That's where you find them...so says a shrink our family saw for a while.. They lack empathy, and a conscience, and will readily lie, steal and cheat.

He also said that most hard core criminals in jail are sociopaths, but not all sociopaths end up in jail ..

My father, brother and uncle were all lawyers, brother still practicing. Yes, SOME lawyers are sociopathic/sociopaths but not ALL. I KNOW my own brother is not a sociopath. He is a great guy and a Democratic activist in north Florida.

If you didn't mean to broad brush ALL lawyers, my bad, sincerely.

There are a lot of jerks and a---h---s practicing law, and some really do go over the line. I had the unfortunate experience of having a couple of them as supervisors and a couple more as colleagues. Only one of them managed to get himself disbarred. He was a wife-beater on top of everything else, and it was his extra-curriculars that finally did him in.

There are plenty of good and decent people practicing, and I've had the pleasure of working with quite a few of them. I'm sure your relatives were and are in that category.

I was actually in law school years ago, and 99% of attorneys aren't doing it to save the world. That's fine, we all need to make a living, but as you said, the a-holes give the decent ones a really bad name.

Some of those tv preachers are especially psycopathic.

I maintain that since 1976 our only non-sociopath presidents have been Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama.

into our home, to "give him a fresh start and help with carpentry business". I expressed extreme doubt and misgiving, was tearfully told, by this guy, that he was now religious, would not be drinking, would only stay until he could find a place to live, would not be drinking in the house (son had problems with that, had been sober for three years). Classic sociopath. Lied ALL the time. Called me Mom. His own mother called me and said do not let him into your home, and I told her she was very un-motherly. Wish I had listened. He managed, for a time, to alienate me, my son, and grandson from each other, spreading distrust. I would actually catch him in lies, and he would smile sincerely, as if nothing happened. By the time I was able to get rid of him, my son had started drinking, lost his fine carpentry business, and went to jail for a few weeks, D&D. The guy cut a destructive swathe through my family, and still phoned from another state periodically, as if nothing had happened. Very charming guy, sweet talker. No conscience whatsoever. I finally told him that I would always hate him with a clear and burning clarity and would not hesitate to do away with him if if would not affect the rest of my family. He stopped calling.
If you suspect you are dealing with a sociopath, get the fuck away from them, they cannot be rehabilitated, you just need to protect yourself.

People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil Paperback – January 2, 1998
by M. Scott Peck

In this absorbing and equally inspiring companion volume to his classic trilogy—The Road Less Traveled, Further Along the Road Less Traveled, and The Road Less Traveled and Beyond—Dr. M. Scott Peck brilliantly probes into the essence of human evil.

People who are evil attack others instead of facing their own failures. Peck demonstrates the havoc these people of the lie work in the lives of those around them. He presents, from vivid incidents encountered in his psychiatric practice, examples of evil in everyday life.

more at link:
http://www.amazon.com/People-Lie-Hope-Healing-Human/dp/0684848597

Plus, there are the many more who "display traits of" but don't completely meet the criteria for an official diagnosis. That's a whole lot of people who often enjoy the freedom of action and power over others that being without a conscience enables -- and who often are drawn to work that gives them special power to manipulate, politics, psychology, religion, financial and other counseling, etc. Once I read about these personality types, so much became clearer and certain people from my own past leaped right out of the crowd of memories.

Alternet regularly flouts the AP style guidelines for professional news/opinion writing and uses stigmatizing phrases referencing characteristics of mental disorders when there is no reason to do this.

Now, what appears to be another round of prepping reader/activists to view political/economic opponents in psychiatric terminology.

And the prep in the excerpt contains no caveats about how sophomoric readings of the DSM might lead a person into mistaken thinking. About how, for example, determination of diagnoses of Antisocial Personality Disorder depend not only upon the presence of characteristic behaviors (which are also traits within the range of natural human nature), but also upon evidence of behavioral dysfunction manifest at fairly early stages of life...such as expulsions from school and early teen-age arrests/run ins with the law.

