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CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 05:48 PM Aug 2014

Which da Vinci Angel is more beautiful? You choose!

Last edited Fri Aug 1, 2014, 07:35 PM - Edit history (1)

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Angel in The Virgin of the Rocks (Paris Version) Louvre

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Angel in The Virgin of the Rocks (London version) National Gallery

full versions
Louvre 1483-86
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National Gallery 1506-8
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Each of these paintings envisions the Virgin, appearing in nature rather than enthroned in the heavenly clouds, with the infant Child on her left and a slightly older John the Baptist on her right, and an attendant angel supporting the baby Jesus’ back.

I consider these two works to be the sweetest of all of the early Renaissance religiously worked themes. The placing of Mary in the natural world, seated on the ground, with nature’s magnificent rock formations in the background, tender flora in the foreground, a gentle expounding on hortus conclusis (enclosed garden) to remind the faithful of Mary’s virginity and immaculate conception, and a clear pool of water before her (foreshadowing Christ’s baptism by John), the beautiful pink of the babies’ skin and the soft attending angel is perhaps the loveliest scene in Christian art. It makes me wish that Leonardo had painted more, such was his superb hand.

So why did Leonardo paint two versions of it?

The back story goes something like this: Leonardo was commissioned by Brothers of the Confraternity of the Immaculate Conception to paint a religious scene for their chapel altarpiece in the church of San Francesco Grande in Milan.

“... Leonardo's contract had a very short deadline which required the painting be delivered before December 8th, the feast of the Immaculate Conception, (this strongly suggests that the artists already had a cartoon prepared), but as was typical of him he failed to comply; this piece then became the source of two lengthy lawsuits which lasted for the many, many years. .

Things were finally settled on 27th April, 1506. It was determined that the work was, in fact, unfinished with the result that Leonardo was not paid for the first painting, it then being forfeited to the artist. He agreed to do a second work -- or to have another artist do one on his behalf -- and to deliver it on time. The deadline was be two years and for this he would receive half of the additional payment he had asked for the first painting, the sum of two hundred lire...”

full piece here http://www.lairweb.org.nz/leonardo/rocks.html

That is basically the largely accepted historical analysis. There are some art historians who strongly argue that the London version is the first. It is an interesting dispute, but that is another essay entirely!

So by painting it again, he probably began to reconsider several key aspects of the scene. In the second version (now called the London version) Leonardo used more sfumato, intensifying the chiaroscuro effect, eliminated the angel’s point toward John the Baptist and turned that angel’s attention and gaze inward and more reflective.

Art historian Kenneth Clark, who was a director of London’s National Gallery in the 1930s, has said this about the angel in his Gallery:

“Beautiful as it is, this angel lacks the enchantment of the lighter, more Gothic angel in the Paris version. It embodies the result of Leonardo’s later research in which ideal beauty and classic regularity of chiaroscuro were combined, with a certain loss in freshness, but with an expressive power which almost hypnotised his contemporaries.”

So which angel is more beautiful? What do you think?




22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Which da Vinci Angel is more beautiful? You choose! (Original Post) CTyankee Aug 2014 OP
I like the second one BainsBane Aug 2014 #1
the second version likely had other painters involved but the angel is considered to CTyankee Aug 2014 #6
Two...in one word: Light joeybee12 Aug 2014 #2
I'll take door number 2, Monty. (second one down) BlueJazz Aug 2014 #3
I have to wonder who is his model...it is so gorgeous... CTyankee Aug 2014 #13
I like the second one ... something about it just draws me into it. n/t RKP5637 Aug 2014 #4
It is quite impressive when you see it in the museum, altho photos are so good now they CTyankee Aug 2014 #8
The second one because of the pensive expression Skidmore Aug 2014 #5
Until a few years ago I didn't realize there were two versions. I had seen the second one CTyankee Aug 2014 #7
No. 2 Frustratedlady Aug 2014 #9
The London version - for reasons above - the light, the facial expression northoftheborder Aug 2014 #10
Trick question. None of the above. salib Aug 2014 #11
I think neither John nor the Magdalen is implicated here. It is a straight up or down question.... CTyankee Aug 2014 #12
The question should be who is the angel with NO HALO in the London painting lovuian Aug 2014 #14
You mean the second one...the first one is in the Louvre... CTyankee Aug 2014 #15
Once again, I'm in the minority. Chellee Aug 2014 #16
the water is great... CTyankee Aug 2014 #17
Totally agree Rstrstx Aug 2014 #18
Here's a better version of the first one Rstrstx Aug 2014 #20
I like the second one because lovuian Aug 2014 #19
a lot of hinted meanings are lost on today's viewers. CTyankee Aug 2014 #22
the third one... one_voice Aug 2014 #21

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
1. I like the second one
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 05:52 PM
Aug 2014

It helps that it looks to have been recently restored so the image is crisper. I also like the look in her eyes.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
6. the second version likely had other painters involved but the angel is considered to
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 06:03 PM
Aug 2014

have been done by Leonardo (the hair supposedly gives it away)...

