case, the jury system essentially becomes a statistical battle. The side that has more of its people on the forum can use the jury system to bludgeon the other side.

It could be an interesting sociological experiment, but my bet is it will be a train wreck.

Perhaps there could evolve a more powerful jury system that has disincentives for using the alert/jury system as an attack weapon. I have advocated such enhancements for THIS forum. My guess is that they will be needed even more at the new forum.

It's a platform for ad distribution, I don't think he built it to be a safe haven, it's a business.

Lets say it takes away users from the CC, FR and other sites, that in itself is a win.

The notion of safe havens and moderated thought only go so far...

A place where people can post stuff that would be unacceptable on DU?

let the posters there form their own community standards. It is new - give it time to settle down.

an opportunity to step away from the kabuki dance DU has evolved into over various issues. Discussion boards get ossified over time as they start to center on long term posters and the baggage they bring to every discussion. Look at how much of our strife here is personality driven as long time antagonists bang heads time and time again over the same issues.

I suspect Skinner realizes that DU has reached the point of diminishing returns. Since this software is his livelihood, it makes sense for him to find ways to reach new audiences and grow his business.

differently than they do here - but they didn't. They just brought their battles with DUers over there where they can disparage DUers freely. It is particularly funny when people suggest they want to leave the baggage behind - but they don't.

then the site will develop its own dynamic and culture. Right now it is DU lite because we were the first to be told about it. I think many posters that think DU reflects their views will eventually come home and stop posting there.

I don't know if it will succeed or not but I understand why Skinner did it and I understand why he does not want it to evolve into another DU.

that DU types used to higher standards of rational discussion (not that it can't get childish around here) are not going to waste time dealing with ignorant RW talking points that are impervious to logic.

RW Freeper types will never trust the board since it is run by a "liberal" who runs DU.

I don't see an upside to this.

Skinner was able to create create DU so there is no reason to believe that he can't succeed again.

More to the point, perhaps he had no choice. It is not like DU is growing - like every discussion board I suspect it has reached the point of diminishing returns.

when political forums, especially (ostensibly) liberal political forums were not to be found in great quantities. Discussion forums are a penny a dozen these days, covering about every topic you can imagine. I really don't see what chance a "general" discussion forum is going to have, especially when moderation is scaled way back.

instead of limiting himself to the slow and eventual death of DU?

so that is kind of hard to determine. At the moment the site is off its all time high traffic numbers from late 2012, but that is to be expected since that was a presidential election year.

which makes perfect sense.

"Democrat Party", "Repukes" and similar pejoratives should be banned regardless.

Keep it civil, no problems, but letting uncivil discourse go on boils down to an insult hurling board, not a discussion board.

though seemed as if you thought the baggage of long term posters and their disagreements were left here when in fact those posters just went over to Discussionist and started them there.

Frankly I hope that Skinner sees that there is now an outlet for the bigots so we can finally amend the TOS language around sexism and misogyny here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11399347

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12565203

That to me would be a win-win.

I suspect that DU stopped growing a long time ago. Skinner saw the writing on the wall and was looking for a way to grow his business.

lot of new users were getting PPRd for making posts that could have easily come from long term members. Just some thoughts on what could be inhibiting growth (if you somehow have numbers regarding how many new users join annually). I'm not saying all new users should be welcomed here by any means, just that a lot of existing members, if subject to MIRT might not be here either. I would guess once we get into the full blown presidential campaign season we'll be getting more new users. I've been here since 2001 and that seems to be the way it worked in the past.

I've been here almost two years now, and I'm still scared to actually say what I think for fear of being PPRed, just because the number next to my name isn't high enough. And it's not like I'm a centrist or anything, I'm pretty liberal, I'm just scared someone would take a post of mine the wrong way, and then a storm happens.

rw, shouldn't have anything to worry about if you're a liberal. Just keep the attacks to a minimum.

You're fine! I was just providing some evidence to back up your argument, haha.

