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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Thu May 29, 2014, 08:17 PM May 2014

Edward Snowden responds to release of e-mail by U.S. officials

Edward Snowden responds to release of e-mail by U.S. officials

Q: How do you respond to today’s NSA statement and the release of your email with the Office of General Counsel?

The NSA’s new discovery of written contact between me and its lawyers - after more than a year of denying any such contact existed - raises serious concerns. It reveals as false the NSA’s claim to Barton Gellman of the Washington Post in December of last year, that “after extensive investigation, including interviews with his former NSA supervisors and co-workers, we have not found any evidence to support Mr. Snowden’s contention that he brought these matters to anyone’s attention.”

Today’s release is incomplete, and does not include my correspondence with the Signals Intelligence Directorate’s Office of Compliance, which believed that a classified executive order could take precedence over an act of Congress, contradicting what was just published. It also did not include concerns about how indefensible collection activities - such as breaking into the back-haul communications of major US internet companies - are sometimes concealed under E.O. 12333 to avoid Congressional reporting requirements and regulations.

If the White House is interested in the whole truth, rather than the NSA’s clearly tailored and incomplete leak today for a political advantage, it will require the NSA to ask my former colleagues, management, and the senior leadership team about whether I, at any time, raised concerns about the NSA’s improper and at times unconstitutional surveillance activities. It will not take long to receive an answer....whether my disclosures were justified does not depend on whether I raised these concerns previously. That’s because the system is designed to ensure that even the most valid concerns are suppressed and ignored, not acted upon. The fact that two powerful Democratic Senators - Ron Wyden and Mark Udall - knew of mass surveillance that they believed was abusive and felt constrained to do anything about it underscores how futile such internal action is -- and will remain -- until these processes are reformed.

Still, the fact is that I did raise such concerns both verbally and in writing, and on multiple, continuing occasions - as I have always said, and as NSA has always denied. Just as when the NSA claimed it followed German laws in Germany just weeks before it was revealed that they did not, or when NSA said they did not engage in economic espionage a few short months before it was revealed they actually did so on a regular and recurring basis, or even when they claimed they had “no domestic spying program” before we learned they collected the phone records of every American they could, so too are today’s claims that “this is only evidence we have of him reporting concerns” false.

- more -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/edward-snowden-responds-to-release-of-e-mail-by-us-officials/2014/05/29/95137e1c-e781-11e3-afc6-a1dd9407abcf_story.html

Where's your evidence, Snowden? His legal adviser thinks the focus on this is a "red herring."

Ben Wizner, Director of the ACLU Speech, Privacy and Technology Project and legal adviser to Snowden, dismissed the controversy over Snowden’s internal efforts as a “red herring” to the larger issue of mass surveillance.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/nsa-releases-snowden-email-nbc-truth/story?id=23918598&singlePage=true

Snowden's lawyer is dismissing as a "red herring" what Greenwald characterized as the "biggest news."

Biggest news from NBC/Snowden interview: NBC confirmed Snowden filed written concerns with NSA - something USG has vehemently denied.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/471893773375397889

LOL!

Wizner's comments also indicates that Snowden has no evidence of his contacts.

Feinstein: Snowden never voiced NSA concerns
http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Feinstein-Snowden-never-voiced-NSA-concerns-5514604.php

Snowden email fell short of NSA criticism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025020097


The "biggest news" is that Snowden admitted to stealing damaging documents and distributing them to people who simply promised they wouldn't reveal the information.





