I would have called 911 in spite of her order not to do so.

Why didn't they?

And did the patient have an advanced directive?

I would have called 911 anyway. I can't imagine not doing so.

but if their supervisor was that young I am betting that they were very young too. I would have called too, no matter what age I was.

Why would Ms. Mobley tell them not to call 911? It's no skin off her back.

Like you mentioned, why would a 22 year old who is not an RN or DR be in charge of making these kinds of medical decisions? She also violated the standing orders of the doctor.

Why is this investigation taking so long?

not to allow expenses to go up?

Obviously she lacks sufficient judgment and experience to be in any position that puts people's lives in her hands.

And the facility is sticking by her so I am going to assume it's part of their procedure.

The ability to realize that she held elderly lives in her hands. Age does matter in some cases.

Empathy's not quite the right word, but it ties in with judgement, like you're saying.

My grandma spent the last 20 years of her life complaining about various ailments, and understanding where she was coming from was sometimes challenging. Knowing when she needed actual medical intervention and when she just wanted attention was tough. Also, understanding her frustration at her declining health is something that I doubt a 22-year old could really grok.

It fits the situation perfectly.

Medical care takes years to get really good at. A 22 year old nursing assistant is in no way qualified to be making those kinds of calls.

They move on to higher paying jobs.

whether you're in an assisted living facility or elsewhere.

The point is that nobody with that level of training or experience should have been in the position that young woman was in. I blame the people who put her in that position. She lacked to qualifications necessary to be making judgement calls of that type. She should have been the person asking whether to call 911, not the person deciding.

However, even calling 911 at his first sign probably wouldn't have saved his life. Hemorrhagic strokes have a much poorer outcome than embolic (blood clot) strokes and his age was against him.

And yes, I can't believe a 22 year old NA was put in charge of the place. That needs to be changed. Somebody with a license would have noted signs and symptoms she simply wasn't educated enough to see. At least a licensed, educated staff member might have saved the home the need to fight a lawsuit, although the outcome for Mr. Burrows would have been unlikely to change.

help a stroke victim but it has to be administered within a certain amount of time and that time frame is not that long. If that is true then this idiot's incompetence could very well be deemed incompetence. Erring on the side of caution and calling 911 is a much better decision then practicing medicine without a license.

and it would have made him bleed a lot more.

supervisor in a nursing home?

OH YEAH, she would be a cheap employee.

she was promoted to EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR...WTF?

The others who followed her instructions were at least as responsible. The man was in trouble and deteriorating and they obviously knew it. At that point, the call should have been made whether they had "permission" or not.

developed for seniors who were healthy enough to be living semi independently, able to drive and manage their own affairs. She had to go up the chain to get him looked at.

Written protocols are no substitute for having one educated and licensed person on staff. A 22 year old nurse would have known what was going on pretty quickly.

Last edited Sun Jun 22, 2014, 12:51 AM - Edit history (1)

They had the opportunity to help the man and piss off an unreasonable supervisor, simply by pushing three little buttons. I can't believe the whole pack wasn't charged along with their supervisor.

I can't believe people like Mobley can be so cold and inhumane like this.

If an ambulance had come and a DNR had been in effect, would they have still taken him to the hospital?

Having a DNR does not mean you don't offer treatment, especially to a man able to walk to the station and complain of having pain.

How would a DNR apply?

Whether he went unconscious with the stroke soon afterwards.

The thinking is that most of the residents will be in bed and asleep and not much care is needed.

But it seems to me that most issues happen in the middle of the night or immediately upon waking up. I certainly could be wrong about that. It just seems that way.

There are those of which I am familiar that are not allowed to touch residents even to help them up after falling.

In our area they don't employ [trained] medical staff 24 hours per day.

They rely on taxpayer funded ambulance services for routine transports to hospitals.

These companies don't mind charging resident's $4,000.00+ per month, but also rely heavily on taxpayers for actual medical and transportation needs.

Just another corporate subsidy....

Finally, nobody can be told they cannot call 911, this event is a failure on multiple levels involving multiple individuals.

Makes me wonder about the others.

