Once she hooked up with Senor, it was clear who she bats for, so I don't listen to her.

I can't stand her, never could. Never could watch her show at all.

I think you should.

And a note about your claims to "due process." Tenure would be a procedural due process and property claim which is outweighed by the substantive due process the students claim....so I would be careful in invoking the phrase "due process" without understanding all the connotations involved. Frankly, the student have a greater claim to due process than the teachers, and so I would caution you in adopting that language.

The OP is using the term inartfully, and thus, conflating the issue of substantive due process of the students with the property rights of tenure.

cannot fire me because she does not like my hair style. There is a process to follow to document that I am not a good teacher. For the first two or three years of my employment, I could be fired for no cause. In fact, I did something my principal did not like my first year, and I reminded him that he could fire me for no reason. He did not do it. It was unrelated to my teaching.

small group reading?

expelled. Is that what you are talking about?

This lawsuit was bogus to begin with.

actually read the lawsuit, I have to say that I did not find the claims of the Plaintiffs to be "bogus."

Which specific claim of the Plaintiffs did you find to be "bogus?"

certain public schools are underserved.

The solution, of course, is for the teacher's unions to form new alliances with parents and students and taxpayers.

We ask them to read to their children daily. We take the kids on field trips to the library and ask the parents to follow up with using the public library. We send a book home nightly. One teacher with 20 to 30 students tries to get to all of them with some instruction on their level. We do much more as well.

$$$

Thank you for this. I really appreciate the information that you provide this community on the issues involving education.

The "war on public education" is both real and dangerous. The media fails to address its significance. It has less to do with the concerns about tax dollars, than it does with destroying the foundation of a constitutional democracy.

Again, I really appreciate what you bring to DU!

The "war on public education" is both real and dangerous. The media fails to address its significance. It has less to do with the concerns about tax dollars, than it does with destroying the foundation of a constitutional democracy.

I've been reading your stuff for years. I want you to know it hasn't fallen of deaf ears.

I've learned a lot.

I think it may be too late to stop things though.

Someone above mentioned it. They don't refer to it as that very often anymore, but the fact still remains that it was not really a grassroots movement at all.....it was funded and founded by billionaire reformers. Sort of like the "grassroots" group called Freedom Works...remember that?

It's faux astroturf, fake grassroots.

"Parent Revolution"? Not really. Not grassroots. Started by charter school companies.

Parent Revolution claims to call for increasing parental authority over public education. But as a longtime advocate of parents taking active roles in education both at home and at school, I find this organization’s message to be a fraudulent promissory note, asking parents to believe that — when their note is cashed with the parents’ signature — Julio and Jamal will learn to read.

....Parent Revolution? Not really. The organization was founded by a group of charter school operators led by Green Dot Public Schools, which already operates several schools in Los Angeles. Green Dot’s founder, Steve Barr, also served as chairman of Parent Revolution’s board of directors.

..."I next met up with the well-financed organization in Sacramento, where it shuttled a busload of wishful parents, wearing Parent Revolution T-shirts, to testify before the State Board of Education.

With funding from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the Wasserman Foundation, the Eli and Edyth Broad Foundation, the Hewlett Foundation and the Walton Family Foundation, Parent Revolution has more than enough dinero to keep up the rhetoric and the supporting antics. But that obscures real educational issues and keeps their followers from asking about the group’s real agenda, which unfortunately is all about charter schools, and not about Julio and Jamal or their sisters and brothers ever becoming educated.

However, the most important discovery made during this investigation was a sizable $50,000 contribution from the Eli and Edyth Broad Foundation to Parent Revolution on their 2009 990 Form. Corporate charter charlatan Ben Austin constantly states that his organization supports "parent empowerment" and is leading a "dynamic social movement" "committed to a kids-first agenda where parents have a real voice in their kids’ futures." Sounds very noble no? Well, in a rare lapse of candor, the Broad donation defines both the purpose of their contributions and Parent Revolution's raison d'être:

"To support efforts to help Charter Management Organizations apply for new LAUSD schools under LAUSD's School Choice Resolution"

This puts to lie all of Austin's bluster about a "kids-first agenda" and reminds us that school privatization and growing charter school market share is Parent Revolution's only agenda.

by much more resourceful entities, like the NAACP and the ACLU and other entities.

As Americans, we've accepted public interest lawsuits that are funded by those with political clout.

