In the end the employer is the one who benefits the most.

I didn't want to work it, but I did get paid for it. I wouldn't want to do it again, but I can't say it was a mistake to do it, since I made a LOT of money through O.T. And for some people, they WANT to work as much O.T. as possible: they're saving for something special, or their spouse is unemployed, or whatever.

Otherwise EPIC fail response, as much of the recent uproar is over worker's concern about lost pay due to Apple's rules and Chinese labor laws being implemented to reduce overtime.

Worker Unit 167C's got a bright future at Foxconn.

We should all be good slaves and demand that our masters make us work more so that they can live better.

Wait... what?

No, people work more so that they can earn more.

But people who really enjoy the most $$ and work the less are the people who make their money from people who slave for them. Like Foxconn slaves.

Ok then, discussion over.

the workers were killing themselves because they could`t work 60 hours a week!

it then goes on to list that he invests in at least TWO companies that have their products MADE BY FOXCON.











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Parasite.

I wanted to work more too when I was already working 100+ hours a week at 3 min wage jobs. That want is really a need when bills need to be paid. That was resolved when I got a serious case of pneumonia since my immune system went to hell and was shown the door for missing work.

short bursts, the effect shouldn't be that bad.

I've read studies showing that the most stressful jobs have to do with LACK OF CONTROL IN ONE'S JOB, rather than number of hours or anything else.

Example: I come from a long line of farmers. Farmers work from wee hours of morning until the evening. You won't ever hear of farmers with insomnia. They are too physically tired. They sleep heavy, then wake up and do it again. They do it, even if they don't feel well (the cows always need milking, even if you have a sinus infection). But I think by and large farmers love their way of life. I think that's because they are their own bosses; they are in control.

I don't know about other countries, but in this country, a person isn't relegated to working for minimum wage. We can do something else. It may not be easy, but it's possible.

I work long hours, like the OP, in short bursts. I don't like it, but it's part of the kind of work I do. My bosses do, too, though not as much. I've made a lot of $ on O.T. Now that the pain of those long hours is over with, I'm left with the money, which I am grateful for. And my health doesn't seem to have suffered much. But that's life. If you're not born rich, well, you do what you have to do. It could be worse; I could be unemployed. That is more stressful than working long hours.

When the alternative is death, OF COURSE people put up with oppressive conditions. That's not the point, nor the question. The question is do we want AMERICAN workers to have to work like that? Or can we do better? For that matter, can we do better for THEM?

fucking sick!

I heard the latest NPR breakdown on what the investigators for Apple found. The Foxcomm employees were actually being paid less than what the joke of the Chinese labor board mandates, so the 2 to 4 hours a day/night "overtime" they were working - which wasn't being paid at an overtime rate, by the way - allowed them to make comparable wages to the normal hours other companies were giving their employees.

There is also an issue no one talks about - the quality of work that gets done on "overtime". I worked shipyard installation for many years, and have both worked *and supervised* a lot of overtime "running out of time" work on jobs that had been unrealistically scheduled or staffed, unmanaged risks or had poor supply chains.
Having experienced that sort of working condition, I can tell you this - working overtime for short periods of time is okay - the first week normally doesn't see a significant QA issue of an overtime/double-time (60 hr/100hr weeks) schedule.
But if it's a "long term" situation, you start seeing a logarithmic drop - the second week, you generally can expect a 5% increase in QA errors and re-work, the third week, around a 12% increase, and by the fourth week, a full quarter of the work produced is crap. And it doesn't matter what "culture" your workers come from; I've managed jobs in foreign countries with workers that were desperate to show what type of hard workers and how dedicated to work they were, but their bodies and minds just couldn't keep up with the stress of long hours of continuous repetitive work over a two/three week period of time.
No matter how eager your workers are to get the job done, they can't keep up a quality overtime schedule for more than a few weeks.
And Foxcomm employees are doing this for months at a time? I think I've found one of the reasons that one in three electronic devices fail by the time you take them home and the ones you don't have to return immediately are so poorly made that the average usable lifespan is about a year before they have to be replaced...

