Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:15 PM May 2014

President Obama: "The problem is I don’t have enough votes -- full stop"


President Obama swings Babe Ruth's bat as he tours the National Baseball Hall of Fame


excerpt from remarks by President Obama at DSCC Dinner -- May 23, Chicago, IL:

. . . I need a new Congress. But at a minimum, I’ve got to have a Democratic Senate. And that’s why you’re here. Which leads me to my last point: If, in fact, people agree with us, why is it so hard for us to get a Democratic Senate and a Democratic House? Well, part of it is demographics. I was in Brooklyn with de Blasio -- this is right before he was about to be elected -- and we were coming from this wonderful school that’s training kids in math and science. And we’re driving down Brooklyn and crowds are cheering, and we go into this place to buy some cheesecake and people are hugging me -- and, oh, my uncle just got on Obamacare and it’s terrific. And a woman yells out, what can I do to help? And I said, move to Nebraska! (Laughter.) I don’t need 80 percent of the vote in New York City -- (laughter) -- or Chicago. But Democrats tend to congregate a little more densely, which puts us at a disadvantage in the House. Obviously, the nature of the Senate means that California has the same number of Senate seats as Wyoming. That puts us at a disadvantage. Gerrymandering in many of these states puts us at a disadvantage.

So there are some structural reasons why, despite the fact that Republican ideas are largely rejected by the public, it’s still hard for us to break through. But the second reason is we have a congenital disease, which is we don’t like voting in midterms. Our voters are younger, more minorities, more single women, more working-class folks who are busy and trying to get to work, trying to find work. And oftentimes we opt out during midterms. If we had the same turnout in 2012 that we had had in 2010, I might have lost. Instead, of course, we had a very significant and solid victory.

So this is pretty straightforward -- I need more votes. I need more people voting to reflect our values and what we care about and our stance on the issues, which, in turn, leads to senators and congressman who then vote on behalf of actually getting stuff done. A bunch of you, because you’ve known me for a long time, came up and commiserated while we were taking pictures -- oh, these folks are so mean and there’s always slinging and hurling stones and arrows at you, and all this. And I said, you know what, it turns out -- maybe I’m from Chicago -- I’m a tough guy. It doesn’t really bother me too much.

There is one thing that bothers me, which is when I hear folks saying, oh, you know, if you just play golf with John Boehner more -- (laughter) -- and we’re just trying harder to be more bipartisan, then we’d get more stuff done. That’s not the problem. (Laughter.) On every issue we are more than happy to sit down in reasonable fashion and compromise. The problem is not that we’re too mean or we’re too partisan. The problem is I don’t have enough votes -- full stop.

The first two years, when we had a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate, we had the most productive legislature since the 1960s, since Lyndon Johnson -- more significant, meaningful domestic legislation than any time since Medicare was passed. House Republicans take over and we now have -- you remember Harry Truman with the do-nothing Congress? This is a less productive Congress than the do-nothing Congress. (Laughter.) This Congress makes the do-nothing Congress look like the New Deal. (Laughter.)

So I need everybody to feel a sense of urgency. That’s what we’re here tonight to talk about. And whatever else I say, whatever issues you are concerned about, ultimately it translates into math -- are we turning out voters who, in turn, produce majorities that allow us to advance the values that we care about. Everything else is just talk. And if we don’t feel that sense of urgency in this election, we’re going to have problems. And if we do, then in the next two and half years we can make as much progress as we did the first two years I was in office.


read entire speech: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/05/23/remarks-president-dscc-dinner-chicago-il



