General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFor balance, who are the superior contemporary painters?
Having read a lot of Kinkade threads, they lack for context. Granting that Kinkade was not the best painter of the 21st century, what contemporary work is better? (Works done since, say, 1990 and limited to painting)
This is not a contentious question. This is a curious question... offered to learn something. There has been an uncommon lot of discussion of artistic merit here of late, but it is hard to talk about merit without comparison.
Please include pictures!
I'll start. I like Wayne Thiebaud, landscape painter and America's foremost expressionist painter of cakes. He was born in 1920 but is still working in the 21st century. He even did a New Yorker cover in the last few years.
YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)ananda
(28,874 posts)... exponentially better than either Thiebaud or Kinkade.
ananda
(28,874 posts)Ocampo's amazing illusion paintings really grab me. The first day of my last year's job with a psychiatrist I saw what I thought was an original painting of Don Quixote and the windmill on her wall. I was just mesmerized by it and found myself looking for all the illusions, while at the same time totally appreciating the art of it. Check out these sites:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavio_Ocampo
http://www.slideshare.net/pacific2000/illusion-paintings-octavio-ocampo-presentation
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Rather than doing a regular guestbook, we got a large print of this and had the guests sign it.
pscot
(21,024 posts)This is an interesting site. Lots of variety and some good links.
http://www.linesandcolors.com/2006/09/13/jacek-yerka/
drmeow
(5,023 posts)an interesting post about Kincaid
http://www.linesandcolors.com/2012/04/07/thomas-kinkade-1958-2012/
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Unconditional Love
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Tell us more about that painting.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)A Sense of Wonder... a Delving Curiosity...
by G. Jurek Polanski
EXCERPT...
"Desecration" (1999) is exemplary; and a particularly arresting piece. At center left a chimera -- bird-winged, animal and man -- urinates, -- whizzes-- onto what strongly recalls the Tree of Life so central to centuries of Christian emblemata. Popular legend has it that hedgehogs use their back spines as a larder, for storing and carrying food. In "Desecration" the hedgehog retreats from beneath the tree, a captured apple on its back, and offers rebellious protest. The composition allows at least two distinct readings: either the desecration is malice toward the benefit the tree affords the hedgehog, or the hedgehog, with a parting hiss, bears away a token rescued in the course of the act. The work offers a universal, a primal impulse, but 'universal' does not imply an absence of ambiguity. Palubinskas herself, in an April 1, 1999 article of the Grosse Point News, stated "I want to show how unstable and multilayered this dualistic world is."
"Desecration" plays with insight and delight upon shared and traditional imagery: the desecrator resonnates with chords from medieval carvings and illuminations, Hieronymous Bosch, perhaps even TV commercials. It takes remembrances from folklore and old wives' tales and gives them rebirth through the overtones of the philosophic and the psycholgical. Renata Palubinskas noted at the opening for this show that she believes "Desecration" will be the first in a series of related oil paintings.
CONTINUED...
http://www.artscope.net/VAREVIEWS/Palubinskas0799.shtml
PS: I don't know the artist, personally, but I knew of her work when I could almost afford a hedgehog painting -- miniatures starring the wonderful creature. Personally, I think Ms. Palubinskas is the greatest thing since Hieronymus Bosch. Our world needs more vision of worlds most cannot see.
flamingdem
(39,319 posts)a possum, or some combo?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Playground III (Hedgehog with Apple)
Here's a good combo, one that helps me keep hope alive and my dukes up:
Rising of a New Man
(Dunno why, but the glass hat appears to be filled with pickles.)
Mimosa
(9,131 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 10, 2012, 01:22 PM - Edit history (1)
I don't believe good artists are superior to other good artists. They are just different.
From the 1930s and 40s I like the work of women surrealists. I've collected some works by better Haitian painters including Fritzner Alphonse and Jn Albert Bernard. Mark Andresen, formerly of New Orleans, is an artist/illustrator whose works are imaginative and original. He published a book about NOLA before Hurricane Katrina.
Back in the early 1990s I came across paintings by a then South Carolina artist named Jonathan Green. I think he lives and works in FL now.
