~kick.

Sex is serious business, but it is a gift.

and try to avoid it as much as possible. Not a gift when you are always being coerced!

even those who don't like sex are freer. Because in a world in which birth control is commonly used, lots of people have no or only one or two children, and the person who really doesn't want to have sex or children is not an anomaly. No one thinks upon learning that an asexual person does not have children, "Wonder why?" We assume that it is a normal thing, not outside the boundaries of statistical likelihood.

I quite agree that nobody should ever be coerced into it.

Joyful sex, like other sources of joy, bring us closer to the Creator. We are intended to enjoy life.

I kid.

So is parenthood. It is to experience the deepest love imaginable on earth. And sex is a part of that. I believe that is why we experience pleasure in human touch and sex as an extension of that touch. We are created to want and need sex. It is our reward not just for creating children but for living in families. Affection and its natural result, sex, tie a married couple together. Sex is the key to unlocking trust and intimacy in a relationship. Sex also reflects what is going on in a marriage or relationship.

Hopefully a sex therapist or marriage counselor will join this conversation.

sexual. No problem from me.

...are Her rituals."

And it also gets better with age, believe it or not! Thanks,kpete.

Then it gets worse.

And with age and in my experience with a long-lasting relationship, that package gets better and better as a couple develops patience with each other.

But how could Catholic priests possibly understand this unless they truly look into the hearts of their parents? And that is a hard thing to do for many people.

After more than 20 years of being together... It does not. Necessarily get better and better.

Behind closed doors, the greater number of the most religious bible thumpers are engaged in who knows what and with who know whom. And that is a fact. How often do we see stories surface about this or that super religious person, often a member of the the clergy, being arrested for sex crimes or crimes that occur incidentally while engaged in pursuing sexual activities. Just tune into the ID channel on cable and they have a whole show devoted to preachers who committed murder because of their sexual pursuits. I don't see this whole thing as being about whether sex is a pleasurable activity for people. It is about control and raw power. It is about trying to put the poor in their place. Who is likely to be poor? Women. Women with children. How do we get those children?

The right wing zealot is a hot mess right now. How do these people reconcile the belief that every sperm produced by every male has the God-given right to impregnate an egg with all of those babies born and require care (money)? You don't. You blame all of those Eves out there who exist just seduce and trap good Christian men, either in marital or extramarital arrangement. Walking, talking masses of contradictions trying for force a societal order to preserve power that is slipping away.

crap goes back to so-called "original sin" and the name, shame & blame that Eve supposedly wrought upon the world. Men, of course, would always be upstanding and perfect without the temptations that women provide. Not.

There are so many contradictions in the zealots' beliefs - how and why anyone actually chooses to believe those contradictions is WAY beyond me. How any WOMAN does is literally insanity.

How could a so-called omniscient all-powerful all-perfect Creator have created beings so intrinsically imperfect in the first place? A weak-willed man and a curious woman ... even those with a two-digit IQ might imagine something like that.

Why were two different beings ever created in any event? The "for companionship" thing-y just doesn't hold water. A same-sex companion could have worked. Heck even a dog or a cat could have worked - in some cases, animals actually provide better "companionship."

This so-called Creator also created genders in non-human species and those non-human species apparently pro-created (i.e., had sex - not always with issue) like mad without any penalties. Why would this same so-called omniscient Creator never imagine that humans might get the same idea - and not necessarily just from a tree with a serpent and so-called "forbidden fruit"?

It is all about POWER and always has been. That. Is. All.

In recent days I was finally able to understand that this is exactly the right response. A woman should not be made to feel shame for enjoying sex, full stop.

I've seen the argument that contraception, The Pill in particular, should be covered like Viagra or Cialis. Although I agree that contraception should be covered, I resisted that analogy because I didn't see it as preventing or treating a medical condition, but I was flatly wrong in this.

The better answer, I now understand, is that women should have access to contraception--access to sex--if they want it, and fuck you if you use your obscene, obsolete morality to get in their way.

I regret that I have been a poor ally in this fight, but I take comfort in the fact that my impact was likely trivial, and I feel like I've finally got my head screwed on straight about it.