Doug Mills ?@dougmillsnyt
President Obama gets breakfast at Valois Cafeteria in Chicago, IL, eggs, bacon & hash browns.. pic.twitter.com/eqAfGVs67B
111 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
President Obama: "The problem is I don’t have enough votes -- full stop" (Original Post) bigtree May 2014 OP
It couldn't be clearer. n/t yallerdawg May 2014 #1
We had the Senate and House from 2007 until 2011 yeoman6987 May 2014 #7
We did not. Skidmore May 2014 #9
And we won't even mention... yallerdawg May 2014 #13
Nobody said super majority yeoman6987 May 2014 #30
You don't really 'control' the senate without a super majority... Blanks May 2014 #40
Sorry, strawman. Reagan was successful. Nixon was successful. Tommymac May 2014 #43
there has NEVER been a sufficient number of republicans willing to bend to progressive legislation bigtree May 2014 #46
If BHO had played his cards right Tommymac May 2014 #52
Obama should have come down hard on the banks and the crimes of the previous JDPriestly May 2014 #63
This is the truth. During PBO's terms the R's have never been willing to work with him or the Dems. bluesbassman May 2014 #54
Sigh, Another Glass Half empty view. Tommymac May 2014 #68
Without an at least somewhat willing opposition party to work with, bluesbassman May 2014 #70
Reagan and Nixon were working with democrats as the opposing party... Blanks May 2014 #60
Don't put words in my mouth please. Tommymac May 2014 #66
Reagan was successful. Nixon was successful. DonCoquixote May 2014 #81
Reagan's and Nixon's Senates didn't filibuster EVERYTHING jmowreader May 2014 #94
The one big difference? yallerdawg May 2014 #98
I'm going to disagree with this statement jmowreader May 2014 #105
Huh? Reagan had to raise taxes 3 times because of Congress. Nixon had to start the EPA Recursion May 2014 #107
Please stop promoting this lie Sheepshank May 2014 #16
No, we had it for less than a month. The Senate required a supermajority to overcome pnwmom May 2014 #41
Again, 2009-2011 was the most productive Congress in *decades* Recursion May 2014 #106
Obama's right--we need more Democrats to get out and vote. Louisiana1976 May 2014 #2
He's not wrong. n/t TDale313 May 2014 #3
If moderate and conservate Dems show up for the midterms, we will win back the House. Rex May 2014 #4
If the Far Left stops joining the Republicans to depress the vote by also telling them VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #10
Funny, I've never had a friend in RL think that way...I've only seen 3 or 4 people here type that. Rex May 2014 #12
and no wonder they don't..the ones who present themselves as the "smartest ones in class" VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #15
I am always wary of anyone telling me 'both parties are the same'. Rex May 2014 #18
Typically yes... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #20
I agree, and since I have seen people type it here with my own eyes. Rex May 2014 #24
But what we are really talking about motivating is the proverbial "mushy middle" VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #27
True, we need the mushy middle not to be so flippant. Rex May 2014 #29
They sure as shit have no problem trying "shame" everyone else for voting for Democrats VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #31
I have a hard time believeing someone is a Democrat if they shame others for voting D. Rex May 2014 #34
Well some are not really Democrats thats for sure....they just have no where else to go... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #73
Maybe the president ought to stop colluding with House Republicans... grasswire May 2014 #35
Another example ^^^ VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #80
It's absurd to think these non-voters are reading or listening to... WorseBeforeBetter May 2014 #78
I didn't mean THEM..... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #82
Ok, so it's not the "far left" media influencing these non-voters, it's... WorseBeforeBetter May 2014 #87
Are there DU'ers that are farther Left than you are? VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #88
I don't keep tabs on the left-ness of my fellow DUers. WorseBeforeBetter May 2014 #93
Of course you don't....figures... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #95
What letter must they wear in their shame? WorseBeforeBetter May 2014 #97
I have been doing that all along....this is in conjunction VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #99
If you think "shaming" those who criticize Obama Administration policies... WorseBeforeBetter May 2014 #100
We elected O with a majority in the House and a Super in the Senate... Demo_Chris May 2014 #5
revisionist doo doo bigtree May 2014 #8
+1 Rex May 2014 #26
exactly...+++1 VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #28
+1 Great link bigtree. sheshe2 May 2014 #65
+1 uponit7771 May 2014 #103
Instead of revising history...how about a little light reading Sheepshank May 2014 #19
See #9. Skidmore May 2014 #22
Marlarkey.... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #23
Yeah revisionist history is sad. Rex May 2014 #25
Yet Obamacare saved your life... JaneyVee May 2014 #72
Apparently that wore off really quick... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #74
Obama literally saved his life and they still complain. JaneyVee May 2014 #75
I know right? Even literally saving your very life is not good enough for some folks! VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #76
I feel the same way. 840high May 2014 #101
"Enthusiasms, enthusiasms......" Guy Whitey Corngood May 2014 #6
I simply do not believe any Third Way politician ... 1000words May 2014 #11
I think you're right about governing bigtree May 2014 #17
+11111111 Tommymac May 2014 #44
Your Honor....example 3! VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #83
President Obama said Leme May 2014 #14
In this debate fredamae May 2014 #21
In 2010 we tried to give him Democrats who would support his agenda. bvar22 May 2014 #32
The writing was on the wall a few years earlier ... 1000words May 2014 #33
.. and even before that in Minnesota. bvar22 May 2014 #36
Didn't Lamont win and didn't Obama back him in the general and didn't he still lose? Drunken Irishman May 2014 #39
Bush got what he wanted without 60 republican votes bigtree May 2014 #37
Bush had the Will of the People behind him. Tommymac May 2014 #45
check the polls bigtree May 2014 #48
But he lost the Trust of The People. Tommymac May 2014 #58
Lost the will of the people and re-elected JoePhilly May 2014 #67
Bush also passed almost none of his agenda after 2003 Recursion May 2014 #108
Oh Really? bvar22 May 2014 #110
So, had he only backed Lincoln's opponent in Arkansas, everything would've been fine? Drunken Irishman May 2014 #38
^^^This^^^ Seeking Serenity May 2014 #49
"destined to be unfulfilled" bvar22 May 2014 #56
That is what WE want to know. bvar22 May 2014 #53
There's not THAT much organized labor in Arkansas Seeking Serenity May 2014 #55
Bill Halter was endorsed and funded by NATIONAL Labor Unions among others. bvar22 May 2014 #57
I'm sorry, but that just wasn't realistic. Seeking Serenity May 2014 #62
It was realistic enough to scare the White House into spending a BUNCH of money.. bvar22 May 2014 #71
Who knows? Maybe they thought she was the best to keep the seat... Drunken Irishman May 2014 #77
if they don't know that by now they never will (and they DO know it) MisterP May 2014 #51
It proves Blanche Lincoln was working for, not against BO when she dragged her feet on ACA. GoneFishin May 2014 #85
BINGO!!! bvar22 May 2014 #111
it might help if Obama were actually a Progressive nikto May 2014 #42
Obama had plenty of Political Coin because The Will of the People supported him Tommymac May 2014 #47
Nailed It. bvar22 May 2014 #50
Indeed he did Oilwellian May 2014 #64
What a steaming pile of pie in the sky horse shit. phleshdef May 2014 #90
+ a bazillion Bobbie Jo May 2014 #102
+1 uponit7771 May 2014 #104
Okay, straight from the horse's mouth, and in a nutshell. QuestForSense May 2014 #59
Obama is so right. I wish I could do something to help. JDPriestly May 2014 #61
Meh. You get the votes for what you believe in. morningfog May 2014 #69
Two follow-up questions for the president Doctor_J May 2014 #79
you know his position on those issues, but even if he agreed with your positions bigtree May 2014 #84
But if he is going to enact a Republican agenda, and everyone knows that, the 2008 voters Doctor_J May 2014 #86
republican agenda? bigtree May 2014 #89
What else would you call it? Doctor_J May 2014 #91
I'd have to shut one eye and turn my head halfway around to see that as his entire agenda bigtree May 2014 #92
Plus a million Hekate May 2014 #96
I can think of 100 captions for that pic 4_TN_TITANS May 2014 #109
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
7. We had the Senate and House from 2007 until 2011
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:37 PM
May 2014

How could we have lost it? The President could have done so much those 3 years.......So frustrating that they voters failed the President that year.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
9. We did not.
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:44 PM
May 2014

You may want some detailed analysis into this Republican canard. An article for you.



http://factleft.com/2012/01/31/the-myth-of-democratic-super-majority/

Written on January 31, 2012 at 3:25 am by elfish
The Myth of Democratic Super Majority.
Filed under Congress, Politics, Recommended10 comments
One of the standard Republican talking points is that the Democrats had a filibuster-proof, super majority for two years between 2008 and 2010. This talking point is usually trotted out when liberals complain that the Republicans filibustered virtually every piece of legislation proposed by Obama or the Democrats over that period of time.

The implication is that Democrats had ample opportunity to pass legislation and that the reason they didn’t pass more legislation doesn’t have anything to do with the Republicans. The Truth is that the Democrats only had a filibuster-proof majority for 24 working days during that period. Here are the details:

To define terms, a Filibuster-Proof Majority or Super Majority is the number of votes required to overcome a filibuster in the Senate. According to current Senate rules, 60 votes are required to overcome a filibuster.

Here is a time-line of the events after the 2008 election:

more

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
13. And we won't even mention...
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:49 PM
May 2014

the Blue Dogs and the DINOs who screwed up every piece of legislation that did squeak through.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
40. You don't really 'control' the senate without a super majority...
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:05 PM
May 2014

When you said control - that implies filibuster proof. It seems like there were a couple of months in 2009 when the democrats had a super majority in the senate. Certainly, they didn't 'control' congress for several years.

