Yet he does NOT say he shot him fighting over the gun or that there was any struggle FOR the gun. Which, to my mind, is odd.

You either Believe or it is foggy.

There is NO BOTH.

The father again is trying to blur legal terms to save his son.

Zimmerman's family and "friends" have been saying again and again that Zimmerman was beaten to within an inch of his life. His head mercilessly pounded into the ground again and again. His brother went so far as to say Zimmerman nearly needed to be spoon-fed while wearing diapers for the rest of his life because of the brutal beating he took.

Now what happened is "a little bit cloudy".

with an article from an Orlando paper that alleges Zimmerman was beaten and beaten badly by Trayvon Martin. She called it something like "What you won't hear about Travon (misspelling in original) Martin". I "replied all" and said that if that was the case, it was amazing that the police video tapes failed to catch the blood, the injuries and the messed-up clothing on Zimmerman. I'm still waiting for a reply. Yeah, I don't think I'm going to get one either.

Zimmdad was not a witness. Unless Zimmy wants to go on the stand to confirm his fathers statements, then they have no bearing on the case... and no way does Zimmys attorney let him go on the stand. Zimmdad is merely blowing smoke and trying to deflect blame.

Pulleeze Luuweeze.

What the heck is this, amateur night at The Improv?

Don't quit your day job, Poppy, you're not ready for prime time.

lmao

You can just imagine the conversations taking place right now at Zimmerman HQ.

The problem with this law is that, if at any time that you feel threatened, you can fight back or "defend yourself", even with a gun. Basically, it chalks up to someone's POV. All Zimmerman has to do is say is that he thought Martin was going to lunge at him, or that he simply "felt threatened". Following someone and going up to them, isn't a crime in and of itself. With the Florida law, (similar laws are being passed all over the nation), it's going to be very hard to prosecute Zimmerman. This is not going to end well. Perhaps if people thought about the consequences of passing such blatantly dangerous legislation, not to mention the people that they elect, we wouldn't be talking about this now.

I will not be surprised if Zimmerman walks. They better do a big PR campaign in Florida to stop any type of riots in the event that Zimmerman gets away with murder. Can you imagine if someone kills Zimmerman, and that person is put on trial, and then sentenced for murder? Race relations in America is going to get really ugly in this country. We're talking Rodney King/OJ.

It's a shame that gun laws aren't really being questioned by the media. It's 100% "race". We need to really crack down on the gun lobby.

They just passed a law where you can legally shoot at cops.

The NRA is behind all these bills, including what got Martin killed.

They're going to be flooding Florida with tons of cash in an effort to propagandize the masses, pushing that this law didn't murder Martin. They did this right after Columbine. They're like the Koch bros. They are one of the most powerful lobbies in the United States.

I hope this is a turning point for America. Sadly, these turning points only happen after somebody dies in the US.

As I understand, that has traditionally been determined by an objective test: Would a reasonable person believe that there was a need for self-defense. Would a reasonable person under the circumstances believe that self-defense was necessary to defend himself or others.

But maybe this law makes the test subjective: Do I reasonably believe?

In my opinion, it's absolutely unworkable if it makes the test subjective. But that seems to be what it does at least in a lot of cases.

So any time you subjectively feel endangered by someone, you can kill that person? How insane. How totally chaotic. That is worse than anarchy. That is lawlessness.

Can someone please disagree with me. I do not want to believe that any elected legislature anywhere in the world could impose a subjective test for determining whether self-defense is justified. Remember, as in the Zimmermann/Martin case, sometimes only one person survives to tell the "facts."

if they scoped out "reasonable people" before handing them weapons.

George is on the ground with Trayvon on top of him and managed to pull a gun out of somewhere between him an Trayvon and then raise the gun to Trayvon's chest? Doesnt pass the smell test.

But if I take this at face value there would be some of Travon's blood on the shirt, powder marks on Trayvon, and both an entry and exit would, right?

(9mm are infamous for doing this through and through at close range)

I'll wait over here.

PS. For a judge you'd think he'd know ths thnk about shutting up right? Oh neve mind..,

the thighs of his pants. The funeral director just mentioned an entry wound to the chest but did not mention an exit wound. He did say that there were not marks on Trayvon's knuckles, no abrasions or swelling, things you would expect if he had been punching Z.

BC the body had been cut on on those areas by ME. Well have to wait for MEs report to find out where entrance and exit wounds were.

sense. They claim Travon was sitting on top of Z with his knees holding down Z's arms, one hand over Z's mouth while punching him with the other hand. Z's legs apparently were not strong enough to buck a much smaller Trayvon off him. Even though Trayvon was supposedly sitting on Z's chest, he saw behind him in the dark to Z's waistband holster and Z was able to get the gun with his pinned down arm and hand, all the while screaming help clearly even though his mouth was covered by Trayvon's one hand. Then he miraculously healed from his life threatening injuries in the time it took him to ride to the police station. So now, they have to keep changing the story to fit the facts.

they didn't take him to the station.

Don't forget that his massive injuries weren't even mentioned in the initial police report.

Everyone in the News Media seems to be convinced it was at the station.. where do you think it came from?

I suspect storms are on their way.

jackass dad trying to protect his jack ass son.

Such an imagination.

Zimmerman is on his back, broken nose, cracked head wound, both profusely bleeding type injuries and Trayvon is on top of him. He pulls his gun and shoots Trayvon yet gets no blood on himself. No appreciable blood of his or Trayvon's.

That's pretty cloudy for sure.