General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumscatholic hospitals and women's health care (trust me, it is not pretty)
in response to a question in another thread, I looked up some of the issues regarding the fact that the catholic church is now, in many cases, the sole health care provider in an area, and what that means for women, to share that information.
. . .
"When you go into a hospital or an ER, you do not think that there's a bishop between you and your doctor," says Linda McCarthy, CEO of a Planned Parenthood branch in western Washington. In 2010, Peter Sartain, a prominent bishop recently enlisted by the church to crack down on nuns deemed too liberal, was appointed to the Seattle diocese. Not long afterward, he told the Catholic hospital in McCarthy's area to stop performing lab work for Planned Parenthood that the hospital had handled for at least a decade, including tests unrelated to abortion, such as cholesterol screenings. McCarthy publicized the demand and the hospital backed off, for the time being.
"The Catholic bishops are seizing an opportunity to control the health care we all pay for, and they're being wildly successful," says Monica Harrington, the co-chair of Washington Women for Choice. A spate of proposed deals could leave Catholic facilities accounting for 50 percent of the state's hospital admissions. "We could very well end up with three conservative bishops overseeing health care for 6 million people," McCarthy says.
Abortion services are always quick to go when a Catholic hospital takes over, but the changes go much further. In many cases, doctors are prohibited from prescribing birth control, and hospital pharmacies won't sell it. Doctors may even be told not to counsel patients about it. Catholic hospitals have been reluctant to offer emergency contraception to rape victims, and when they do, they first require a pregnancy test to ensure the woman was not pregnant before the assault. The bishops' guidelines forbid tubal ligations and vasectomies. They also extend to end-of-life care: Catholic hospitals may ignore patients' requests to be removed from feeding tubes or life support, even if those wishes are expressed in living wills. And many states allow religious hospitals to discriminate against gays and lesbians, both as employees and as patients.
. . . .
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/10/catholic-hospitals-bishops-contraception-abortion-health-care
pr.org/blogs/health/2013/12/02/248243411/aclu-sues-u-s-bishops-says-catholic-hospital-rules-put-women-at-risk
http://www.freep.com/article/20131202/NEWS06/312020076/Catholic-hospitals-miscarriage-ACLU
. . .
A public-health giant
Catholic hospitals provide care for 1 in 6 patients in the United States; they are, collectively, the largest not-for-profit health care provider in the country. As secular hospitals merge with Catholic ones, many health care organizations and the communities they serve are on edge. In Washington state, for example, mergers mean that nearly half of hospital beds are in facilities controlled or influenced by the church, and in many regions a Catholic hospital is the sole provider. Nationwide, Catholic health care providers grew by 16 percent from 2001 to 2011. The number of secular nonprofit hospitals dropped by 12 percent in that period; the number of public hospitals fell by 31 percent.
Catholic health care providers are bound by the Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services, a document issued by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops that governs how health care providers should deal with reproductive issues, end-of-life care, the spiritual responsibility of Catholic health care and a variety of other concerns. The range of womens health care options that Catholic facilities offer is limited sometimes, like when a pregnancy goes wrong, to a deadly degree. And while most doctors have an ethical obligation to inform patients of all their options, Catholic facilities routinely refuse to offer even abortions necessary to save a pregnant womans life; their doctors are also barred from telling a patient with a nonviable pregnancy that there are other, often safer options available elsewhere, lest the patient seek care at another facility. (LGBT patients may also run into problems, whether it is with hormone therapy for transgender patients or simply the right of married same-sex partners to be treated as next of kin in making health care decisions).
. . . .
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/2/dangers-of-a-catholichospitaluntold.html
. . . . .
So many things are galling about Phoenix Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted's excommunication of Sister Margaret McBride, a member of St. Joseph's Hospital Ethics Committee, for approving the termination of the life-threatening, 11-week-old pregnancy of a 27-year-old mother of four that it's hard to know where to begin. But surely one of the most urgent issues this case raises is the danger faced by any woman who sets foot in a Catholic hospital in the midst of a reproductive crisis.
Just to recap, late last year a critically-ill pregnant woman was brought into St. Joseph's suffering from pulmonary hypertension. Her pregnancy posed such a burden to her heart and lungs that carrying it to term almost certainly would have killed her. Sister Margaret approved the decision of the physicians, the patient, and her family to terminate the pregnancy.
When Olmsted learned that this procedure had taken place, all hell broke loose. Without a scintilla of empathy or sympathy for the dying woman and her family, Olmsted said: "The direct killing of an unborn child is always immoral, no matter the circumstances." Since the abortion was not "indirect" (i.e., the byproduct of another procedure necessary to save the mother's life, such as removing a cancerous uterus), the correct moral action, according to Olmsted and the Phoenix diocese, was this: Let the mother and the fetus die.
