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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEdward Snowden responds to release of e-mail by U.S. officials
Q: How do you respond to todays NSA statement and the release of your email with the Office of General Counsel?
The NSAs new discovery of written contact between me and its lawyers - after more than a year of denying any such contact existed - raises serious concerns. It reveals as false the NSAs claim to Barton Gellman of the Washington Post in December of last year, that after extensive investigation, including interviews with his former NSA supervisors and co-workers, we have not found any evidence to support Mr. Snowdens contention that he brought these matters to anyones attention.
Todays release is incomplete, and does not include my correspondence with the Signals Intelligence Directorates Office of Compliance, which believed that a classified executive order could take precedence over an act of Congress, contradicting what was just published. It also did not include concerns about how indefensible collection activities - such as breaking into the back-haul communications of major US internet companies - are sometimes concealed under E.O. 12333 to avoid Congressional reporting requirements and regulations.
If the White House is interested in the whole truth, rather than the NSAs clearly tailored and incomplete leak today for a political advantage, it will require the NSA to ask my former colleagues, management, and the senior leadership team about whether I, at any time, raised concerns about the NSAs improper and at times unconstitutional surveillance activities. It will not take long to receive an answer....whether my disclosures were justified does not depend on whether I raised these concerns previously. Thats because the system is designed to ensure that even the most valid concerns are suppressed and ignored, not acted upon. The fact that two powerful Democratic Senators - Ron Wyden and Mark Udall - knew of mass surveillance that they believed was abusive and felt constrained to do anything about it underscores how futile such internal action is -- and will remain -- until these processes are reformed.
Still, the fact is that I did raise such concerns both verbally and in writing, and on multiple, continuing occasions - as I have always said, and as NSA has always denied. Just as when the NSA claimed it followed German laws in Germany just weeks before it was revealed that they did not, or when NSA said they did not engage in economic espionage a few short months before it was revealed they actually did so on a regular and recurring basis, or even when they claimed they had no domestic spying program before we learned they collected the phone records of every American they could, so too are todays claims that this is only evidence we have of him reporting concerns false.
- more -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/edward-snowden-responds-to-release-of-e-mail-by-us-officials/2014/05/29/95137e1c-e781-11e3-afc6-a1dd9407abcf_story.html
Where's your evidence, Snowden? His legal adviser thinks the focus on this is a "red herring."
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/nsa-releases-snowden-email-nbc-truth/story?id=23918598&singlePage=true
Snowden's lawyer is dismissing as a "red herring" what Greenwald characterized as the "biggest news."
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/471893773375397889
LOL!
Wizner's comments also indicates that Snowden has no evidence of his contacts.
Feinstein: Snowden never voiced NSA concerns
http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Feinstein-Snowden-never-voiced-NSA-concerns-5514604.php
Snowden email fell short of NSA criticism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025020097
The "biggest news" is that Snowden admitted to stealing damaging documents and distributing them to people who simply promised they wouldn't reveal the information.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)The NSA denied he brought up specific issues. This is so disappointing.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"The NSA never denied there were emails. The NSA denied he brought up specific issues."
...engaging in theatrics. Think about his response:
He's not talking about, not a paper trail, but demanding the NSA ask his "former colleagues, management, and the senior leadership team about whether I, at any time, raised concerns"
He has no evidence of the claim he tried to go through the proper channels.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)It is, of course, but I've been told again and again here Snowden is a Russian agent, Snowden handed everything to Putin, Snowden is a Chinese agent, Snowden is out to destroy President Obama, etc., no actual evidence required.
I actually pretty much agree with this, though:
"It is, of course, but I've been told again and again here Snowden is a Russian agent, Snowden handed everything to Putin, Snowden is a Chinese agent, Snowden is out to destroy President Obama, etc., no actual evidence required. "
...your standard for Snowden's claims is random Internet comments? If that's the case, why do you believe Snowden?
Snowden recently changed his story because he's still desperate for clemency
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024640825
Also, if this wasn't an issue, why is he focusing on it? Greenwald seems to think it's important.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Not believing Snowden, who can't produce any evidence, doesn't automatically default to believing anyone else.
Snowden is making the claim. If he was stupid enough to not keep documented proof, then he just blowing smoke.
