have to wear tops I think but most do not because they have to but because guys act like idiots I think.

Equality is nice but an end to patriarchy is what we really need.

Equality is just a mathematical term and has little meaning to me outside of equations.

But that could just be some bullshit my friend told me when we were 7.

have to wear tops..." who sez?

When did this law pass?? I live where there is fog, if you wanta freeze.. just go without a top in the fog.. omg!! No..I bundle up cause its freaking cold!!!

I had an older brother who went shirtless quite a bit when playing outside and I always followed his lead. Until that one horrid day, when she told me I had to wear a shirt. I threw an absolute fit, cried, and yelled that it wasn't fair. Still had to wear the shirt, though.

It is about this exactly...

Isn't it a great one?

Yes. I bet a lot of us can relate to it

women are ground away by expectations that have no purpose.

I agree. Sad but true.

NYC has no restriction on women without tops.

It's not in all cities. In fact, Vermont has no anti-nudity laws at all. We'll, until some 80 year old guy in Brattleboro screwed things up and walked through a local town street fair butt-naked, wearing just a fanny pack. Wrong on so many levels...the town eventually put in place an ordinance banning nudity on city streets. Dumb...ban naked 80 year men with fanny packs on city streets. But everyone?

It was a joke. Sheesh...there's one on every DU thread.

for his goofy ass looking like a turtle...

making fun of Ann Coulter's looks.

San Antonio

through Hyde Park (Austin) and was arrested, a muny judge through the case out, citing equal protection of the law. So it's legal by case law in Moscow-on-the-Colorado.

Is that superiority or what?

--imm

Any constitutional lawyers care to opine?

They'd have to show a reasonable state interest in having a different rule for women. And that would be tough to articulate.

Last edited Sun Aug 3, 2014, 03:09 AM - Edit history (1)

The Equal Protection Clause in the Fourteenth Amendment has been used to invalidate several statutes that treated the sexes differently. Where a state statute or municipal ordinance prohibits women but not men from appearing topless in public, has it been upheld against an Equal Protection Clause challenge?

At least one judge has concluded that such laws violate the Equal Protection Clause. In People v. Santorelli, 80 N.Y.2d 875 (1992), the law was challenged on Equal Protection grounds. New York's highest court avoided the issue by holding that the statute was aimed at discouraging topless waitresses and did not apply to the noncommercial toplessness in the case before it. In a concurring opinion, Judge Titone rejected that argument. He concluded that the statute did apply to this conduct. He therefore had to reach the constitutional question, and his conclusion was that the statute was unconstitutional.

My guess is that many such statutes have not been challenged, because not all that many women want to go topless in public (even if they want other women to have that right). To assess the effect if the ERA were ratified, you would have to see whether this form of sex discrimination has been upheld on grounds that would still be valid under the ERA.

THIS IS AN INJUSTICE THAT MUST END!!!!!

RIGHT FUCKING NOW

FUCK OLIVE GARDEN

Sorry guys, as much as you want getting a peek at my tits to be my feminist priority, I'm much more interested in equal pay.

Wanna start some more threads demanding topless protests too?

We get it: you want to see some boobs.

You want to keep your shirt on that's your right.

What about a woman who doesn't want to keep in on?

Let me just say from the get go---I really don't give a fuck if you are not interested in what I say. really.

With that said... I think its bullshit that women do not have the same rights as a guy when it comes to this shit.

Oh---did I tell you that I don't give a shit if you are interested or not....?

that their right to toplessness is an important element in their fight for equality.

To say that the issue of inconsistent laws about toplessness negates the validity of the desire for equality is silly. As I am sure you know.

I see a woman exercising her right to free choice.

What a shamelessly dishonest post.

most women wouldn't spend even a few seconds thinking about whether to do this

A few do, and more power to them. They have more tolerance for assholes than most.

Has stood the test of time.

override reality!

Now that song reminds me only of the episode of Beavis and Butthead where they watch this video and Butthead declares: "He says he can dance, but he like, can't. Huhuhuh."

for that idea to even be entertained for more than 2 seconds.

most men believe that women should be obscene, but not heard, it will.

Until then, I don't see most places legalizing this for women. I think MOST men could be appropriate but there's always the idiots who ruin it.