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1405&bih=631&q=jonathan+green+paintings&gbv=2&oq=jonathan+green&aq=2&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_l=img.1.2.0l10.1992l5940l0l7853l14l14l0l3l3l0l99l943l11l11l0.llsin.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)I have to spend some time with him.
lame54
(35,317 posts)yardwork
(61,700 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Gurney went to art school with Kinkade. Both men wanted to make money. Both men thought of something people would like, and operated outside the (aesthetically absurd) contemporary fine art establishment.
Gurney invented DINOTOPIA which spawned several books, prints and a short-lived TV show. Gurney's work is essentially Alma-Tadema paintings with dinosaurs strewn about--trading on two popular things.
The thing is, Gurney is an excellent artist. I am not in love with him, but his work has apparent quality. He is an able extrapolation of the 19th academic tradition. His work is richer and more graceful and more ambitious than that of most of his (fantasy illustrator) contemporaries.
It's not about what some real or imagined critical establishment thinks. Gurney is a better artist than Kinkade even by the most traditional standard.
http://www.delart.org/exhibitions/dinotopia.html
pitohui
(20,564 posts)a bit of a gimmick but it wins on "cuteness" points
not that there's anything necessarily wrong with a gimmick, you could say warhol was ALL gimmick, and at one point i owned a dinotopia book, now what happened to it? maybe i already resold it...who knows...
my problem w. kincade is not that he wanted to make money, everyone wants to make money, my problem w. kincade is the fraud...selling prints as originals and all that sort of deceptive crap...if it was just a matter of "hey, this guy is a corny artist" i wouldn't waste my time crapping on him any more than i waste my time crapping on the "blue dog" guy
and the blue dog guy, whatever i may think of his artistic merits, is a good person trying to do good with his money, not trying to rip people off...although that big ole blue dog statue they put up is a bit much but if the tourists like it and he's trying to help the area, then his heart is in the right place
we can't all be great artists but we can be decent people even if we have a gimmick
kincade seemed to have set out from the get-go to be a fraud and to rely on an ugly brand of "i'm saved so it's ok to cheat the heathens" brand of marketing which i have encountered in other businesses (not usually art but OFTEN in real estate, contractors, etc) -- this is my objection to him
if he was just a bad artist i'd be silent but he was a bad human being
picasso can be a bad human being because he was a great artists but kincade basically had nothing going for him except to be the bernie madoff of art
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)and have never understood why there wasn't a law suit over it.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)First, I should say that I don't know that Gurney didn't do any pre-production work for that movie... he may have for all I know.
But anyway, Lucas is a big illustration collector and in particular Maxfield Parrish. The wedding of Anakin (?) and what's her name was set in an intentional copy of a parrish painting (that Lucas probably owns).
Gurney uses Maxfield Parrish elements throught Dinotopia.
Same thing with Lawrence Alma-Tadema, who Dinotopia most resembles. Lucas (and Lucas' designers) are also Alma-Tadema fans.
And so on.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)as I'm stuck in the later 20th with the Bay Area Figuralists like Davd Park and Richard Diebenkorn, and more generally, in that moment when people working in Abstract Expressionism broke out on their own in some other direction.
David Park
Diebenkorn
I learned how to draw figures by copying R.C. Gorman's huge women with big feet.
He became a brand as did Veloy Vigil but there was a moment before that that was interestng.
Vigil
progressoid
(49,996 posts)I think he qualifies as contemporary,
flamingdem
(39,319 posts)thanks for that
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)because the way he sees things is a lot like the way I see things. It was uncanny. I have "Sea Wall" and one of his Berkeley landscapes up in the studio and rest my eyes on them every day. lol
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)Very disappointing, but how does one evaluate his work knowing this?
edhopper
(33,606 posts)I will pick some artist who also do landscapes, largely based on plein air work.
Richard Schmid, who I think is one of our finest living artists:
[img][/img]
Clyde Aspevig
[img][/img]
And Scott Christianson
[img][/img]
There is also John Stobart who recreates seaports of the past. But paints with a strong reality based on his field work. It is also where Kinkade copied the lighted window stuff he forces into his paintings.
[img][/img]
Mimosa
(9,131 posts)Yes, the Wyeths are 'dryer' and far more facile than Kinkade.
http://www.artnet.com/usernet/awc/awc_thumbnail.asp?aid=424053410&gid=424053410&works_of_art=1&cid=70129
Here's something completely different:
Ever hear of Thomas Woodruff?
http://thomaswoodruff.com/four-temperament-variations/
A wonderfully inventive fantasy/surrealist artist.
