bless

ask you to either.

We know why you were forced to fight and who profited, same types of folks who are today.

Americans (most) have no clue how our military and wars are seen by the rest of the world, if they did, would they care?

If they knew that most think of us as the death star types and most of our enemies as rebel alliances, would they care?

Good on you for getting it right.

For some reason, likely the profit margin, our consumer culture has turned it into something else, entirely. It's a bank holiday+picnic+concert+flag-waving-exercise, with a bunch of vague references to people in uniform, never mind if they're dead or alive.

I owe what freedom I have to activists, whistleblowers, protestors, and lawyers, not how many Taliban insurgents I helped kill.

However, many of us our tested when we live in communities where ex-military officers take over the leadership of our communities and pull rank like they think they're still living on a military base. It makes me appreciate even more the sacrifices made by the grunts in our military.

or at least a significant case could be made for that war. The rest of the wars that this country fought were to preserve the economic interests of the wealthy.

Although even in WW II we were not fighting for our freedom. Neither Hitler or Tojo had any credible means of winning a war against the U.S. mainland. So we were fighting for freedom of western Europeans and the freedom of our economic interests in the Pacific.

The Indian Wars didn't go so well for everyone in my family.

That sums it up. But I volunteered, dad was drafted though...

A few vets believe they are saving freedom. A few from the Viet Nam war also.
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maybe many... I don't know.
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All took a chance on not being here, or being here without some arms, legs, or having some system failure.
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Luck of the draw... more then because it was not always "voluntary".
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flags are used to sell some personal identity, product. Coercive , mandatory at times.

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we go on making the same mistake. If you don't learn from your mistakes it isn't worth making them.

To those of us who know it is about war profits: "This time it is different."

For some reason, that is a line many people fall for.

as much as I hate to say it, the end of the draft had an unexpected affect. Now, when TPTB want a war, the public outcry isn't heard.

How many wars have there been since Vietnam? The people aren't even informed of the 'little' ones.

The OP is right. I lost friends there, for nothing except making the MIC richer and more powerful.

I'm just sorry we couldn't have stopped it sooner.

I tell them if you really want to thank a veteran, look at the voting record on veteran benefits/cuts of your congressman before voting for him or her!

Faux heads don't need the facts, their minds are made up for them daily.

Such was the case with the parks shutdown, the sequester, the latest bill shut down by the Republicans. At least that's what my teabagger acquaintances yelled at me during all of that.

It might help with some, but a lot of them, no.

The Revolutionary War soldiers fought for our freedom. The Northern Civil War soldiers did fight for it. And the World Wars, presumably to some extent. There are a few people who honestly thought the domino theory was good and Vietnam was part of that fight. I agree it is a slogan vis a vis Afghanistan and Iraq. People are attempting to be nice.

we will never face the truth. I naively thought we could come home and teach the country about war. They didn't want to hear then and they surely don't want to hear now. So we go on spending billions on war and not social programs. It isn't good to perpetuate the myth no matter the good intentions.

Last edited Mon May 26, 2014, 09:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Joined the army during the Carter administration - never saw combat.

I get nauseated by the folks my age who post their appreciation for veterans on Facebook. I sure as hell wasn't fighting for any freedom (other than the freedom afforded me because I'm a veteran - VA loan mostly), but these 'appreciators' could have joined. I did give up 4 years of my life wearing a uniform every day - camoflauged despite the fact that I worked in a carpenter shop. I had to stay away from home - where my friends and family lived. The sacrifice of those who post a "thank you veterans" thread on Facebook - are apparently making an equal (or in their minds, greater) sacrifice.

I feel like telling them "save it", but that might be considered rude, and I'm already rude enough. I believe we do this (warrior appreciation day) to keep the concept of 'hero warrior' high in our social order (at least in perception) so that we can continue to attract young people into the occupation of warrior. Personally, I would rather we showed our appreciation for scientists, artists or even beauracrats. Service is service - those who aspire to make it a better world are the ones we should appreciate.

I just had a shitty job in the army, I deserve no more appreciation for my service than anyone else who had a shitty job then or since. I do feel for those who have had their lives turned upside down, but I feel for them whether they served in the military or shoveling shit. It isn't really about sacrifice - it's about making a contribution.

