those of us who must work for self-avowed racists and homophobes, earning barely enough to cover rent and groceries. God forbid my car ever breaks down; it'll mean a Kevorkian solution for sure.

It's counterintuitive, I know, which is why Republicans have a hard time grasping it, but there it is: higher wages stimulate demand (and a lot of pent up demand) and that demand promotes hiring, which means more people working, which spurs more demand and so on.

What the rich and the dumb have done time and again in capitalism is stifle demand while they try to scoop up all the cash. Then they sit and scratch their asses and tell each other how lazy poor folks (anyone who isn't them) are because so many of them are unemployed. They begin to play numbers games to suck every single dime out of the economy while investing in nothing.

That's where we are now.

Usually there is a revolution of some sort. I just hope ours is peaceful and raising wages is the first step.

"Money is like manure, in order for it to do any good, you have to spread it around." - Dolly Levi.

is counter intuitive, too, but it works.

A lot of effective things out there are counterintuitive.

Wages don't rise--by a lot--and I'm afraid the next revolution won't be a peaceful one and that's a shame. Not only are violent revolutions incredibly miserable, they rarely work as advertised.

Asswipe now in power over in Egypt.

Most of us celebrated the people's uprising known as the Arab Spring. But when all was said and done, the same type of person, only worse, has gotten back in the top spot in that nation.

People rise up and shake off oppression, only to have another one take its place. Russians have experienced three different forms of government in less than a century, and each one produced the same result: the lion's share goes to elite few while the majority toils away in pretty much the same conditions. The labels don't really mean anything. In the end, Monarchy, Communism, Democracy all look the same to the people at the bottom.

are a much bigger issue. Can't we focus on that issue instead?

Also, your post didn't mention the additional plight of women and people of color, which proves you're a misogynistic racist. Yes indeed, that is proof.

Many things we can focus on rather than the economy which is great because of our President, and if not then it's only because the President is as powerless as a drugged guppy.

Regards,

Third-Way Manny

Sums up the idiocy around here nicely.

It's going to get lot worse. This isn't simply an issue of a lack of jobs. ''Work'' is being redefined and people don't seem to get that. We can't just keep doing the same things and having the same work and career expectations of the past when the world around us has changed. The same advances in computers and technology that started the jobs surge and business boom of the 1990s and 2000s has now saturated the market with their efficiencies and no longer require as many workers. More advances mean even fewer workers will be needed.

This is the method of progress. What is missing is the quantitative social means in which to distribute those progressive values and societal improvements more equitably throughout the population. And capitalism is not the vehicle to accomplish this.

- And everyone knows it.....

He was way ahead regarding this issue and had an optimistic view of a sane way to take advantage of the inevitabilities that would be positive for everybody.

http://www.whywork.org/rethinking/whywork/rawilson.html

I've been reading a number of older RAW works and came across a site someone probably forgot about, with quite a few interesting pieces there.

- And I agree that he was not only way ahead on the issue of superfluous work, but in another realm altogether from where we're stuck.

Bucky was way ahead too:

And I agree with all that stuff. Wilson details some of the RICH economy stuff in the last Schrodinger's Cat book.

Both of them -Fuller and Wilson- inform my optimism, but I think translating the very real technological gains that are coming into a system like that will require some major mass mental restructuring of the way we view things. As the Fuller quote illustrates.

Instead of discussing raising the minimum wage, I believe we need to be discussing a national income for all adults. The amount may be negotiated, but it would be something over $1000/month. Automation has taken up a lot of We don't need more jobs like Buckminister says above. David Graeber talks about BS jobs, jobs that don't produce a productive product or service (e.g. marketers who try to convince you to buy stuff or convince you that you need stuff when you don't). In fact more jobs will mean that we need to expend more energy which may create rising costs, energy shortages, more pollution, more climate change etc., etc. We need to include the idea of a national income as part of our discussions (like we have been doing about living wage) so we can refine it and make it a reality. We don't need desperate people who are willing to take any job available, immoral or not, just to make a living or provide for their families. There is plenty that needs to be done to help people. Put people in a position to help. If your argument is where's the money going to come from, look how much we wasted on wars in the past 11 years. Money can be made available but we have to organize and fight for it.

That I think would be a necessary first step toward a Resource-Based Economy.

A long grind, coming.

Which means people are more likely to remain in denial. See also: climate change.

Everybody else, well...

...well, he finally found a good job, but it's a new company so you never know if it will fail or not...

He figured out that after he was laid off, the jobs in his career were now being offered at wages he was making 30 years ago.
As for me: I'm working freelance where I can, and have lowered my rate to an hourly-rate I made over 10 years ago.

It's pretty fucked up for the middle-class.
These bastards are getting exactly what they want, and yet, they're STILL not happy.
Figure that one out.
They want it all.

...to Japanese-speaking elderly and alzheimers clients - through her current employer - is being paid less, not an "adjusted for inflation" wage, than what she was getting paid 20 years ago from a different company, which no longer exists.

eom

We don't need more jobs. We need jobs that pay a living wage.

-Laelth

Let's get that out of the way up front: simple solutions are for the simple minded. For example, the oft trumpeted "raise the minimum" rallying cry. It sounds okay on the surface, but it doesn't solve anything. There are comparatively very few people earning the minimum now, and while raising it might benefit them, it hurts everyone earning above that level -- they get to watch perhaps years of efforts (clawing their way up from the bottom) wiped out in a single act of congress. Worse, for employers struggling to get by now paying minimum, it means cutting jobs. Perhaps not many, but these days a job is a job and every one of them is precious.