I think it's important not to alienate parents and students who have valid concerns. It's important that we not dismiss individual Plaintiffs. We need to capture the disenchanted, in effect, and keep them involved in the system.

What do you suggest these Plaintiffs do?

You said:

I want to caution you here.

Plaintiffs.

You have indicated that you think they don't "understand" what they have done. And you've been asked to explain why you think that.

I know that you MUST have read the Complaint that underlies this OP. How would you deal with the claims in the Complaint?

Look...the time has passed for us to piss over policy. That Complaint contains very real problems faced by these Plaintiffs.

In the case of the twins, what would you tell that father to do? What should he do for his children?

I'm done.

you do for them to address their, and their parent's concerns?

The students and parents are equal with teachers in educating their children.

This stuff about teachers not caring really is out of control. It's ridiculous.

No one thinks you uncaring. But you've posted an OP about a Complaint. What is your specific solution?

Complaint.

Fair enough.

What would you do about the children in the Complaint you have posted about? This is not a hijack! This is asking you to focus on the Plaintiffs and provide an answer.

If people never sat on a school board or in a classroom, then all they can do is speculate away about the profession. Like we see here. Funny how the fact that these are billionaire funded agendas (and NOT grassroots movements) to destroy public schooling, is always ignored by a certain crowd.

Then again I wouldn't expect non-educators to understand the dynamics of the public school system. And I would always be suspicious of people that support home schooling or charter schools.

aside one hour per night for literacy activities. I would send a book home nightly at the child's instructional level. If the parents can't read, I would send home a very familiar book nightly. I would send some literacy games also. I would send conversation starters. If the parents want to read better, I would guide them to some resources or classes. I would meet them at the public library on a weekend if they wanted.

familiarize yourself with the lead Plaintiff....a set of twins.

classroom, not on contract time, of course. You still can't explain due process for students.

available online for you.

I can't make you read it.

you so strongly support. I bet that madfloridian can explain in 3 semtences what this so called due process for students is.

To repeat:

A far cry from these AstroTurf jerks.

I've never seen fighting due process in their newsletters. The ACLU and NAACP were not ashamed to be in Brown vs. Board, unlike Campbell's backers.
I don't allow my students to call me dude. It is not respectful.

important than your property right of tenure.

The OP does not use the term "due process" correctly, IMHO.

Is it a certain amount of small group instruction per day? A certain amount of one on one?
Is that reading and math? Does it include art or music?
What about science and social studies and PE?

It's a bunch of baloney. That's how the reformers got started....they accused teachers of putting themselves first and students last. Since they had the money and power and the media on their side....the misconception took hold.

Of course teachers care about students.

I know when I post about teachers and reformers I will be accused of most every thing under the sun pretty much by the same people.

They clearly have an agenda and it is not pro-teacher.

so. The fact is that these lawsuits aren't about "care." No one doubts that you care.

They will have no positive effect on retention rates for young highly qualified teachers in schools located in the poorest areas of school districts.

schools are now more protected from layoff than the more affluent ones. I think 45 schools in LA were specially designated.

I don't think this will crush the unions....I think this will, however, change how tenure and seniority are applied.

Those schools are protected from layoff, but they aren't protected from charter competition when they fail in high stakes testing or AYP.

The teachers can see all the problems that exist in the kids' community or family, but can't do anything about those problems for the most part. Young teachers experience the pressure cooker of constant physical fights and violence, and see that it isn't the utopia they imagined, with all the kids in the classroom eager to learn. Instead, they spend a ton of time trying to keep the kids on task, and the worst disciplinary problems get the attention. This burns out the teacher, who changes careers or uses system seniority to leave the combat zone, out of self-preservation, to stay in their teaching career. If you eliminate system seniority that allows eventual transfer options for the young teachers in the 45 schools, they will leave the profession, and you are effectively making them indentures instead of union teachers, so you're crushing the unions.

With systemwide layoffs (occurring all over the country), If the poorest area schools stay open, the more experienced senior teachers transfer to the poorest schools when a school in the richer area closes, so they get a more experienced teacher who knows the ropes. Preventing layoffs in the poorer schools results in a less experienced teacher for those kids.

