Tunnels have been found. We destroyed the US side, and asked the Mexicans to destroy their side.

the tunnels. Those wishing to stage the attacks would be met with force until they capitulated or were destroyed.

or can you connect the dots?

"kill people" but when an embarrassing attack caught our supposedly invincible military off guard this after a brutal weeks long bombing campaign against civilians in Matamoros and other places, we decided to use these tunnels as an excuse to invade Mexico? what then?

every reasonable intelligence estimate said Japan would attack? No, I'm not peddling the anti-FDR LIHOP CT. But from what I've read the US knew it was when, not if Japan attacked.

And if the tunnels will be used as an excuse how dumb does the instigating party have to be to provide that excuse?

provide an excuse? so you feel that shelling a civilian city is excused by the actions of "the instigating party"?

No, I do not. Which is why I'm OK with Hamas being hunted down when it fires its Qassam rockets at civilians.

But I feel with certainty, that American deaths do occur as a result of these tunnels their use.

If people were tunneling into the US to commit acts of war the US would demand the parent nation bring them to heel or else the US would engage the offenders directly. It may not involve tunnels but its happening already, i.e. the global war of terrorism.

haven't you heard? There's been a war on drugs in the US for years now

It's still a civil criminal affair, otherwise they'd be entitled to use all manner of weaponry. Yet the fact remains the WoD is still held in check by posse comitatus (sp?).

But thanks for your contribution.

Since the evildoers there are clearly importing contraband. And they might give the contraband to Canadians who smuggle it into the US!

Or so the neocons would argue.

I would hazard that as long as it's not military-grade weaponry designed to kill U.S. citizens being smuggled, it's dealt with by local (rather than federal) law enforcement, as was the case with the Canadian-US tunnel built to smuggle reefer in 2004 or 2005; though I'd guess any tunnels 'twixt the U.S. and Mexico are handled by U.S. Customs enforcement.

I would imagine that jurisdiction and law enforcement response would though, depend in part on what is being smuggled.

tunnels have actually been discovered between Mexico and the US. These tunnels when discovered have been dealt with and I don't recall Mexico ever being invaded by US forces to destroy one of them.

Think about it.

"and I don't recall Mexico ever being invaded by US forces..."

Hence my qualifier referencing military-grade weapons.

Mexico willingly allows DEA to come into Mexico to destroy tunnels. That policy goes both ways. When ICE, DEA or USBP allow Mexican Federal Police to destroy tunnels even if it means operating across the border, do you consider that to be an invasion too?

Your question is based on an odd supposition that the US and Mexico don't operate cooperatively to destroy these tunnels for their mutual benefit. Often this means either side's law enforcement organizations operating on both sides of the border with permission.

You kinda took the long way around, but I'm guessing your answer is no?

I'm asking how the US deals with it.

I asked how the US deals with it. Someone here suggested that the US destroys it's side and Mexico complies with US request to destroy their side. This answer come closest to answering my question honestly so far.

...are there civil authorities on the Gaza side of the border who can step in to help?

Back up a cement mixer and plug it from one end.

It takes no great expertise to destroy a tunnel, and doesn't require access to both ends of it.

The East Germans weren't getting "help" from West Berlin when they closed off smuggling tunnels there, and didn't need any cooperation from the West Berlin side to seal them off.

"It takes no great expertise to destroy a tunnel, and doesn't require access to both ends of it."

That's what I thought. So, the answer to my question is no. The US military does not invade Mexico and it is not necessary to destroy a tunnel on both sides of the US Mexico border for the tunnel to be destroyed.

Thank you very much, I learned something indeed.

in the case of Gaza, the tunnels were not built with exits in Israel. The last part of the tunnel to the surface is not dug until right before they are to be used. A days worth of digging and they are at the surface - in the meantime the tunnel can remain undetected for years if need be. Hamas is not stupid.

that will be able to detect these tunnels with no openings that go undetected for years? Then the IDF can destroy them on the Israeli side without going into Palestine and risking their lives and killing innocents?

They could call it something like- oh- I- don't- know.. Ground Penetrating Radar for GPR for short?


I really do find it amazing that Israel has no capability to detect these tunnels on the Israel side of the wall, yet the IDF knows exactly where they are in Palestine.

Depending on the type of soil they can penetrate a couple of meters at best. Like I said, Hamas is smart - don't you think they took such thing into consideration when building the tunnels?

The IDF found the Gaza entrances by searching house to house. It took four weeks and the lives of 60 soldiers to find them so I can't see why you think they knew exactly where they were.

