General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsguns, mental health, and the elephant in the room.
here is a little gift from the clue fairy-
what is the first step to going on a shooting spree?
you start stockpiling guns.
and ammo.
and fertilizer.
and......
so homeland security- try this- somebody who buys x guns in x days should get a visit from a nice person with a soft voice and a glock in their boot. or at least a google.
seems pretty simple.
unless the nra has their thumb on the scale.
hack89
(39,171 posts)that information is not available. Not every gun sale is recorded. Ammo sales are not recorded at all.
mopinko
(70,090 posts)that better get over soon.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)You only need one gun.
You don't need any fertilizer.
Most shooting sprees don't use large amounts ammo.
samsingh
(17,595 posts)are apparently done by people who have many guns
neighbors talk about their fascination with guns and collecting guns.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)... or your post is worthless.
mopinko
(70,090 posts)i would say along the lines of 10 guns in a month
50 guns in a year.
i would think you would be looking at someone like that, anyway.
but they all seem to pile it up.
or someone else piles it up and leaves it laying around.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Why would they be global? US law would only cover the US.
mopinko
(70,090 posts)the wto would stick its nose in, or some such god damn bullshit.
i meant it as hyperbole, but you can never be sure these days.
samsingh
(17,595 posts)conversation has gone to such an extreme that 50 guns /year every year is not shocking. why should anyone need that many working firearms? there should be an escalating task at least.
samsingh
(17,595 posts)this is what happens when someone tries to propose a solution to the gun killing madness.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)The point is entirely different if X=1 or X=10,000. Or any number in between. Saying "X" is not a solution. In the final analysis there needs to be a number for X, and that is where all the disagreement will arise. "X" is worthless.
mopinko
(70,090 posts)that might have a teeeeenie tiny chance of being both useful AND achievable.
the value of x, and the value of having such a thing as x, is to frame a question. then you have to solve for the answer.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)... You will have no answer.
mopinko
(70,090 posts)x is the limit of american tolerance
it is limited only by the money of the nra.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)... a non-problem. You are.
Continue to frame and solve to your heart's content. I'll chime in with my opinion.
samsingh
(17,595 posts)which incidently doesn't get anyone killed.
unlike that deer in the lights look of gun lovers when you propose any time of solution to the insane gun violence that their love of guns is causing
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)he is welcome to frame away to his heart's content. It will come to nothing without specifics. EoD.
petronius
(26,602 posts)frequent use of words like "hoarding" and "stockpiling," I don't recall reading of any recent murderer's buying habits being so distinctly outside the norm as to indicate cause for concern. Even if the data were available, it wouldn't show what you hope.
Far more useful I think would be to make sure that every person buying a firearm gets a background check, and to make sure that all relevant info is entered into the system in a timely fashion...
mopinko
(70,090 posts)and what else it would show would be straw buyers and many other less than -responsible gun owners®
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)...piling up 2 weeks before dove season in Texas. Jesus, the feds would have to send in the Army!
samsingh
(17,595 posts)petronius
(26,602 posts)two being the most important. Why expend finite resources on an activity with no expectation of a beneficial outcome? (After all, doing 'something' just to 'do something' is often worse than doing nothing at all, regardless of the topic.)
The OP's proposal may sound common-sensical, but the flaw is that there no reason to assume - and no evidence from recent events - that the buying habits of incipient murderers is meaningfully different from the buying habits of anyone else. In other words, there is no useful x,y to plug in to the rule x guns in y days that would effectively identify the persons needing a closer look. And so, the nice people with soft voices would spend an awful lot of time chatting up gun-buyers who pose no threat, when they could be doing something more productive.