I must admit, that's a major relief!

which is so damned tiresome to constantly counter (given so many of those posters care nothing for facts or data)-- the end result will be a haven for the ugly. With a predicted decrease of DUers and other moderates, juries will let through more extremist RW/libertarian postings--even when the racism, misogyny, or other bigotry is not subtle.

And, the whole cycle repeats until Discussionist site becomes too unpleasant to even peruse.

I hope I am wrong.

I've put so many folks of full ignore and trashed so many threads as garbage... it's just not worth my time looking for worthwhile discussions among the weeds.

keeping it sane,that's my opinion anyway. It has to start with some rules as I've posted before. It's not the conservatives over there that annoy me,I don't mind arguing with conservatives,it's some of the so called liberals there that I find reprehensible.

who won't agree on what constitutes a fact.

Let them get it out of their system.

Nobody knows what it'll be, but it ain't gonna be DU.

It really is simple sometimes. Now I see the reason for not allowing posts from certain other conservative websites to be posted on DU2... some people are just rubberneckers and can't help themselves.

I went a couple of times and it was exactly what I expected. DU is a safe haven against the RWNJs. I like it that way.

I'd say that makes it different from OET or CC.

I'm sure the Admins knew that this would happen when they created the site.

Never seen the point of limiting discussion myself. If people wanna talk about it, let em, and if I don't want to, I don't join in. Simple.

If so, what were the results?

Discussionist is definitely not DU. What flies over there would not fly here. That is the point of it. I am finding Discussionist difficult to stomach.

adjudicated and left to stand by a jury.

are only as good as those participating in the community.

What the hell is Discussionist and what does it have to do with DU?

to allow conservative Democrats a place to blow off steam and Republicans who can manage civility a place to talk with them.

I didn't realize conservative Democrats couldn't do that here. Lord knows there are enough of them.

A lot of Recovering Republicans and conservative Dems felt uncomfortable because of that.

It doesn't matter that they're wrong, they really do believe the rubbish. Now they have a more friendly site to discuss the stuff without being bagged. It does look like rational discussions are taking place here and there. Posts seem to be hidden for incivility, not for being anti Democratic Party or anti planks in the platform.

At best, it will be a safety valve for religious people and other conservatives. At worst, it will be a melee that will do no one any good.

It's not my kind of site. I'll wait to see which way it goes, though.

Or you can spend some time there and stumble on conversations like this one - which has real people talking about subjects you don't normally see liberals and conservatives talking civilly about (or even liberals without shouting at each other, for that matter).

http://www.discussionist.com/1018444

issues here on DU. But, some groups got inbred and closed out people from participating who didn't agree perfectly with SOP of the Group or with whom they had personality conflicts.

So, I can see some interesting discussions coming up over there. Its early yet for the site. Maybe those disappointed with "Discussionist" will begin to see the value of visiting some of the "Groups" here on DU-3 or at least the value of spending more time here discussing issues rather than getting bogged down in personality conflicts and candidate loyalties after seeing how a pure "Community Standards" Message Board (inviting all to participate) can have its downside if it devolves into random thought posting and hashing out old grievances without purpose.

It will be interesting to see how it evolves.

But people were discussing civilly their views about the interplay between faith and science. Some very brilliant scientists do not find a belief in evolution incompatible with faith - even though many here seem to believe they are (excluding faith) & many on conservative websites seem to believe they are (excluding science). This particular thread discussed - at least in part - how the two can can work together.

Yes - I find that refreshing, as do many people I know of both faith and science on the left side of the political spectrum.

You seem too hung up on the label they chose for the discussion.

I think it'll be a successful business, too.

Just not a forum I'll ever be a part of.

Someone needs to come up with a catchy name for a Poe's Law in politics. That one is taken by far right religion.

I suspect Skinner realizes that DU has reached the point of diminishing returns. Since this software is his livelihood, it makes sense for him to find ways to reach new audiences and grow his business. Which means Discussionist cannot be another DU.

to other folks who want to set up a forum?

but I suspect Skinner does. I would guess he has a business strategy he is implementing which he feels will maximize his return.

we don't get enough of this "rational" type of discussion here.