We should appreciate everyone who is at least trying to make it a better world.

...The Central Powers were never a serious threat to the US. Had the Germans won, our world wouldn't have changed anymore than it did after the Franco-Prussian War. The Revolution, 1812, the Civil War and WWII are the only major wars we've fought to actually preserve or freedom and existence as a nation against a serious threat. The rest were for everything from vague diplomatic notions and misunderstandings to unbridled greed.

(But I've had to use the urban dictionary for this and the previous two threads I looked at, because people use acronyms I'm not familiar with; and urban dictionary didn't have anything for MIC that looked likely. "Man in Charge"?

Google President Eisenhower's farewell speech

He states "Me I am left with my memories. I don't need any thanks." So you thank him anyways?
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Normal, but still....

not being treated well when I came home in 1968. I was so excited to be back and never knew what was going on in this country concerning the war. I was anti war while still in country and got a tremendous shock with the way I was treated. I thought I could identify with young people again but I was shunned.
So thanks now is ok but it seems hollow to me.

I just thought it was a valuable post; sorry I wasn't clearer.

There may well be other things you, we all, deserve thanks for; but I wasn't trying to thank you for something you asked not to be thanked for.

It is that group of big corporations where Generals go to retire and who profit from keeping this nation on a war footing at all times.

Ike warned us about it, as FDR and Jefferson did about the bankers. If you really want to learn more about the MIC, check out the essay 'Dynasty of Death' - http://911nwo.com/Dynasty%20of%20Death.html

Works for me.......
No flag waving here, but I will swill beer and light up the BBQ!

first lost his leg (because the hospital was stupid) and now he has breathing problems thanks to what was agent orange. been that way for about 6 yrs. Fairly sure the high mountain air is what does him good. never was the nicest guy. I doubt I want his memories. Wish you luck with yours..

Labor day is too much like this one..

not when bankers, sweatshop and plantation owners or oil companies are tired of negotiating and want to impose their will on other countries.

American armed forces should only be committed after a declaration of war. No more of this mushy "congressional authorization" stuff.

Congress has played a big role in allowed all these unnecessary wars to happen. They are by and large cowards, afraid to take a stand one way or the other. They'd rather let the President decide matters of war.

Senators, if it's not serious enough to declare war, then it's not serious enough to risk American troops!

lobbyists, CEO's, and highly paid, do-nothing board members.

...were truly worth fighting, and I usually cannot come up with any, with the possible exception, as stated upthread by TexasTowelie, for World War II. And perhaps the American Revolution.

Such a primitive approach to problem solving, and the problems don't ever seem to stay "solved" for very long. What's the point?

a lot more about money than we were taught. The wealthy merchants here certainly did not want to pay taxes to the crown.

World War II is the one to which everyone points, but never before or since did anyone slaughter 12 million people. I do believe that the Civil War was fought for freedom and principle. It was far from perfect, but then, we don't live in a perfect world.

Excellent post.

for that...

and most especially if their loved ones died that way, or came back damaged, telling them it was all for corporations and not for our freedom makes them totally freak out. I have had so much rage dumped on me because of trying to wake people up to this fact. But it's worth it -- as you say, if we continue to let people be deluded about war, corporations can manipulate us into war every time.

And, no one wants to disrespect those who died or lost their health in the belief that they were doing something wonderful for their fellow countrymen.

I don't have the same worldview as most and have noticed that people get really angry when you challenge things they "know" but don't seem to have examined very closely.

An' it's Tommy this an' Tommy that an' anything you please:

An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees.

I thank you for expressing a vitally important truth that should be the central message of this national holiday.

Far too many Americans put SUPPORT THE TROOPS bumper stickers on their cars while supporting politicians who send our soldiers to be killed or maimed to fatten the wallets of war profiteers.

War, maybe the Civil War and possibly WWII. Since then we have been playing war for corporate gain and to overthrow some dictator that does not bow down to us when we say down.

