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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFormer Senator Howard Baker Jr. died, he was a good man and good Republican.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)He had a good sense of honor and duty, along with no small measure of political courage.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)RIP to him and best wishes to his family during this difficult time. It is a shame that the Republican party does follow his philosophy. I just don't know why the Republicans have to be so angry all the time. It can't be good for the heart or the mental health. Such a shame because I do believe that both parties could work together and get things done, but the Republicans just don't have an interest at all.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)This video is one of the few times, that I'm in agreement with Ted Koppel as to why Republicans are so angry.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=199123
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Thankyou for your long dedication to public service.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Ordinarily I wouldn't speak ill of the dead, but this thread demands a response.
Baker, during the Watergate hearings, was secretly working with the Nixon administration to kill the investigation. He was tipping them off as to strategy and witnesses. Hardly the activities of a "good man".
I'll grant he was a good republican, but that's not a compliment.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)How do you believe Baker was secretly working with the Nixon Administration to kill the investigation?
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/09/25/it_happened_here_NSA_spied_on_senators_1970s
For years the names of the surveillance targets were kept secret. But after a decision by the Interagency Security Classification Appeals Panel, in response to an appeal by the National Security Archive at George Washington University, the NSA has declassified them for the first time. The names of the NSA's targets are eye-popping. Civil rights leaders Martin Luther King and Whitney Young were on the watch list, as were the boxer Muhammad Ali, New York Times journalist Tom Wicker, and veteran Washington Post humor columnist Art Buchwald. But perhaps the most startling fact in the declassified document is that the NSA was tasked with monitoring the overseas telephone calls and cable traffic of two prominent members of Congress, Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho) and Sen. Howard Baker (R-Tenn.). As shocking as the recent revelations about the NSA's domestic eavesdropping have been, there has been no evidence so far of today's signal intelligence corps taking a step like this, to monitor the White House's political enemies.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)From an AP story, July 7. 2007:
"In a meeting later that day in the Old Executive Office Building, Baker assured Nixon that Thompson was up to the task. "He's tough. He's six feet five inches, a big mean fella," the senator told Nixon.
Publicly, Baker and Thompson presented themselves as dedicated to uncovering the truth. But Baker had secret meetings and conversations with Nixon and his top aides, while Thompson worked cooperatively with the White House and accepted coaching from Nixon's lawyer, J. Fred Buzhardt, the tapes and transcripts show.
"We've got a pretty good rapport with Fred Thompson," Buzhardt told Nixon in an Oval Office meeting on June 6, 1973. The meeting included a discussion of former White House counsel John Dean's upcoming testimony before the committee."
---
Recall that it was Baker who selected Fred Thomson as minority counsel. He did it for a reason: to help Nixon at every turn. Don't be fooled by Baker's charade.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)Baker was the one who first asked, "What did the President know, and when did he know it." That doesn't sound like he was trying to kill the investigation.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Baker was trying to limit the investigation and coordinated with the White House. This is a FACT.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)brought out the revelation that Nixon was taping, by directly asking Butterfield the question.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Butterfield
When Nixon was re-elected, Butterfield was appointed on December 19, 1972 as administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration. He was routinely asked to appear before the United States Senate Select Committee headed by Sam Ervin and was interviewed by staff of the committee on July 13, 1973, prior to going before the Senators. John Dean had previously mentioned that he suspected White House conversations were taped, and the committee was therefore routinely asking witnesses about it. Butterfield did not want to voluntarily tell the committee of the system, but had decided before the hearing that he would, if asked a direct question.
As it happened, Butterfield was asked the direct question by the minority (Republican) counsel, Donald Sanders. He told the staff members that "everything was taped ... as long as the President was in attendance. There was not so much as a hint that something should not be taped."[3] All present recognized the significance of this disclosure, and Butterfield was hastily put before the full Committee on July 16 to put the taping system on the record.Chief Minority Counsel, Fred Thompson, notably asked "Mr. Butterfield, are you aware of the installation of any listening devices in the Oval Office of the president?"