Haele

out of all of the electronics companies. They don't give a damn. They don't try. They make people work seven days per week literally under the whip. That's why the return lines at Apple stores are always longer than the purchase lines. People instead should buy higher quality products from companies like Microsoft.

to death, and Apple sells their body parts.

I know their government has been accused of that before, and while I've seen others make the claim that FoxConn is selling organs, I haven't seen actual proof yet. Got the proof to back-up your claim?

Michael Dell told them.

Forgot to add.......

You Apple nuts make me laugh. Always thinking that any criticism HAS to be associated with ANOTHER BRAND NAME.

Wake up. We're not all logo whores like you.

The OP likes to post RW opinion pieces as fact. Last week it was an insignificant scientific study that supposedly "overturned" the IPCC, earlier today it was welfare queens buying lotto tickets, now this...Don't feed the troll.

Just asking

Here, we choose what we do for a living, even if only by default because of not choosing.

I get paid well, far above min. wage. But I have to work long hours in bursts of peak activity. Just like the OP says. I don't like it, but when the dust settles, I'm glad I have the extra money. As for stress, it's stressful, that's for sure. But what is REALLY stressful is being unemployed.

Because of the O.T., I have a chance at being able to retire, which about 15 years ago, I thought wouldn't be possible.

I do what I have to do to take care of myself. I enjoy my job. I get a lot of satisfaction from it. I'm good at it. I'm glad my bosses WANT me to work the hours, rather than someone else.

It depends on your point of view. But I think most successful people work long hours. Bill Gates certainly did. Doctors did all thru school, and for many years in building their career. I worked 7 days a week for a while back a few years ago. A lot of people do this. They won't do it forever. But it's a way to build a future for yourself, while you can.

addressing the issue. We as Americans can and do put pressure on companies that use the exploited labor in third worlds. Do you really think those workers want to live in dorms and devote their current life to working long hours at piss poor wages to make widgets for Americans?

No wages are as low as they are in China because the workers have very few rights! Most people seem to have no clue that the end of child labor practices in America and that the 40 hour work week exists due to the struggle of unions to get some rights.

I refuse to drink Coke because they have gone back to murdering union leaders in Columbia and elsewhere:

http://killercoke.org/

Coke is just one of many companies that are involved with murdering union members. At least 22 union leaders were murdered in Columbia last year:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/26/1020397/-Trumka-cites-murders-of-22-union-leaders-as-reason-for-Obama-to-oppose-trade-deal-with-Colombia

I put in many years of long hours 60-110 hour weeks in my life time. One year as a small business owner I only took off 8 days total all year. There is nothing wrong with long hours and hard work but it has to be for something.

No. Complacency and shoulder shrugging is not an acceptable answer in my eyes. We as Americans have a right and obligation to make sure that ALL people who make goods and services we use are treated with dignity and respect and earn a wage worthy of their labor. All people deserve a living wage INCLUDING Americans!

I don't buy Apple products, but that's because I think Apple is a racket more so than its competitors. America can't compete in wages with many other countries. Even if they get a living wage in China or elsewhere, it's still way below America's living wages because the cost of living there is so low.

The best way I can think of to counter outsourcing and such is to stop the tax advantages given to corporations for outsourcing jobs. That's insane.

But all companies go to where labor is cheapest. It's like water finding the lowest level. So there is no electronics company to buy from that doesn't use what we would call slave labor, is my understanding. As Ross Perot explained when talking about the trade agreement with Mexico, which he said was a very bad idea, if your competitors do it, then sooner or later your corporation has to do it, to stay competitive. Perot's company ended up moving some operations to Mexico years later. I voted for Perot. Did you? If you didn't, you missed the best opportunity to stop these trade agreements with other countries. Clinton won and got the trade agreement thru Congress. The rest is history.

So having to work like a slave is GOOD because it's the only way to earn enough money to live?! Yes master....
More crap from: pull yourself up by the bootstraps, get back to the fields and shut the f-k up.

"And working more, not less, is something that many workers the world over voluntarily choose to do--or have to do to earn enough money to live. And the latter problem is not just limited to China. Many Americans, for example--the folks who are lecturing Chinese about their working conditions--work two or more jobs to make ends meet, despite being paid well more than minimum wage. This hard work, moreover, is especially common in short bursts, when teams are trying to finish important projects, just the way it is at Foxconn."