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
8. It is quite impressive when you see it in the museum, altho photos are so good now they
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 06:13 PM
Aug 2014

capture the essence beautifully. However, whenever I see one of these masterpieces in real life it becomes an occasion, a joy, just being there...I feel closer to the artist...

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
5. The second one because of the pensive expression
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 05:58 PM
Aug 2014

on the face that gives the impression that she is contemplating something fantastically wonderful beyond the canvas. There is peace in her face. The other version, I think, has her looking at the viewer of the painting in a bemused way. It lacks the intrigue of the other one.

PS. Thanks for another Friday evening art lesson. I so look forward to these threads.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
7. Until a few years ago I didn't realize there were two versions. I had seen the second one
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 06:06 PM
Aug 2014

and shortly after that I took a trip to Paris and looked for Virgin of the Rocks and I was confused. That angel looked so different! I thought I was losing it. Got back and read further...and duh...

Two versions! Who knew?

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
12. I think neither John nor the Magdalen is implicated here. It is a straight up or down question....
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 07:41 PM
Aug 2014

No doubt exists in art history that Leonardo didn't paint both of these (altho there is some justification to believe that some of the artwork in the London version was done by assistants, only not the angel).

lovuian

(19,362 posts)
14. The question should be who is the angel with NO HALO in the London painting
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 07:50 PM
Aug 2014

Last edited Fri Aug 1, 2014, 08:44 PM - Edit history (1)

the archangel is Uriel
why does the angel have no halo?
because in 795 AD Uriel was eliminated from veneration by Pope Zachary
the same pope who evicted the Merovingians and placed Pepin ...Charlemagne's father

Da Vinci knew the only angels venerated by the Catholic Church is Michael Gabriel and Raphael

if you go to the Louvre the angel's name is Gabriel but the London painting has no name but for centuries the angel's name was known as Uriel due to a legend where John's family meet Jesus on the road to Egypt
so the first one is my favorite at the London Museum
Yes the second one the angel with no halo Uriel

Chellee

(2,097 posts)
16. Once again, I'm in the minority.
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 08:01 PM
Aug 2014

I like the first one. I do think the angel's expression is better in the second, and I'm glad he took out the pointing finger, (don't point, it's rude). I also like the embroidery on the sleeve. But the overall painting, I like the first. I like how it's softer. I like the other three figures better in the first, and the rocks, leaves, and especially the water.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
17. the water is great...
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 08:12 PM
Aug 2014

but the second one holds some fascination for me...I think that is because it has more sfumato, which deepens meaning somehow for me...

Rstrstx

(1,399 posts)
18. Totally agree
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 08:35 PM
Aug 2014

The second one may be technically better as far as the face goes and is certainly in better condition but I find the Louvre painting far superior and more satisfying, it draws you into its hazy world in a way the London version doesn't. The look on the eyes, at something outside the frame, is reminiscent of la Gioconda in the Louvre version and there is an overall mystique that is just, I don't know, rather lacking in the punchier but more clinical London version.

lovuian

(19,362 posts)
19. I like the second one because
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 08:50 PM
Aug 2014

Da Vinci was told to make it more defined who John and Jesus were thus the added halos and Cross and sign of the Cross and even today Uriel is not one of the angels venerated in the Catholic Church Pope Benedict refused to reinstate him but the Anglicans Coptic and other churches don't have a problem with him

the Pope showed he had the power in heaven and Earth but I think Da Vinci had the last laugh

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
22. a lot of hinted meanings are lost on today's viewers.
Sat Aug 2, 2014, 07:24 AM
Aug 2014

It's interesing. I was brought up Protestant and viewing religious art of the Renaissance was mystifying to me, but understood by my Catholic friends immediately. Saints were portrayed by the symbols of their death or other identifying objects or clothing (John the Baptist always in an animal skin, for instance). So Ihad to learn all of that to decipher the painting...

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