If so, that's piss poor medical procedure and would lead to litigation against the facility. It's hard for me to believe that she would have refused 911 all on her own authority, but I guess anything's possible. I would think an RN, even a 22 year old RN, would have called 911, orders or no orders.

Very sad.

about protocols, denying that permission was not asked, and contending it wasn't necessary. A particularly smelly blind eel has fizzed to the surface, here.

that it's an unwritten rule they do not call 911 without supervisor's permission.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/25832473/nursing-home-administrator-arrested-after-patients-death

E V E R.

The idiot 22-year-old is mostly to blame. But someone could/should have defied her. If they were fired for doing so, it would be a good idea to SUE the damn facility owners for their deadly bullshit policies.

in charge of a assisted living facility. Which they probably did because they could pay her less than a more mature, better educated, more experienced professional.

From an article at Channel 10 news, Tampa.

http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/local/polkcounty/2014/06/20/assisted-living-facility-employee-arrested/11202849/

"We at Grace Manor are stunned at the arrest of Ms. Mobley and the way this matter has been handled. From the beginning, we have cooperated fully with investigators over the past year and were led to believe that the matter was coming to resolution," said Sara Brady, a spokesperson for Grace Manor.

In addition to allegations that Mobley told employees not to call 911, charges which she denies, Mobley told them not to give him his prescribed medication, which she "did not have the authority to violate orders of the doctor."

Mobley has since bonded out of jail. A reporter went to her Winter Haven home in an attempt to talk to her about the charges, but was told to talk to her attorney.

Since Burrows' death in April 2013, Mobley has been promoted to executive director at Grace Manor, but the Attorney General's Office investigation found that she is not certified by the state to hold such a position.

"Since the death Mobley has been promoted to executive director"...what the hell? Someone who's being investigated for the death of a resident is promoted? She should be on leave until the matter is resolved, I certainly wouldn't want her in charge of making decisions for my loved one.

Having worked in group homes, not exactly assisted living but still caring for medically frail people, even when a nurse wasn't on duty there was always an RN on call to contact with questions. Whenever we felt someone could be in trouble we never and I mean never hesitated to call 911. If there is a policy against this at the facility in question they most certainly need to be investigated

That's what happened. She was promoted to exec director after that man died.

this obviously must be about the worst place on the planet for taking care of seniors! To promote someone while an investigation is taking place about their questionable decisions that could've led to someone's death is morally reprehensible.

I'm wondering about the state regulations regarding assisted living in Florida, perhaps they could be that lax? I'm not a big fan of Florida, my elderly parents lived down there for about 3 yrs. and moved back. They hated the Dr.'s, medical facilities, everything. My mother told me of an experience where she called her Dr.'s, office with a question and got charged a fee.

Nursing home facilities should be a priority in Florida as well as assisted living homes....but they do not seem to be.

There is a chronic shortage of beds at rehab/nursing homes....they are supposed to be fixing the problem but I doubt it with Rick Scott in charge.

who she's the daughter/granddaughter/niece/in-law of...

either that or she gave good bj's to the right people.

This comes down to a combination of her qualifications and the choices she made. If she was not qualified to hold that position, then her employers also contributed to Burrows premature death.

However, I do think age could matter greatly when dealing on a personal basis with the elderly. There are some at age 22 who would have empathy enough to be effective, but far too many would not. So age is not irrelevant here, not in this case.


From an article at Channel 10 news, Tampa.

http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/local/polkcounty/2014/06/20/assisted-living-facility-employee-arrested/11202849/

"We at Grace Manor are stunned at the arrest of Ms. Mobley and the way this matter has been handled. From the beginning, we have cooperated fully with investigators over the past year and were led to believe that the matter was coming to resolution," said Sara Brady, a spokesperson for Grace Manor.

In addition to allegations that Mobley told employees not to call 911, charges which she denies, Mobley told them not to give him his prescribed medication, which she "did not have the authority to violate orders of the doctor."

Mobley has since bonded out of jail. A reporter went to her Winter Haven home in an attempt to talk to her about the charges, but was told to talk to her attorney.

Since Burrows' death in April 2013, Mobley has been promoted to executive director at Grace Manor, but the Attorney General's Office investigation found that she is not certified by the state to hold such a position.