I'm all for it. No skin off my teeth. But there are too many scum bags at my gym that ogle women unrepentently (yes I like to look but it's like looking at the sun, you get two seconds than move on). Give women the option, but I don't think it will go well.

I think only men with that particular fetish would cause women any grief. Right now breasts are still highly sexualized for many men.

...but not for other purposes. Do you favor a general de-sexualizing of breasts? Would this extend to rear ends, or only parts deemed legal for uncovering?

I don't know how to answer your question. I guess a better solution is for we men to internalize appropriate behavior upon viewing naked breasts, sexualized or not. I'm referring to public behavior, of course.

I am a big fan of the holy thunderers, and breasts as well. And frankly, flat bellies are not my thing, either.

Shouldn't women have the right to choose?

I wonder if you know you are doing that, and I wonder if you know why you are doing that.

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is.

Now, I have two daughters (say it up front), but I've never quite figured out what the big deal
(why people get so bent out of shape) is abt girls/women wanting to take their tops off, etc.

As has been said, a guy peels his shirt off when out doing yard-work? Mehh...
Older girl or woman does it? OMG!!! Really?

If it's hot, it's hot. Yeah, I know the gals sweat too. Me doing yard work? I burn easily, so I'm
not going to be working w/o my top, but my 6 y/o came out and was fussing abt how hot she
was. "Well, take off your shirt."
"Daddy, I can't do that!"
"Why not? You're 6..."

The whole sexualizing everything is part of the problem... not sure who gets the most blame,
though it can be spread around a bit.

Want to breast-feed? Knock yourself out. Hot? Take it off. Can't say that I'm not going to look
(hey, I'm a guy), but leering? No, not a perv.

Law types need to worry more about solving the real issues with society, and not worrying
about whether somebody's boob is showing...

It's legal most places yet you don't see women, say, enjoying a nice sunny day without a top.

I'm sure a great deal is sexual objectification, as you say. I'm also sure a lot of women wouldn't be comfortable doing it even if they thought they weren't going to be ogled. Habits and social mores are slow to change.

That's why we wear shirts.

Now tell me all about how much respect you have for women and what a feminist you are.

I dunno, which is the right kind of feminist? The kind that seeks to legitimize sex work as a viable choice for women or the kind that believes sex work further objectifies women? Spare me the pretention that there is a monolithic definition of "Feminist." I'll define who I am as a person and what makes me a feminist -- not you or anyone else. And that alone makes me a feminist. I'm not here to live in the box you built for yourself.

If someone wants to walk around with the goodies out for all to see that's them. The fact remains that the nude female form is a commodity whose exposure is traded for money. The men who do so don't spend their lives in dark, smoke-filled strip clubs, they also walk the streets. Whether its viable work for a woman is beside the point, the oglers will now be ogling -- for free. That is the sub-text to my comment, albeit delivered with a twist of humor and irony.

I'll argue that the state should NOT be using force to stop women from walking around topless long before I'll argue whether or not its a gender equality or sexual objectification issue. Cops should be out doing more important shit, like busting people who are slipping date rape drugs into alcoholic beverages given to minors and then proceeding to sexually assault those minors.

If you want to talk public decency I will readily state without apology that there are some breasts just weren't meant to be seen in public. Large, grotesque, flopping pendulous things. My dad, for instance. Let me know when you want to pass an ordinance for mandatory back and moob shaving.

what some would pay good money to see?"

This has nothing to do with legitimizing sex work, which isn't even part of this discussion, but nice straw man to throw in there randomly. This has to do with you suggesting that the reason women wear shirts is because they could make some good money showing their boobs, so of course all women are going to want to do that.

This has nothing to do with humor and irony. This has to do with a comment that you probably don't even realize shows, in neon lights, a deep and astonishing disrespect for an entire sex.

If you had bothered to read through this thread, you would understand that in most places it is NOT illegal for women to go topless. There are only three states in which it is, so this is not really all that pressing an issue, and no one is objecting to its legality. And thanks for letting us know that you really think that women going topless should be legal (which it mostly is), but not if they have large pendulous things like your dad's.

I wasn't commenting on the legitimacy of sex work, I was commenting on the fact there is no singular definition of "feminist" and I am not beholden to whichever definition you take for yourself. I said as much and you chose to miss it completely.

give away for free what someone would pay good money to see?" In response to the question of why women don't go topless in public.