Smedley Butler on Interventionism
-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

....to me, honoring those who have served in our military is to bring them home. The best way to support or military personnel is to never, ever send them off to fight unless it is absolutely necessary for the survival of the nation.

We are about the same age -- I recall those years all too well.
I agree entirely with your sentiments and with your opinion -- I believe it is far more truthful than
the maxims heard so often like the ones in the letters "freedom isn't free" etc.
War is seldom fought for such high principles -- it is fought for property, treasure and personal gain;
principles become the publicly expressed reasons.
I don't doubt for a moment that a soldier trying to stay alive in battle is driven by no more than survival of himself and his comrades -- and so he should.

… for what you THOUGHT you were about to do, once drafted into it.

I see that the MIC has already learned about the draft, creating instead, one of the few options for "Full Employment".

The promise of Dick Cheney and all the other war criminals reaping what they sow is still alive in me.

MMM

I was drafted and served too.

I was a minor cog in a huge wheel.

I didn't fight for anybody's freedom either. I did my time and got out as fast as I could.

THANKS FOR YOUR HONESTY

I didn't fight for America's 'freedom', either. I suppose I fought for Kuwait's freedom, whatever that means. (An ultra-conservative Muslim monarchy that generated wealth through fossil fuels. Not my idea of something worth fighting for.)

The stories of veterans being spat upon during the Vietnam War have proliferated so pervasively through our society that the mere mention of someone's time in the Armed Forces elicits a plethora of no doubt sincere, but still obligatory effusions of "Thank you for your service!"

I didn't join the Army in order to fight for anyone's freedom. I joined because I liked tanks, I wanted to travel the world on someone else's dime, and I wanted money for college.

I didn't serve in the Gulf in 1991 to 'defend freedom' or what-the-fuck-ever. I did it because I was following my orders to do so. And as history bears out, 'following orders' isn't necessarily a heroic thing to do.

And BTW, I and many others like me who didn't charge machine-gun nests, or fall on a grenade to save our buddies, constantly get referred to as 'heroes'. As Hollywood movies have taught us to, we smile and self-effacingly say: "I ain't no hero. The heroes are the one that didn't make it back home."

Then I go puke somewhere.

I am not a hero. Know why? Because I didn't do anything heroic! I was just following orders. (See above).

So yes, let's remember our fallen. Let's remember our veterans. But can we please, for fuck's sake, stop making more of them?!?

the jingoistic madness after the World Trade Center attack. Hell, I almost hate even saying the words "9/11" or "September 11th" because that carries so much negativity for me, especially as the bush/cheney/giuliani goons kept shoving it in our faces and down our throats. "Fightingforourfreedom" - it's become such a perverted, bastardized, even meaningless line, upaloopa!!! The bad guys have fucked THAT up, too! So misused, abused, and - well - mal-used (if that's even a word - used with wrong or malicious intent).

It reminds me of the email battle I had with some bush/cheney brainwashed when I questioned a thread that was sent to me - that for the ten-thousandth time tried to attach that terrorist strike to the hard-on for war in Iraq. When there was no link at all but we sure were being sold one, HARD. And I objected. Attempted for the ten-thousandth time to share the truth about that whole WMD scam. And this one person on the thread just WAS. NOT. HAVING. IT!!! And he fired off an angry response on the thread to me - insulting me, questioning my patriotism, questioning my loyalty and American citizenship. Questioning my reason for even sucking air off his planet. "WHERE WERE YOU 9/11 ??!?!?!?!?!? " he demanded. Note - it was "WHERE WERE YOU 9/11" and not "Where were you ON 9/11" or "Where were you DURING 9/11" or something that made sense grammatically. "WHERE WERE YOU 9/11?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" And in the very next sentence, there it was, by Jove! "Our troops are fightingforourfreedom! And you blaspheme them you cursed libtard!!!"

That dear writer just did not get it. NOBODY was over in Iraq "fighting" "for our freedom." NOBODY was fighting for "our freedom" over there. That had NOTHING to do with it. Our so-called "freedom" was not on the line over there. No Iraqis were gonna come over here and take our purported "freedom" away. WTF?!?!?!!?!?!??!?? But man-oh-man do those cliches catch on. And carry weight. Big time! So easy just to peel 'em off without even thinking, having been well-schooled by the repetition of the Pox Noise "teaching-to-the-test" propaganda catapulting strategy.