22 year olds would not have empathy for the elderly?

That's some screwed up thinking there, I think.

People either have empathy or they don't. Age has nothing to do with it. I've never thought that teenagers or those in their early twenties generally didn't have empathy for the elderly and have no idea why anyone would believe that.

That kind of thinking isn't just screwed up it's ageist. I'm curious if the OP would admit that they themselves had no empathy for the elderly at the age of 22 or if they think they were one of what they believe are the magically enlightened few that did at that age.

I'd be curious to know, too.

As if you think her age is the reason for this, and it seems you are broad brushing young people as irresponsible and not able to be in a position of authority. For someone who got so upset at 'ageism', one would think you would avoid engaging in it yourself.
So i guess you weren't really mad about ageism then.

I will get my "defense" post ready to repost with additions if necessary. First read the edit to the OP with the bolds to my original words.

There is not a single thing to post about here anymore without being attacked by someone for something.

That's all.

I will get that post ready to put in my journal with my defense against all accusations.

I will reread it now.

Just asking.

Perhaps enough is enough. There are enough quotes in that post to make my point 10 times over.

They are in my journal. You can link to whatever you want to link to. If you want to discuss i can provide proof that what i was saying has been discussed in liberal circles for years.
Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote an excellent piece describing those things as have many other black liberals. And white liberals. I posted a few recently.
One was http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025072693
Then this:http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025084965
This one too:http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025084425
And here:http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025065109

So post that post if you want to continue.

My recommendation is to leave it alone now.

I found that remarkable and i wanted to figure out why my saying old and white in a sentence made so many of that description so angry. I figured it out thanks to those intelligent folks.

If I have to continue to fight accusations of racism and ageism to stay at DU, then watch me. I will do so.

This is childish stuff. You know I am neither racist nor ageist. Why do you keep doing this?

should I repost the previous battles here or start a new post? Think about it before you start something.

I though i was being civil. Enjoy your day.
Btw, post whatever you want to post. I wont be alert stalking you today or any other day.
I have grown a very thick skin in the past couple of weeks. Anyone can go and read any post of mine since i don't delete them. I gave my honest perspective of how i see the future and the past.
If you want to do another trash Bravenak thread, have at it. It's your world, i just live in it.

I just live in it, too.

What "trash bravenak" post are you referring to? If you want to continue this please post the link.

the AA group does not function on the same rules as other groups.

similar ageist replies in the thread. Yeah, you did claim in at least two other posts (and I haven't even read anything more past this point in the thread) where you agree that her age means she lacked empathy and where you flat out state that most people of her age have no empathy for the elderly.

I'd really like to know whether at the age of 22 you yourself had no empathy for the elderly or if you believe you were one of what you claimed were one of the very few at that age that did.

I would assume someone 22 yrs. old would not have had a lot of experience in the work world. Usually being the executive director of a facility would involve experience in a lot of different areas, such as supervisory skills, knowledge in running a facility, scheduling, crisis intervention, conflict resolution, appropriation of funds, etc., not to mention education.

Even for a very mature 22 yr. old it's hard to believe they would qualify for an executive director position.

I know 22 year olds who have finished college and are very very professional and always follow protocol. Many 22 year olds are raising multiple children and keeping them safe and well fed. I was caring for my own grandmother at that age and she died a year after i moved out of state because my aunt forgot to get her meds before she went on a turn around to Laughlin. I, as young and 'unqualified as i was, always managed to call Rite Aid and get her meds ordered and walked to pick them up.
We need to see if she followed procedure and if there was leeway in the rules for her to use her own judgement. A fifty year old may have done the same thing if the rules dictated to handle situations in that manner. There have been many incidents where the person in charge was much older and quite incompetent, and some where patients have died when they shouldn't with an older medical professional supervising.

Thanks, bravenak!