Last edited Fri Aug 8, 2014, 10:14 PM - Edit history (1)

For more than one reason. First you tell me there's no technological way to determine where these tunnels with no exits are from the Israel side of the wall. You write- the IDF has no choice but to go into Gaza and risk their lives going house to house terrorizing and killing civilians while searching for these tunnels that you say have no exits and lay meters deep with no possible way to detect. They're just too deep, Hamas is smart and thought of this. They can be as deep as 60 meters, (then you say 60 feet, so you're not even making certain that what you post is consistent but we'll go with 60 meters.)

I did a little math, I'm not real good at it, so please, let me know if I'm wrong. 60 meters converted to ft equals roughly 196 feet 10 and 13/64 inches and 197 ft is about 2364 inches. Can we agree?

Now, are you certain that you want to stand by what you said in regards to GPR and it's capabilities?

Well guess what? You are wrong, wrong, wrong. Technology does exist GPR capabilities are far greater that what you attest to. GRP has the capability (depending uppon the material) of penetrating thousands of feet below the surface. Thousands of feet is more than thousands of inches.

"How Deep Can It Go?

This is probably one of the most commonly asked questions. In most cases an estimated depth range can be determined with accuracy based upon the subsurface material and the frequency of the GPR antenna. For applications requiring higher resolution, such as locating rebar or conduits in concrete, a higher frequency GPR system (1,000 MHz) is used. This will give high resolution detail for down to approximately 24 inches in depth. Applications which require deeper penetration in ground soil requires a lower frequency (12.5 MHz to 500 MHz). Depending on the subsurface material the depth range can be from a few inches to thousands of feet (as indicated in the chart).



http://www.global-gpr.com/gpr-technology/how-gpr-works.html

there is this as an answer as well.

The Pancho Villa Expedition—officially known in the United States as the Mexican Expedition[1] and sometimes colloquially referred to as the Punitive Expedition—was a military operation conducted by the United States Army against the paramilitary forces of Mexican revolutionary Francisco "Pancho" Villa from March 14, 1916 to February 7, 1917 during the Mexican Revolution 1910-1920.

The expedition was launched in retaliation for Villa's attack on the town of Columbus, New Mexico, and was the most remembered event of the Border War. The expedition had one objective: to capture Villa dead or alive.[2] Despite successfully locating Villa and defeating the force under his command, Villa himself escaped American forces and the operation came to a close.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa_Expedition

In your example, was the incursion into Mexico by US forces back then- for the purpose of destroying tunnels?

Thanks or your answer though.

but, it was to end what was essentially an incursion on US soil. While it does not specifically deal with the mechanics of destroying tunnels it does compare to what a national government will do to protect it's borders. So in that sense it does reflect upon the situation in Gaza. I don't think that either were necessarily justified, but it does reflect on the broader issue.

Mind if I ask you to be more specific?

Is the Mexican army using them for terrorist attacks on the U.S.?

and I said up thread, I'm certain Americans have died on occasion as a result of the use of illegal tunnels between Mexico and the US.

My question was in regards as to how the tunnels are destroyed, not what they are used for.

As well as destroying the tunnels There is a difference.

it's about how illegal tunnels are destroyed between the US and Mexico

But you're right. I did forget about Poland.

Nonsensical.

nt

The Government of Mexico is behind the tunnels to the US? And they are using it to fight a war?

My question is about destroying tunnels and the method the US uses when tunnels are discovered coming from Mexico.

As poster Jberryhill pointed out in post #17
"Back up a cement mixer and plug it from one end.

It takes no great expertise to destroy a tunnel, and doesn't require access to both ends of it."

But they actively work with us to find them. There are US law enforcement officers working in Mexico.

Major fail

secondly, they have not invited Israeli police in to help find and destroy the tunnels.

Perhaps a nice cup of tea is in order for you. Have a good evening now.

Not that the distinction matters to you, I wager.

if it could be proven that Mexicans built tunnels specifically to enter the US and do great harm to
Americans, you can bet we would be at war with Mexico.

You clearly stated a hypothetical and have realized it isn't remotely parallel. I suggest you edit, or something.

and how the US deals with illegal tunnels between the US and Mexico. I never mentioned Israel or Gaza.

Own it. It's obvious.

try to relax and have a good evening.

You seem frustrated. lol, too funny

Thanks for your contribution. You have a real nice evening now.

with the Mexican government to handle the problem.