I mean, he's attacking the NSA and also relying on them to prove his BS claims? Pretty stupid position to be in.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)@ggreenwald: As @benwizner says, whether Snowden first invoked the "proper" (deliberately impotent) channels is also irrelevant http://t.co/tPSjMkD5vV
randome
(34,845 posts)Some say he's a spy. Some say he's a hero. Some say he's a confused wannabe superhero. Maybe it's a little of all those.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)the WH works with Republicans to weaken the surveillance bill and the CIA continues to withhold documents pertaining to the torture committed during the Bush administration.
If the Republicans are the "enemy," why does Obama work so hard to protect them?
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Response to ProSense (Original post)
Post removed
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"By one of the most prolific silly posters in DU history ... "
Wait, let me guess, you're one of the "vast majority," right?
frazzled
(18,402 posts)If I were a whistle-blower about to go nuclear on the entire US government, and I had tried to go up the chain of command with concerns beforehand, I certainly would have kept not only the drafts of those emails and any responses, but an iron-clad paper trail of them. So where are they?
It's not plausible for us to believe these existed without him showing them to us. I'm afraid the burden is on him to produce them. And if he was too stupid to save them, then that's telling in itself. You can't just say this stuff.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Last edited Fri May 30, 2014, 12:10 AM - Edit history (1)
I just can't get past this glaring omission.
This, combined with the other sketchy elements of this scheme, makes me question the whole account.
randome
(34,845 posts)"... on whether I raised these concerns previously."
IOW, forget what I said about evidence existing. That doesn't matter any longer.
He's losing it. He's crashing. More's the pity.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]
ProSense
(116,464 posts)wandy
(3,539 posts)The type of intelligence that can handle problems as they occur often does not lend it's self to "looking down the road".
He knew what he was doing was important, he knew how to collect the data, he knew he was going to stir up a hornets nest.
That much he had worked out. Evidence? Keeping E-Mails or journaling records,,,meh, not so much.
Even if he was on the "inside" grabbing that type of data takes smarts.
Then he gets himself stuck in the mens room of a Russian airport?
randome
(34,845 posts)Apparently all he could steal were SharePoint documents. Nothing that indicated access to personal data because that is well protected.
He is definitely a 'loose cannon'. And some of the issues he raised deserve a hearing. But he seems to think of himself as some sort of superhero and that's actually hurting his 'cause', whatever that was.
The best thing to have come out of this is the concept of having an adversarial representative at the FISA court. And that wasn't even his idea. Even now, he doesn't seem to understand what his own objectives are.
Brian Williams said it best when he said Snowden confuses the capability of technology with what the NSA actually does.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]
wandy
(3,539 posts)you might be right in not being sure about the smarts.
You are right about one thing. That Superman cape ain't doing him any good.
Oh well, we've been paying for the NSA's tune for a long time. Somebody had to rattle the till.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Basically, he's saying Edward Snowden is above any law.
Doesn't this genius level (read a 160 IQ right here on DU) Super Secret Double Naught Spy realize that once Putin is finished using him as a propaganda tool he's going t be thrown out of Russia so fast with no choice but to head back to the US, his head will be doing 360 degree turns the entire trip?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)But Feinstein showed Chronicle editors and reporters a copy of an April 2013 e-mail exchange between Snowden and the agency's general counsel, in which Snowden posed a question on NSA training regarding the relative authority of laws and executive orders.
Snowden referred specifically to an intelligence directive requiring that NSA activities be "conducted in a manner that safeguards the constitutional rights of U.S. persons." Agency training for following the directive, Snowden said, appeared to give equal weight to federal law and executive orders.
"I'm not entirely certain, but this does not seem correct, as it seems to imply executive orders have the same precedence as law," Snowden wrote. "Between (the orders) and laws, which have precedence?"
The general counsel's office reply began, "Hello Ed," and continued, "Executive orders have the 'force and effect of law.' That said, you are correct that (they) cannot override a statute."
The e-mail ended, "Please give me a call if you would like to discuss further."
----------------------------
Here is a link to the entire email exchange: http://icontherecord.tumblr.com/
This is what Snowden is trying to pass off as "Trying to get my concerns dealt with through normal channels"?
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)lostincalifornia
(3,639 posts)something wrong with his story