I was thinking the same thing. Heck, I even recced her thread before I really knew what the whole damn kerfuffle was about. But, now saying far too many 22 year olds don't have empathy for the elderly is wrong on so many accounts.

yes, tehre are probably some 22 year olds who could do the job well but in most cases this would not be true just because experience matters a lot in some jobs. just doing the same job will give people time to face things they might not have thought of so if it happens again when they are in charge they can be prepared better.

and of course there are older people who might suck at the job . but there is nothing wrong with saying a job like this should require much more.

and the same goes for old out of touch bigots . there is nothing wrong with pointing out that those in certain generations do tend to have certain views more than others. this doesn't mean every single one of them does or that there aren't younger ones with horrible views.

i get your point with the response though.

So feel free to bring it on.

become Executive Director of an Assisted Living Facility? And why on earth would they even ask for permission to call 911? A total failure by the facility's ownership, this woman and the entire staff. I see an expensive law suit in their future. That facility needs to be thoroughly investigated with the potential to lose it's license. I wonder what other sh*t has been going on that has not been reported.

I would be concerned about leaving a relative in their hands.

I went back and read an earlier post and saw that the woman was promoted to Executive Director after the patient's death? That is totally unbelievable. I would vote to shut this place down.

Especially if she does not have any advanced degrees.

What gets me is she was *promoted* after the man died. She should have been dismissed.

While they were being investigated for her actions, they promoted her to exec director.

In an arrest report investigators said last April, Burrows complained to staff about stabbing pain in his eye. Witnesses said Mobley wouldn’t give approval to have Burrows taken to the hospital, even after the 80-year-old’s condition worsened.

Staff members told investigators it was their policy to get permission from Mobley before calling 911. Eventually, they told investigators they disobeyed those orders and made the call but it was too late.

...Documents show Mobley was actually promoted to the executive director position after the incident last year. Those reports also say Mobley doesn’t have the certifications for that position, but the assisted living facility seems to be standing behind Mobley.

The facility released this statement: “We believe the court will agree with us that the allegations against Ms. Mobley are without merit.”

Meanwhile family and friends of the 80-year-old devoted family man and reverend say they’ll continue to remember his love for people and ministry.

When she cannot produce a damn thing, the judge should order Grace Mansion to dismiss with extreme prejudice Mobley without any chance of getting a damn dime, and should be suing her for the death of Burrows.

I find it particularly disturbing that the aging population is doomed to suffer at the hands of under qualified medical charlatans such as this young woman who used extremely poor judgment and had way too much authority.

There are also some comments on this thread that show appalling ignorance about maturity and age. I will do some further research and perhaps write about it.

and ability to think through complex problems does matter if you are in charge. Most human beings don't fully mature their brains well into their mid 20's-early 30's. I work with a lot of young teenagers and young 20 year olds at my other job and I can say that they are capable of brilliance at times, but they still do need guidance.

biggest issue. There are very talented hard working teens and young adults out there. But to be put in charge of a facility like this really speaks to the person who put her in that role. That should be an accessory to negligent homicide charge imo.

had a family member down there in a Morton Plant hospital.

It is all such a racket. Granted that people get old and they do die (and sometimes there are several causes of death with organs just shutting down) - but it seems like some of these caretakers (anyone from home health aids to social workers to doctors) develop a very cavalier attitude. This example of course is an extreme - and I would like to see a charge of negligent homicide.

that whoever is left in charge should need permission for that. I would be curious to know why she did not call when they finally did give permission? I wonder what the state rules and regs are for this type of housing are? Each state has their own rules and that should determine who gets promoted. I wonder if the name indicates that this is a church run home?

That's the way I understand it. They called anyway. There are many ads locally promoting the Grace Manors here, and they refer to the fact that their church refers people there. I believe the one on Lake Hunter used to be for retired ministers...not sure now. I do think there is/was a church connection.

out of very expensive nursing homes and institutions to cheaper community housing that is often privately owned. The problems start when the states also give up the right to make and enforce rules regulating these smaller facilities.

In MN this would include licensing the facility, setting staff requirements and pay levels, etc. The facility my daughter is in is such a situation. The county social worker is required to visit the home 2 times a year and also receives full reports 2 other times. The state has a pay scale and a continuing education program for both the owners and staff. It works very well.

I would never stay in a facility run by anyone under 40. Only those nearest in age to those needing help are sensitive enough to listen to and care for anyone who's not their family.