The use of matching games of an opponent's behavior to symptoms in the DSM to validate use of the name of a personality disorder for disparaging name-calling isn't clever scholarship, it is sophomoric.

The prep in this excerpt is also devoid of cautions about the potential harm of sophomoric name-calling in the name of edgy clever chauvinism.

Name calling in the interest of adding 'color' to stories is not only unnecessary, and unprofessional, name calling underwrites the validity of untrue stereotypes (mistaken thinking) and facilitates the slip into the acceptability of discrimination (bad behavior) against the mentally ill. This is why groups, who have historically been discriminated against, object to the use of stigmatizing/disparaging descriptors of themselves.

This is not really about the words, it's not really about demanding word-policing. It's about awareness...how readers, even readers on the left can have their attitudes and behaviors shaped/influenced by media.

And it's about noticing and asking why it is that some folks at Alternet give the appearance of getting a thrill out of being sophomoric name callers.

only for insurance coding. Diagnoses are a very gray area.

An obvious point but, you CANNOT diagnose anyone without a) an extensive in-person exam by b) a qualified mental health professional. Even psychiatrists get diagnoses wrong, even those with years of experience and training.

Seems many people who find the topic fascinating believe they can simply check some boxes and label/diagnose a person.

I offer shocking insights into the minds and actions of deranged serial predators in my book “Why We Love Serial Killers” which will be released on October 7, 2014. Pre-order my new book now, save 20%, and you won't pay until it ships in October

It's fair to wonder why that particular section was chosen for exposure to DUers.

The OP posts many articles from Alternet and that suggests that the OP endorses that source. Everyone must admit that the OP is a prolific poster who brings many things to the awareness of DUers. But the many posts from Alternet also often include stigmatizing language so often found in subject lines taken from Alternet also project those things into DUers reading, thinking and conversation.

Unfortunately, frequency of use is how stigmatizing/chauvinistic/bigoted language becomes normalized. Not because name calling is progressive or liberal, not because calling republicans mentally is is qualitatively different than declaring children trapped at the US border are vectors of disease, but merely because repetition simply makes what is repeated familiar. And familiarity slips into "Everyone does it. It's ok."

Populism is really not a standard used for establishing what isn't disparaging, discrimination promoting language re sexual orientation, gender, ethnicity, nationality, religion, etc. Populism as a standard sets up oppression by numerical dominance, aka tyranny of the majority.

So, whats with the liberals and progressives at Alternet that they so actively engage in catapulting misleading and sophomoric crap about mental illness into their subject lines and commentary? Is Alternet the political blog equivalent of America's funniest videos? Does it really need chavinistic crotch kicks to meet it's readers at the readers' level?

psychopath came back into usage. They ARE interchangeable.

I don't support using either term in politics, armchair long-distance incorrect diagnosis comes to mind.

When i went thru medical training, we were using "sociopath" as the new term. Now it seems we've gone back to psychopath.

written by experts in the field (my favorite is Robert Hare) those terms are either used interchangeably or they are 2 parts of the same spectrum.

I was married to someone who checks off every part of the AsPD list...mostly I call him sociopath but he's really a psychopath. However, it seems that using the term psychopath makes people immediately think you are exaggerating because they automatically think "serial killer", but if I call him sociopath, I get "Oh yeah, my sister was married to one." And so, I use sociopath mostly.

Sociopaths do not understand the difference between right and wrong. A sociopath can do the right thing, but generally only as a way to keep him or herself out of trouble. I know a rich sociopath who's main motivations are not to get sued, so as to lose his wealth, and not to go to jail. He will fuck you up and not understand how or why he is fucking you up, but he will also be generous, but only because it benefits him somehow. He does not know the difference between right and wrong, but will do the right thing if it saves him money and/or keeps him out of trouble. I have managed to stay in this person's good graces, by understanding that he is a sociopath, and generally keeping it shallow. And, he is VERY shallow. Many of the other people that I have seen who've dealt with this guy have gotten fucked over by him in some way. They do not understand that he is a sociopath, and try to believe that his motivations and reactions are "normal."