Besides - congress doesn't typically pass laws effective immediately. So the positive effects of the 2009-2011 legislative session weren't in effect when republicans took over the house in 2011.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
43. Sorry, strawman. Reagan was successful. Nixon was successful.
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:15 PM
May 2014

Both had a hostile Congress. How could they succeed without a 'super majority'?

Because they both had the political capital and the will of the people behind them, and they knew how to play the game holding that hand.

BHO could have played the same game; after the 2008 election he had more political capital and support from the majority of the People than either of the 2 bozo's above did - but he choose a different path.

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
46. there has NEVER been a sufficient number of republicans willing to bend to progressive legislation
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:22 PM
May 2014

. . . on the other hand, there has regularly been a good chunk of our own party's legislators willing to bend to conservative republican initiatives.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
52. If BHO had played his cards right
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:33 PM
May 2014

he would not have lost the House but increased the Dem majority, and would have gotten his 'super majority' in the Senate in 2010.

Because of his "Hope and Change" campaign in '08 He had more Political Capital with The People than any President since FDR.

Instead he pissed away that Political Capital supporting a 3rd Way Agenda.

Truly astute politicians can find a way.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
63. Obama should have come down hard on the banks and the crimes of the previous
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:58 PM
May 2014

administration. Forgiving torturers while you jail marijuana growers says a lot about your priorities. It does not win you respect or trust.

bluesbassman

(19,379 posts)
54. This is the truth. During PBO's terms the R's have never been willing to work with him or the Dems.
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:35 PM
May 2014

That is a well documented fact. During Nixon's, Reagan's, hell even Bush the Lesser's terms, Democrats have worked and compromised with the Administration to get things done. Republicans have not given that same courtesy, and in fact have done everything they can to stymie Administration policy, more often than not to the detriment of their own constituency.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
68. Sigh, Another Glass Half empty view.
Fri May 23, 2014, 06:19 PM
May 2014

If BHO had done half of what he promised to The People who voted for him in 2008, we would not be having this discussion as 2010 would have played out much differently.

His actions de-energized his base. Without that active and trusting base he could not hold the big political stick that he may have used to change things. He had a glass that was 75% full but did not drink from it.

bluesbassman

(19,379 posts)
70. Without an at least somewhat willing opposition party to work with,
Fri May 23, 2014, 06:29 PM
May 2014

his political capital had limited effect. I agree that PBO could have done things differently/better, but it's also a fact that the Republicans in the House and Senate did everything they could to derail as much as they could. Has nothing to do with seeing the glass as "half full" but rather understanding the realities of what has taken place.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
60. Reagan and Nixon were working with democrats as the opposing party...
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:51 PM
May 2014

Let me guess. You don't think there's any difference between the two parties.

Obamacare was developed by a right-wing think tank - yet the republicans consistently oppose it. The senate minority leader made it his mission to make the president a one term president. That sounds to me like - you either have a super majority or you have nothing.

What do you think he (Obama) could have done better. What would that 'different path' have looked like - so that he could achieve (in your mind) a presidency as great as Reagan and Nixon.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
66. Don't put words in my mouth please.
Fri May 23, 2014, 06:12 PM
May 2014

I never said or implied that the Presidency's of Nixon and Reagan were great - only that they were effective. I abhor both men having lived through those times. But saying they were effective is not the same as praising them.

The idea of needing not just a majority but a super majority to get things done is patently false. There are methods that successful innovative politicians in the past have used to get things done. I am not a politician so I cannot name what those would be - if I could I would not be promoting my views on a Blog but out there in the political world fighting the fight myself, lol.

I never said that there was no difference between the 2 major parties. There are stark and obvious differences as far as Social issues are concerned - on the Financial policy side of things not so much.

I don't call it Obamacare - it is the ACA. It is good as far as it goes, it and the expansion of Medicare are good things that have helped millions of People - but it is still just Health Insurance Reform, not true HealthCare Reform. In the US, Health Care needs to be defined as a Right - not a privilege. BHO could have gone that route - but instead he took Single Payer off the table before the debate even started and abandoned The Public Option without a real fight.

If BHO had done at least some of what he promised in 2008 (especially holding the Bankers accountable for their excesses, and using his bully pulpit to get a real bailout for Homeowners along with the Big Banks) we would not be having this conversation as he would have gained those majorities in 2010.

In my mind the last truly Democratic President was Jimmy Carter - though I actively worked for ans supported financially all Dem campaigns from 1976 until today. Just because I criticize them does not mean I am not a Democrat.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
81. Reagan was successful. Nixon was successful.
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:15 PM
May 2014

Becuase they representedtherchwhomadedanedsuretheought the media, and made sure that anying they did was considered Golden, even if, and especially if, it was right wing crap. Even a lot of his party wanted to see him fail, either because they were some who wanted a farther left type, or more often, the PUMAS who as me speak are ensuring Hillary is crowned Imperatrix de Pax Americana.

jmowreader

(50,567 posts)
94. Reagan's and Nixon's Senates didn't filibuster EVERYTHING
Fri May 23, 2014, 08:08 PM
May 2014

The one Obama has will filibuster Ronald Reagan's birthday card. They filibuster things they LIKE.

jmowreader

(50,567 posts)
105. I'm going to disagree with this statement
Sat May 24, 2014, 04:04 AM
May 2014

The big difference between the Congress Reagan had, the Congress Nixon had and the Congress Obama has is simple: the minority party in the Reagan and Nixon Congresses didn't decide, the day after either man was elected, that their only purpose in life was to cause the presidency to fail. The Senate Minority Leader in Obama's Congress, Mitch McConnell, put it very simply: We are here to make sure Obama is a one-term president. That is all they wanted to do and all they DID do the first four years of his presidency. Unfortunately, they seem hell-bent on ensuring he doesn't win his third term, seemingly not realizing the Constitution says he can't have one anyway. (To know this, they would have had to read more than the Second and Tenth Amendments and I don't think they have.) The few things Obama managed to do, he got through Congress either (1) in the very short period of time when the Democrats held a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate or (2) through complex parliamentary maneuvering.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
107. Huh? Reagan had to raise taxes 3 times because of Congress. Nixon had to start the EPA
Sat May 24, 2014, 04:14 AM
May 2014

I don't know where you get the idea that Reagan's terms were some sort of triumph of conservatism; he had to compromise constantly.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
16. Please stop promoting this lie
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:52 PM
May 2014
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/fleeting-illusory-supermajority
Wallace believes the Dems’ “filibuster proof majority in the Senate” lasted 24 months. In reality, he’s off by 20 months, undermining the entire thesis pushed so aggressively by Republicans.