I REALLY hope none of the money I donate to DU is helping subsidize this.

I wouldn't want to support that site.

I have no hard data on how the site is funded. I would hope we are not subsidizing it, but that is something Skinner may need to address.

Last edited Tue May 20, 2014, 12:34 PM - Edit history (1)

I do hope Skinner has something set up for that, because I do not want my money going to support a 'community' like what's shaping over there.

On edit: Hrm...maybe I have an ad-block program that's working too well. I can't even tell if there's space for ads. If there are adds, then I guess that's how he'll get the money to pay for that site.

a boring version of a game show. But I think the categories can evolve if nough people tag them? that could be interesting.
Just not for me, I prefer to be someplaced more focused and civil. If it does drain off the disruptors from here though...

I just opened it and there's an ad on the right hand side for a Chrysler Town and Country van, and a banner ad not immediately at the top but near it for LifeLock, whatever that is.

If being a star member means I shouldn't get the ads, I'd like that. I signed up with the same email address.

There's an underwear ad right at the top of the page

Mine picks up on ads (just a few) as I peruse the site.

please do NOT make a support decision based on my idle speculation. A new site is unlikely to have any ads, since the first thing you have to do to attract ads is deliver traffic, which this new site is only now cultivating.

That said, ad revenues have been plummeting for some time, and many sites I know who made really decent cash with ads are now having a hard time. The only model that I know is working is the "subscription/patron" model, and you have to have a hard core audience for that.

Anyone who isn't seeing them has some sort of adblocking software.

There's one at the top, and two at the bottom of each list of threads - and two at the bottom of each thread.

Every backlink to DU from outside yields a helping of ad revenue that we star members don't provide.

provide hard cash. Some of us provide it monthly.

Discussionist is a business, using IMO the best discussion forum software on the internet. It's not DU4, it's not even supposed to be for Democrats.

It's for whoever wants to sign up. Its target audience is everyone who's not on DU, plus maybe a few DUers who want to post at both. It's probably not a site I'm going to be a big participant at. I might try Sports or Fun, but will probably stay away from News, Politics and Culture - which seem to be mostly populated with previously banned DUers, fringe lefties, and right-wing trolls.

I hope it's wildly successful and Skinner, EarlG and Elad get all the rewards for their hard work that they deserve.

I'lll stick to DU.

Sid

good post

Jesus

If it ever does.

I think the behaviorist in Skinner (haha) would like to prove we share enough in common with conservatives that the board can reach equilibrium through community moderation. Thing is, they're NOT like us. As far as I can tell they're an entirely different species. Last couple of days has seen such an influx of stupid, it even overwhelms MY combative dickishness. Honestly, most of the shit they post is too lame to inspire a response.

A few of us here on DU are non-American, but not many - we have some sort of interest in US politics (personally, I worked in the US for a couple of years), and DU is explicitly about the US Democratic party.

The other politics forum I take part in (which is called, with amazing originality, 'Politics Forum') is international as well as all affiliations (it has standards such as no Nazism or race-based fascism, but fascists who don't base their ideology on race are allowed). You have to post in English, so it's dominated by countries with native English speakers, and there are more from the USA than any other single country, but I think Americans are a plurality, not a majority. Discussionist could be international as well - it just depends on how it develops. Not all conservatives around the world are like Tea Partiers. You can find plenty that aren't evangelical Christians and climate change deniers, and who are capable of holding a productive conversation with you.

Just not a lot of them hanging out on Discussionist so far.

Skinner has another business venture. Deal with it.

You should get an account there and talk about it. Doesn't belong here.

I offer no proof. I just heard it somewhere.

Therefore, I'm not *as* repulsed as some DU'ers. It's interesting seeing how the RW mind works and the BS they pull out to justify their opinions. I'm just waiting for Stormfront to flood the site and see if the juries work. I'm sure FR is already there, en masse.

members are consorting with another web site!

