Ok, golfers, I DO agree that at PGA levels it is a sport--and that it surely could be for the average "Joe"-- if hitting the ball involved more than riding in a motorized cart, getting out only long enough to make the shot.

At least they (carts) are electric... and better golf courses do recycle water, using non-potable for grounds care...

To each his own, I suppose..

You can't call something a sport that a 80-year-old man (or woman) can do well while intoxicated, and possibly smoking cigars or cigarettes.

But in all seriousness, I reject the OP's point that this is an activity for the 1 percent. There are many public courses where people of all walks of life play. I suspect there are also many DUers who play.

I do not because it's boring and I find the etiquette part of it to be tedious.

Never would have thought about cross country skiing on a golf course but it's easy to see how that could be ideal in winter.

which is not suitable for drinking.

But maybe Obama will champion this cause? Lol.

parade? Mostly by people who don't understand what they are talking about?
I think they need the gratification of the other people who also don't know what they are taking about.
Rather than to do some personal reflection they look out of their pie holes and put other people down.
It is a common thing on DU. Same mechanics but different topics.

Anyone else feel that way about it?

Disclaimer: But, hey, obviously people are free to golf and like golf etc, etc. I'm not trying to ban it or anything.

Why on earth?

Genuinely curious.

The frat-boy/rich-boy attitudes of many (but certainly not all) golfers I've known, the aura of exclusivity (especially at country clubs that are essentially whites-only), the weird dorky clothing, the fact that I associate golf with two of my least favorite people (including my mother's rightwing boyfriend), the hushed clapping at golf tournaments, etc. ... I admit it's not entirely rational, but I have met a couple other people who are sort of creeped out by it all as well.

while getting hammered with their friends who they will give business to instead of POC or women, or god forbid anyone else that deserves it more. It is part of the culture that stagnates businesses, and perpetuates the glass ceilings out there. Businesses pay their way- and they get to play and call it working overtime.

we stop wasting gas in jet skis.

I started to say "Las Vegas lights" but being from Florida, the whole amusement park phenomenon creeps me out and pisses me off with how much of the natural resources they destroy and waste.

Why pick on golf, which at least creates beautiful landscapes out of often unused land.

I've seen studies that claim the number of rounds of golf played in the US has drastically declined over the past 10 years. And that golf courses were being dug up for development or simply allowed to revert to nature because there was no money to be made.

I don't recall if there were reasons given for the lack of golfers, but I've got to believe that a big part of it is the fact that average working Americans simply do not have the time nor money to engage in the same type of leisure activities that they did back when we actually had a middle class.

Also, young people aren't taking up the game in numbers sufficient to make up for the decline, so all you see on courses these days, are geezers. Who don't have a lot of golfing years left.

I doubt if I'd be buying stock in companies who make golf balls, clubs or carts.

of golf is because golf courses were overbuilt in the late 90s and early 00s. Tiger Woods led to golf mania and then interest leveled off.

Over the pavement of a Wal-Mart.........

This water is for the rich. They want pretty greens.

... gives me the right to bear clubs.

You have to play golf to appreciate it. It really is that simple. And a lot of the 99% play on the thousands of public courses around the country. Not all golfers are Judge Smails. And a green golf course beats a paved parking lot any day. Also, it still remains one of the few sports during which you can drink a beer while playing. That alone will guarantee its survival through the hardest of times.

People have an expectation that everything must be wall to wall green. And flowerbeds everywhere and trees everywhere. THe flowerbed and trees just suck down the water and hurt growing good turf. The first step in any golf course renovation is tree removal. Probably should be the third, fourth and fifth steps too.

Next, get rid of all the sprinklers except the center line sprinklers. A great example of this will be Pinehurst #2, which is hosting the US Open this year. It was built by the great Donald Ross. It even had oiled sand greens when built. Over the years they replaced the native sandy areas with grass, which needs watering.

Well, a few years ago Pinehurst hired Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw to redo the course. They ripped out all the rough and replaced it with native sandy grass. They took out all the sprinklers except for down the middle of the fairways. THis is the result:





Water costs money. Pumps cost money. Mowing rough costs money. Pesticides cost money. You use less of all of this with fewer trees.

No pesticides, no irrigation, no fertilizers, basically just native species on land manipulated and maintained for challenging play.

Every golf course would reflect the natural landscape of it's own site and present many unique challenges to golfers, especially visiting golfers.

Synthetic putting greens, if necessary, wouldn't even have to be green, or even imitate grass. I'm imagining a reworkable clay-like surface with some resiliency and permeability, but similar properties to grass for landing balls and putting.

I've got a couple of avid golfers in my family, not the "country club" sort at all. I can play decently enough that I don't frustrate other players.

I don't own my own clubs. The golfers in my family have plenty, both hand-me-downs, and clubs they've picked up in thrift stores.

Your vision, while noble, is only possible in Scotland, coastal Oregon, New Zealand, and some othet places.

The links of Scotland was the worst land, built on sand which cannot support anything but grazing by sheep, and the bunkers were the sheep would lie down to avoid a blow.

There is an entire modern movement in golf, some call if the minimalist movement, which is a complete reaction to the Judge Smails everything is perfect impression of golf. This is very weird, but just yesterday on a thread I was talking to a DUer about the use of goats in golf course renovation.

Bottom line: the revolution has started, and has been won. Golf is going to be a net plus for the enviroment and the gamE is going to be much, much better for it.