Doesn't matter what she wants or thinks or needs to have the best psychological health as well as the best physical health. Undermine or invalidate those wants and needs and it makes it easier to dehumanize women, imo, and then easier to get anti-woman legislation passed.

Glad you've thought it through.

Why? You actually changed your mind about something. That doesn't happen often when people have strong, long held beliefs.

There are also physical conditions that worsen and can become fatal if there is any more strain on the body, and carrying to term is a strain in every possible way, especially if it's an unwanted pregnancy. As the right to terminate a pregnancy gets more and more restricted, carrying to term may get to be the only realistic alternative for some women to using birth control.

I find sex to be kind of gross.

I'm 50 and haven't done it in about 7 yrs. I'm so happy now!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist

I am serious, though, somewhat. I'm certainly not suggesting that how I 'do' sex is 'right', what I mean by 'wrong' is that you've perhaps just not yet discovered the scenario/method(s) that YOU personally find enjoyable?

Have you ever been deeply in love with someone? Because that part is often pretty key ... although it's also possible to be deeply in love w/someone you don't actually enjoy having sex with (less rare that some would like to admit, I think). For some, there also can be great joy in purely 'lustful' sex with someone you just find physically hot, regardless of 'feelings'. Trust me, I've enjoyed it both ways ... many, many times

Also ... have you considered that perhaps ... you've actually been having sex with the incorrect 'gender' of person? Serious question ... have you tried it with both men and women? I kinda think everyone should, at some point, just to 'make sure'. Esp. if you've tried it w/only one, and found it 'gross'. That's a bit of a ... I dunno ... sign? Just throwing it out there.

I don't mean to butt in or tell anyone what to do, I just kinda find it ... sad ... to hear from someone who (apparently) dislikes Sex. It's ... such a great, great thing (in my view). Guess you could say I'm a big, big fan.

But I find the bodily fluids thing nauseating and the whole act is always forced. I don't like being touched at the best of times. I never have. My wife tolerates this quirk and for that I'm extremely grateful. As to the gender thing...having been raped at 15 in an unprovoked attack, I'm definitely not on that page.

Other than on DU. I'm wishing you well.

...counter (re)productive?

At least, in our culture. What about lying, cheating, stealing, etc.? Those should define morality, not our sex lives (which is nobody's business). Chastity is a perversion of human nature; we are supposed to enjoy our bodies.

Lying, cheating, stealing are all perfectly acceptable, as they are merely ways to contribute to the bottom line of profit. The religion of this culture is money, pure and simple; it is all about acquisition, and to hell with whatever or whomever gets in the way.

We have become a people of incessant greed, uncaring and unfeeling towards anything other than "Gimme MORE."

I agree that's the way it is, but it's also the way that will kill us all. I'm too old to street fight any more.

Vasectomies and tubal ligation and hysterectomies be covered?

What will they do next? Outlaw sex after menopause. As a baby boomer I have sex regularly for pleasure.

But the best orgasm I ever had was when I hit bush's limo with a tomato on Jan. 20, 2001.


Cher

Fahrenheit 9/11

Thought I recognized you.

Try hiding that from everyone (parents, husband, dr, nurses) in the room.

Last edited Thu Jul 3, 2014, 10:48 AM - Edit history (1)

It is one of our primordial urges. I think a huge amount of damage has already been done to the human psyche, by people that want ALL of us to be ashamed about sex. AS IF it is something unnatural and evil.

"Frogwash I say. Censorship is bad for you and sex is good for you."

-Frank Zappa, debating rock record ratings back in 1985.


-90% Jimmy

Oh, wait. I don't believe any part of that.

never mind.

Is sex Dirty ???

Only if you're doing it right.

They hate people like you...they are jealous, they hate your power, your pleasure, your being so relaxed and cool...

Instead of having sex and enjoying it, why don't you buy a gun and do some shooting?
Why don't you go to Hobby Lobby and buy yourself a bag of confetti and a pointy hat, to celebrate the birth of religious fascism?

As great as the post is, your second paragraph is a masterpiece.

Creative criticism. If I did that sort of thing.

But that's just what the overly religious pretend to think.... even tho' they enjoy sex too.