Not to mention is DOESNT IMPROVE PRODUCTIVITY - that is WO burning people out:

http://www.igda.org/why-crunch-modes-doesnt-work-six-lessons

http://www.alternet.org/visions/154518/why_we_have_to_go_back_to_a_40-hour_work_week_to_keep_our_sanity/?page=entire

to get extra money, whether to add to their savings, or for a vacation, or a new laptop or car, etc.

You don't do it forever. It's in bursts of peak activity, and of course, there will come a time when you're not healthy enough to work those hours. Making hay while you can, is what it's called.

have had to get it and that probably for subsistence level income or maybe scrap together a home or schooling for their kids rather than day dwelling and food for the next meal.

Of course, as the OP shows when it comes to Apple many DU'ers have a blind spot that makes them bipartisan. Here's a more direct way of rephrasing the OP sentiment from several macdailynews commenters....

------------------------------------

http://macdailynews.com/2012/03/30/apple-supplier-foxconn-cuts-working-hours-workers-worry-question-why/

"Business Owner

Friday, March 30, 2012 - 1:12 pm · Reply

You liberals are f*cking pussies!

I personally work over 100 hours per week running my own very successful (run entirely with many Apple products) business and my concentration is not effected at all.

I won’t hire anyone besides the core great employees that we have due to all of the insane liberal made, red tape and extreme anti-business policies. I will find other ways of getting things done before I hire anyone until the liberals back off business.

Try dealing with a government agency being a private business. They absolutely hate private business. They go out of their way to make things difficult while sucking up as many tax dollars as possible and working at as slowly as humanly possible. That’s not to say that there aren’t a few good people working in government jobs but most of them are union lame asses and losers that would never make it in a real world, private business environment!"


------------------------------------

"First 2010, Then 2012 Registered User

Friday, March 30, 2012 - 10:38 am · Reply

Here’s why:

Because someone from far away who thinks they know better, but really doesn’t understand the local needs at all, agitated and then dictated that it be so.

And that, in a nutshell, is why statists like Obama and his dwindling minions fail routinely.

More power and money to the states, less power and money to the centralized federal bureaucracy, and the U.S.A. would prosper beyond your wildest dreams."

------------------------------------

Moe-EE-Sha

Friday, March 30, 2012 - 4:51 pm · Reply

Why do liberals hate the poor Chinese Apple workers so much.

Answer:

They make liberals look like the lazy, POS, parasites that they are. They can’t have hard working, happy Chinese, Apple Factory workers make their liberal takeover talking points not apply. So liberals go in and attack them. Really, really, sick!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------------

Truth Fact

Friday, March 30, 2012 - 4:08 pm ·

You are absolutely the worst. The only thing wrong with healthcare in the US is the government being too involved in it. The numbers the left dreams up to use in their phony propaganda to steal our rights, freedom, and private property are a complete lie. Just like everything they spew. REALLY is always wrong!

Destroy the healthcare industry, oil industry, every industry….. Watch out, they’ll be after Apple soon enough!


------------------------------------

Marty

Saturday, March 31, 2012 - 7:31 am ·

You are a commie if you think that. We were all fine before you libtard masterminds arrived on the show and started destroying everything in your paths like human wrecking balls. The government is the one completely at fault for the healthcare industry costs being higher than they should be. Government and ambulance chasing lawyers.

Healthcre is not a right. The government has no right forcing this on us. I hope no one decides to become a doctor ever because of this. What then? Are you libtards going to start forcing people into what career they have to be in like Russia. Maybe they could make you be the janitor or garbage man.

Socialized medicine sucks. Let insurance companies sell insurance across state lines and ban trip and fall lawyers

------------------------------------

They are on a multitude of sites, post every single talking point they can fit in whether it even remotely relates to the subject at hand or not, and think that it actually makes a difference.

And yes, there are paid posters on teh intrawebs.

Do a search, there are plenty of places that pay posters to troll the blogosphere.

Oh, and the OP using Business Insider as a source is a joke.

Nothing but propaganda from the Ruling Monied Class for peons to read.