I wish them luck, all the people who post over there, for whatever reason! I'm glad they have a place to discuss the issues that matter to them, I hope that they learn a little something from one another, and I hope the site is wildly successful for the admins here. Everyone has to make a living, and the admins, for all their hard work in creating this smooth and intuitive platform, deserve a comfortable one!!!

Maybe, in my wildest dreams, conservatives can learn something from us.

Is to kick off his shoes, climb a tree and learn how to play the flute.

Stop cross-posting that shit here!

I nominate Discussionist for DU's website source shit list.

The conservatives on that board are really rather stupid and are fun to play with. The only way for these idiots to compete is by posting crap that they think will scare away DUers.

When they first started arriving on the board, I think they thought they were going to steamroll the site with their fact-free insults and ungrounded political opinions. That has really not been the case...some of these people are looking really stupid and are finding that our side is more than capable of addressing their RW talking points and exposing the logical fallicies and bigoted assumptions that buttress them.

So far, I think the jury outcomes have become remarkably fair. However, if they do reach a significant plurality, we will probably see RW biases beginning to impact the boards intent as a place where people of all political stripes can discussion issues civilly. I truly think that most conservatives are wedded to their ideology to a far greater degree than libs/progs. That distinction will play out by voting for their team poster or penalizing our team poster simply based on their team identification. Time will tell.

The conservatives on this board are really very very stupid. They are fun to play with and I do not mind mixing it up with people who are too stupid to understand the facts. The conservatives on this board post crap they hear on Fox News and expect other people to accept this crap as facts. It is so sad that it is funny.

These idiots are too stupid to know that they are stupid. http://www.discussionist.com/101516920 This is really funny given the posts on the conservative cave, free republic and conservative underground.

It's there for those who want to use it. It is what it is. You want to discuss it? Go discuss it there. That's my suggestion.

This is DU. DU is what DU is. Discussionist is not DU. Why not discuss it there?

As for what Skinner wants, that's his decision. He wanted another forum, so he has one. This is still DU.

Whats it to you anyway?

And who says I don't post there?

It's DU. People do that here.

Did I say you don't post there? That would surprise me, because I have no way of knowing.

including other boards. If you don't want to discuss it, don't participate in the thread.

Whatever gripes I may have with the far-left(and fringe-left) at times, it's stuff like this that reminds me that I'd have to put up with so much worse with the far-right trolls that seem to have taken over Discussionist already.

I haven't really looked at it in much detail yet, but those who know it exists are the most likely to participate.

and DU's Meta over there at Discussionist....


Ugh.

I haven't signed up and am still debating it but it blows the myths about carter up

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-carterreagan.htm
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-recession1982.htm

and if that keeps the crap from clogging our forums, so much the better.

Of course, it would have been nice if feminists, minorties, labor activists and others could have had a defense right here on DU. The mean kids get the new cake baked just for them, we get the slices and are told be say thank you.

those posts merely demonstrate the anemic arguments from the right. I didn't read the threads, but I'm sure the posts were roundly ridiculed by smarter posters.

It's the perfect opportunity to confront these assholes on a Skinner, et al. designed site. I will say many are being civil, and there's actual *discussion* taking place. There's idiocy as well, with an Obama-as-pimp poster being given the ol' heave-ho.

right-wingers and trolls, and is a waste of bandwidth.

both of them good on their threads (my username there is "JML510&quot . They asked for it.

Now we're going to be complaining about discussionist jury results on DU, too?



OOooooooh!!!!, it's making my metapalooza get all metatastically metariffic in a giant metagasm, yay.

Perfect.

talking about that thread talking about that thread

http://www.discussionist.com/101515152

The person that posted the fire thread is clearly immature. It was in retaliation for a "Reagan had Alzheimer's in his second term" thread. The post was unnecessary, but some people are so immature they can't help themselves.

There really nothing wrong with the second thread considering this is an open forum. It's an easy to answer stupid question.

On second thought forget about the message board!