27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Edward Snowden responds to release of e-mail by U.S. officials (Original Post) ProSense May 2014 OP
The NSA never denied there were emails. joshcryer May 2014 #1
Snowden is ProSense May 2014 #2
All of a sudden evidence is important? Hissyspit May 2014 #3
So ProSense May 2014 #5
Why do believe the NSA or Feinstein? Hissyspit May 2014 #9
What? ProSense May 2014 #10
@ggreenwald: As @benwizner says, whether Snowden first invoked the "proper" (deliberately impotent) Hissyspit May 2014 #23
Snowden is definitely an enigma. Different people have different interpretations of what he wants. randome May 2014 #13
In other news, OnyxCollie May 2014 #4
Post removed Post removed May 2014 #6
It's "silly" that Snowden responded? ProSense May 2014 #7
If there are other emails, he should show them frazzled May 2014 #8
Exactly. n/t ProSense May 2014 #11
Exactly Bobbie Jo May 2014 #18
+1 uponit7771 May 2014 #19
"...whether my disclosures were justified does not depend..." randome May 2014 #12
Yup. n/t ProSense May 2014 #15
I don't think he is "loosing it", as I said before a loose cannon............ wandy May 2014 #16
I'm not sure about the 'smarts' part. randome May 2014 #17
Not knowing the "shop" and how they classify/protect information....... wandy May 2014 #20
So now he's arguing he never needed to go through the process of actually being a whistleblower. MohRokTah May 2014 #21
Wow, the email from Snowden to the General Counsel is laughable... stevenleser May 2014 #14
No Hissyspit May 2014 #22
Yes! nt stevenleser May 2014 #24
You asked a question and I answered it truthfully: Hissyspit May 2014 #25
all snowmen has to do is release his copies of the emails, and if can't do that, then there is lostincalifornia May 2014 #26
He was so busy stealing shit, he forgot to cover his ass. Now it's up to his former co-workers? Tarheel_Dem May 2014 #27

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
1. The NSA never denied there were emails.
Thu May 29, 2014, 08:23 PM
May 2014

The NSA denied he brought up specific issues. This is so disappointing.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
2. Snowden is
Thu May 29, 2014, 08:29 PM
May 2014

"The NSA never denied there were emails. The NSA denied he brought up specific issues."

...engaging in theatrics. Think about his response:

If the White House is interested in the whole truth, rather than the NSA’s clearly tailored and incomplete leak today for a political advantage, it will require the NSA to ask my former colleagues, management, and the senior leadership team about whether I, at any time, raised concerns about the NSA’s improper and at times unconstitutional surveillance activities. It will not take long to receive an answer....whether my disclosures were justified does not depend on whether I raised these concerns previously.

He's not talking about, not a paper trail, but demanding the NSA ask his "former colleagues, management, and the senior leadership team about whether I, at any time, raised concerns"

He has no evidence of the claim he tried to go through the proper channels.

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
3. All of a sudden evidence is important?
Thu May 29, 2014, 08:42 PM
May 2014

It is, of course, but I've been told again and again here Snowden is a Russian agent, Snowden handed everything to Putin, Snowden is a Chinese agent, Snowden is out to destroy President Obama, etc., no actual evidence required.

I actually pretty much agree with this, though:

"...whether my disclosures were justified does not depend on whether I raised these concerns previously."

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
5. So
Thu May 29, 2014, 08:46 PM
May 2014

"It is, of course, but I've been told again and again here Snowden is a Russian agent, Snowden handed everything to Putin, Snowden is a Chinese agent, Snowden is out to destroy President Obama, etc., no actual evidence required. "

...your standard for Snowden's claims is random Internet comments? If that's the case, why do you believe Snowden?

Snowden recently changed his story because he's still desperate for clemency
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024640825

Also, if this wasn't an issue, why is he focusing on it? Greenwald seems to think it's important.



ProSense

(116,464 posts)
10. What?
Thu May 29, 2014, 08:57 PM
May 2014

Not believing Snowden, who can't produce any evidence, doesn't automatically default to believing anyone else.

Snowden is making the claim. If he was stupid enough to not keep documented proof, then he just blowing smoke.

I mean, he's attacking the NSA and also relying on them to prove his BS claims? Pretty stupid position to be in.

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
23. @ggreenwald: As @benwizner says, whether Snowden first invoked the "proper" (deliberately impotent)
Fri May 30, 2014, 02:16 AM
May 2014

@ggreenwald: As @benwizner says, whether Snowden first invoked the "proper" (deliberately impotent) channels is also irrelevant http://t.co/tPSjMkD5vV

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
13. Snowden is definitely an enigma. Different people have different interpretations of what he wants.
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:06 PM
May 2014

Some say he's a spy. Some say he's a hero. Some say he's a confused wannabe superhero. Maybe it's a little of all those.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
4. In other news,
Thu May 29, 2014, 08:44 PM
May 2014

the WH works with Republicans to weaken the surveillance bill and the CIA continues to withhold documents pertaining to the torture committed during the Bush administration.

If the Republicans are the "enemy," why does Obama work so hard to protect them?