Sorry, I guess it's good work if you can get it!

As well as my bosses. We all work bursts of extended hours during "peak" times. I work 24 hour stretches w/o breaks or sleep...hell, I've worked 36 hour stretches w/o breaks or sleep. I don't like it, but at least I get paid O.T. I've made a lot of money on O.T. I've paid off things, added to my savings account for my old age, bought a few items that I would consider luxury items (like a laptop and new bedroom flat panel TV).

Where I work, there are people who routinely volunteer to work O.T. They want to earn as much $ as they can during their healthy, active working years; there will come a time when we are unable to do it.

No breaks or sleep.

What do you do?

Your productivity goes into the toilet after twelve hours on duty, and after eighteen is degraded by close to half.

I'm very experienced, so I seem to be able to get the job done, and done well, even when not at peak brain activity. I'm able to work on a mode where I just plow ahead and do things automatically.

It would be different if I were just sitting around, waiting. But when you're busy, well for me, anyway, I'm able to focus even when tired. I'm determined to finish this thing, then that thing, then this other thing. It's necessary, it's important that it be done right. So I just do it.

Sounds more like you become more accustomed to slavery.

Expenses paid.

Many college students find they do better on tests by staying up all night & cramming, then going to take the test without sleep. Doctors and dentists work many hours during residency or whatever, and it's more than short bursts. ER medical staff work very long hours.

I'm a paralegal in a large law firm. I work on litigation. It's part of the job to have extended hours at times. Sometimes it's unavoidable. Sometimes it's because the lawyers didn't plan ahead.

That's how a lot of things get done in various industries. Through bursts of high intensity work that may last long hours. That's how your doctor got his medical license, and how the nurse at your surgery got to be an operating room nurse. That's how the accountants file all those tax returns in a matter of a few months, but file relatively few the rest of the year.

I'm surprised at the hostility by some about others who work long or hard. Not everyone can or wants to do that. Some are willing, and some jobs require that.

then have the rest of the week off. And be able to do it for a living wage.

I can take time off after extended hours, if I want, but it would have to be my vacation days. It can't be comp time. It's the law.

If it were comp time, they'd have to give me 1 1/2 days off for every 8 hours of O.T.

32 hour would be even better.

requires extended hours sometimes. It's just the way it is. If you can't work extended hours during those times, a person shouldn't be in the business.

I'm a litigation paralegal at a large law firm. When you watch Court TV, realize that someone like me has worked hours before court and after court assembling documents and notebooks for the Judge and all the attorneys, organizing the exhibits, bringing out the blown up exhibits for the jury, etc. And we stay up late or all night preparing for the following day in court. Or it might be just a hearing. If there's a filing deadline, like for a large trial exhibit list, I'm the one who stays up all night preparing that, and the attorneys revise it multiple times. It has to be perfect by teh next morning, ready to file with the court. The exhibits then have to be labeled by a vendor, and scanned to be electronic, and exchanged with the other attorneys shortly. There are many things like that to do in a short time.

Then I may work regular hours for a while, until another emergency comes along. I usu. only resent it when it's not a court deadline, but something that has come up just because an atty wants it done, or he did't do it on time.

It's this way for all trial paralegals and trial lawyers. And sometimes for the secretaries, too. Esp since we work at a large firm with sometimes large cases.

My job is easier than being the lawyer. Ultimately, everything is the lawyer's responsibility. The buck stops there. (Not that he won't blame the paralegal for any mistakes, and he will.)

Last edited Mon Apr 2, 2012, 11:16 PM - Edit history (1)

What is it that you are doing?

Data entry? Brain surgery? Astronaut? Endurance race car driver?

What do you do for a living?

When a trial approaches, there are many deadlines imposed by the rules of procedure and by the court. During those times, we almost always work extended hours. Our cases tend to be large. If I prepare an exhibit list, it might have 1,000 exhibits on it, and the lawyers revise it multiple times. Of course, it might have only a few hundred exhibits on it. Then the exhibits have to be gathered and named electronically, sent to a vendor with exhibit numbers embosssed on the images, and exchanged by a deadline with other counsel. There are many things like that to do before trial. And they have to be as perfect as possible. A deadline cannot be missed.