Loud and clear, though you appear completely unaware of what you are communicating.

I'm sure you will need to have the last word here, so enjoy, but "Why give away for free what someone would pay good money to see?" is all anyone needs to see to know what you think of women in general.

has been repeatedly explained to you the problem is yours. You're either delusional or dishonest in your desperation to win. Not my problem, yours. Will you settle for a kewpie doll?

showing their boobs in public.

Are some folks really so childish that a picture of a woman eating anything cylindrical causes them to act like Beavis and Butthead?

By the same token the OP probably does not really care about equality so much as wishes women would take their tops off.

While America may make too much of a fuss about nudity I happen to like the female form from one end to the other so the idea of completely desexualizing the female breast is not what I would consider progress. Just because breasts are made for babies and buttocks are for sitting upon does not mean men should not have an appreciation for them.

I think we can mature in our attitudes without neutering our desires.

few women will be able to comfortably enjoy going around topless. It is legal in many places around the US.

As has been explained repeatedly, it isn't just laws stopping women from walking around topless.

This isn't a difficult concept to understand.

and I hope you know where I'm coming from.

I saw a couple today on the local walking trail. The guy had no shirt on and the woman--- of course--- had a shirt on. It got me thinking what if it was the opposite. Sure I know she would have been harassed by knucklehead guys---but I think she would have been arrested as well.

I think that's bullshit.

But changing laws won't fix it.

In most places she'd be arrested not for going topless, but for causing a disturbance.

This situation illustrates the need for radical feminism. Liberal feminism alone cannot affect the changes necessary for women to enjoy the same freedom as men.

No guy ever acted inappropriately (and I was a 23 year old 110 lb 36D blonde topless surfer)

A lot of it is social conditioning in my experience.

approximately half of them, female.

I think there's a different factor you're not considering, and that is the level to which people give -or, in the case of some, don't give- a shit what others think.


http://www.oregonlive.com/multimedia/index.ssf/2014/06/photos_video_portland_world_na.html

For example, neither men nor women can legally go topless in court. As a society "we" have always been invested in regulating public dress.

Its true though, there have always been far more laws about what women can wear than men however.

That's the only way the patriarchy will get the message.

Not for my own titillation, either.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

Hello, that is what breasts are FOR. Do men fear urinating in a restroom around other men?

But I agree completely with you. Where's the harm in doing something that's natural?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

Women don't tend to get an uncontrollable wideon when they view a man's unclothed upper body which tends to lead, at a minimum, to them behaving in a manner way beyond "inappropriate".

And that's for starters.

How do you feel about five car pile ups?

At least it was legal in Columbus when I lived there.

Just make a law that men are not allowed to be topless, and you solved the equality problem.

I remember the 70s when a guy could walk into a grocery store or even a McDonald's shirtless and no one would bat an eyelash.

This country still has some work to do to rid itself of the Conservative mindset that is afraid -oh, so afraid- of so many things.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

And face harassment from men it's doubtful that many women would want to be topless in public. Maybe when some men learn how to respect women and understand we are their equal and far more than just sexual beings perhaps things would change.

can go where they want to.

When I go out, I'm going to get dressed. And take a shower too. Ain't civilization grand?

It's a law that must be changed.

Not sure my wife would want to though. Her breast is way bigger than my little puny titties so they need some support otherwise she'd probably be all for it on some of these hot ass days. Most days I don't ever wear undies at all, too damn warm but of course that is getting off topic and a tad more than most would care to know anyways. mybad

Probably not your intention, but then again...a couple OP's lately make one wonder.

Is this how you read this Op You read this as trumad wanting to see tits on the street? Really?

You're trolling for a reaction from me and I guess it worked.

And and as for reinstating me to the Mens group... please do.. my life expectancy would be 2 minutes.

Last edited Sat Aug 2, 2014, 04:02 PM - Edit history (1)

And totally off the mark.

No offense meant, of course.

The video was a commercial for men's underwear and had the woman copying some less than classy male behavior. Very funny video, but hiding it seemed a bit hypocritical to me.

Exposed breasts are only for breastfeeding, when someone else needs them! Exposing them by choice and for a woman's own enjoyment, because she wants to, is only for stretch marks, not breasts!

Sheesh, you talk like we owned the damned things, or something. Get with the program!

I'm an ass man myself.