The whole timeline f events is at the link, but finishes with the statment I added above...4 Months, 16 weeks is all there was.

pnwmom

(109,009 posts)
41. No, we had it for less than a month. The Senate required a supermajority to overcome
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:08 PM
May 2014

their constant filibusters, and most of that time we didn't have 60 votes.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
106. Again, 2009-2011 was the most productive Congress in *decades*
Sat May 24, 2014, 04:13 AM
May 2014

It beat most of LBJ's time, for that matter.

I know there's a collective liberal amnesia about exactly how much got passed, but you're going to have to get over that at some point.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
4. If moderate and conservate Dems show up for the midterms, we will win back the House.
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:25 PM
May 2014

It is just that simple.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
10. If the Far Left stops joining the Republicans to depress the vote by also telling them
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:44 PM
May 2014

"there is no difference between the two parties" and hyperbolically telling them that Hillary Clinton et al are also Republicans or super scary in some other way..... then perhaps we could get them out to vote!

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
12. Funny, I've never had a friend in RL think that way...I've only seen 3 or 4 people here type that.
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:48 PM
May 2014

No, it is a fact that moderates and conservative dems stayed home in 2010 and lost us the House. Sorry Charlie.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
15. and no wonder they don't..the ones who present themselves as the "smartest ones in class"
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:51 PM
May 2014

telling them that "it doesn't make a difference"...

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
18. I am always wary of anyone telling me 'both parties are the same'.
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:53 PM
May 2014

They usually turn out to be libertarians.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
24. I agree, and since I have seen people type it here with my own eyes.
Fri May 23, 2014, 04:00 PM
May 2014

I can only surmise their agenda. To say both parties are the same, is to admit to a certain bias imo. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that makes that claim.

Still, we need moderates and conservative Dems to show up in large numbers at the polls...(liberals are a solid 90% voting block) however if they listen to idiots that say the parties are the same, then they really don't pay attention or they already made up their minds and no amount of evidence will sway them otherwise.

We need to take back the House. The GOP is crippling this country daily with their hatred of the common person.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
27. But what we are really talking about motivating is the proverbial "mushy middle"
Fri May 23, 2014, 04:07 PM
May 2014

its the people that either party HAVE to woo in order to win. When they vote they vote for whom they think are the "winners". If they hear those presenting themselves as Lefties saying things like that then they are justified in NOT voting at all.

I am still thinking that Randi Rhodes is so brilliant. Her final advice was to "shame them". Stop accepting the "malarkey" that these fools spout....being so polite....shame them! They vote Democrat because they have got no candidates themselves....yet they constantly piss and moan while pretending that THEY are the true Progressives because they vote Democrat. Lets stop putting up with their bullshit and call them what they are....Libertarians in sheeps clothing. If you cannot see the difference in the parties at this point.....how else can you explain it? We have to start shaming them! Then and only then do we look like winners and the Mushy Middle will want to be a part of that movement.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
29. True, we need the mushy middle not to be so flippant.
Fri May 23, 2014, 04:13 PM
May 2014

Like I said, most of the people that espouse that 'both parties are teh same' are NOT the Left. Libertarianism is so far from the Left that calling them the Left is like saying the GOP is the party of equality.

The far left is Marxism and socialism...something completely different from libertarianism. Not even close in the animal kingdom.

Shaming libertarians should be a full time job!

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
31. They sure as shit have no problem trying "shame" everyone else for voting for Democrats
Fri May 23, 2014, 04:25 PM
May 2014

then they turn around and vote for Democrats anyway because Republicans suck and they know it....then they piss and moan some more....but never ever presenting any alternative candidates of their own! They think THEY are the sole arbiters of shaming!

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
34. I have a hard time believeing someone is a Democrat if they shame others for voting D.
Fri May 23, 2014, 04:42 PM
May 2014

They sound more like Republicans, but I guess that is just me.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
73. Well some are not really Democrats thats for sure....they just have no where else to go...
Fri May 23, 2014, 06:49 PM
May 2014

because they got nuttin'.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
35. Maybe the president ought to stop colluding with House Republicans...
Fri May 23, 2014, 04:46 PM
May 2014

....to WEAKEN legislation that Democrats crafted. That's a great way to GOTV, not. Collude with Republicans to WEAKEN legislation against the expressed wishes of duly elected Democratic representatives. Not.

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
78. It's absurd to think these non-voters are reading or listening to...
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:06 PM
May 2014

"far left" media. None of them have heard of Hamsher, West, Smiley, Goodman, et al.


 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
82. I didn't mean THEM.....
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:16 PM
May 2014

what are YOU telling YOUR friends and family about Democrats and President Obama huh?

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
87. Ok, so it's not the "far left" media influencing these non-voters, it's...
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:34 PM
May 2014

DUers who *may* have criticized Obama (and Democrats in general), hence the low turnout in 2010?

Huh, indeed.

The 2010 non-voters voted for Obama in 2012. Why didn't they turn out in 2010? Why were they influenced by these mythical anti-Obama negative forces in 2010, and not in 2012?

My family and friends are "run-to-the-polls" voters, some even work the polls, so, what else ya got?

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
88. Are there DU'ers that are farther Left than you are?
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:43 PM
May 2014

Do you constantly criticize Democrats while never having a single complimentary thing to say about them?.....Then YOU too could be the Far Left I am talking about...

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
93. I don't keep tabs on the left-ness of my fellow DUers.
Fri May 23, 2014, 08:06 PM
May 2014

I don't keep tabs on race, either, but let's not open *that* can o' worms.

Even if someone suggests Obama is the anti-Christ, why did so many voters believe the negativity in 2010, but not 2012 when he was given a second term? It doesn't make sense to suggest these 2010 non-voters were influenced by bad-mouthing of the president.

Midterms aren't as sexy as presidential elections. That's one reason they don't vote. Why did they miss the message that Obama needed a Democratic congress to advance his agenda? No magic wand, civics lesson, yada yada...

November is right around the corner. What's being done to get them to vote?

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
95. Of course you don't....figures...
Fri May 23, 2014, 08:19 PM
May 2014

What am I doing? First of all I am shaming those who criticize the Democrats while never having a complimentary word to say about them on a Democratic Forum....who call nearly all Democratic candidates Republicans or "Third Way" etc.....meanwhile calling themselves Democrats!

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
97. What letter must they wear in their shame?
Fri May 23, 2014, 08:48 PM
May 2014

Scarlet ... ?