The student (Sharail Reed) in your journal post who talked about teacher after teacher in history class writing their name on the board, then it was erased next day so another teacher could write theirs -- she wasn't describing a problem caused by union seniority, where teachers with seniority kept coming in and bumping less senior teachers. So eliminating system seniority won't help there, though it is a terrible problem. Eliminating seniority WILL allow the management to constantly get rid of the more expensive teachers who are higher on the salary ladder, which means teaching isn't a career for the young idealistic hardworking teacher who you imagine is being bumped out by the old jaded burnt-out case teacher you imagine. Young teachers give 110% year after year, to prove themselves to management, but even if they keep up the pace indefinitely, they'll become too expensive to employ, and management will go ahead and get rid of them (because no seniority), and hire two cheaper new ones instead (because insufficient school budgets). So theres another ladder of oportunity eliminated for those same kids who we all want educated, once they manage to graduate and are looking for a vocation and livelihood.

The rich creeps behind Brown and Senor don't want any non-rich public school kid educated in this country. Period. They do want the schools forced to fail, so they can steal the tax dollars going to public education to benefit their rich cronies. They also want to attack the strong politically active Democratic party backing unions with brains, the AFT and the NEA. If building and system seniority don't exist, the unions are gutted, because no member has any protection from the whims of management.

There's a lot of different angles to this issue, but mad is right about the shadow money behind these groups.

to those of us who do not understand legalese.

effect on minority students. My journal details the lawsuit.

to know if I am doing due process to my first graders.

away recess time, but it's really more like 6.
I guess you can't answer my question about due process.

I quit donating to them when I posted about this in 2011....it really angered me.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/7405

but don't even know the most basic details about a lawsuit brought by an organization you are a member of that has great impact on your students and your profession, and you're railing against it on an internet discussion board?

Do you think this might be one of those times that make people question if our education system is operating efficiently?

I have never seen so many insults as there are lately toward teachers.

I belonged and donated to the ACLU for years. I knew they took on many causes that I was not pleased about. However, it was not common knowledge when they started in on teachers' unions. It was something that I happened upon, and I can really understand why others have not heard about it.

No more insulting than hearing "there are no bad teachers" all the time, That's insulting

And as a teacher - of course you give the other teacher a pass. If this was someone on an issue you disagreed with - you would say that person has zero credibility. Not here of course

And here is a point that derives from it.

These types of mistakes are made everyday by teachers in class. Call it "misspoke", "forgot" or just "completely wrong" - these things happen everyday. The difference now vs 15 years ago?

Teachers are no longer the holders of knowledge for kids. They can leave the class, and immediately know the teacher is wrong, and the teachers credibility takes a hit. Anything the teacher speaks about in class - kids can verify. Its a pretty crappy position fpr the teacher - don't ever be wrong. But thats life. Do it two or three times - teachers credibility is suspect.

If you really want to know where teachers are not respected - look at your students. And parents feelings about teachers often stem from their kids feelings.

What the hell does that even mean?

BTW, I've never been a teacher, I don't have the nerves for it. But I can count the number of bad teachers I had in elementary and secondary school on one hand. No, I wasn't in the inner city, but it was a poor rural area of the country. I was lucky to have a parent and grandparent who were interested in seeing that I learned to love books early, and so when I started school I excelled at reading. Other classmates struggled with their studies, some acted out, but none of that was due to the teacher, but their situation at home. Although I'm sure many of them blamed the teacher, we weren't quite as sue happy in the '60s and '70s as they are now.

Heard of the internet?

Old way: where do kids get info - Teachers, parents, books. At the pace of parents and teachers, or through concerted effort in a library. Newspapers once a day. Comparatively limited TV

New way: 5 seconds of web and I have the answer to any question I could ask

Where do you go for your info? Books? Telephone books? Maps?

Teachers are not at "fault" here. Their kids and environment changed.

Every kid has an ipad assigned to them from the school...I know it is hard for some to understand, but teachers use technology to help educate students.

with that kind of nonsensical information.

I am not talking about the "use" of a device. I'm talking about whats "available" in the device. And not when they are in your class

You now have kids and teenagers with access to virtually everything you could teach them. You have kids that can't see the point of some classes because they don't need them - they have the answers.

You have a different student.

and much more. I also read the ACLU's newsletter. For some reason, they have not highlighted their anti-teacher activities. You are welcome in my classroom anytime if you want to assess my teaching.

But according to others in this thread - since those of us who are not teachers don't understand what you do - so we really shouldn't comment. But teachers seem free to comment about other professions.

My point is - if you are this uninformed as far as prep to debate in public, as a teacher on an issue you claim very passionate about - it seems a little careless.

