And mornin', sunshine!

i am celebrating Mother Nature today

As fetching as ever!

i didn't read (or see a link to) the actual paper (don't have time to read the whole thing anyway assuming it's lengthy) but do you think these numbers would hold true for black buyers vs. white buyers vs. other buyers? i guess i want to know if blacks treat other blacks the same way as the whole or is it better or worse?

sP

OnEdit : i skimmed the paper and did not see a breakdown of respondents to the ads, just the nature of the ad/response itself. however, it does seem very well written and thought out...i would just like to see some deeper analysis of the respondents.

Yes, Black consumers can be just as biased against Black sellers. I think much of it is societal conditioning.

This is troubling for me because I can't count the number of times I have heard Black consumers say that they do not patronize Black (owned) business because of "poor customer service."

But when one drills down, the generalized (biased) statement doesn't make sense ... when asked if they had experienced poor customer service (or even outright disrespect) from a white (owned) business, the answer is always, "Yes." And the obvious follow-up question: "Then why do you feel the need to avoid all Black (owned) business, while continuing to patronize white (owned) businesses?"

The answer comes down to the old expression in the Black community: "Everyone knows the white man's ice is colder."

Racial bias cuts across all demographics.

There was study about this (can't remember the details) that confirmed it.

Thanks Willie (Lynch).

beginning with Kenneth & Mamie Clark's "doll studies" in the '30's.

Here's an extract from a recent review of that literature:

I'm sure one could speculate why forever; I think it is more of a cultural thing - not in a negative sense but in sense of community and family and church where reciprocity is more important than cash? I know churchgoers of all races are almost universally dreaded by food service folks ("Sunday's are the worst&quot perhaps there is some cultural connection. There also seem to be fewer black 'geeks' and hackers, although one would think that technology would be a great leveler of sex and race since a n electronic device is impartial to the colour or gender of the person using or building it.

One thing I will give the two big corporations I've worked for, the ONLY color that mattered was green, there is no one as colorblind as a CFO or CPA, at least the ones I've worked with 'show me the money'.

As a musician by passion I do find it interesting that I've seen VERY few black salespeople in music stores, even those in large cities; noticed this profoundly at Guitar Center many years ago.

Interesting. Sometimes I think racism, or maybe just fear of 'the other' is hardwired so deeply in most but not all people that we'll never get rid of it, merely hopefully be able to control it someday.

And this is a product more likely to be bought by millennials, which reminds me of a discussion from a week or so ago where people said that millennials don't really see race anymore.

We all see race and we need to bring these prejudices to light so we can actively fight against them. If we pretend they don't exist, we can continue to ignore them and pretend we as a society and we individually are not affected by them.

One cannot live here without receiving (subtle and not so subtle) messages from "the culture" from the time we are born. It is insidious and effects all people living here

from craigs list....assuming all words and pricing and distances were the same.
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I probably would go along with the survey. Except I think the tattoo hands are white. I think I would prefer any nationality/race to tattoo hands.

If only 13% fewer offers were received in areas where blacks were indeed a minority of the population, that might indicate that a relatively small percentage of white potential buyers were significantly put off by the black hand, which I think is actually, in a sense, good news... i.e. a majority or white potential buyers were not hesitant to contact the black seller.

Another reason geography matters: To complete a sale, Craigslist generally requires a face-to-face final transaction. In some areas, the black hand could imply that the white buyer would likely have to go to a neighborhood he is not comfortable in in order to complete the purchase. I guess you could argue that's bigotry as well, but I'm not sure it's bigotry that makes white people uncomfortable about walking around in less safe neighborhoods, especially with a visual appearance that can make the stand out as an outsider.

As I said, geography matters, but it's an interesting question that probably doesn't fall neatly into a "bigoted or not bigoted" category. If you know that the majority of the black people in your area live in a "bad neighborhood" is it "bigotry" or simply "reasonable" to assume that there is a strong likelihood that the black seller lives in such a neighborhood? And maybe it's simpler to just click on the next listing down than to pursue that one to find out exactly where he is.

Craigslist ads also can often be pretty specific about the location of the seller, enough so that you could know the characteristics of the neighborhood. I wonder if that was considered in this study. In NYC, for example, I wonder if the response to the black hand would be different if it said the seller was on the upper east/west side vs. if it said he was in Harlem or Bed-Stuy.

The assumption assumes that the Black person lives, or would do the exchange, in a "bad Neighborhood" (i.e., a Black neighborhood) and that one would be "safer" with the white guy (in the white neighborhood).