The sad reality is this: there are not enough jobs for all the people who need one. The Boomers are responsible for a huge swath of these with their Free Trade deals, but it would be a problem even without this. Technology has replaced a whole bunch of skilled workers with machines. Entire industries, employing hundreds of thousands, are now gone forever -- and more are on the way out. Soon even those picker-packer warehouse jobs so vilified on liberal websites will be gone, the ten an hour workers replaced by tireless and flawless machines. The same is coming in fast food. No longer will you have emo teens taking passive aggressive revenge on life by trashing and shorting your food. Your burger will be perfection, every time, and nothing forgotten. Call it job losses, super sized.

The big growth industry seems to be taking care of ancient and aging boomers, but given the way that generation fucked everyone who has come after them I doubt it's an option that appeals to many.

Are you, whatever your age, responsible for the bad things those your age in power are doing? I am frustrated that many of all ages are content to watch reality shows and cat videos, but I don't consider it the fault of me and others who have been attempting to change things all our lives.

You seem to buy into a lot of right wing economic nonsense, too. If I am making above minimum I am not "hurt" if someone worse off than I has an easier time making ends meet. Nice attitude there. And there's plenty of evidence that rising wages HELPS the economy--people with more money to spend raise demand for things for which people are needed to provide them, thus jobs.

And did you ever hear the term "sweatshops"? Some jobs are "vilified on liberal websites" for a reason. And teens have a lot to be disgruntled about these days, though many fast food workers are now older folks who can't find a better job...

If you are making 10 an hour and the minimum wage is 7, you are better off than you would be earning 10 with a minimum wage of 9. You (no doubt unintentionally) stated the reason yourself when you mentioned DEMAND, but in any case yes, you are better off earning three dollars over minimum wage than one dollar over minimum.

And yes, some jobs are vilified as being bad. Sometimes because they genuinely are bad, but as often as not because they are actual jobs requiring effort and work. People cry about those warehouse jobs today, but they will be crying a whole lot more when they are gone.

Speaking of work, I'm off to start another fifteen hour day.

It's not how far ahead of other people you are, it's what you can afford that matters.

Which is why five-hundred bucks is worth more in, say, Mexico (or Oklahoma), than it is worth in New York.

No one would be if they paid a FAIR and LIVING wage. And what do you mean, years of effort being wiped out by an act of congress? This isn't a competition. If those making less than you suddenly were able to make what you make, why would you begrudge them that?

How is someone making less than you getting a raise translate into you doing worse? Unless you start making less than you did before someone else got a raise as a result of it, I just don't follow your reasoning.

Not to be intentionally nasty, but that just sounds like you think that other people not doing poorly somehow damages you and comes off a bit like jealousy.

Another thing you fail to consider is that when the minimum is raised those above it tend to get raises as well as the only reason people pay more than minimum is to try to entice better workers, this is a proven dynamic.

If there were we would have solved these issues long ago. The people who claim otherwise, who offer simple solutions to these complex problems, are generally full of crap and taking advantage of people's trust and gullibility. Even something as seemingly simple as the minimum wage is actually really complicated. It's not a magical fix, it's the government injecting itself into the supply / demand loop that exists between employers and workers. And while this works to the advantage of some workers, it works to the disadvantage of others. Nor are the overall economic outcomes as predictable (or automatically beneficial) as some claim. All of which is why, despite all the rhetoric from both sides, no one is all that eager to make any kind of major moves.

and completely ignorant of economic theories (that were put into practice SUCCESSFULLY) using the Keynesian approach.
First, do some studying, it has become apparent that you have been exposed to extreme conservatism at a young age and just appear to say stuff you don't seem to understand.

I can't really discuss much with you until you learn a bit more, I will say I think you have been misled however and I don't necessarily think that was your fault.

Keep studying and discussing, I hope to be able to discuss more with you after a bit of seasoned research and experience.

But recommend a book, "mandates Work."

After you read it we can have a more informed discussion, because your post is right out of the local Chamber's arguments before council

You're wrong on every point. Including the Boomers, but I won't waste my time on you. I'll just feel sorry for you.

Get rid of H1-Bs instead of increasing them every year.

to reach the middle class and the poor until there are real jobs that pay a living wage. They can have their word dance with the press for as long as they want but until they start working to fix this mess for all Americans they are just lying.

unemployment? I would bet at a minimum the unemployment is at least twice that. Everything that is happening right now is being cause by the mathematical principle of Regression to the Mean. And for the mean to rise, we have to have just what you say. But I don't believe that will happen without a revolt now. The status quo is too locked in place. We are in uncharted waters. There is absolutely no reason for the rich to put money in this country when there are more fertile fields abroad. We will know in November what happens next. The result will be between bad and horrific.

It means "around 4% unemployment", generally. That's built into the system; there's an assumption that some level of unemployment is necessary as a structural control on inflation. See this for instance: http://www.theguardian.com/society/shortcuts/2014/apr/01/what-does-full-employment-mean-george-osborne-britain

When economists and policymakers say "full employment", they don't mean "0% unemployment".

"White folks' greed runs a world in need." - Jeremiah Wright

The 1% are fucking us in the ass with a rusty wire brush and telling us we like it.

what is being done and who is doing it. More will know very soon.

eom

there will be plenty of jobs for RWingers but hiring of minorities and women will go back to the 50s and 60s. Mark my words. The banksters and other money puppeteers are just waiting for this President's term to be over so they can release their hoarded money back into the system and use that to show that Obama was not a good President and that the US should never ever elect another black man to office unless it wants to suffer the fate of the last 8 years. They mean it and they will do it. Just like all the neo-con experts who lied us into war in Iraq they will revise recent history and even though we have lived through it, we won't recognize it. Remember...they make their own reality...we just watch.

That we still have Fed rate at near zero and QE means there is still very significant slack in the job market.

never mind that they are not working.