We do not know how often such decisions come up in Catholic hospitals. Nor do we know if any go the other way -- that is, the beliefs of the Olmsteds of the Church prevail and discharge is followed by a funeral. What we do know is that Catholic hospitals, charged with abiding by the Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services, pose a real danger to women's health and lives.
"One of the most troubling areas is in the treatment of reproductive emergencies," says Lois Uttley, director of the MergerWatch Project, which works with communities facing Catholic-non-Catholic hospital mergers to preserve reproductive health services. A miscarriage in progress is an example of the emergencies Uttley is referencing. When it happens so early in pregnancy that the fetus cannot survive, the pregnancy has to be terminated quickly. Unfortunately, explains Uttley, in some Catholic hospitals, this isn't what happens; the fetal heartbeat has to stop before doctors can do the procedure.
. . . .
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/angela-bonavoglia/reproductive-crisis-do-no_b_602086.html
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)niyad
(113,302 posts)where the character's sister is going to die if the docs don't perform an abortion, and the guy refuses, with the "it's god's will" crap. I was horrified all those years ago, and apparently nothing has changed.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)niyad
(113,302 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)It is not a neutral decision to seek aid from a religiously affiliated institution. Reproductive services aren't the only ones at issue, but they are often the most glaring examples of the difference in medical care.
niyad
(113,302 posts)hospitals. sometimes, the catholic hospital is the ONLY one in the area.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Medical care is the arena we're discussing here but religious groups are often the only place for people to access social services too.
Large religious-affiliated social service organizations administer programs funded with state and federal aid and operate under restrictions on keeping the programs secular for participants but the line is often unclear to the participants. As an example, if the program is administered by Catholic Charities those who aren't Roman Catholic may be hesitant to seek services there specifically because they believe that the program itself is faith-based.
niyad
(113,302 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)niyad
(113,302 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)This has been an issue that's been flying under the radar for far too long!
niyad
(113,302 posts)flying under the radar.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Unfortunately, to virtually no response:
Legal Challenges to the HHS Mandate:
http://www.becketfund.org/hhsinformationcentral/
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Cut off the government funding and there will be a change. Just as in years past if a state did not change their desegregation then federal funds was cut. When there was a decision to lower the speed limits they was going to cut highway funding. money gets attention. The catholic hospitals are for profit.
niyad
(113,302 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)But she is for taking away a women's choice. I don't think the funds will be cut either especially with our current political make up. This would make it difficult for others living in the area. One question if you know, are these decisions being made in heavy read states?
niyad
(113,302 posts)that mississippi is one of the worst in this regard.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)BTW, I am not against Catholics, I am for women's right to make their own choice.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)This might shed some more light on where women's health rights are most endangered:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4763474
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024418216
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024936542
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024986404
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)birth control. These needs to step back in their cave and let us live our lives. GOP, for smaller government but can't stay out of our bed rooms and doctors offices.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)niyad
(113,302 posts)RainDog
(28,784 posts)And the person assumed I was a male and asked if I had the balls to admit this pope never said women should be barefoot and pregnant... when the reality is church policy promotes that exact thing.
The thing that irks me is that 80% or so of those who i.d. as Catholic don't even follow the teachings.
Most of us aren't content to live with that kind of hypocrisy as part of our lives - especially when it harms other women.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)so it all balances out in the end.
Really good thread.
Sid
niyad
(113,302 posts)organization is of any importance.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)niyad
(113,302 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)I consider the Christian Right a direct and present threat to the nation and world.
There will be no meaningful change in this Babylonian cult.
niyad
(113,302 posts)the fundies here, or elsewhere. it is only a matter of degree, not kind.
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)in the middle east, even more backward.
What's the solution?
niyad
(113,302 posts)hue
(4,949 posts)Hmmmm, how to get rid of them (belief systems) considering most societies are rife with patriarchal governments/tribes, religions, business & financial institutions, educational systems, judiciary systems etc...
~for my three grand-daughters
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)and must do it BEFORE they become sexually active. Each family should also have an emergency financial reserve....just in case.
Having female children can be risky these days since we can no longer count on any assistance from the government or even medical professionals..
valerief
(53,235 posts)niyad
(113,302 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)niyad
(113,302 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Catholic hospitals are growing. What will that mean for reproductive health?
burnsei sensei
(1,820 posts)Quote:
The bishops' guidelines forbid tubal ligations and vasectomies. They also extend to end-of-life care: Catholic hospitals may ignore patients' requests to be removed from feeding tubes or life support, even if those wishes are expressed in living wills.
end
If the treatments are clearly indicated, I find this legally and ethically indefensible. Catholic bishops should be subject to strict ethical sanctions, at least as strict as those of doctors.
