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dsc

(52,162 posts)
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 08:27 PM Jun 2014

So we are supposed to be shocked, shocked I tell you that Hillary changed her position

on marriage equality between 1996 and today. Really? It was virtually impossible to find a state wide, let alone nationwide, elected politician in favor of marriage equality in 96. Heck, gay rights groups weren't fighting for marriage equality back then. Many saw a repeat of the Bowers case in marriage equality cases being filed in 96. Thankfully that turned out to be wrong. As to Hillary and pretty much every other politician on the planet, yes her position changed. Let's recall where we were in 96. Gays couldn't serve in the military (desegregated in 48), gays had no employment protection at the federal level and in 3/4 of the states (Civil Rights Act passed 64, federal contractors by executive order 41), no accommodation protections at the federal level or in 3/4 of the states (Civil Rights Act of 64), and no marriage equality (Loving v Virginia 67). The parenthesis is when the Civil Rights movement reached certain milestones that are equivalent. Now do you think maybe, just maybe a few politicians who were against interracial marriage in 48 were no longer against it in 67 (a period just one year shorter than that from 96 to today)? Did Kennedy favor interracial marriage in 48, Johnson?

I think there are many legitimate concerns about Hillary but this isn't one of them. Of course she changed her mind on marriage equality in the last 18 years. So have lots of people, that is why people who favored marriage equality did what they did. That was the whole point of the marriage equality movement. Why would we complain that someone actually changed his or her mind?

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So we are supposed to be shocked, shocked I tell you that Hillary changed her position (Original Post) dsc Jun 2014 OP
I am gay and proudly support her. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #1
I supported her in 08 dsc Jun 2014 #4
Should be a fun race. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #5
Sure by primary time there will be a whole host of issues Hillary will have changed her position on. KittyWampus Jun 2014 #2
i think the article was more about her "emotional state" or at least that's what they JI7 Jun 2014 #3
I haven't heard the entire exchange dsc Jun 2014 #6
It's right here... TeeYiYi Jun 2014 #11
What's troubling to me is the unnecessarily testy, ecstatic Jun 2014 #23
In 1996 I thought civil unions were the way to go OKNancy Jun 2014 #7
ALL mainstream politicians flip flop. Shoulders of Giants Jun 2014 #8
i listened to the entire interview boston bean Jun 2014 #9
Not a fan of HRC... sendero Jun 2014 #10
Most Gay men I knew in the 90's didn't believe in Gay marriage (they saw it only as a fantasy, William769 Jun 2014 #12
I don't think she has changed her mind Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #13
No. Clinton dodged the question poorly. DirkGently Jun 2014 #14
Let me get this straight BootinUp Jun 2014 #15
So, we can wait happily until 2024 for her ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #16
I think it's great she changed her mind--a lot of people have-- truebluegreen Jun 2014 #17
I listened to the interview and read the transcript - I think too much is being made of this Justice Jun 2014 #18
She did laugh it off at first rufus dog Jun 2014 #25
It's Not The Changing Of Her Mind... It's The Carefully Crafted Wiggle Worms That Leave Her... WillyT Jun 2014 #19
Erm, that's what she said. joshcryer Jun 2014 #21
I, too, dismissed marriage equality as a fantasy until some time after joining DU in 2002.... Rowdyboy Jun 2014 #20
I don't see why this is even news. Beacool Jun 2014 #22
As a person who is not a Clinton fan rufus dog Jun 2014 #24

dsc

(52,162 posts)
4. I supported her in 08
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 08:30 PM
Jun 2014

and might do so again in 16 but I might support someone else, it all depends on who is running.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
2. Sure by primary time there will be a whole host of issues Hillary will have changed her position on.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 08:29 PM
Jun 2014

IYKWIM.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
3. i think the article was more about her "emotional state" or at least that's what they
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 08:29 PM
Jun 2014

were trying to imply with the way it was reported. how she acted a certain way.

i didn't watch it but from those who did it seemed like the article was sexist .

dsc

(52,162 posts)
6. I haven't heard the entire exchange
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 08:33 PM
Jun 2014

it is coming up on All In. But what I have heard of it is nothing like what say Chris Christie has done at press conference after press conference with no such overwrought commentary. Of course it is sexist.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
11. It's right here...
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:50 PM
Jun 2014

...if you haven't heard it yet.



I thought Hillary answered the question multiple times. The interviewer was being incredibly obtuse and annoying as hell.

TYY

ecstatic

(32,704 posts)
23. What's troubling to me is the unnecessarily testy,
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 12:15 AM
Jun 2014

almost Romney-like back and forth. I support her but exchanges like that should be avoided at all costs. I can tell she really really wants to be President but she should try to have more fun with it and adopt a more carefree attitude.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
7. In 1996 I thought civil unions were the way to go
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 08:39 PM
Jun 2014

I obviously changed my mind as the arguments for marriage gained steam and also honestly as more LGBT organized and started giving their reasons. I don't even recall much push for marriage in 1996.