Which goes to my previous point to MadFlo: The first group that has "lost respect" for teachers is students. And if students don't thnk their teachers are good - neither will parents

Teachers work for school districts, not schools. If the district wants to place the best teachers in the most needy schools, they can do so. My tenure does not assure me my favorite school or grade level.

Last edited Mon Aug 4, 2014, 10:45 AM - Edit history (1)

that there are "best teachers" and "not-best teachers".

I think that is commendable as it shows a point of agreement between the sides on this issue. You could say it's the biggest point of contention - that there are good and bad teachers. Not only good ones.

measure of a teacher.

The fact that there is agreement - that there are bad teachers - coming from a teacher is at least indicative that there is room for a solution.

Teachers should be the ones spearheading the way to come up with a solution before someone else imposes it on them

Any help appreciated. It was quite an interview.

He even notices how Campbell Brown makes it sound like teachers don't care about students. That is the main avenue of attacks against teachers, that they don't put students first.

As I said, the bullsh** is getting deeper.

Good on Colbert for catching that.

Watch the video...see Campbell squirm.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/08/01/stephen-colbert-to-campbell-brown-why-are-we-blaming-the-teachers-maybe-its-the-dumb-kids/

that her agency is called The Parents Transparency Project, when she refuses the transparency of mentioning her backers.

She is also (according to wikipedia) on the board of Success Academy Charter Schools.

So, no conflict of interest there.

By the usual suspects.

They don't want "the protesters to go after these people." Why? Need to shed some light on these cockroaches.

I couldn't bring myself to watch it a second time.

That's been bothering me all day.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1068&pid=16385

And I agree with you.

He really let the scumbag lady off really easy. He went down a peg IMOP.

He could start with the protestors outside.

deemed harassment?

The whole situation reeks of the inability of the 1% to even comprehend their own actions. It reeks of arrogance and stupidity.

Last edited Sat Aug 2, 2014, 04:01 PM - Edit history (1)

I have not alerted on anything for a long time. This is one of the most stunning private messages I have ever received in all my years here. I don't think anything matters anymore. It's the first comment and that last one that really sting.

On Sat Aug 2, 2014, 12:26 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

You're a teacher....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5327024

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

It is not commonly known that the ACLU often has worked against teachers' unions. It is not any way to judge a teacher. It's really a shame
to see people come on board at DU and begin insulting teachers over such an issue. It has nothing to do with good teaching....the fact that he had not heard the ACLU was after teachers' unions.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sat Aug 2, 2014, 12:36 PM, and voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Shit on a stick, this is the THIRD jury I've sat on in THIS damn thread. madfloridian, take a chill pill!
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Obnoxious (highly). But I've seen much worse here.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Voting to leave it alone and let it stand. But is IS unnecessarily rude and I hope poster understands that. Rudeness and disrespect derails good discussion.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Totally ridiculous alert.

Thank you.

after the "sh** on a stick, take a chill pill" and "THIS damn thread"....maybe they're trying to tell me something.

I wonder what they are trying to tell me?

Should I take another?

Truthfully... I would have allowed the snotty post that riled you , on the grounds that snottiness... and in this case compounded by an absence of of logic + a trollish post count.... is insufficient grounds for hiding.

Thanks for the ACLU history re. ed reform. I didn't know about any of it either until very recently ... including its involvement on the other side re. Vergara; and didn't know that it went back as far as it does.

And YES, I'm a dues paying member of many years duration. I imagine that they'd want to keep it on the down-low... esp if they're taking grant money from certain "philanthropies."

It might explain why NYC Chapter was kind of cool to my idea of a suit vs. NYC DOE over free-speech/LGBT issues in 2012.

Didn't know then; but I know now.

I wonder if you would have responded like that, or if you would just have let it stand. Oddly enough I was saying it was okay for teachers not to realize that about the ACLU......frankly I should have not tried.

It wasn't a PM, it was a post on a message board. Check your link.

And it wasn't a response to you.

That's two more blazingly incorrect things said by teachers in this thread.

And notice my low post count. If I am well aware the ACLU was behind LAUSD - one would think others with more at stake might be.

Don't you get it? You are the big winner here. So back off and enjoy your victory.

You are now free to say whatever you wish.

Congrats.

would have been "I'm sorry I was incorrect in my public admonishing of you."