Where they work in hospitals or are in authority over hospitals, they should be subject to the same ethical standards as doctors.
This kind of license on the basis of religious authority alone should be criminal.
Period.
What is wrong with subjecting parochial religious figures to ethical standards?
If we do not exact a price for criminal indifference to suffering and death, these abuses will continue.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)One of the little known facts about Catholic hospitals is that when you go in with an ectopic pregnancy (a pregnancy in which the embryo implanted outside the uterus, usually in the fallopian tube - which is not viable and is very dangerous to the woman), they will not remove the embryo (something that is done through the simple administration of a drug), but will remove the entire tube (surgically). The reasons behind this is that in removing the fallopian tube in which the embryo had implanted and which is now threatening the woman's life, they are not "technically" performing an abortion, but just removing a diseased organ. In removing just the embryo (medically the far more logical option), they'd be performing an abortion, according to their views. I find this very strange. The result either way is the same for the embryo (and in any case en embryo that had implanted outside the uterus can almost never develop into a baby), but it is far more risky for the woman to have her tube removed, plus it will impede her future fertility.
I am past my childbearing years, but I would never want to go to a Catholic hospital if I had an ectopic pregnancy. I have a cousin who had two, and the doctors simply removed the embryos. She was sad, of course, but these were not viable pregnancies. She went on to have 3 healthy children. She also happens to be anti-abortion, but she does not consider the removal of ectopic pregnancies to be abortion. Go figure.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)bought out a hospital on LI where I lived. The women of the town tried to fight this to no avail. They became the sole hospital within a 15 mile radius.
Outcome? Women did not want to give birth there because many women wanted their tubes tied after they gave birth to their FINAL child. They asked their doctors to give them another choice, and they went elsewhere. The Catholic Hospital COMPLAINED that their Maternity Ward was EMPTY. Duh?????
Then there were Rape Victims who could not get the Morning After Pill/contraceptives in this hospital. The local police department took rape victims routinely to the STATE HOSPITAL 15 miles away so the victims could at least have a CHOICE in whether they wanted to conceive a rapist baby. My then 15 year old daughter had a friend who was raped, and taken to the State Hospital, where she was given contraceptives to prevent a conception. NOT going to happen at this Catholic Hospital.
Very, very bad situation, but at least the WOMEN, and Police, fought against a forced hospital theocracy.
Freddie
(9,265 posts)Abington Hospital (Philly burbs) is a highly regarded regional center for high-risk pregnancy and birth, and fertility treatments. The occasional abortion is done for reasons of maternal or fetal health or adverse genetic testing.
About 3 years ago there was a proposed merger with Holy Redeemer Hospital down the road. The Boards of both facilities were about to sign the papers with **no input from the community or even the physicians**. Doctors found out and all hell broke loose, it got all over the news and even a Facebook page was started to protest the merger. They knew there was no way they could continue their women's health practices to the best of their ability under Catholic "moral guidelines"; even though Holy Redeemer promised they would not interfere, the doctors knew better. In short order, the Abington board stopped the merger.
AnnieBW
(10,426 posts)Several years ago, I was having some female problems that were not in any way related to pregnancy. My gyn (whom I respect) recommended that I have an outpatient D&C. Unfortunately, he only did those at the local Catholic hospital (Holy Cross in Silver Spring, MD). They asked me about 6 times during the intake procedures if I was pregnant. I was like, um... no, I've got abnormal bleeding.
This is also the procedure that I woke up from, asked if George Bush was still President, and asked them to put me back under.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)The RCC is a horrible institution that has caused untold human misery for centuries and it belongs in the dustbin of history.
niyad
(113,302 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)when they called them "D&Cs". Even the Catholic Hospitals were on board.
CrispyQ
(36,464 posts)Thanks for posting.
mopinko
(70,103 posts)shit went downhill when they shunted the nuns off to the side in catholic health care.
my mom worked her whole life in a catholic hospital. they had the rules and all, but those women all had hearts and brains.
illinois ag has cracked down on charity care, cuz apparently they need to get beat over the head these days to cough it up.
http://illinoisissues.uis.edu/archives/2009/09/charitycare.html
hue
(4,949 posts)This is a great OP! Thanks for this compilation of articles!!
niyad
(113,302 posts)there. google any variant of "catholic hospitals treat women". very depressing.