Let us know when you get to the part about educating voters, registering voters, and driving voters to the polls. Just to name a few that might have more of an impact on Obama's agenda than *punishing* DUers in the town square.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
99. I have been doing that all along....this is in conjunction
Fri May 23, 2014, 09:05 PM
May 2014

one is not prohibitive of the other is it? I never said it was the ONLY thing I do did I? It is just what I was doing when you asked the question....

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
100. If you think "shaming" those who criticize Obama Administration policies...
Fri May 23, 2014, 09:08 PM
May 2014

is good use of your time, knock yourself out. But I'm pretty sure you're not changing any "hearts and minds," sorta like Eye-raq.

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
5. We elected O with a majority in the House and a Super in the Senate...
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:31 PM
May 2014

It simply doesn't get any better. He used that power to bail out Wall Street bonus checks (literally) along with a whole slew of absolutely heinous anti-progressive measures and appointments. At this point, after six years of deceptions, if Obama told me it was sunny I would reach for an umbrella. He doesn't inspire me to vote, his every speech is a reminder of why I shouldn't bother.

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
8. revisionist doo doo
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:38 PM
May 2014

Last edited Fri May 23, 2014, 08:25 PM - Edit history (1)

. . . you didn't give him a filibuster-proof Congress, so it's sophistry to pretend like he had carte-blanche with the legislature to do whatever he pleased.

In fact, if Congress had acted on the public investments the President proposed, he would have accomplished much more. As it stood, President Obama's 'Stimulus Act' lifted at least 7 million people out of poverty.

from interview with Michael Grunwald, Time magazine correspondent who published The New New Deal: The Hidden Story of Change in the Obama Era, an account of President Barack Obama's stimulus bill:

GRUNWALD:

____ The Obama team thought a lot about the New Deal while they were putting the stimulus together, but times have changed since the New Deal. The Hoover Dam put 5,000 Americans to work with shovels. A comparable project today would only require a few hundred workers with heavy equipment . . ..

The New Deal was a journey, an era, an aura. The Recovery Act was just a bill on Capitol Hill.

Yet its aid to victims of the Great Recession lifted at least 7 million people out of poverty and made 32 million poor people less poor. It built power lines and sewage plants and fire stations, just like the New Deal. It refurbished a lot of New Deal parks and train stations and libraries.

Most of the money in the stimulus went to unsexy stuff designed to prevent a depression and ease the pain of the recession: aid to help states avoid drastic cuts in public services and public employees; unemployment benefits, food stamps, and other assistance for victims of the downturn; and tax cuts for 95 percent of American workers. And the money that did flow into public works went more toward fixing stuff that needed fixing — aging pipes, dilapidated train stations, my beloved Everglades — than building new stuff.

In its first year, the stimulus financed 22,000 miles of road improvements, and only 230 miles of new roads. There were good reasons for that. Repairs tend to be more shovel-ready than new projects, so they pump money into the economy faster. They also pass the do-no-harm test. (New sprawl roads make all kind of problems worse.) And they are fiscally responsible. Repairing roads reduces maintenance backlogs and future deficits; building roads add to maintenance backlogs and future deficits.

The stimulus included $27 billion to computerize our pen-and-paper health care system, which should reduce redundant tests, dangerous drug interactions and fatalities caused by doctors with chicken-scratch handwriting. It doubled our renewable power generation; it essentially launched our transition to a low-carbon economy. It provided a new model for government spending — with unprecedented transparency, unprecedented scrutiny, and unprecedented competition for the cash . . .

read more: http://www.tampabay.com/news/perspective/what-the-stimulus-worked/1246202

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
19. Instead of revising history...how about a little light reading
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:55 PM
May 2014

filibusterproof timeline is available in all sorts of places, but here, I'll make it easy for you.


http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/fleeting-illusory-supermajority

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
23. Marlarkey....
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:58 PM
May 2014

I guess you expected everything to be fixed in the moment he walked in the door.

(And per my previous posts I give you Prime Example #1...I would like to enter this into evidence Your Honor)

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
25. Yeah revisionist history is sad.
Fri May 23, 2014, 04:06 PM
May 2014

Agree with ya there. Obama has had to work against a hostile House of Representatives since day ONE!

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
74. Apparently that wore off really quick...
Fri May 23, 2014, 06:50 PM
May 2014

less than 24 hours later...back to pissing and moaning and revisionist history! Not hypocritical AT ALL!

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
76. I know right? Even literally saving your very life is not good enough for some folks!
Fri May 23, 2014, 06:53 PM
May 2014

Saving your life and still cannot stop telling lies about the man!

 

1000words

(7,051 posts)
11. I simply do not believe any Third Way politician ...
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:44 PM
May 2014

will govern from anywhere near the left, regardless of Congressional makeup.

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
17. I think you're right about governing
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:53 PM
May 2014

. . . how one votes? It depends.

But, I think you are correct, in that these conservative and moderate candidates usually only feel the need to give fealty to the right-wing and regularly give progressive issues short shrift or the back of their hand.

 

Leme

(1,092 posts)
14. President Obama said
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:50 PM
May 2014

" On every issue we are more than happy to sit down in reasonable fashion and compromise".
-
Not what I want. Many times I don't want a President to compromise.

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
21. In this debate
Fri May 23, 2014, 03:57 PM
May 2014

I also defend PBO.
He has the shittiest congress ever...imagine where we'd be now if FDR had to deal with the same congress.
As I understand it, there was a Whole 72 days the Dems actually had a majority of members in both chambers--that did not/does not mean diddly when "some" Dems vote with the GOP-the Senate was Never filibuster proof -
In spite of all that during those years Pelosi/House did deliver a Lot of good stuff.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
32. In 2010 we tried to give him Democrats who would support his agenda.
Fri May 23, 2014, 04:29 PM
May 2014

You will NEVER guess who stopped us.

The Arkansas Democratic Primary of 2010 was a heart breaking eye opener for the Grass Roots and Organized LABOR. We were given a Look Behind the Curtain,
and it wasn't very pretty.

[font size=3]We did EVERYTHING right in Arkansas in 2010.
We did EXACTLY what the White House asked us to do to "give the President Progressives in Congress that would work with him."[/font]

We organized and supported Democratic Lt Governor Bill Halter, the Pro-LABOR/ Pro-Health Care challenger to DINO Obstructionist Blanche Lincoln's Senate seat.
Halter was:

* Polling BETTER against the Republicans in the General,

*was popular in Arkansas in his OWN right,

*had an Up & Running Political machine,

* had a track record of winning elections (Lt. Governor)

*Had the full backing of Organized LABOR and The Grass Roots activists

*was handing Blanche her Anti-LABOR ass

...and we were WINNING!