"Fightingforourfreedom." Irrelevant. And it was just as irrelevant and meaningless when applied to Vietnam, to Afghanistan, to Serbia, to Syria, to ANYWHERE. And I'm sorry to see this. It's blasphemous - when considered along with the actual sacrifice that's demanded of our troops, and what they deliver, selflessly, honestly, and proudly.

"We have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here."

That would be some hodgepodge navy for the Iraqis. Maybe they would have used oil tankers for troop transports and did an amphibian landing on the East coast of the US.

I had to defend against this in a Blockbuster video store forcryingoutloud, against an earnest young 30-something, who was totally sincere and completely dead-serious. He'd just bought, paid for, and swallowed it whole. That upset me for the entire remainder of the evening.

Or at least not have to fight for the basics.

Just about every year lately, we endure the PBS Memorial Day Concert with our WWII Navy nurse mom. It's on the Capitol grounds, with Colin Powell (yeah...) and other emcees, some nice music but too much music, in fact too much Feeling with absolutely no Thought. Some of the pageantry is irresistible, but even mom yells at the other half of the show. It's hard to want to feel that pride, and to want to honor the honorable without throwing up at the propaganda for the billionaires' wars. And it's pitiful how the foldout-chair audience on the lawn seems smaller each year, and the applause less enthusiastic, while the pomp is just as loud. Their website picture (click the fourth "star&quot shows a packed grounds with people all the way up the Capitol steps, but I don't see that on the teevee. And of course "The National Memorial Day Concert is sponsored by Lockheed Martin Corporation".

and I apologize that they used you. Everything you said is right.

have been saying that we are honoring all those vets dead and alive who have fought for our freedom. It's like hearing an echo over and over again.

When I was in the Army, I had the honor of serving with and being led by NCO's that were the Privates, PFC's, and Sp4's in Vietnam. They were the grunts. The Infantry. The one's who walked point in the jungle. I was and still am in awe of those guys. All of them had Purple Hearts, combat patches and Combat Infantryman Badges. I think it took tremendous courage and fortitude to go through that, sometimes for more than one tour, and not lose faith in their country or lose their minds. Many made the Army a career, serving as Drill Sergeants and advancing to senior NCO rank. Those guys never asked for thanks either. What they got in return was low pay, not very good medical care, sometimes poor leadership from the officer ranks, and endless time in the field in Germany, South Korea, and stateside. But they were hard chargers and never complained. They were by far the best soldiers I ever served with.

Memorial Day is all about those who never got to come home.

I saw an email about a story from a vet who said similar things.

Sadly the person who forwarded it completely missed the message and added a bunch of flag-waving hoo-rah nonsense. And she's a teacher.

1969 - 1970. did my time in Korea, owing to a quirky incident.

http://labloga.blogspot.com/2007/11/veterans-day-salute-to-kid-from-basic.html

to what it's like from a veterans experience. We need more of that hard truth, imo.
Perhaps instead of "Thanks" we, collectively and starting with congress, owe them an apology.

If you feel like it, I hope you post this sentiment every Memorial Day. I'm in awe and appreciation of your words and forward this post to my dad, who served in the Navy in WWII because he'll appreciate it, too. YOU are a true patriot.

After being drafted I spent two years learning and practicing a bunch of crap I would never use in real life.

However I think the experience was a net positive for me. I was able to save a few bucks, pay for part of my college education with benefits, and purchase our family's first home with no money down and a very low interest rate. I should be thanking the US Army for providing me with opportunities I'd never have had otherwise.

This was from 1960 to 62. I never saw any action, never fired a shot in combat, never left the US, although I spent time in some really awful places. I might not feel so positive about my service if I were a few years younger, but I do agree nobody owes me anything for it.