During a large arbitration/trial, we may have to stay up all night doing things the attorneys have decided they need for the next day's witnesses. They decide on which witnesses will be called, what exhibits they'll use for them, etc. We may have to prepare a set of those exhibits for everyone at the trial...judges and attorneys on the other side. In one case we stayed up all night preparing 13 thick notebooks containing exhibits..each one then has to be manually proofed. It shouldn't have taken that long, but the copy company had made a mistake whcih we had to correct. They have to be as perfect as possible and delivered to the court the next day before the trial begins. I may even be the one to take them, if it's within walking distance. There may be blown up exhibits to take, or audio-visual presentations to have ready. Then we have to be on hand the entire next day, during trial, whether we actually sit in the courtroom or not. Then we have to go get everything at the court that was used that day, and either bring it back to our office or stow it in the courthouse. Then we have to get ready for the next day's witnesses. We will, with any luck, be done by a decent hour like midnight or 1 or 2 a.m., and back at the office by 8 a.m. the next morning. Then we do it again. (We make a point of getting some sleep that second night...we can't go 48 hours without sleep)

These are the things that go on behind the scenes for court cases. When court starts, someone has been preparing for that day in court for hours already, if not the whole night before. That would be me and others like me. But thank goodness, few cases go to the court. Almost everything settles. We also pull extended hours for other reasons, like big meetings with clients or whatever.

but there are things that only the paralegal working on the case can do. Much like it has to be the lawyers whose case it is to do a lot of the things that lawyers do.

We could have 10 people sitting around, but they wouldn't be that helpful, if they haven't worked on the case for a year and have certain skills. In other words, if they weren't the paralegals on the case. It's also hard to find people these days to work long hours.

But we use copy vendors and clerical staff. But only we do the exhibit lists and prepare the exhibits....only someone intimately familiar with the case, and a trusted employee with responsibility on the case, can do those, and things like that.

but they are backwards I suppose.

I don't give a shit how motivating it is, working 24 hours or more is impossible without sleep or even downtime without chemical help. So tell us what you are addicted to.

or pork. I eat processed foods, but not too many of them. I eat fresh fruits every day, without fail. I walk several times a week.

I can't explain it, really. Except that I'm totally focused on what I'm doing, and determined to get it done, and do it well. I'm just that way. I CAN hit a wall, but then I get up, get a Diet Coke, and when I sit down again, my head has cleared, and I push on.

So I guess I do drink some caffeine, but not much. Certainly no coffee or Mountain Dew.

You'd be able to do it, too, if you had to. I don't like it. But I am able to do it. I'm experienced, so that helps. I can push on in an automated mode, if necessary, but a less experienced person wouldn't have that to fall back on.

I've made a LOT of $ on O.T. It has made the difference between being able to retire one day, and not being able to.

The worst thing I can imagine, though, is being unemployed. I wouldn't handle that well at all. I would probably spiral downward into a deep depression. So anything other than that is great for me.

or you are taking some type of major stimulant when you need too. The only other thing I can think of is that you may suffer from bad manic states, some type of OCD, and or Hyperactivity. But I don't like to diagnose such things online.

I have tried it, and I crash, I know of no one who can do it for 36 hours without so much as a lunch break without some type of "help".

What I find ironic is you call yourself a health nut, yet don't value sleep.

Many college students stay up all night cramming for an exam, then take it the next day w/o sleep. They think they actually do better on the tests that way.

I value sleep. But for some reason I am able to focus and work intensely for extended periods of time. Your doctor did that to get his license. That nurse who attended at any surgery you had...she did that to become an operating room nurse. Medical people in E.R.s work very long hours w/o sleep, or getting a catnap. That's how Bill Gates & the other guy developed Microsoft. A lot of people can just do that, and want to do that. If you're interested in what you're doing, that makes a difference. A lot of lawyers did, and do, that.

It doesn't last for a month or anything. They are, like the OP says, bursts of extended hours during peak times. I not only am able to do it, but I do it fairly well.