Guess what happened.

The White House stepped in at the last minute to save Blanche's failing primary campaign with an Oval Office Endorsement of The Wicked Witch that Wrecked the Obama Agenda who was actually campaigning at that time as the one who had killed the Public Option!!!

Adding insult to injury, the White House sent Bill Clinton back to Arkansas on a state-wide Campaign/Fund Raising Tour for Blanche,
focusing on the areas with high Black Populations, and bashing Organized LABOR and "Liberals" at every opportunity.

For those of us who had worked hard to give President Obama Progressive Democrats who would work with him, it was especially difficult to watch his smiling Oval Office Endorsement for DINO Blanche Lincoln which played 24/7 on Arkansas TV the week before the runoff Primary election.

White House steps in to rescue Lincoln’s Primary Campaign in Arkansas

"So what did the Democratic Party establishment do when a Senator who allegedly impedes their agenda faced a primary challenger who would be more supportive of that agenda? They engaged in full-scale efforts to support Blanche Lincoln.

* Bill Clinton traveled to Arkansas to urge loyal Democrats to vote for her, bashing Liberal groups for good measure.

*Obama recorded an ad for Lincoln which, among other things, were used to tell African-American primary voters that they should vote for her because she works for their interests.

*The entire Party infrastructure lent its support and resources to Lincoln — a Senator who supposedly prevents Democrats from doing all sorts of Wonderful, Progressive Things which they so wish they could do but just don’t have the votes for.

<snip>

What happened in this race also gives the lie to the insufferable excuse we’ve been hearing for the last 18 months from countless Obama defenders: namely, if the Senate doesn’t have 60 votes to pass good legislation, it’s not Obama’s fault because he has no leverage over these conservative Senators. It was always obvious what an absurd joke that claim was; the very idea of The Impotent, Helpless President, presiding over a vast government and party apparatus, was laughable. But now, in light of Arkansas, nobody should ever be willing to utter that again with a straight face.

Back when Lincoln was threatening to filibuster health care if it included a public option, the White House could obviously have said to her: if you don’t support a public option, not only will we not support your re-election bid, but we’ll support a primary challenger against you. Obama’s support for Lincoln did not merely help; it was arguably decisive, as The Washington Post documented today:"

<much more>

http://www.salon.com/2010/06/10/lincoln_6/


After the White House and Party Leadership had spent a truck full of money torpedoing the Primary challenge of a Pro-LABOR Democrat for Lincoln's Senate seat, the Party support for Lincoln evaporated for the General Election, and as EVERYBODY had predicted, Lincoln lost badly giving that Senate seat to a Republican virtually uncontested in the General Election.

Don't you find it "interesting" that the Party Establishment and conservative Power Brokers would spend all that money in a Democratic Primary to make sure that their candidate won, and then leave Their Winner dangling without support in the General Election?

Many Grass Roots Activists working for a better government concluded that the current Democratic Party Leadership preferred to GIVE this Senate Seat to a Big Business Republican rather than taking the risk that a Pro-LABOR Democrat might win it, and it was difficult to argue with them.
This was greatly reinforced by the Insults & Ridicule to LABOR & The Grass Roots from the White House after their Primary "victory" over Organized LABOR & the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary.

When the supporters of Pro-LABOR Lt Gov Bill Halter asked the White House WHY they had chosen to throw their full support behind Lincoln at the last minute, rescuing her failing campaign, the only answer was ridicule and insults.

Ed Schultz sums up my feeling perfectly in the following clip.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/ed-schultz-if-it-wasnt-labor-barack-obama-

So what did the White House gain by Beating Down Labor and the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary?
We don't know.
The White House has never responded to our questions with an explanation, only insults.
To date, the White House has refused to answer our questions,
or issue an apology for their taunts and ridicule of Organized LABOR and the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary.


"We never had 60 votes" sounds like a good excuse,
but Bush NEVER had 60 votes,
and got almost everything he wanted,
including approval for 2 unnecessary WARS financed Off-the-Books.


[font color=white]......[/font][font size=4]Obama's Army for “CHANGE”, Jan. 21, 2009[/font]

[font color=white].....................[/font][font size=4]"Oh, What could have been."[/font]


bvar22

(39,909 posts)
36. .. and even before that in Minnesota.
Fri May 23, 2014, 04:49 PM
May 2014

The DSCC and the DCCC has done MORE to thwart the will of local Democrats
than any Republican Organization.
They will use National Donations to influence local Primaries so the the Chamber of Commerce, Business Friendly Conservative DLC Democrat wins.

If you consider yourself a Liberal or FDR/LBJ Democrat,
never, EVER donate to the DSCC or DCCC.
They WILL use your Working Class money AGAINST your Working Class Interests.

If anyone wonders HOW the Democratic Party became so Anti-Working Class Conservative, look no further.

BTW: The above speech was delivered to the DSCC.
(Progressives & Liberals need not apply)

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
39. Didn't Lamont win and didn't Obama back him in the general and didn't he still lose?
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:03 PM
May 2014

What the hell does Obama supporting Lieberman in the primary have anything to do with this? If anything, bringing up Connecticut proves just how questionable your point is - as nothing changed. Lamont won the primary and still lost the general - by a sizable margin!

So, even if Obama had supported the primary challenge of Lamont, and Clinton did and the DNC did, what changes? Lamont still beats Lieberman, Lieberman still runs in the general and still wins.

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
37. Bush got what he wanted without 60 republican votes
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:00 PM
May 2014

. . . because he benefited from a sufficient number of republicrats to overcome filibusters on conservative-oriented legislation.

Conversely, there hasn't ever been a similar number of republicans willing to bend to Democratic initiatives.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
45. Bush had the Will of the People behind him.
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:20 PM
May 2014

So did Nixon and Reagan.

That Will can overcome any legislative tricks such as filibusters if the cards are played correctly.

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
48. check the polls
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:25 PM
May 2014

. . . republicans are acting right now against the 'will of the people'. If that was the standard, Obama is winning that debate.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
58. But he lost the Trust of The People.
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:48 PM
May 2014

He may be ahead in polls but without that Trust he has the support of a skeptical population, a much weaker position politically than having the enthusiastic support he had in '08.

He left the People behind and lost their full trust in his first term by abandoning most of the planks of the platform he ran on - "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."

I stipulate that BHO has done good things, more than a rethug would have done, such as the ACA, and supporting Immigration Reform.