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

Response to ProSense (Original post)

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
7. It's "silly" that Snowden responded?
Thu May 29, 2014, 08:50 PM
May 2014

"By one of the most prolific silly posters in DU history ... "

Wait, let me guess, you're one of the "vast majority," right?



frazzled

(18,402 posts)
8. If there are other emails, he should show them
Thu May 29, 2014, 08:50 PM
May 2014

If I were a whistle-blower about to go nuclear on the entire US government, and I had tried to go up the chain of command with concerns beforehand, I certainly would have kept not only the drafts of those emails and any responses, but an iron-clad paper trail of them. So where are they?

It's not plausible for us to believe these existed without him showing them to us. I'm afraid the burden is on him to produce them. And if he was too stupid to save them, then that's telling in itself. You can't just say this stuff.

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
18. Exactly
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:41 PM
May 2014

Last edited Fri May 30, 2014, 12:10 AM - Edit history (1)

I just can't get past this glaring omission.

This, combined with the other sketchy elements of this scheme, makes me question the whole account.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
12. "...whether my disclosures were justified does not depend..."
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:03 PM
May 2014

"... on whether I raised these concerns previously."

IOW, forget what I said about evidence existing. That doesn't matter any longer.

He's losing it. He's crashing. More's the pity.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

wandy

(3,539 posts)
16. I don't think he is "loosing it", as I said before a loose cannon............
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:36 PM
May 2014

The type of intelligence that can handle problems as they occur often does not lend it's self to "looking down the road".
He knew what he was doing was important, he knew how to collect the data, he knew he was going to stir up a hornets nest.
That much he had worked out. Evidence? Keeping E-Mails or journaling records,,,meh, not so much.
Even if he was on the "inside" grabbing that type of data takes smarts.
Then he gets himself stuck in the mens room of a Russian airport?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
17. I'm not sure about the 'smarts' part.
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:41 PM
May 2014

Apparently all he could steal were SharePoint documents. Nothing that indicated access to personal data because that is well protected.

He is definitely a 'loose cannon'. And some of the issues he raised deserve a hearing. But he seems to think of himself as some sort of superhero and that's actually hurting his 'cause', whatever that was.

The best thing to have come out of this is the concept of having an adversarial representative at the FISA court. And that wasn't even his idea. Even now, he doesn't seem to understand what his own objectives are.

Brian Williams said it best when he said Snowden confuses the capability of technology with what the NSA actually does.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

wandy

(3,539 posts)
20. Not knowing the "shop" and how they classify/protect information.......
Thu May 29, 2014, 10:05 PM
May 2014

you might be right in not being sure about the smarts.
You are right about one thing. That Superman cape ain't doing him any good.
Oh well, we've been paying for the NSA's tune for a long time. Somebody had to rattle the till.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
21. So now he's arguing he never needed to go through the process of actually being a whistleblower.
Thu May 29, 2014, 10:08 PM
May 2014

Basically, he's saying Edward Snowden is above any law.

Doesn't this genius level (read a 160 IQ right here on DU) Super Secret Double Naught Spy realize that once Putin is finished using him as a propaganda tool he's going t be thrown out of Russia so fast with no choice but to head back to the US, his head will be doing 360 degree turns the entire trip?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
14. Wow, the email from Snowden to the General Counsel is laughable...
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:08 PM
May 2014
But Feinstein showed Chronicle editors and reporters a copy of an April 2013 e-mail exchange between Snowden and the agency's general counsel, in which Snowden posed a question on NSA training regarding the relative authority of laws and executive orders.

Snowden referred specifically to an intelligence directive requiring that NSA activities be "conducted in a manner that safeguards the constitutional rights of U.S. persons." Agency training for following the directive, Snowden said, appeared to give equal weight to federal law and executive orders.

"I'm not entirely certain, but this does not seem correct, as it seems to imply executive orders have the same precedence as law," Snowden wrote. "Between (the orders) and laws, which have precedence?"

The general counsel's office reply began, "Hello Ed," and continued, "Executive orders have the 'force and effect of law.' That said, you are correct that (they) cannot override a statute."

The e-mail ended, "Please give me a call if you would like to discuss further."

----------------------------
Here is a link to the entire email exchange: http://icontherecord.tumblr.com/

This is what Snowden is trying to pass off as "Trying to get my concerns dealt with through normal channels"?

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
26. all snowmen has to do is release his copies of the emails, and if can't do that, then there is
Fri May 30, 2014, 02:27 AM
May 2014

something wrong with his story

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