It may be hard to believe but being a good Republican doesn't necessarily mean that you're a bad person or American.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)From the same AP piece:
"What rarely is mentioned is that Thompson knew the answer to the question before he asked it. Investigators for the committee had gotten the information out of Butterfield during hours of behind-the-scenes questioning three days earlier, on July 13.
Thompson was not present, but a Republican investigator immediately tracked him down at the Carroll Arms Hotel bar where he was meeting with a reporter. Thompson called Buzhardt over the weekend to tip off the White House that the committee knew about the tapes."
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The Nixon White house wanted Thompson to make the information public before the majority did so. It was damage control, not an attempt to get to the truth.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Butterfield
When Nixon was re-elected, Butterfield was appointed on December 19, 1972 as administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration. He was routinely asked to appear before the United States Senate Select Committee headed by Sam Ervin and was interviewed by staff of the committee on July 13, 1973, prior to going before the Senators. John Dean had previously mentioned that he suspected White House conversations were taped, and the committee was therefore routinely asking witnesses about it. Butterfield did not want to voluntarily tell the committee of the system, but had decided before the hearing that he would, if asked a direct question.
As it happened, Butterfield was asked the direct question by the minority (Republican) counsel, Donald Sanders. He told the staff members that "everything was taped ... as long as the President was in attendance. There was not so much as a hint that something should not be taped." All present recognized the significance of this disclosure, and Butterfield was hastily put before the full Committee on July 16 to put the taping system on the record.Chief Minority Counsel, Fred Thompson, notably asked "Mr. Butterfield, are you aware of the installation of any listening devices in the Oval Office of the president?"
Donald Sanders asked the question that mattered, not Fred Thompson and apparently as "All present recognized the significance of this disclosure," There was no going back from this point.
As for your WAPO article it actually argues against Kutler's belief that Baker was just attempting to point out that the "evidence hinged on one witness's word."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/07/AR2007070700568_pf.html
WASHINGTON -- Fred Thompson gained an image as a tough-minded investigative counsel for the Senate Watergate committee. Yet President Nixon and his top aides viewed the fellow Republican as a willing, if not too bright, ally, according to White House tapes.
(snip)
Nixon was disappointed with the selection of Thompson, whom he called "dumb as hell." The president did not think Thompson was skilled enough to interrogate unfriendly witnesses and would be outsmarted by the committee's Democratic counsel.
(snip)
During Dean's testimony, Baker asked the question that became the embodiment of the Watergate scandal: "What did the president know and when did he know it?" Thompson is sometimes credited with supplying the question to Baker.
The question was widely perceived at the time as an example of Baker's willingness to press for truth at the expense of his party's leader. Historian Kutler, however, said he believes that in the context of Dean's testimony, the question was Baker's attempt to point out that the evidence hinged on one witness's word.
If a "not too bright" 30 year old counsel Thompson already knew that Nixon was taping everything in his office, you can bet that a much smarter, Senate minority leader Baker who held secret meetings with the White House knew as well and if Baker knew, the question of "What did the President know and when did he know it?" becomes a trap for the Nixon Administration, as opposed to a "making it all hinge on one witness's word."
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Baker wasn't holding secret meetings with Nixon to trap Nixon. That is the MOST NAIVE claim I've ever run across.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)nothing in that alone suggests Baker was working on Nixon's behalf.
To the contrary, Baker's question (What did the President know and when did he know it?) which some contend was supplied by Thompson; who you and the WAPO claim knew, Nixon was taping everything does nothing to help Nixon.
Such a question can only lead to increased complications in trying to cover up a lie from different witnesses.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)"Fred Thompson Aided Nixon on Watergate"
Published July 07, 2007·
Associated Press
----
Remember Thompson was hand picked by Baker to be minority counsel and they both worked with the Nixon gang to control the investigation.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)Lars39
(26,109 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)I didn't have a link, because I had saved it as a file on my PC years ago. I'm kind of a packrat for political ammunition.
There are other sources as well, but the AP story covers the basics.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)Too much disappears down the rabbit hole these days. That's a very informative article! Baker had that old Andy Griffith aw shucks kind of personality that let him get away with a lot.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)People who had a hand in harming so many people I loved are not on my list of the righteous.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Baker's demeanor fooled a lot of people, but if you paid close attention to his real actions, you could see what he really was.