But, for example, his support of the TPP and TAFTA, not using his bully pulpit and firmly speaking out in favor of Net Neutrality and reclassifying the ISP's, continuing the War on Drugs despite the obvious Will of the People to end it, supporting the Surveillance State, keeping Guantanamo open, not running a transparent WH, are all things that have drained his Political Piggy Bank.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
67. Lost the will of the people and re-elected
Fri May 23, 2014, 06:15 PM
May 2014

in near landslide fashion.

How does that work?

Reagan and Bush got cooperation from Democrats because Democrats actually want to govern.

Republicans can obstruct everything because they do not care about governing.
They are perfectly happy with a do nothing government.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
108. Bush also passed almost none of his agenda after 2003
Sat May 24, 2014, 04:16 AM
May 2014

The things that did pass, Medicare Part D and NCLB, were triangulations worthy of Bill Clinton.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
110. Oh Really?
Sat May 24, 2014, 11:31 AM
May 2014
"Bush got what he wanted without 60 republican votes because he benefited from a sufficient number of republicrats to overcome filibusters on conservative-oriented legislation."


And that is WHY Organized LABOR and the Grass Roots attempted to replace a DINO "republicrat" (Blanche Lincoln) with an actual Pro-LABOR Democrat,
but GUESS WHO came to town with national party Money and rescued the "Repubicrat".

THAT is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!


You will know them by their WORKS!


 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
38. So, had he only backed Lincoln's opponent in Arkansas, everything would've been fine?
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:01 PM
May 2014

Is that what you're saying here? Is that the proof we blew it in 2010 because Obama didn't throw his full weight behind a primary battle in a state that was likely lost anyway?

I love how you mention how Bill Halter polled better than Lincoln.

Halter trailed in every poll against Boozman that election season - and almost entirely by double-digits:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/21/10-ar-sen-ge-bovh_n_727657.html

The best he ever did was from a poll done by Daily KOS that showed him down 5. Every other independent poll showed him trailing between 7 and 27 points and an average deficit of 17 points - which wasn't dramatically different from the outcome we eventually witnessed in November.

There was never ever 'what could have been' with that seat. It was lost. Regardless if Halter won the primary or not.

Seeking Serenity

(2,840 posts)
49. ^^^This^^^
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:28 PM
May 2014

I live here. Halter was a better promise than Lincoln (particularly from a DU perspective), but it was a promise destined to be unfulfilled.

If Boozman could beat Miz Blanche as he did, he'd have made short work of Halter. The Obama team knew that.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
56. "destined to be unfulfilled"
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:40 PM
May 2014

We would have settled for just winning the Primary.
Nobody knows what could have happened in the General.

But your post begs the question:

WHY would the White House spend all that money in a Democratic Primary supporting a sure LOSER
and alienating Organized LABOR and the Grass Roots?

The Official White House Endorsement of Lincoln ran 24/7 on all the commercial stations.
If you live here, I'm sure you saw it many times.
I saw his smiling endorsement of The Witch who Killed the Public Option and BRAGGED about it until I was SICK,
and kept asking WHY????
That TV BUY wasn't cheap.
WHY spend all that money on a LOSER in a Primary?

Running Bill Clinton all around Arkansas bashing LABOR and the Grass Roots
ain't cheap either.

The White House must have believed that Halter could beat Lincoln in the Primary.
Hell, give the guy a chance, and mend some fences with Organized LABOR and the Grass Roots.
GIVE US A CHANCE!!!!

So WHY did the White House and DSCC spend all that time and money supporting a LOSER in a local Democratic Primary. Maybe YOU can answer that question,
because all Organized LABOR got from the White House was ridicule and Na-na-nanana.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
53. That is what WE want to know.
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:34 PM
May 2014

WHY would the White House spend all that money in a Democratic Primary supporting a sure LOSER
and alienating Organized LABOR and the Grass Roots?

The Official White House Endorsement of Lincoln ran 24/7.
That ain't cheap.

Running Bill Clinton all around Arkansas bashing LABOR and the Grass Roots
ain't cheap either.

So WHY did the White House and DSCC spend all that time and money supporting a LOSER in a local Democratic Primary. Maybe YOU can answer that question,
because all LABOR got from the White House was ridicule and Na-na-nanana.

Seeking Serenity

(2,840 posts)
55. There's not THAT much organized labor in Arkansas
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:39 PM
May 2014

Apart from school teachers, there's really not that much organized labor here. Not even state employees have a collective bargaining unit here (yes, there's the ASEA, but it's a voluntary association, not a recognized union). We have a few tradesmen's locals, but organized labor is NOT a major player in Arkansas politics. The Farm Bureau holds a lot more clout.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
57. Bill Halter was endorsed and funded by NATIONAL Labor Unions among others.
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:46 PM
May 2014

Arkansas WAS going to be the battleground state for bring pressure to UNIONIZE WalMart,
but the White House took care of that.

Steelworkers union endorses Halter for governor
http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2013/feb/22/united-steelworkers-endorses-halter-governor/

AFL-CIO Backs Halter In Arkansas, Commits $3M To Defeat Lincoln
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/afl-cio-backs-halter-in-arkansas-commits-3m-to-defeat-lincoln

Labor Jumps Into Arkansas Senate Race
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/labor-jumps-into-arkansas-senate-race/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Do you think it was a wise move for the White House and Bill Clinton to use National Party funds to alienate Organized LABOR and rescue DINO Blanche Lincoln...a SURE LOSER in the General?

Seeking Serenity

(2,840 posts)
62. I'm sorry, but that just wasn't realistic.
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:56 PM
May 2014

Arkansans generally don't vote on labor-management issues. It's much more farmers/rural v. urban here. Lincoln was quite farmer friendly.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
71. It was realistic enough to scare the White House into spending a BUNCH of money..
Fri May 23, 2014, 06:37 PM
May 2014

..and dispatching the Old Dog to Arkansas to keep Halter & LABOR from winning the Primary.
If that was "unrealistic", then the White House would have done nothing.

Halter was polling BETTER than Lincoln against the Republican in the General.

WHY did the White House come down like a sack of Big Money Hammers if Halter's chances were "unrealistic".
Remember, I live in Arkansas too.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
77. Who knows? Maybe they thought she was the best to keep the seat...
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:00 PM
May 2014

In 2010, at that point, it was all about keeping the U.S. Senate and not necessarily making it more progressive. Obviously they were wrong - but that doesn't mean there was some ulterior motive at play here. Generally incumbents do do better. Hell, in 2010, A LOT of DU would've loved to primary Harry Reid and would have absolutely ridiculed Obama had he backed Reid in a primary fight.