Psychopaths DO understand the difference between right and wrong, and will often choose to do the wrong thing because it gives them a thrill, and/or "power" over others. Psychopaths understand the "rules" of society, but simply choose to ignore them. Sociopaths do not understand the "rules" of society, and will follow them, or not follow them, depending upon what is expedient.

My 2 cents, and that's all it's worth.

The sociopath who lived with us - he did not think in terms of right and wrong, but more in terms of what could he do without getting caught or angering one of us. He just stared at anger with a blank face, and would act as if nothing had happened minutes later. He would actually be puzzled at anger. Very cold person, with a slick veneer of saying whatever he thought would curry favor or turn away suspicion or wrath. Pretty much like Patty Duke's Bad Seed.
The thing about a sociopath is that while you are not suspecting he would do something awful, or are thinking that of course he wouldn't do something awful - he just goes ahead and does something awful without hesitating, and his only concern is if he has gotten caught. And getting caught is just a calculation of what it does to his situation, nothing more. Very hard to protect oneself, because most human beings do not think in the same terms. It was sort of like living with a tiger. You never knew what he was going to do. It has been about ten years and I still hate him and would never let him in the door again, ever.
Expedient is a perfect word.
Your 2 cents is worth a dollar.

Good question, seems pretty overlapping to me. I regret things I did years ago, but I know it can't be helped and I've forgiven myself and made amends, etc.

Thanks for the reply though

on edit = I think it does depend on the actions taken by the person in atoning and learning and making peace and not doing the same thing over and over again when they know it is not acceptable behavior.

however, I am not an expert on sociopathy/psychopathy.

I am too, in that, I care for several patients who have some mental diagnoses.

For my own semi-neurotic reasons, I've been mostly undercover on DU for almost 10 years. I try to keep my mouth shut unless it's, imho, valuable

my contributions ... lol

which I think is largely accurate but a bit lacking in nuance, it seems to me that the business schools of this nation manufacture self-justifying psychopaths at an astonishing clip. Having been to law school, that attracts a fair number as well, though a lot of decent people go to law school, or at least did so in my day.

Never able to empathize or relate to emotion. Very big on outward appearance (behavior) but no attachment to anyone but those she gave birth to. Big on religion and pretends to be very proper, claims to be offended by swearing but you should hear her rant when she thinks no one can hear! She has serious control issues, feels the need to have complete control over as much as possible.

A real piece of work. Very self righteous and a total hypocrite of the first order.

Julie

a sense of self-protection and could be a learned condition (from accident or experiance), while a Psychopath is a condition someone is born with, they are actually missing emotional triggers or capability (or has a very minimal emotional capability) and thus has no concept of what emotion is; "feeling" is pretty much limited to physical experiences such as hunger, pain, or being tired.

Both can only experience a very narrow world with reference to their own thinking processes or personal scripting, they cannot "grok" that anyone else exists with their own thoughts, motivations, experiences, or emotions.
IMO, Sociopaths are the ones who are the ones to run into the criminal law far more than psychopaths, because for them, it's a matter of the drive, they are chasing an elusive, orgasmic or extreme thrill, rather than searching to try to feel something they don't have the capability to.
There are a lot of psychopaths out there who seem to be somewhat normal, quiet and perhaps even nice people with family and people who consider them friends who do nothing wrong - the psychopath who stays out of trouble is just existing in a carefully self-scripted life and not rocking the boat from the time they are born to the time they die. As opposed to sociopaths, who can't stay out of trouble or avoid hurting people because their personal experiance of feelings are more important than anything else in their lives.
I've met sociopaths, and two people I'm pretty sure were psychopaths, even though they had a careful illusion of a home life; the psychopaths were much easier to deal with than the sociopaths once you understood where their limits of emotion and outward understanding was. The sociopaths - you never knew what would set them off or trigger their shit-stirring.

At their most dangerous, Sociopaths are living for the thrill (for good or for bad), and Psychopaths might be searching for a thrill they are taught to look for, but can never experience.

Haele

The infamous John "Assrocket" Hinderaker of Powerline infamy. A textbook psychopath and a really frightening "human being."

Meant this as a response to JNelson.