Plenty of people travel for the express purpose of playing golf on public courses. They spend money at the golf course, but they also stay in hotels, eat in restaurants, stop in local shops and stores, and seek other entertainment as well.

And play a round, it will cost you all of $25-$50 which will include your club rentals and you will get a good 5 mile walk in. In some cities this is the only greenery around where you can actually walk. If you want to save money stop by your local thrift store and buy some clubs so you wont have to rent them, you can probably get the ones you need for around $10 which is the same price as what you would pay to rent them.

There are around 15,000 golf courses in the US, averaging about 74 acres each. That's around 1700 square miles. There are an estimated 49,000 square miles of lawns in the US.

At least the area devoted to golf courses provides people with an entertainment resource. What exactly does a lawn do? (Yes, lawns are better than impermeable surfaces when it comes to filtering rain water; but there are alternatives to lawns that are better for the environment).

At least the courses get used.

Too many businesses water during the day. I've seen sprinklers on at 2pm, the hottest part of the day. I've seen big patches of brown lawn because the sprinkler head is spraying into the street, & facilities hasn't even noticed. Probably because management cut the work force down to nothing so the CEO could get another few million dollars a year.

on edit: And don't get me started on homeowner lawns that hardly ever get used & the wasteful watering of that grass.

plus it keeps the 'Mow Blow and Go' industry afloat.

It's a big issue here in SoCal.

We were allowed 2 hours a week to water our lawn & each quadrant of the town got the same two hours so the water pressure was zip. As soon as they lifted the restrictions in September, the neighbor across the street ripped out his lawn & put in all new sod & watered the crap out of it.

Cause I think it's a dwindling sport, with the vast majority of devotees being pretty old. One of the courses around here went under recently, and was sold off to a developer, iirc. Just not enough people wanting to play to keep them afloat. I remember the boss taking me and several other employees once as a 'day out' to a different nearby course, and the place was pretty empty. It was vaguely interesting, but just didn't make me want to fork over major cash to play again. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if that course goes under sometime in the next decade.

golf courses and the like need to be the first to suffer a 75% reduction in water.

we need water for irrigation (responsibly), cooking, bathing, etc.

So what if 10,000 golf courses go under. they were a waste of time and money when they were built.

rich people enjoy their amenities. They mostly don't care about conservation.

the golf courses ?

Maybe on the greens, but there are many native plants that might be suitable for the rest of the course and more environmentally sustainable. This would be a good job for a landscaper who is an expert in Xeriscape.

We will force ourselves to find ways to use it as long as it's cheap. Anything that is cheap will be wasted by someone somewhere.

Or does it filter back into the ecosystem?

Any scientific DUers care to comment?

Unless you are separating the hydrogen from the oxide and not rejoining them, the water is going to be returned to the earth one way or another. Flushing the toilet twice when you only needed to flush it once doesn't destroy water, but it does waste it.

The real question is whether or not golf courses are using potable water and/or are they diverting water that would otherwise be used for better purposes. This is not a question that is so cut and dried as the toilet example.

For instance, where I live municipal water supplies all come from a reservoir. If the golf course has its own well and is not diverting water from a reservoir, it's not wasting water. In fact, the runoff from their water usage will eventually flow back into streams and rivers where it's deposited in reservoirs and serves to improve the potable water situation for the community rather than detracting from it.

Another example is let's say a golf course is converting sea water or brackish water to irrigation water. Or let's say the golf course is taking raw sewage and treating it themselves to the point at which they could use it for irrigation. In these cases, they are not using water that would otherwise be used by the community and are not being wasteful.

We live in an arid climate, and the Denver-Boulder metro area is actually fairly densely populated, with large bands of designated open space.

We're also looking for our "until assisted living" house -- where we will live for the next 30-40 years. I'm taking my time finding it, but one of the neighborhoods that keeps coming up in our searches is the neighborhood on the municipal course -- which, to be fair, is very water-thrifty and uses reclaimed water that the city cannot put into the down-stream system, uses minimal pesticides and weed-killers and is a rather pleasant green space. (It also has disc golf holes and city residents can take walks on the paths without having to chase a little ball with a stick.)

I am not a fan of golf, and I grew up in Phoenix, so I have a low opinion of over-watered golf courses, but I also think that open spaces for recreation and being outside are important. If chasing a little white ball is what gets people outside, then okay. I'd like to see the carts limited or mostly eliminated (some people really do need one), but having looked at the houses nearby and the neighborhood, I am coming to dislike the idea of golf courses a little less.

I think I'd object to them a lot less if more were managed like my municipal course -- you pay to play one of the sports, but otherwise, it's a city park where those not playing are accepting the risk of being around people playing a game, a municipal feature that is open to all and helps preserve our small wetlands (the water features are actually mostly natural wetland), preserves some natural habitat (the roughs are native grasses and plants) and allows for communal open space. What I dislike about the category "golf course" is the implied excess and elitism that the private clubs have associated with them.

I also see them as open space preservation. My town may drop the maintained golf course aspect in the next few years -- fewer traditional players, more speed-golfers and disc golfers, more appreciation for the rougher type of game (I've been told there is such a thing as extreme golf). It is a high cost for the city, and the course isn't earning enough to pay its way. But the city will make the course a full park at that point, not sell the land for development. I think that's a social good in the long run.