Care is a personal and professional ethic. Standards of care should be nationalized. Neglect should be subject to immediate dismissal.

They pay crap and mostly get people right out of nursing school, as soon as the person has experience they are out. Plus people who are in their 40's lack the ability to do the physical stuff required by these jobs, there is a lot of lifting and physical work needed. Until these facilities pay their employees as much as a hospital no one will stay in them longer than they have too.

precious last days to. As for the heavy lifting part, there are orderlies for that. No one like her should be allowed near any old age care facility.

in assisted living facilities have to do the lifting, their shoulders, backs and wrists are all messed up. The facilities don't spend the extra money on getting orderlies.

When I retire I am going to do it in Thailand, currently you can get an assisted living place there for under $400 a month and they don't call it Assisted living they call it the Privilege Living. It's pretty sad when you can live out your days in a tropical environment being treated kindly and with respect at a 10th of what it costs to do it here in the States. I also looked at India which has some really beautiful facilities, the British have been retiring there for over a 100 years and it's cheaper than Thailand but I like the beaches in Thailand.

the supervisory staff would not be the one's doing the hands on work and in particular the executive director which Ms. Mobley was promoted too.

I knew someone who was promoted to supervisor when she was an RN with a Bachelor's degree and about 20 years of experience in ER, ICU, Cardiac ward, and nursing home care. She also had years of teaching/training experience. Whenever a patient was sent to a hospital it cost her facility money (they had to hold the bed for a certain period of time but could not collect for the patient's care), so she had to justify it to her superiors. BUT she had the expertise and experience to know what to do. She also trained her staff to know when to call 911 on their own.

There were times when she bucked the business's protocols, and I suspect she resented having to explain herself to superiors whose expertise was finance and not medicine, but she was passionate about her job and put patients first.

at all.

How does someone with a nursing assistant certificate become "executive director" a senior center at age 22? Is it that they are so unwilling to pay a competent, experienced administrator that they hired an inexperienced person? How in the world could she get a job like that?

But interesting jury...

I said WTF in hopes of getting them to explain further, but Juror # 6 has their head up their ass - it is simply not fair to surmise this gal got her job via sex - Juror # 7 gets it right - no evidence of that

as if there was on other possible way a young gal could be in a position of authority (when I was 22, I was a sergeant)

But it doesn't have anything to do with her age or not having a degree.

Let's see what happens in court.

EDITED TO ADD: I'm sorry for the man's family. And, I regret I didn't note that before the edit as this should be what the story is about.

As I said in the OP which I edited because of the now attacks on me......a person that young with poor judgement should not be in that position.

As to degree, I do think that it is important to have the proper education to be executive director of a facility like that.

I never cease to be stunned here lately at the way posts are interpreted.

It's like.....well let's see how I can demean this post and this poster with stuff I know they are not saying.

But yes, the elderly are important. They count. And those put in charge of them should be qualified.

discussing things with you. That is why you posted this, right? For discussion?

You said earlier, way too many that age do not have empathy for the elderly. I think you are wrong. Empathy is usually not something you grow into. You have it, or not. And the majority of young adults I know, have it. I'm sorry if you are around young adults that do not.

Of course the elderly matter. I took care of one from 19 to 24. Not because I had to, but because I wanted to. I didn't have a degree in the elderly either. A degree does not teach you empathy. And, in her position, she was not treating the elderly. She was following directions from the degreed higher ups. Why do you think they are standing behind her? I think because she was following her job description that they wrote for her.

Again, I don't see anyone demeaning you. I just see me, and others, discussing with you.

WTF is going on in Florida???

Florida just gets pointed out here more.

What state do you live in so I can look up some stories for you?

Do your worst!

and regulations. I live in Minnesota. And since I have worked as a social worker inspecting facilities for both the elderly and the developmentally disabled I know that young lady would never have been promoted to the level she was in here.

it's very unlikely you'll be able to dig something up as insane as happens regularly in Florida due to shit repuke governance, in Vermont.

had a stroke and laid in her nursing home bed for 11 hours before an ambulance was called. She had a stroke during the night and when they checked on her the next morning she was too weak to swallow. They wrote her up for refusing to take her meds. No one called the family during that time. Her son arrived at the nursing home on a regular visit and called for an ambulance. She survived the stroke and the pneumonia that developed later (in a hospital). Later, the nursing home's explanation was that she had signed a DNR order when she checked in and they were following her orders. She lived another 18 months in appalling condition. Sad. She truly suffered.