This guy lived in a white neighborhood, too.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ted+bundy&sa=X&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgzoHsxCHfq6-gYlJkqkSJ4hlaGScYabFF5BaVJyfF5yZklqeWFnMMXEaV0x5h9Zny_Lvbbdy2tlURa8DAG5zHFVEAAAA&biw=1708&bih=804&tbm=isch&imgil=-SuBtGRPtgyr3M%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcRnTlwm1A4xfOJC6RJu2eQualagp9fsI2DeRWw6FKeiy-Tpokj2pg%253B177%253B214%253BAJOlhhuRMyqMrM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FTed_Bundy&source=iu&usg=__KJnCE2Xm6irgXp7WwDnan-sQFoc%3D&ei=PPSJU93dIIOQyASr2oKwCQ&ved=0CMsBEP4dMAs#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=-SuBtGRPtgyr3M%253A%3BAJOlhhuRMyqMrM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fcommons%252Fa%252Fab%252FTed_Bundy_HS_Yearbook.jpeg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FTed_Bundy%3B177%3B214

but I think it can also vary with the individual and the circumstance.

In part I think it depends on the distinction between what you said, that the white buyer is "assuming" that the Black person lives in a particular neighborhood, vs. what I said, that the white buyer may believe that there is a "strong likelihood" that he does, based on what he knows about the neighborhoods in his area. Assuming such a thing as fact is, I would agree, straight out bigotry. Being aware of the odds, however, is arguably just, well, knowledge.

But Ted Bundy? I don't see the point. Even the most racist white person will tell you that there are horrible white people. As for Ted Bundy's neighborhood, I have no idea how safe or unsafe it was overall relative to other neighborhoods, despite his presence.

If I saw a guy with tattooed arms holding a phone on ebay, I'm just not doing business with that guy. The same goes for guys wearing camo hats or NRA shirts.

I immediately think "this is probably stolen" or "this guy is going to try to rip me off" and I usually find that I'm right about my biases about certain types of people.

The white guy sitting in McDonald's with a rifle on his back is probably a loner or a wife beater and a high school dropout just the black guy hopping around wearing a tank top with his pants sagging is probably isnt a Yale or Harvard graduate.

Hey, I'm sure there are nice fellas who like to open carry or wear saggy pants but I don't want to die in the process of trying to find them.

Is that you?

Just purchase your stuff from stores and stay in doors because your "biases" would have you doing business with: https://www.google.com/search?q=picture+of+bernie+madoff&biw=1708&bih=804&tbm=isch&imgil=Ye4mp-v2QK_tEM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcQZ4D_Js0cMriy2b5tv8Rfo_XfPxm-gKPvt5a_gHJ5N-LkPGmzN%253B460%253B288%253BaTdGez2Lhw2UyM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252F%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fanimalnewyork.com%252F2009%252Fbernie-madoff-doing-just-swell-in-prison%252F%3B350%3B375

and, interacting "safely" with: https://www.google.com/search?q=ted+bundy&sa=X&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgzoHsxCHfq6-gYlJkqkSJ4hlaGScYabFF5BaVJyfF5yZklqeWFnMMXEaV0x5h9Zny_Lvbbdy2tlURa8DAG5zHFVEAAAA&biw=1708&bih=804&tbm=isch&imgil=-SuBtGRPtgyr3M%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcRnTlwm1A4xfOJC6RJu2eQualagp9fsI2DeRWw6FKeiy-Tpokj2pg%253B177%253B214%253BAJOlhhuRMyqMrM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FTed_Bundy&source=iu&usg=__KJnCE2Xm6irgXp7WwDnan-sQFoc%3D&ei=PPSJU93dIIOQyASr2oKwCQ&ved=0CMsBEP4dMAs#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=-SuBtGRPtgyr3M%253A%3BAJOlhhuRMyqMrM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fcommons%252Fa%252Fab%252FTed_Bundy_HS_Yearbook.jpeg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FTed_Bundy%3B177%3B214

As opposed to doing business or interacting with: https://www.google.com/search?q=damon+dash&biw=1708&bih=804&tbm=isch&imgil=-sGZf-EgJ5ykAM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcR87YPu2UNbE2CjdDkiqGDJJAH6aEgIkWq1moYrgEtFjJN7IU_n%253B180%253B180%253BkwdsEYxO-dqLgM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252F%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.blackelectorate.com%252Farticles.asp%253FID%253D744%3B180%3B180

who queried the ad?

of all shapes, sizes, ages and colors. So, not really ALL Americans then, is it?

People saying that AAs are poor tippers, that they agree with the study, etc. Sad.

Say you are applying for a government benefit or in a court. Your white client gets the spirit of the law, the black client the letter. Fortunately you can get a black judge or government worker occasionally, and that will be less of a factor.

-Laelth