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malaise

(268,968 posts)
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 10:46 AM Jun 2014

Breaking - Divided Supreme Court Shoots Down 'Straw' Purchases of Guns

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/divided-supreme-court-shoots-down-straw-purchases-guns-n132126
<snip>
The Supreme Court on Monday upheld a federal law that makes it a crime for one person to buy a gun for another while lying to the dealer about who the gun is for.

Federal law considers that a straw-man purchase, and the person who does it is called a straw buyer. The law was challenged by Bruce Abramski, a former policeman who bought a gun for his uncle, assuming that by showing his old police ID, he could get a discount — even though his uncle could have legally purchased the gun.

Abramski was charged with violating the law after he falsely checked "yes" on the federal form asserting that he was the actual buyer.

Writing for the court in a 5-4 majority opinion, Justice Elena Kagan said the law helps keeps guns out of the hands of those not legally able to buy them, including those with mental illness or previous felony convictions. Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented.
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Just look at the RW dissenters
24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Breaking - Divided Supreme Court Shoots Down 'Straw' Purchases of Guns (Original Post) malaise Jun 2014 OP
Good ruling. Now lets put teeth in it and prosecute straw buyers Lee-Lee Jun 2014 #1
Thank you smallcat88 Jun 2014 #5
Well, that was the case previously. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #10
Yep- they don't bother Lee-Lee Jun 2014 #12
I've never understood it. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #14
Politics of the agencies Lee-Lee Jun 2014 #21
Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #2
Reckless, irresponsible malaise Jun 2014 #3
What justification do they use for voting against this. I know Thomas doesn't do anything but vote kelliekat44 Jun 2014 #20
Do they support lying on federal documents in general Johonny Jun 2014 #4
Well let me examine those documents re that the Florida elections malaise Jun 2014 #6
Well, Roberts lied during his confirmation hearings, if that counts. Orrex Jun 2014 #7
The fuck could anyone dissent on this?! JaneyVee Jun 2014 #8
Of course malaise Jun 2014 #13
You've got to be a complete blithering idiot to dissent... joeybee12 Jun 2014 #9
If anyone needed more evidence of the damage done by spooky3 Jun 2014 #11
And Ralph Nader Democat Jun 2014 #17
Irony is obviously lost on you noiretextatique Jun 2014 #24
Why would anyone dissent is beyond me. EOM. peabody Jun 2014 #15
Maybe they have shares in flowers and candles malaise Jun 2014 #23
2016 matters. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #16
I can't believe this wasn't illegal already... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #18
It was a crime already Lee-Lee Jun 2014 #22
We need more Dem appointees in the courts and supreme court IronLionZion Jun 2014 #19
 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
1. Good ruling. Now lets put teeth in it and prosecute straw buyers
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:04 AM
Jun 2014

Even though both parties were legally able to buy the gun, he committed perjury by stating he was the actual buyer.

But until we actually prosecute these cases a whole lot more, the existence of the law won't matter much. Even in cases where straw buyers buy gun for mass shootings sometimes they don't get prosecuted, and other cases of perjury on the same form and process don't get prosecuted by the hundreds of thousands (cases where a person attempts to buy a gun and gets denied on the background check- that means they filled the form out swearing under penalty of perjury they were eligible and were not).

smallcat88

(426 posts)
5. Thank you
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:33 PM
Jun 2014

Exactly the point I just made on another thread about this same story but you said it MUCH better than I did.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
10. Well, that was the case previously.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:43 PM
Jun 2014

It's always been a 10 year/10,000$ fine felony for a straw purchase. This just means it survived challenge. (A good decision, IMO)


And it's really never been enforced. Most straw purchasers that are even under observation move hundreds of guns over a period of months to years while under investigation before arrest.

It's ridiculous.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
12. Yep- they don't bother
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:45 PM
Jun 2014

When I was a deputy I handed the BATFE a clear cut case of straw purchase, with videotaped confession no less.

They didn't prosecute.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
21. Politics of the agencies
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:17 PM
Jun 2014

BATFE loves headlines. It has always been a somewhat troubled agency, and they are always out to make a big splash and grab headlines. Much more so for the supervisors, who always have their eye on that next bigger assignment.

US Attorneys are political animals, they want headlines.

Spending your time and effort into a deep, complex operation that nabs 20 members of a biker gang is a much sexier and more attention gathering move than using the same resources to nail 100 straw buyers or people who lie on a 4473 and try to buy a gun while prohibited.

The news doesn't come to a press conference because you busted Suzie Whitetrash at the trailer park buying a gun for her felon boyfriend, even if you manage it 100 times in a year. They do if you busted 20 bikers or gang members all at once.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
2. Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:07 AM
Jun 2014

What a surprise. At some point I do hope they get some "benefit" out of their most heinous rulings.

malaise

(268,968 posts)
3. Reckless, irresponsible
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:11 AM
Jun 2014

right wingers - they (and the former Chief Justice) have done more harm than all judges in the past 50 years.

 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
20. What justification do they use for voting against this. I know Thomas doesn't do anything but vote
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:12 PM
Jun 2014

like Scalia, but are the problems with the other two on this?

Johonny

(20,841 posts)
4. Do they support lying on federal documents in general
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:21 PM
Jun 2014

or only when it involves the purchasing of deadly weapons?

malaise

(268,968 posts)
6. Well let me examine those documents re that the Florida elections
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:35 PM
Jun 2014

back in 2000! Looks like they've been supporting lying for a long time.

malaise

(268,968 posts)
13. Of course
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:48 PM
Jun 2014

They are surrounded by security peeps. They simply defend the NRA's right to sell weapons to anyone - they do not gie a flying fuck about the lives of anyone except their humanized (by them) corporations and right wing interests.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
9. You've got to be a complete blithering idiot to dissent...
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:39 PM
Jun 2014

And four complete blithering idiots did...Kennedy occasionally has signs of lucidity.

spooky3

(34,444 posts)
11. If anyone needed more evidence of the damage done by
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:44 PM
Jun 2014

RWers on the SC, who decide the outcome they or their backers want, then tell their aides to come up with the support for it, here it is.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
24. Irony is obviously lost on you
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 04:27 PM
Jun 2014

since the scotus ruling in bush v gore stopped the recount, which gore would have won.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
18. I can't believe this wasn't illegal already...
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:03 PM
Jun 2014

I assumed that it was. If I get caught buying alcohol for a minor, but butt is in trouble. Buying a gun for someone who's prohibited WASN'T a crime?

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
22. It was a crime already
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:21 PM
Jun 2014

This guy challenged it because he bought a gun for somebody that wasn't a felon and was eligible to own and buy a gun- he just bought it in his name for a discount.

IronLionZion

(45,433 posts)
19. We need more Dem appointees in the courts and supreme court
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:07 PM
Jun 2014

Some of those judges are getting pretty old. When the times comes to replace one, we need to make sure a Dem makes the appointment and there are enough votes in congress to confirm. It's very important for a lot of issues.



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