I too am a Vietnam vet. A large part of the flag waving comes from people who didn't serve. The biggest hypocrites are the politicians who send off our best to be cannon fodder in order to beef up the military industrial complex and test out their weapons systems. I especially hate some fighter jock who thinks because he was a POW, he somehow has some insight into foreign affairs. If they had to go to the front lines, we wouldn't have any more wars. A good number of my very good friends died in Vietnam; some physically, some emotionally. At any rate, thanks for a post that makes people think.

The propaganda machine will continue to crank out more wars and more victims, all in the name of "for our freedoms". It is beyond disgusting. Wars are launched by fat assed bureaucrats for their own nefarious purposes, and fought by the sons and daughters among us who have no power. The war hawks can shove their freedom fries up their butts.

Thanks for some much needed truth.

too. This day is a joke. On the rare occasion now that people thank me for my service, I tell to please don't insult me. I killed innocent half-starving people on behalf of a country that made up a lie to start a war. And this same country is doing that even more today. I tell them to have a nice day because it's a token holiday--not because it is something many service men and/or women deserve or feel good about. Write the crooked lazy pieces of garbage in Congress that are letting disabled vets live in filth in every VA Hospital in the country. Then I'll thank you. Till then, be careful of the pork. It may make you sick.

It really has nothing to do with those of us who served and are this side of the sod. It's not about good wars or bad wars. It's not about "freedom" or flag-waving. It's not even about who fought and who did not. We remember the yeoman who died when the file cabinet fell over on him in rough seas as readily as we remember the soldier who died in battle, if we're respecting the holiday at all.

For some reason, though, America has turned this day into a Yay Vets, Yay ACDU, Pay Attention to Servicemembers Who Are Deployed, let's have a concert and eat, rah-rah-rah and Wave-The-Flag day.

Memorial Day is not Veteran's Day is not Independence Day....but for some reason, unfathomable to me, we tend to convolute at least two out of three of those on a regular basis.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/05/23/presidential-proclamation-prayer-peace-memorial-day-2014

And for being here to tell about it.

respectfully,
Bright

I was just a child during the Vietnam War so I didn't really understand what was going on. After 9/11 and the Iraq and Afghanistan fiascoes I see how clearly our foreign policy is not at all about protecting the peoples' security. It's about protecting corporations' security. The VA crap where people have died due to neglect is a perfect example that human lives don't matter to the corporate giants and their bought and paid for politicians. Only the next quarterly profit and loss statement matters so they can get their huge salaries and bonuses.

...our nation was secure from conventional military conquest from 1945 until the present. With two oceans to the east and west, a friendly (and small) neighbor to the North and a friendly (and poor) neighbor to the south, we were and still are militarily secure. Thus, any military conflict we have engaged in since then has been either in defense of others (Korea), as part of a larger geopolitical strategy (Vietnam, Iraq #2), economic interests (Iraq #1, Iraq #2), or in pursuit of terrorists (Afghanistan).

It's right up there with the NONSENSE we saw after 9/11 of the Statue of Liberty wearing a burka with the caption, "If they win."

Seriously.

During the Bush Years I used to ask classic Iraq chickenhawk morans, "Do you really believe if we leave Iraq that women in California will have to stop wearing bikinis?"

Air Force, and I saw the 9/11 attacks happening on TV while I was in tech school.

eom

I am a Vietnam vet also, and the pain of how we were treated is still with me. At first I was a stanch
supporter of the war. I was told we went to Vietnam because we supported them under the SEATO
treaty (South East Asia Treaty Organization). This was to stop the advancement of Communism. We
had to stand up the the Communist. Later, I found out it was all a lie. I found out that Ho Chi Min
tried to get help from the U.S., but was turned down, so he went to the Chinese. The South Vietnamese
government was corrupt and many Vietnamese disliked us as they did the French. Women would show
up with grenades hidden with their babies. There were atrocities on both sides, but mostly the North
Vietnamese and the Vietcong. I lost all respect for this war and the leaders in this country that lead
us into it with lies. I believe that the military complex including civilian contractors and companies wanted
to try out their new weapon systems at the expense of American and Vietnamese lives. Then the same
thing happened with Iraq, which was even worse. We were the invaders, we went there lying to the
American people so that the rich would get richer and we would be able to control the oil from this
country. Now the whole region has been d-stabilized at the expense of 4000 American lives and 100k
Iraqi lives. The Afghan war started good using the Northern Alliance, but we did not followup and got
into another mess. No one has been held accountable. We punished as many enlisted personnel and
low ranking officers. Iraq and Afghanistan were volunteer and State Military Reserve. This was mostly
poor and minority while Vietnam was conscription, except for many rich and connected. But life is unfair
and I do not mean to disparage veterans from any of these wars because they did their duty as they
saw it. I am just sick of the "thank you for your service".