I owe no one an apology for this post or any other I have made about the lack of respect for teachers.

I believe Obama will be looked back upon as the president who enabled the dismantling of America's public education system.

He and Arne Duncan are fulfilling the Newt Gingrich/George Bush plans for the privatization of education. Bush never pushed to get them through like this, and he was not insulting toward teachers.

So welcome to DU, you should have a great stay here. Your feelings about public school teachers are shared by the majority here.

that some people have a lack of respect for teachers.

So please continue.

were on vacation a few years ago in DelMarVa, and we took a walk on the inland waterway side.

When we came out of the park to the parking lot, we had ticks visible on our legs. We grabbed them and tossed them off, they weren't dug in yet, but as fast as we removed them, new ones from the parking lot kept jumping on.

I don't know why I'm bringing this up. Something on this thread reminded me of it.

Anyhow, we got some flea and tick shampoo from the pet store, it did the job, the rest of the vacation was great, and we are currently tick free. It was the eventual triumph of humankind over pernicious pests, is my point. I guess.

Thanks for the posts.

to chill out or are ridiculed until they don't bother anymore.

Because the plaintiffs happen to be minorities.

What really bugs me so much is that the school where I taught for years was in a high poverty area, with about a third each of white, hispanic, and African American. Yet that school with all its problems had some of the best teachers in the city.

We got much less in resources from the district than did the schools in richer neighborhoods. But we worked so hard. There were problems that the district itself could have solved but didn't.

But it certainly was not the teachers. Yet suits like this one blames only the teachers. They have to discredit teachers before they can discredit the whole system to privatize it.

The principals know they are coming for them next. Now I bet they are wishing they never spent so much time criticizing teachers' unions. Betcha they are thinking about organizing their own.

Many principals are very outspoken now on Twitter and in blogs.

The day for teachers having a career is long past. Now it's time for public education on the cheap.

How else can the billionaires behind the reforms get enough return for their money?

It's time for teachers to shut up and realize they are expendable....that the new recruits are in town to stay.

Arne's done quite well in getting so much done since 2009.

Barbara Bush pushed school districts to use her son's program. Once we posted some of the videos, people virtually laughed them off You Tube.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/3890

Thanks, Octa.

And the education corporations care about one thing only : making a profit. The same people in your article and their Republican backers
have been working through ALEC to change teacher qualifications. They want to make it so anybody with a HS education and a 12 week training certificate can teach children. The Republicans in our legislature have been trying to get this passed in NC. It makes me want to vomit. But then, as a Democrat, union-busting always does. Grassroots ? Complete and utter bullshit. This is right-wing corporatism at it's finest.

Parent Trigger and ALEC were a match made in heaven. ALEC's education bills encompass more than 30 years of effort to privatize public education through an ever-expanding network of school vouchers, an idea first advocated by economist Milton Friedman in the 1950s. ALEC bills also allow schools to loosen standards for teachers and administrators, exclude students with physical disabilities and special educational needs, eschew collective bargaining, and experiment with other pet causes like merit pay, single-sex education, school uniforms, and political and religious indoctrination of students.




"There is not good evidence that the options given [after the trigger is pulled] improve student achievement. The goal has more to do with changing school governance and giving opportunities for some of these organizations to get control of the public dollar," Lubienski said. "Policymakers need to look at the factors that actually influence student achievement."


The data shows that the conversion to charter schools, which Lubienski said is the constant theme running throughout the "Parent Trigger" legislation passed in states, has not shown to be effective in improving student outcomes. A study conducted at Stanford University's Hoover Institution presents evidence that students in only 17 percent of charter school show greater improvement in math and reading than students in similar traditional public schools, whereas 37 percent, deliver learning results that are significantly worse than the student would have realized had they remained in public schools. However, the conversion to charter schools has proven profitable to many U.S. firms such as ALEC member National Heritage Academies, a for-profit charter school management organization operating in eight states, and K-12, Inc., which promotes "virtual" charter schools as well as "virtual" voucher schools. K-12, Inc. is under investigation in Florida for improperly certifying teachers and asking them to cover it up.
http://www.prwatch.org/news/2012/09/11763/wont-back-down-film-pushes-alec-parent-trigger-proposal

The parent trigger is such a manipulative tool used by the reformers. It pretends to empower minority schools, yet all it really does is convince the parents to vote to turn it over to a charter company.

or are they part of the kock brothers/vast rite wing conspiracy?