Shivering Jemmy
(900 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)with the Senate, much due to Donald Regan's caustic demeanor and attitude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Baker
Known in Washington, D.C. as the "Great Conciliator", Baker was often regarded as one of the most successful senators in terms of brokering compromises, enacting legislation, and maintaining civility. A story is sometimes told of a reporter telling a senior Democratic senator that privately, a plurality of his Democratic colleagues would vote for Baker for President of the United States.[citation needed]
(snip)
Baker did not seek re-election in 1984. He received the Presidential Medal of Freedom the same year. However, as a testament to Baker's skill as a negotiator and honest and amiable broker, Reagan tapped him to serve as Chief of Staff during part of Reagan's second term (19871988). Many saw this as a move by Reagan to mend relations with the Senate, which had deteriorated somewhat under the previous chief of staff, Donald Regan. (Baker had complained that Regan had become a too-powerful "Prime Minister" inside an increasingly complex imperial presidency.) In accepting this appointment, Baker chose to skip another bid for the White House in 1988.[12]
(snip)
In his later years Baker served as Senior Counsel to the law firm of Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell & Berkowitz.[14] He was also an Advisory Board member for the Partnership for a Secure America, a not-for-profit organization dedicated to recreating the bipartisan center in American national security and foreign policy. Baker also held a seat on the board of the International Foundation for Electoral Systems, a non-profit which provides international election support.[15]
Raine
(30,540 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)James Baker-- 1981-85 (left to become Treasury Secretary)
Howard Baker-- 1987-88
Raine
(30,540 posts)William769
(55,146 posts)I lost a lot of friends in the 80's.
I will never forget.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)Reagan did call on Howard Baker to become his Chief of Staff after his relations had deteroriated
with the Senate, much due to Donald Regan's caustic demeanor and attitude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Baker
Known in Washington, D.C. as the "Great Conciliator", Baker was often regarded as one of the most successful senators in terms of brokering compromises, enacting legislation, and maintaining civility. A story is sometimes told of a reporter telling a senior Democratic senator that privately, a plurality of his Democratic colleagues would vote for Baker for President of the United States.
(snip)
Baker did not seek re-election in 1984. He received the Presidential Medal of Freedom the same year. However, as a testament to Baker's skill as a negotiator and honest and amiable broker, Reagan tapped him to serve as Chief of Staff during part of Reagan's second term (19871988). Many saw this as a move by Reagan to mend relations with the Senate, which had deteriorated somewhat under the previous chief of staff, Donald Regan. (Baker had complained that Regan had become a too-powerful "Prime Minister" inside an increasingly complex imperial presidency.) In accepting this appointment, Baker chose to skip another bid for the White House in 1988.
(snip)
In his later years Baker served as Senior Counsel to the law firm of Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell & Berkowitz. He was also an Advisory Board member for the Partnership for a Secure America, a not-for-profit organization dedicated to recreating the bipartisan center in American national security and foreign policy. Baker also held a seat on the board of the International Foundation for Electoral Systems, a non-profit which provides international election support.
Baker took the job to bring moderation to what was left of Reagan's Presidency.
William769
(55,146 posts)him. Also it was made clear by this commission that no Homosexuals would be on the commission. Yes at the time Howard Baker was Chief of Staff. He help set the tone for AIDS that was just as good before he took the job which was despicable.
Here's a link to give some background on the appointment. http://www.nytimes.com/1987/06/26/us/hospital-official-to-lead-president-s-aids-panel.html
Sorry but the only tears I will shed are for the victims (yes victims) of that tyranny administration.
That's all I will say on the subject now.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)From GWU's National Security Archive:
Washington, D.C., September 25, 2013 During the height of the Vietnam War protest movements in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the National Security Agency tapped the overseas communications of selected prominent Americans, most of whom were critics of the war, according to a recently declassified NSA history. For years those names on the NSA's watch list were secret, but thanks to the decision of an interagency panel, in response to an appeal by the National Security Archive, the NSA has released them for the first time. The names of the NSA's targets are eye-popping. Civil rights leaders Dr. Martin Luther King and Whitney Young were on the watch list, as were the boxer Muhammad Ali, New York Times journalist Tom Wicker, and veteran Washington Post humor columnist Art Buchwald. Also startling is that the NSA was tasked with monitoring the overseas telephone calls and cable traffic of two prominent members of Congress, Senators Frank Church (D-Idaho) and Howard Baker (R-Tennessee).