And you may be in a minority..... a minority who is realistic about sex, what it is, why people do it and how it's not going away. I mean, hell! I'll bet you even think nudity is not dirty!


Besides, this ruling has little to do with religion and sex and a lot to do with undermining the ACA.

I'll believe Hobby Lobby's oh so sensitive religious beliefs when they stop buying from China. Otherwise, it's BS.

I think they've NOT enjoyed it, yet they know many others DO, and they know people SHOULD, but for one reason or another (religious upbringing filled with shame-talk about enjoying it, for example), they don't, and it makes them sad pandas.

And because of all the above, they desire to do everything they can to make sex as un-enjoyable for others ... as it is for THEM.

is people feeling it's not okay to enjoy sex, so they enjoy too much food instead? Just a thought.

The people in my family who are the most overweight are also those who spend the most time in church. I attribute it to the many potluck and other church dinners. People tend to eat more when they eat with other people. So maybe the social activities of the church cause the obesity.

But I think it would be interesting to do a study on weight and religious involvement. A study on weight and social involvement in general might be interesting too.

That's probably why you don't hear people arguing from the "sex is pleasurable" point of view.

Serious question. What are you talking about?

rather then pleasure, as the original post questions, is probably because those who are against the mandate parse it as being a matter of "personal responsibility".... all that "keep it in your pants" BS is hard to argue against if your starting with the claim that sex is pleasurable and desirable.

You are going to DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course life will be happier and fruitful. So since we are all going to die anyway, Your Body Your Choice.

This goes back to the puritanical "sins of the flesh" nonsense.

It's REQUIRED at least once to go out to a full blown audience participation of The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

than adoption would be nearly impossible due to a lack of available children.

I (sadly) have family and friends with 4 or more children that were not planned or intended. They like sex too.

they should shun and not enjoy sex by men because men fear other men's sexual potential.

The worst thought for most men upon breaking up with his girlfriend/wife is her having sexual contact with another man. In his mind, the woman is "his" and not to be looked at or even spoken to by another man, so he'll seek to make her ashamed of her feelings and attractions. Men do this to protect his own fragile self-esteem when it comes to sex and women of all ages pay the price for it.

I personally enjoy women who enjoy sex as much as I do, women who understand their own bodies and what pleases them, and approaches it was a zest. Women who have internalized this society's male-based sexual shaming tend to want to turn off every bit of light and leap under the covers before being seen lol.

I never felt that way---sex is to be enjoyed by all----not to depravity---but as a wholesome part of life ----no different than exercise ---yoga---dance ----and sharing a movie ---or making dinner -what happens --out of the bedroom is just as important too

I am serious about this---and if you believe that God or a higher power made us, designed our bodies, and made a woman's body with a clitoris---that has no other use than to produce pleasure, than my think on this is to go with the Creator and appreciate and honor that design. I am not trying to crude here --but quite pragmatic. The business of shaming people about sex has to stop and a good way to do it with the religious right is to put forth the question " if God designed this for pleasure , who are they to interfere with God's handiwork. "---I know this is Democratic underground , and we are supposed to be directing toward politics---but I think the misunderstanding about sex is part of the country's problem.

We've been cowering from it for too long, and it's cost us.

Some don't care much about it....

Aren't going around insisting that others 'not care about it' just as they don't, or shaming them for enjoying it, then ... no problem. To each their own, as they say.

You've just as much right to not enjoy it/not have it ... as I do TO enjoy it/have it.

Agreed?

The people who like sex don't imply that those who don't care much about it (asexuals, for example) are weirdos who need fixing, we can all leave in peace.

and I never needed permission from any fucking human being to use birth control.

their obsession with who's having sex with whom and why is creepy.

their obsession with virginity/purity is creepy.

sex between consenting adults can be a wonderful thing and we should not be ashamed of enjoying it. nor should people be ashamed of not being interested in.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

Perhaps they are perplexed

but those few instances in which I was sexually active, I did not appreciate being called a slut.

heterosexual relationships (and this includes sex) feel like an uphill battle against the patriarchy, and I'm just too tired to deal with that anymore.

but nothing against those who do, and, what's more enjoy it. good for y'all. I'm a little jealous, but happy for you nonetheless.