When I read the first few signs, the first people who came to mine were the 30+ teabagghers in the House who are insisting on blocking everything no matter how much it benefits society, or even thenselves!!

The second group was the ones shown on TV the other day pickiting and harrassing people outside an abortion clinic.

All sociopaths/psychopaths are, by default, narcissists

but,

Not all narcissists are sociopaths/psychopaths

are narcissists. They literally believe the world revolves around them and their desires.

and have been diagnosed on the autism spectrum as Asperger's. I read a LOT.

by a therapist (we were discussing my ex being a psychopath or narcissist, and my narcissistic parents)

You can be a psychopath and have narcissistic tendencies...or not. It's not a given. Some are not narcissistic. BUT the 2 very often do go together. A friend of mine's ex-husband had to undergo a psych eval after he pushed her down the stairs (after 20 years of a 'happy' marriage with ZERO physical abuse) and he was diagnosed as having "Anti-social Personality Disorder with narcissistic tendencies" (verbatim).

Most narcissists are not sociopaths/psychopaths. They are far less likely to break any laws, are rarely violent and are overly concerned with outward appearances (a psychopath might work with an 'image' but will ditch it if it's not beneficial or if it becomes too much work to maintain) and will do anything to maintain their main image about themselves. Narcissists are all mememe when you talk with them, while a psychopath will want to talk about YOU (that's what makes them charming and makes them able to pick our your weaknesses).

Anyway. Some people believe it's all part of a larger spectrum, since all of the above lack empathy in some capacity (narcissists may be able to show empathy for things they themselves have gone through). Other people believe all 3 are distinctly different. Either way...all toxic people, without a doubt.

that is why he is talking about you. Learning your buttons so he will know which ones to push to manipulate you.

That is why I think they are narcissists because the motivation behind the action is still ALL about them (memememememe)

This why I say that although not all (in fact many are not) narcisisists are soico/psychopaths.

Due to the motivation behind the action ALL soico/psychopaths are, by default, narcissists.

the difference between NPD and AsPD when I said that. I see what you are saying though. Still, according to the experts you can be a psychopath without the narcissistic element. But the way you put it, it would be difficult or rare for that to happen.

because I have only a fundamental knowledge of psychology and that question has been in the back of my mind.

I would like to read textbook case about a psychopath without the narcissistic element.

That would be interesting to me.

Thanks, laundry_queen

it is appreciated. Nevertheless, I disagree with that other poster, in the context of the discussion that happened over there.

To me it's not that important, folks can read and make up their own minds, which is why I didn't argue the point over there.

bring up the asexual angle and, that gave me something to think about. Thanks.

(or witch, for that matter)?

the sociopath will be trying to con you out of your life's savings, while the psychopath will be trying to decide which wine would go best with you.

A sociopath will shoot you because you don't fit their imaginary world.

A psychopath will smile and shoot.

Borderline personality disorder (BPD) (called emotionally unstable personality disorder, emotional intensity disorder, or borderline type in the ICD-10) is a cluster-B personality disorder, the essential feature of which is a pattern of marked impulsivity and instability of affects, interpersonal relationships and self image. The pattern is present by early adulthood and occurs across a variety of situations and contexts.[1]

Other symptoms usually include intense fears of abandonment and intense anger and irritability, the reason for which others have difficulty understanding.[1][2] People with BPD often engage in idealization and devaluation of others, alternating between high positive regard and great disappointment.[3] Self-harm and suicidal behavior are common.[4]

The disorder is recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Because a personality disorder is a pervasive, enduring, and inflexible pattern of maladaptive inner experiences and pathological behavior, there is a general reluctance to diagnose personality disorders before adolescence or early adulthood.[5] However, some emphasize that without early treatment symptoms may worsen.[6]

There is an ongoing debate about the terminology of this disorder, especially the suitability of the word "borderline".[7][8] The ICD-10 manual refers to the disorder as Emotionally unstable personality disorder and has similar diagnostic criteria. In the DSM-5 the name of the disorder remains the same as in previous editions.[5]

more at link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

and then there is Madonna ...