SOURCE: http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB441/
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)I believe that was the right thing to do and Howard did it despite knowing it would damage his chances at running for President in 1980, the Republicans were livid.
that is certainly interesting.. thanks!
Hekate
(90,674 posts)Thank you for your service to the country, sir.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Baker and his appointee Thompson weren't secretly coordinating with the Nixon White House in order to "trap" Nixon. They were doing everything in their power to short circuit the investigation.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)"If the President wants to hold secret meetings with a Congressional Leader, he may do so,
nothing in that alone suggests Baker was working on Nixon's behalf.
To the contrary, Baker's question (What did the President know and when did he know it?) which some contend was supplied by Thompson; who you and the WAPO claim knew, Nixon was taping everything does nothing to help Nixon.
Such a question can only lead to increased complications in trying to cover up a lie from different witnesses."
What proof do you have that Baker was doing everything in his power to short circuit the investigation?
Hekate
(90,674 posts)RFKHumphreyObama
(15,164 posts)to putting the national interest above partisan politics. His congressman father, was I believe, one of those who refused to sign the Southern Manifesto in the 1950s. When Baker ran for the senate during the height of the civil rights debate, he was one of those who didn't seek to use racial politics for cheap political gain. He worked constructively with the Carter Administration over issues in his roleas Senate Minority Leader and, both in this role and as Senate Majority Leader, showed a consistent interest in fairness and bipartisanship during his time in the Senate. It's an awful shame that he didn't get the Republican presidential nomination when he sought it in 1980 -to say he would have been a much better President than Reagan is the biggest understatement of the year. A really, really decent man and a great American. We need more like him on both sides of politics. RIP, Howard Baker
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)had that been the case.
Peace to you, RFKHumphreyObama.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)http://www.mercurynews.com/obituaries/ci_26041349/politicians-reflect-death-sen-howard-baker
"Howard was many things over the course of his career - from Senate Majority Leader, to White House chief of staff, to ambassador. Yet, it was his ability to broker compromise and his unofficial role as the 'Great Conciliator' that won him admirers across party lines, over multiple generations, and beyond the state he called home." President Barack Obama.
"Senator Baker was partisan, but he was patriotic. And his patriotism rose above his partisanship. Senator Baker earned the respect of Democrats as well as Republicans. He worked in a bipartisan way with presidents and colleagues on both sides of the aisle." Roy Herron, chairman of the Tennessee Democratic Party.
"Howard and I worked together and traveled together, and we became good friends over the years. He was one of the best Majority Leaders I've ever served with. He was honorable, he was tough, and he was fair." Vice President Joe Biden.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-howard-baker-partisanship-watergate-mcconnell-20140626-story.html
(snip)
But Bakers death is also a reminder of something important thats seemingly been lost in American politics: politicians who are willing to put the countrys interests above their own, and their partys.
Baker was not naive about politics. In 1992, he said of Watergate: I believed that it was a political ploy of the Democrats, that it would come to nothing.
But heres what set him apart from todays rabid partisans: But a few weeks into that, it began to dawn on me that there was more to it than I thought, and more to it than I liked.
It was to Bakers great credit that he followed through on those misgivings, despite the damage Watergate ultimately did to the Republican Party. As The Times story Thursday on Baker noted: The answers doomed the presidency of Richard M. Nixon and sealed Bakers reputation as that rare find: a thoughtful politician who, as one reporter suggested, had nothing at heart but the interests of our country.
There is more on the link including a reference to Mitch McConnell.
Hekate
(90,674 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Senator Baker was probably the last living example of a moderate Republican senator...of the type once exemplified by Mark Hatfield(Oregon), Dan Evans(Washington), Jacob Javits, Margaret Chase Smith, Millicent Fenwick, and Edward Brooke, to name just a few.
Their political species is now extinct, and we, as a nation, are massively the worse for it.