Just a Reservist, living in the poor rural South. And I got activated for 3 damn wars. Oh, I became an RN eventually. As a poor minority single mom living in the sticks, I probably would never have made it. The Army trained me to be a 91Charlie, an LVN and gave me the GI Bill to make RN and presented me with a commission. But, so many other poor kids that entered the military or Reserves didn't come back or came back maimed or emotionally and psychically shattered. But, we keep joining because McDonald's and Walmart pay just don't pay the rent. Whoever said that poor men fight rich men's wars was right.

The Vietnamese neither attacked nor threatened to attack the United States. We were engaged in a war of aggression against a sovereign nation that had natural resources we wanted. Ho Chi Minh was a ruthless dictator enslaving his people, blah blah blah yak yak yak. We were bringing the gift of democracy, blah blah yak yak. Sound familiar?
I'm no hero. I was just a kid who was unfortunate to get ensnared in a system of which I disagreed and went to war under the threat of prison. 46 years ago I was lucky enough to walk in the front door upright, damaged, but upright and happy to be home.

I always think fighting for the "corporations" or the "contractors"! If it was our freedoms then they would not be taking them away at home faster than you can blink an eye. I have been lied to my entire life by this government, since JFK! Social Security, huh, Medicare, huh, pensions, huh, IRA's, huh. They just take what they want and call it fighting for freedom. Ask the Vets needing care at the VA. Just another under funded bunch of BS!

He was dragged into war and worried about one thing: keeping himself and his buddies alive.

He also is quick to tell people that today is the time to remember those who didn't come home.

Not sure how to deal with that.

I did what I had to do like many, many others. I graduated high school in '67. If you had the smarts and money, there was college. If not, there was the draft. I had a deferment at the time BUT in the industrial area I lived in, I couldn't buy a job with that type of deferment. I saw the Army recruiter and I was on my way out of Texas in early '68.
The first time I came home from Vietnam in '71, I ran into old high school 'friends'. More than one made comments that made me feel like I had been screwed because they found a way to beat the system, get good jobs and live happily every after. Many of those folks today are conservanazis. They have never know any hardship other than a divorce.

I joined. I served. I volunteered for Vietnam. I'd do it again. The part after Vietnam, I'd have done different.
I've listened to conservanazi idiots belittle draftees. Those guys did what they had to do. I think that took lots of courage taking chances to see where the Army and Marines placed you.

Many folks don't remember but some draftees were routed to the Marine Corp at the recruiting stations. Some "volunteered" and some "were volunteered".

The main thing I felt was that I had volunteered for a lost cause. I did my best. BUT, if the conservanazis at that time could have, we'd still be fighting there right now so their MIC bribers could be making lots of money.

To those that gave the ultimate sacrifice, RIP. My prayers are with you. Many veterans today have unseen scars that run deep into their souls.

They tricked you. We were all very upset after the tragedy of 9-11. I was emotionally effected.
I understand a young man wanting to strike back. Its always been that way with the young men.
Those of us who remembered the days of 'desert storm' were familiar with the modern warfare and we televised it. People wanted to watch it again. They were very exited about it. I was terrified.
Now you know why.

well stated, sir, thank you

to applaud you on this day.

That is the greatest service anyone can perform for his country: telling the Truth over and over until it is heard, understood, believed, and acted upon, so that the victimization ends for all.

Except the 1%. They deserve to be "victimized". They can certainly afford it.

for vets. It wasn't for freedom. It was for Free Dumb...

But it wasn't for our freedom. It was for your survival. You did it because you had to, I do love you just because of that. You deserve our thanks just because you had to put up with their crap.