8. ALL mainstream politicians flip flop.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:44 PM
Jun 2014

Hillary Clinton is a very smart women, and I don't believe she ever really was concerned with gay people getting married. However, her public persona once was. I assume many capitalistic Republican Party Leaders (Karl Rove for example) could care less about it, but give the religious right lip service as well to win the south. I assume that as gay marriage support goes over 60% in the next few years, mainstream Republican politicians will start "evolving" on this issue in the same way mainstream Democrats did in the past few years. Even if it is coming to the correct position, it is still an insincere way of doing this. I do believe that people of all political persuasions notice this with politicians. Almost all of leaders are insincere and poll followers in both parties, on most issues. This is not to pick on Hillary Clinton, because this is the way the entire system is. However, it is always disheartening to watch the political system's insincerity on an issue as personal as gay rights. It becomes clear when you notice how politician's positions follow the polls on an issue this personal, that there are few leaders in Washington and lots of poll watchers.

You mentioned how public opinion changed on this issue. That is correct and it has been a gradual change. However, the change happened almost overnight with the Democratic party when polls hit a certain level. When the polls were at 40%, almost no Democratic Party Leaders supported gay marriage. once the polls hit 50% almost every leader supported it. Almost every leader in the party changed their position within about a 2 year timespan. I assume this same change again will happen in a few years with the Republican Party (outside of some religious strongholds in the deep south) after the polls reach a higher threshold where they determine it is to their advantage to change their position. That's the problem. None of its genuine, and its obvious marketing appeal on issues that actually impact people's personal lives.

boston bean

(36,221 posts)
9. i listened to the entire interview
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:45 PM
Jun 2014

And the transcript does not convey the true meanings of what was being asked and answered. There was no yelling or even big disagreement.

William769

(55,147 posts)
12. Most Gay men I knew in the 90's didn't believe in Gay marriage (they saw it only as a fantasy,
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:58 PM
Jun 2014

not reality). Why believe in something that couldn't possibly happen in our lifetime right? (You have to remember this was coming off the heels of the Reagan era and the Falwell "moral majority&quot . Since then several of those same Gay men have fled to where it's legal to get married. Anyone see the moral to this story?

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
13. I don't think she has changed her mind
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:57 PM
Jun 2014

I think she always believed in marriage equality but, for political reasons, only recently felt able to say so.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
14. No. Clinton dodged the question poorly.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:03 PM
Jun 2014

Terry Gross simply tried to get Clinton to say whether she'd changed her position because she'd changed her mind, or, by implication, taken one position or the other for political reasons.

Clinton tried to sidestep by saying "America evolved." Gross stayed with it and Clinton took offense, denying that she'd either changed her mind OR made a political calculation in taking either of her opposing views.

She essentially claimed there was a "third way" to look at it.

BootinUp

(47,145 posts)
15. Let me get this straight
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:06 PM
Jun 2014

You are posting a thread defending Hillary Clinton in the DU GD forum?

I AM shocked.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
17. I think it's great she changed her mind--a lot of people have--
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:10 PM
Jun 2014

but it's weird that she won't just SAY so. Instead she was spinning like a top, trying not to be pinned down. What was up with that?

Justice

(7,188 posts)
18. I listened to the interview and read the transcript - I think too much is being made of this
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:13 PM
Jun 2014

I agree with Hillary saying she evolved just as the country did. My own mother evolved in much the same way as Hillary described over the same period of time.

I do think Hillary needs to "practice" how to use humor to deflect these situations.
 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
19. It's Not The Changing Of Her Mind... It's The Carefully Crafted Wiggle Worms That Leave Her...
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:21 PM
Jun 2014
A Political Escape Hatch.

She could easily have said...

"Look I grew up in a region of the country that would disapprove of gay marriage. That REGION would be pretty much the ENTIRE country.

Over the years I think we've all evolved on this matter, as a country, and as a people.

I won't pretend it was easy for any of us, but as we evolved, we thought Civil Unions would be an appropriate compromise. And maybe for a time it seemed that way. But as time went on, and our friends and family expanded... that was no longer good enough.

And then we were forced to gaze upon just what "Marriage" is, or was...

And we realized that it was for two people that love each other, and are committed to each other.

And yeah... I too... have evolved...

Like the rest of the country."


Rowdyboy

(22,057 posts)
20. I, too, dismissed marriage equality as a fantasy until some time after joining DU in 2002....
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:22 PM
Jun 2014

And it was members of the GLBT forum on DU2 that convinced me.

They're trying to manufacture a story out of thin air. I would consider Martin O'Malley or Sherrod Brown, maybe Elizabeth Warren, but Brown and Warren aren't running and I doubt O'Malley can finance a serious national campaign. I will have no problem supporting HRC in the general election and most likely wind up backing her in the primaries.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
22. I don't see why this is even news.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:45 PM
Jun 2014

I know that the media is obsessed with every word Hillary utters, but I don't see the big deal about this interview. This is as overblown as the time her voice cracked in New Hampshire and the media went bonkers claiming that she "cried".

Much ado about nothing.

 

rufus dog

(8,419 posts)
24. As a person who is not a Clinton fan
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 12:20 AM
Jun 2014

Hillary or Bill.

The interviewer was trying to play gotcha.

Asking the question was ok the badgering after the answer was bs and Hillary responded in an appropriate matter.

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