For example, in California there is a program that contacts people who have become legally disqualified from gun ownership subsequent to acquiring a firearm. As I recall, it has about 20 or so agents working through an ever-growing list of thousands of names. The nice, soft-voiced, people would do far better augmenting a program like that than they would looking in on every otherwise-innocuous person who happened to buy x guns in y days...
mopinko
(70,090 posts)of buyers in any given month. just give them a look over. like, just verify their foid info. make sure their license are in order.
and duh, make sure it isnt the opening of some hunting season.
hard to get people to think about how something could be done without fucking it up.
but i think in this day and age, buying patterns of potato chips are tracked.
seems to follow to me that if you enforce the laws when you buy them, there should be no problem to make sure you are still following the law in the future.
petronius
(26,602 posts)are any more (or less) likely than anyone else to be in that 5%. In other words, there's no x in y rule that effectively discriminates between problem-people and not-problem-people, so the creation of such a rule is no different than just taking a random sample of gun buyers. And given the minuteness of the population we'd be trying to detect, a random sample would be useless, i.e., a waste of resources. (Even assuming that the cursory inspection you describe would pick up on any warning signs, amid the sea of innocuous purchasers.)
Frequency-of-purchase limits may slow down straw-buyers and waiting periods may deter impulsive acts (I have no problem with either of these limitations, if reasonable), but neither of those will impact mass killers either, as far as I can tell...
samsingh
(17,595 posts)rather than the constant 'just use the laws on the books nra bullcrap' that follows these too frequent massacres.
samsingh
(17,595 posts)if gun lovers cared about law and order, they would agree
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)hunter
(38,311 posts)... that something is not quite right in a person's life or community.
Anyone who doesn't see a gun as an ordinary but dangerous tool, something like a chainsaw, isn't living in a nice place.
Ethical hunting, fine. I've got no problem with that. Living in a rural area and providing euthanasia for a rabid raccoon or fatally injured animal, fine.
Target shooting, I begin to get suspicious. Breathing lead damages a person's nervous system and brain. Why not use arrows, air guns and darts, paint balls, lasers, or hell (a favorite among the women of my mom's family) thrown knives for your target practice?
My great grandmas were very strong women of the Wild West. They used guns as tools. My great grandfathers were farming, surveying, engineering, water master, math nerds and writers.
My scariest great grandma was good with knives and guns. My great grandfather grew the hay, kept the books, kept the fences, and maintained the house. His hobby was radio. My great grandma handled the cowboys, cows, and horses, and on bad days she had to shoot some. I remember her as the knife woman. She could turn a freshly killed smaller mammal or bird, or a pile of freshly caught fish, into a feast as quickly as modern people call out for pizza.
As a little kid I'd watch her hands and her knife and it amazed me. A chicken, a rabbit, a few fresh trout, they all got turned into meat, stock for a stew, and other useful things like fur, feathers, and fertilizer, faster than I could follow. It was sleight-of-hand magic.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)care about society, only their own selfish needs.
mopinko
(70,090 posts)when we talk about mental illness, repetitive behaviors like this are often telling.
bipolars go on spending sprees, whether they have the money or not. someone who bounces checks for guns should ring a bell.
brains are amazing. i think the construct of "mental illness", as tho it could be separate from a "brain illness". there is a stovepipe built into that idea that is hurting a lot of people, really.
i think this will fall away soon.
freud is about dead.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I think it is the purchase of GTA.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)This has been a standard discussed for quite some time. It would effect the lunatic stockpiling firearms and it would also thwart the "straw man" buyer who simply plans to resell the guns on the street to people who can't pass a background check.
I'm 53 years old and have been hunting since I was a kid. I have never in my life found it necessary to purchase more than one gun in any single month. Any single decade, for that matter.
This is a restriction that would have a negligible impact on law-abiding gun owners.
belcffub
(595 posts)I had way more then 1 that month... They were shipped and as such I went through a ffl and did a background check... It was several more then 1... four generations of accumulation...
and I did purchase more the one in a month once... there was a good sale...
mopinko
(70,090 posts)transfers between family members.
i think it would be pretty obvious at any rate what was happening.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)It is to easy to imagine a scenario where someone would purchase two guns, on the same day ...
Hey, we started shooting trap at the local range ... you and your son want to join us this Saturday?
Sure, let me stop by Academy and pick up a couple of shotguns.
That was fun, we enjoyed that but I notice the others were using auto shotguns. That 12 seemed to be kicking your ass let's get something that doesn't kick so much ... another stop at academy and two more shotguns.
I certainly do not "collect" firearms but in the coarse of my life I have ended up with a collection of firearms.
mopinko
(70,090 posts)just so you know.