Mentioned in the following interview with a Vietnam vet. Donald Duncan got around to quite a few colleges in the early 60s, including mine. The day after his talk, a campus antiwar group was founded. I can't imagine for two seconds that anyone converted to antiwar activism by this guy would spit on a vet. I've long since lost my copy of The New Legions, though.

http://www.talkaboutwars.com/group/alt.war.vietnam/messages/482426.html

He was a Green Beret who had done several tours, and then he got out and said that we're fighting on the wrong side, essentially. So I read that book, and that's where I began to develop a political consciousness, because everything he said made sense to me: that the peasants don't want us, that we're supporting these corrupt generals and landlords, and what kind of foreign policy are we advocating? At that point I decided that I had a responsibility when I came home to tell people what I had experienced and what I thought was the real deal.

See also
http://www.vietnamese-american.org/b10.html

The documentary Sir! No Sire! is a great inro to the GI antiwar movement
http://www.sirnosir.com/the_film/reviews_130.html

Thanks for posting this.

War is bullshit - made up by obscenely rich men in order to get obscenely richer. it tires me out to think about the pisspoor why for all the wars, and thinking of all the needless death and destruction makes me feel so sad. can't we wage peace instead?
i think you might need this: !!

Those damn memories.

Juan Cole says it all:

"1. The Tea Party Congress should pass the Comprehensive Veterans Health and Benefits and Military Retirement Pay Restoration Act of 2014, which they connived at sinking last February. WaPo explains: “The $21 billion legislation was supposed to improve health, education and other benefits for veterans. Instead, it failed to get the 60 votes needed to stop a threatened filibuster.”
...

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/on_memorial_day_lets_do_right_by_our_veterans_20140526

1LT INF, 1/502d, 173d ABN BDE. I came home with a bunch of medals, a load of psychological problems and a knee that doesn't work properly, thanks to a claymore mine.

I remember visiting my grandfather in England the next year, where I slept in the room next to him. The first night I was there, I dreamt about a particular firefight, in which I relived shooting and killing a man. Repeatedly. My grandfather, who had served in France in 1914-15 (and spent the rest of WWI in Egypt and Palestine -- he knew T. E. Lawrence and didn't think much of him) said to me the next morning that I had had a rough night. I said that I dreamt I was back in combat, and asked him. "Do the nightmares ever go away?" He replied, "They will subside, but never go away completely." My cousin came in and asked what we were talking about. We said, in chorus, "I hope you never find out." (My grandfather was right, the nightmares have subsided, but are not gone.)

I have three sons. None of them has ever been in the military. While I do love and respect my country, I refuse to wear my patriotism on my sleeve. If you want to push my berserk button, try waving a flag in my face.

we were willing to do what the nation asked us to do.

Thank you for your service.

I went after my draft number was high enough to keep me out. I went because I knew I wasn't going to be taken seriously regarding my anti-war attitude without going. I also believe in national service - not necessarily military - and that it should be universal.

Have thought a lot about this as I too went to Vietnam in 68-69 and served briefing air crews in the intelligence service.I saw a lot and knew a lot of real shit.

Have spent the last 10 plus years working in my local Vets for Peace chapter. We just took down our memorial day display with almost 7000 tombstones along a street in Gainesville. We also do a peace poetry contest in the local schools every year and for 5 years worked on the GI Rights Hotline helping service members solve problems from being AWOL to being harassed and threatened on the job to being injured or suicidal. For me this kind of service is also honorable and have helped me work through my issues with serving in a War that I do not view as honorable.

General Smedley Butler who was the Marine Corp Commandent in the 1930s said it all:
War is a Racket A Few Profit Many Pay

My take is that in War your can pay with honor but not profit with honor

What I am saying is we did not fight for the freedom of people back home. Saying we did perpetuates these kinds of wars because we live in denial all the time. We send our kids to die, we spend money that could be used to better our lives and the 1% are the ones who gain and start the wars for their gain.

I can say the same thing, "our wars are not for our freedom", but it does not hold as much weight since I have never been in the military.

Thank you very much for standing up and telling the truth.