One reason I'm able to do it is, I think, because I'm healthy to begin with. My blood work is all normal, no high blood pressure or cholesterol or blood sugar. I also sleep really well. I'm one who falls asleep fairly fast when I go to bed, and I sleep straight through the night & wake up without needing an alarm clock in the morning. I sleep soundly. Not always, but usually.

Part of it is, I'm a type when I have a job to do, and I care about it, and it's important, I totally work on it until it's done. It's just part of my job. I'm not crazy about that aspect of it, but that's the way it is.

One time I had to go to a trial out of town. I woke up before 4 a.m., (I packed my car the night before), and drove several hours there to the courthouse (I was petrified...I'd never been to that town, and I have no sense of direction), but I got there before the trial started, got the court organized, exhibits handed out, blown up exhibits toted in, sat there in trial all day attending to my lawyer, then when trial was over for the day, I had to move all the boxes and blown up exhibits to a room in the courthouse, see if the lawyer needed anything for the next day at trial (she did), and then got to the hotel at maybe 9 that night. 17 hour day maybe? But I didn't have to work all night, so I was fresh by the next morning, after eating dinner & falling right to sleep. Not pleasant. But that's what I do for a living. It's pretty interesting, actually. I enjoy what I do. I could do w/o the long hours, but it's required.

Good thing you're banking away. Hang in there!

I can move to a secretarial job, if necessary, where extended hours are not required, or to a different type of job in my field that doesn't require such extreme O.T. I'm hoping to make the change in a couple of years, and maybe even move. Because no one can work those hours indefinitely, esp when s/he gets older. But I'll see what happens. I'm just glad I've been able to keep my job through the recession. So far. I'm still worried.

It wasn't this bad until about 12 years ago, when I started working on larger cases. When I worked on smaller cases (I'm a trial paralegal), the O.T. was only occasional and not extreme.

I'm not saying I like the extended hours. I don't. But that's part of my job, now.

Yes, I have socked away the money for my old age. It has made a huge difference in what my old age financial situation will be. I didn't choose to have that much O.T., but since my job turned out that way, I made sure to save the money. I think I saved every dollar of it, actually. But I get paid well, so I'm lucky that I was able to save it and not need it for something.

We don't use those fancy jets. Don't need 'em. The Chinese do the same thing. They love it. They're hungry, like me.

I also haven't slept since I saw Stayin' Alive in 1978. Don't need it. Sometimes I repair satellites for telecom companies. I just flap a little higher than usual, hold my breath, and navigate with a can of hairspray.

Are you nuts, no seriously, are you nuts? Most businesses, in the States, don't even let workers work that much overtime, because of them being required to pay workers time and a half, something Foxconn probably doesn't have to do. Hell, the closest I ever came to working close to 80 hours a week is when I volunteered to cover for not 1 but 2 coworkers that were sick over a weekend. I worked straight through, and then passed out for two days.

I'm sure in China its different, being paid a crap straight wage, even without anything extra for putting in more than 40 hours, the companies can afford to work you to the bone. But don't pretend that is what the workers would prefer.

People who get paid for extra hours are the lucky ones much less overtime pay.

I used to get OT when I started then they upped my title so they wouldn't have to. But the same job.

And it doesn't matter how much they get paid compared to US workers but now they get paid for the area they are in. As long as they exceed the Chings next door they are wealthier.

I'm sure they were around before that, too.

My personal favorite remains the one I read during the push for NAFTA, when some corporate stooge from the auto industry very thoughtfully explained why it's quite acceptable to pay Mexican workers a tiny fraction of the amount that the same job paid in the states.

See, they didn't *need* all that money. Most of them had no homes, so they didn't need to make mortgage payments. None of them had cars, so they didn't need to make a car payment. Many didn't have electricity, so...

The line described in the linked article is an old chestnut of the genre. Usually goes hand-in-hand with 'they want us there, if we left they'd all starve'.

equating that to more hours is misleading.

inhale

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Apologists are like the children cheering for the schoolyard bully when the bully is fighting with a little kid. Defending the bully is almost as bad as being the bully itself.

Did you hear about the part where Foxconn agreed to raise salaries to make up for the OT they forced the workers to do...oh, and Foxconn even went oevr the national MAXIMUM of hours allowed by law by the Chinese government?

Talk about an apple apologist.