General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsElectric Monk
(13,869 posts)amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)I do not understand why criticizing Israel is antisemitism. Why can they do no wrong in the eyes of so many?
Iamthetruth
(487 posts)I don't think people that criticize Israel on their war against hamas are anti semitic, what I think they are are living in a fantasy world. Most Jews know what anti semitism is because they have experienced it in their life much like a black man or women have seen racism before. I don't think any of you are anti semitic, but I do believe hamas is.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)Is it a chicken or an egg? What does it have to do with how the Israelis treat Palestinians? Arabs are Semites too. Is Israeli contempt for Palestinians anti-Semitic?
imthevicar
(811 posts)Be a Semite First. Most Israelis (Approx 90%)are not. This is a Shield the IDF and other War criminals that function as the Israel's Government hide behind.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)anymore than all Jews are Semites. In fact, most Semites are Arabs.
Behind the Aegis
(53,987 posts)Just as it is irrelevant that some Arabs are Semites. Anti-Semitism very simply means "discrimination/hate/bigotry against JEWS." It is not complicated at all. Despite the fact that the prefix "in-" means "not", "inflammable" does not mean "not flammable."
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)By your definition opposition to the policies of the Zionist state is not necessarily anti-Semitic unless it based upon hatred of Jews. It is unlikely that all or even most opposition to Israeli policy is anti-Semitic unless all or most of those in opposition hate Jews, which is not credible.
Behind the Aegis
(53,987 posts)It is possible to be critical of Israel and it not be anti-Semitic, which is probably the norm. However, it is also possible for "criticism" of Israel to be anti-Semitic if the 'criticism' is based on typical, historical anti-Semitic myths.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)imthevicar
(811 posts)The Jewish Claim on the Land of Israel. The "God Says it ours!" Meme is rendered Meaningless.
Mosby
(16,350 posts)Mizrahi Jews from the middle east make up the largest Jewish group in Israel.
treestar
(82,383 posts)You'd be saying it was anti-Semitic to oppose Israel, even if you felt it was attacking you. The Nazis did it out of anti-Semitism, but the Palestinian opposition is based on an argument over land that could occur between any two groups.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Nice of you to concede that critics probably aren't anti-semites, though. Mighty white of you, I'd say.
Iamthetruth
(487 posts)How racist of you.
4now
(1,596 posts)you will ever find on the newspaper front page.
Someone told me that a long time ago.
2banon
(7,321 posts)how to post it on my fb?
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,008 posts)I'm not impressed. It manages to highlight anti-Semitism with juvenile word play. I'm assuming this survived a jury so I won't alert.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)It's merely pointing out that any criticism of Israel's policies toward Palestinians is not Antisemitism.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)The ironic thing is the person who made the remark didn't even know I was of Jewish ancestry.
If I try hard enough I can recall several instances where I witnessed anti-semitism and they were all independent of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)You've completely missed the point of the toon.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Criticism of Israeli policies is not and should not be construed as criticism of Jews, per se, which is anti-semitism. However, the cartoonist trivialized anti-semitism in the process.
Galraedia
(5,027 posts)If not, then I'm not attacking your religion. Personally, I wish people would stop defending Israel with accusations of anti-semitism as if Israel somehow represents the entire Jewish faith. All this does is create actual anti-semitism, because when you associate your religion with your nation you associate the actions your nation takes (like dropping bombs on children) with your religion.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I come from a secular family. Actually I have had much more exposure to Christianity than the religion I was born into. I believe the Messiah has come so that certainly puts me at odds with most Jewish people though I do believe we share a common heritage and are loosely, maybe very loosely related to one another. Not that would have helped me in Hitler's Germany but I digress...
I will write it in caps. I have already written it several times in this thread:
CRITICISM OF ISRAEL IS INDEPENDENT OF CRITICISM OF JEWS AND THE TWO SHOULD NOT BE CONFLATED!
I just think the cartoon trivializes anti-semitism. It's odd. I could probably go through life and never be affected by anti-semitism. I am this amorphous thing called American in every way but when I hear an anti-semitic comment it wakes up my reptilian brain and makes me apoplectic.
I normally avoid these I/P discussions. As I have written I just want peace to come to those two troubled peoples.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)justify what Israelis do to Palestinians?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I said I have witnessed many instances of anti-semitism and they were all independent of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
I grew up in the exurban south. I have met people who literally believed Jews had horns. They never heard of the I/P conflict nor was at the forefront of discussion when they held these beliefs.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)I should have read your comment with greater attention. Sorry.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I'm just saying anti-semitism is legit. And much of it is independent of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Like I said I get to hear most of these anti-semitic remarks because the people making them don't know I have Jewish ancestry. What's odd is the people making these remarks don't think they might actually be talking to a Jewish person.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)This is satire...maybe that's the part you aren't getting. I was not being condescending to you. I was pointing out that your antisemitic comment did not make sense because it does not compare to the satirical comments made in the toon.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Go ahead and alert.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I have witnessed several instances of it and they were all independent of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)than belonging to a group of people or suffering one's people being denigrated is painful, and serves to emotionally obscure the commonality of our humanity. It is a cruel and ignorant thing to experience, regardless of who it targets.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I was brought up to define people by what they do and not who they are.
tea and oranges
(396 posts)of Condi Rice (worst secretary of state ever) was called racism by the GOP.
When you're an authoritarian you grab at anything to avoid personal responsibility or to deflect blame.
Behind the Aegis
(53,987 posts)Then again, how could it not be when people can't even get the basic definition of "anti-Semitism" correct (see above). Seems it wasn't just the I/P rule for GD that was 'relaxed.'
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)As if the problem of anti semitism has disappeared and those that say it still exists are being paranoid.
I have witnessed at least several incidents of anti-semitism in the last several months.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)tritsofme
(17,399 posts)But the vast majority of anti-Semites are opponents of Israel. There is a lot of overlap.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)IMHO, some who criticize the perceived conflating of the issues are practicing a kind of anti-anti semitism.
Kurska
(5,739 posts)I'd like to point out Latuff is also a gay man who openly cheered for the Islamic millitants who would kill him in cold blood for his sexuality.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)I can't take the "it's not anti-Semitism" protestations of an anti-Semite cartoonist too seriously.
Sid
Galraedia
(5,027 posts)Hating the Israeli government doesn't make someone anti-semitic. Hating Jews makes someone anti-semitic. Stop confusing the two.
JI7
(89,264 posts)Galraedia
(5,027 posts)The fact that they chose the nation Obama's father was born in to claim he isn't an American, doesn't make them racist. What makes them racist is their relentless pursuit to label the first African-American president as not being a real American despite all evidence proving he is.
JI7
(89,264 posts)LloydS of New London
(355 posts)durec
Enrique
(27,461 posts)but your pattern of posting strikes me as possibly indicative of anti-Semitism.
It seems like you are taking advantage of the temporary relaxation of I/P rules, to post as much anti-Israel material as possible during that window. And it shows the reason for those rules.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Response to Galraedia (Original post)
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SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)they would begin killing each other very soon
Response to Galraedia (Original post)
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