General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA pair of letters, one from Brian Eno and one from Peter Schwartz
As published together on David Byrnes website. My comment at the bottom.The letter from Eno (Biography here) begins:
Today I saw a picture of a weeping Palestinian man holding a plastic carrier bag of meat. It was his son. He'd been shredded (the hospital's word) by an Israeli missile attack - apparently using their fab new weapon, flechette bombs. You probably know what those are - hundreds of small steel darts packed around explosive which tear the flesh off humans. The boy was Mohammed Khalaf al-Nawasra. He was 4 years old.
I suddenly found myself thinking that it could have been one of my kids in that bag, and that thought upset me more than anything has for a long time.
Then I read that the UN had said that Israel might be guilty of war crimes in Gaza, and they wanted to launch a commission into that. America won't sign up to it.
Peter Schwartz's response (biograpy here) includes the following
So my generation and most of todays American leadership grew up with the Israelis as heroic good guys and Arabs/Persians as greedy bad guys. The younger generation, my son Bens age (24) have a much more balanced view. Israels behavior in their youth, the last two decades, has destroyed whatever moral standing the Israelis had with them. In addition the pro Israeli lobby in America has been very effective in the political arena and their Arab counterparts have been counter productive. So our leaders who group up with noble Israel and evil Arabs and supported by Jewish political contributions are unequivocally pro Israeli while young people are more divided as is at least some of the Jewish community. Eventually demography will win out as a new more skeptical generation comes to power, a generation for whom Israel will not carry the same moral weight as it did for their parents.
I dont think there is any honor to go around here. Israel has lost its way and commits horrors in the interest of their own survival. And the Arabs and Persians perpetuate a conflict ridden neighborhood with almost no exceptions, fighting against each other and with hate of Israel the only thing that they share.
/snip
So given that history and current reality and even though I believe the creation of Israel was a historic disaster, I am a member of the tribe, (perhaps its more pacifist, atheist wing) I find objectionable the unique singling out of Israel for condemnation. So if we are prepared to boycott, condemn, shame, etc, the Saudis, the Qataris, the Iranians, the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Russians, the Nigerians, the Taliban, the Venezuelans, the Zimbabweans, the Sudanese, the south Sudanese, the Central African Republicans, and lets not forget the Americans and the British, all of whom are as guilty as Israel, then I will join the demonstration. (Two small things that might help would be if the rich Arab states provided some funding and development assistance for the Palestinians and if the Palestinian government didnt steal all the aid.)
We find ourselves at a historic impasse. There is no way back. Israel will do whatever it takes to survive. They will not leave. And the Arab identity has become opposition to Israel. It will be centuries, if ever, before they accept the existence of Israel. So both sides will always rightly feel threatened. There will be no other state there but perpetual tribal war with an occasional truce. And in that perpetual state of tribal war there be ample opportunity for horrors on both sides. We can only hope to lower the level of violence, but true peace will remain illusive.
The terrible toll being inflicted on all parties is not aided by partisans of one party issuing apologetic excuses for inhumane acts and weapons. All parties to this conflict need to be called to account.
malaise
(269,054 posts)but the terrible toll here is mostly on one side
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Israel, playing the victimhood to the limit, claims that Israel is forever in mortal danger because some group or other doesn't want to recognize them. They use that overblown fear to justify despicable acts of brutality against an overwhelmingly out-gunned opponent.
At this point in time there is absolutely NO existential threat to Israel. ZERO. There is no power in the region capable of defeating Israel. Hamas? What a joke, they've got missiles that can't hit a target 10 miles wide. Egypt? They aren't going to fight Israel anytime soon, they've got enough troubles at home. Syria? LOL. Hezbollah? Hezbollah can cause problems but has no chance of defeating Israel militarily. Iran? Please.
The only threat to Israel's survival is Israel itself. Israel's brutal, medieval policies are creating generation upon generation of enemies. As long as Israel clings to the West Bank land they grabbed in 1967, they invite conflict.
If the Israelis claim they own that land by right of conquest, that logic allows Israel's enemies the right to take it back by conquest if they can. It is a recipe for perpetual warfare.
Blame in this conflict needs to be apportioned based on civilian body count. Right now, Israel is 1000 times more to blame than Hamas.
Indykatie
(3,697 posts)Perhaps their latest and most viscous entreaty is finally creating the blow back they deserve. Reasonable people are beginning to speak out and say ENOUGH. A hopeful sign I think is that we are seeing less defense of their actions from their supporters. I think many finally realize they have gone to far.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)History, though, isn't on your side. I think the defenders realize they don't have to defend anything since the world is going to let them do whatever they want to do.
MagickMuffin
(15,943 posts)BRIAN ENO
"Bone Bomb"
My
Body
So
Thin
So
Tired
Beaten
For
Years
Ploughshare
To
Bomb
So
Hard
Bone
Bomb
Bone
Bomb
Bone
Bomb
My
Town
So
Dusty
So
Dry
Buildings
Pushed
Over
Lives
Heaped
Together
Young
Girls
Dreaming
Of
Beautiful
Deaths
Popstar
Pictures
Above
Their
Beds
Above
Their
Heads
Troops
Everything
Stolen
Except
My
Bones
Now
I
Am
Only
Bone
I
Waited
For
Peace
And
Here
Is
My
Peace
Here
In
This
Still
Last
Moment
Of
My
Life
K & R