Also, neither age nor training impacted her outcome. It all had to do with insurance and law.

My mother who's in her 90s got pneumonia two years ago and after a hospital stay, her doctor asked her to go to a supposedly reputable nursing home for two weeks of supervised recuperation. I imposed one condition: that I be allowed to go with her 24 hours a day and sleep next to her at night in a chair. The nursing home reluctantly agreed and needed the business. I therefore got a detailed inside look as to what takes place in such a place. It was appalling and very sad. And this was a well-advertised and promoted facility located not far from the beach in California. Two days after my mother arrived, half the patients caught a bad stomach flu that caused vomiting and diarrhea and my mother was placed on a liquid diet for three days. The CNAs came down with the same ailment and at night there was virtually no staff. My mother spent 6 hours in her urine and feces because the facility didn't hire fill-ins for their sick nursing assistants. I pleaded with the night nurse to clean my mother but she refused. I discovered that contrary to the way things work in hospitals, where nurses and even the wing's charge nurse get involved in every task when they are short-handed, the policy in nursing homes is that the nurse only dispenses medication and supervises but does not touch the patient's body. I wanted to clean her myself but I was prevented from touching my mom by the nurse because the facility's insurance prevented any non-personnel from doing anything with patients.

My mother's doctor wanted her to have physical therapy in the nursing home. Physical therapy was 15 minutes twice a week, with a therapist who thought of herself as a stand up comedian and never stopped telling jokes to her entourage of friends who followed her around. She did virtually nothing with my mother except crack jokes.

The doctor ordered an inflatable mattress for my mother because of her bed sores. That mattress stayed for 10 days in a corner of the room while daily I pleaded with the nurses and the administrators to set it up.

The nursing home decided to clean the curtains around my mother's bed and took them down. Unfortunately, there was an extremely bright light from the hallway that was on 24 hours a day and the nursing home's policy would not allow me to close my mother's room door. It took the facility one week to bring back the curtains and so my mom had a bright light shining in her eyes the whole time. I would move my mom's bed sideways so she didn't face the light. Every time I left to go home to take a shower or go eat, the nurse moved the bed back. I went ballistic with the administrators, who told me that policy required aligned beds in every room.

After two weeks, I had eight pages of notes about what terrible things I saw in that place. The floors were almost never cleaned and the cleaning workers told me it was typical, because the administrators at these types of facilities are always under-staffed. The nursing home was required to post a book containing a compilation of government regulation violations for the public to see. I found it located behind a post near the lobby. It was extremely thick, containing violation after violation. The facility had a government rating of "1" on a scale of 5. I was told by one of the CNAs that this was typical and that this facility was better than most. From the outside it looked pretty nice.

Among the dozens and dozens of outrageous failures I wrote about in my notes was how my mother was treated when she checked out. She still suffered from dangerously low blood pressure when she left for home and her doctor ordered a prescription of blood pressure raising medication. The nurse asked me what pharmacy I wanted to use and faxed a copy to Walgreen's. At the time I wasn't aware that Walgreen's didn't accept military veteran's Tricare insurance. When Walgreen's told me they couldn't fill the prescription they said they couldn't give me a copy of the prescription directed to them (to go to another pharmacy) and suggested I drive back to the nursing home to get another prescription. When I went back to the nursing home minutes later, the nurse said my mother's file had been sent to storage and nursing home policy didn't allow it to be retrieved to obtain another copy of the prescription for any reason. She basically said to "fuck off" even though my mother needed this medication desperately. It was a week-end and I had to track down my mom's doctor in his home to write me another prescription.

I resolved that I will never go to a nursing home. If I get real old and sick, I'll find a cabin up in the mountains and die in peace, as far away from assholes in the nursing home field as I can get.