Sometimes you hedge your bets. For Obama, Lincoln seemed like a logical person to back because she had proven in the past successful in that state. Was it the right move? Eh, either way, it wasn't going to matter. 2010 was a bad, bad year for Democrats and even some good Dems (Russ Feingold) lost because of it.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
51. if they don't know that by now they never will (and they DO know it)
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:33 PM
May 2014

they just have to keep the lid on another 400 years

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
85. It proves Blanche Lincoln was working for, not against BO when she dragged her feet on ACA.
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:19 PM
May 2014

Which was exactly my impression at the time. When Dennis Kucinich dragged his feet there were no concessions made to him for his vote. POTUS just twisted his arm until he got his way. I am disgusted with the feigned helplessness as an excuse for tacking rightward all the time, but never to the left.

It is Kabuki Theater.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
111. BINGO!!!
Sat May 24, 2014, 11:37 AM
May 2014

Blanche was rewarded for her loyalty to the MISSION by killing the Public Option.
That so many can NOT see this,
or refuse to see this,
only proves the PT Barnum was wrong only about the rate at which SUCKERS are born in America.
That rate FAR exceeds a "Sucker born every minute".

 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
42. it might help if Obama were actually a Progressive
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:12 PM
May 2014

In many areas, he is moderate, or Conservative.

All the votes in the world won't make him stop the privatization of America's formerly Public schools, put a Wall St crook on trial, or stop NSA meta-spying, or stop the drone killings, or stop federal harassment of medical marijuana facilities, or stop pushing the hideous TPP or other similar trade deals.

If we elect a rightwing GOP president, he will also privatize public schools, kill many foreigners with drones, try to stop cannabis legalization, push NSA spying, and keep his hands off wall st, no matter what they do, while pushing huge elite-favoring trade deals.

Thank God, Obama is Progressive on social issues, at least.

But economics? Not so much.

In fact, practically not at all.


I now surrender to the notion that I am unlikely to see a real Progressive president in my lifetime.

Seemingly, having Klaatu and Gort come to Earth in a flying saucer to force peace upon us, is more likely.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
47. Obama had plenty of Political Coin because The Will of the People supported him
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:24 PM
May 2014

in 2008.

He choose to spend that coin to support the 3rd Way corporate agenda instead of using it to harness the power of The Will of The People who elected him based on their perception he was supportive of a true Progressive Agenda.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
50. Nailed It.
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:30 PM
May 2014

It wasn't just "perception".
Candidate Obama made some very specific promises to the Working Class:

*Hold Wall Street Accountable

*Re-Negotiate NAFTA

*Make EFCA the Law of the Land

*Raise Taxes on the Rich

*Raise-the-Cap on SS deductions to protect SS forever

*Label Foods with Country of Origin and GMO Warnings.

*A national Public Option to "Keep the Health Insurance Industry Honest"

...If he had even bothered to give the appearance of working for these promises,
taken to the Bully Pulpit to lobby for them,
most would be willing to cut him some slack,
but he didn't.
Most of these promises were never mentioned again after the inauguration.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
90. What a steaming pile of pie in the sky horse shit.
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:51 PM
May 2014

The will of the people doesn't mean a damn thing. The will of the House and the Senate is what matter. If the will of people had anything to do with jack, the gun control bill would've passed, immigration reform would've passed.

But oh no, forget reality, scream about 3rd way boogeymen and throw the corporate in there, I believe you forgot oligarch and triangulation though. I mean if you are gonna rattle off "more left than thou" cliché nonsense, at least include all the favorite buzz words.

QuestForSense

(653 posts)
59. Okay, straight from the horse's mouth, and in a nutshell.
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:50 PM
May 2014

By the way, that's Democrat and Illinois Governor Pat Quinn, uncredited in the photo.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
61. Obama is so right. I wish I could do something to help.
Fri May 23, 2014, 05:56 PM
May 2014

But here I am in one of the most solidly Democratic districts in the pretty solidly Democratic state, California.

I traveled to a crucial state to help get Obama elected in 2008, but I can't do that this year.

Please, please. If you live in a red state or a state that could go either way, please get your walking shoes on and volunteer to get Democrats elected. We really need Democrats in Congress.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
79. Two follow-up questions for the president
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:07 PM
May 2014

1. Do you require 61 Senate votes to get anything done? If so, you've given up, because it ain't going to happen. If not, how many do you need?

2. If you do somehow get governing majorities, will you then stop fracking? Stop the corporatization of public schools? Cancel the awful Heritage Care and replace it with health care? Declare TPP dead in the water? Shit-can the KXL? Cancel or let expire the Bush/Obama Billionaires' Tax Cuts? Stop playing golf with Bain Capital?

The answers to these questions tell us if he's being sincere or if he's just passing the buck as cover for implementing the 1%'s agenda.

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
84. you know his position on those issues, but even if he agreed with your positions
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:17 PM
May 2014

they don't sound like a full agenda for the President. . . there are other important and worthwhile initiatives that he's going to be working to advance.

I'm not sure of the value in setting a number of seats that he'd like the party to hold. How about 100?

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
86. But if he is going to enact a Republican agenda, and everyone knows that, the 2008 voters
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:28 PM
May 2014

are not going to trudge back to the polls. If he really wants more (D)'s in Congress, then he needs to actually re-commit to the agenda that he campaigned on the first time. "I don't have the votes" is a cop-out. Votes for what? And what is he doing to get those votes?

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
89. republican agenda?
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:48 PM
May 2014

. . .that aside, you should realize that progressives and liberals didn't falter at the midterm polls - it was moderate and conservative Democrats who stayed home.

Progressive folks here have taken great pains to point out that it wasn't their absence from the polls which brought us a republican House. Most progressives and liberals are already in Barack Obama's corner (DU excepted, maybe).

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
91. What else would you call it?
Fri May 23, 2014, 07:56 PM
May 2014

Fracking. Off-shore drilling. "All of the above". Replacing public schools with for-profit "charter" schools. Fast-tracking TPP, sometimes called "NAFTA on steroids". XL Pipeline. Appointing Wheeler to the FCC. Heritage Care.

This is not the agenda that the 2008 landslide voted for. If he wants those people to show up again he should try adopting a Dem agenda, and fighting for it.

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
92. I'd have to shut one eye and turn my head halfway around to see that as his entire agenda
Fri May 23, 2014, 08:00 PM
May 2014

. . . but, I obviously don't share your point of view.

Besides, the dynamic of an off-term election favors those folks voting against the party in the presidency and doesn't draw a lot of contented voters.

I don't think the election process, in which disparate candidates represent a myriad of motivations and interests around the country, is as simple and straightforward as you're representing here.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»President Obama: "Th...