The Wyeth's, including NC were all fantastic artists.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Brother Buzz
(36,458 posts)ananda
(28,874 posts)Bigtime. I so need an education in contemp art.
I bookmarked this link, and I've followed some of the links provided.
I really like Jacek Yerba, for example.
THANK YOU!
frylock
(34,825 posts)Mimosa
(9,131 posts)This is even deeper. Leonora Carrington died last year. Her paintings make Frida Kahlo's look demure. They are smooth, strange, haunting and occult. Each painting is very different but her work is cohesive.
http://malhouette.blogspot.com/2012/02/leonora-carrington.html
Mimosa
(9,131 posts)Michael Deas is a classicist. He lived in New Orleans for a while. His paintings look stunning when viewed in person. Though you all have seen many of his images on postage stamps, the original paintings are quite large!
http://www.michaeldeas.com/TeddyRoosevelt.htm
This is breathtaking 'in person':
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Not all his work was brilliant but there are a few I've seen (like above)
that take your breath away. I knew David briefly in Provincetown shortly
before his death in March 2010. He had been homeless, poor, depressed,
and had AIDS for many years (but died of apparent drowning.)
The first night we met, he said "every day when I wake up, I make the
decision to live." R.I.P
http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=&sa=X&ei=bGmET7zPPMO-2gXcxdnxCA&ved=0CAsQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNEeb47eZ7KYEhrVJr69AHSQtWf-hg
Jankyn
(253 posts)Saw his Abu Ghraib paintings at Berkeley. He's just great in general.
Abu Ghraib paintings by Botero
site about Botero
Don't know how to add pictures or I would.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)ananda
(28,874 posts)These two aren't exactly contemporary, but I'm not sure they are as well known as they should be... in my mind, the two greatest painters of the 20th century... Pavel Tchelichew and Irving Norman. I saw Norman's exhibit at the Crocker in Sacramento in June 06, and it blew me away. I was so mesmerized that I didn't want to leave, so I got the book. Then not too long after, I learned about Tchelichew and was mightily impressed. Tchelichew is on exhibit at MOMA in New York. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Tchelitchew
and
http://www.irvingnorman.com/
I'm especially impressed with Norman because of his life story and his troubles with the FBI. His art includes the entire history of art also, which is one of the main reasons it so engrosses me.
On edit: I should add that Frida Kahlo is also great among the 20thc. artists. Her work inspires poetry!
pitohui
(20,564 posts)i'm going to go and see if i can pick up a link but photos are not enough, you should see his work in person, it'll knock your socks off
pitohui
(20,564 posts)"betty" was visiting the tate modern recently, don't know if she's still there
http://www.gerhard-richter.com/art/paintings/abstracts/detail.php?4664
he has many wonderful abstracts, but they are much more impressive in person because his paintings is rather sculptural, he uses his whole body to put on heavy layers and he gouges/scrapes off layers, amazing the control of color
this guy can do anything!!!
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)pitohui
(20,564 posts)i couldn't get the pix to load just the links
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)knock-off schmaltz, greeting card stuff, which he did to be commercial. I wonder if there are any of his works, hidden in a closet. that will come to light after his death, to prove that he might have been a great artist. To be a good artist, you have to be original. I think most people, if they took just one elementary art appreciation or art history course in a community college night school class, would get the difference.
I like that cake painting, but I wouldn't hang it on my living room wall because I would be 300 pounds easily within the year. There are many paintings I consider quality art though that I wouldn't hang on my living room wall for various reasons like that. So perhaps I can see why Kincade's fantasy landscapes would be appealing to many people. There is something comforting about them.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Jos Sances
I own a print of this signed by the artist.
He also has a "Kinkade" series, which I'd not known before.
Arthur Gonzalez (a teacher of mine)
William T Wiley
JitterbugPerfume
(18,183 posts)MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)hedgehog
(36,286 posts)to keep food on the table. He also had a wicked sense of humor!
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)...Kinkade, were that way not necessarily because the subjects of his painting were often thoughtless and commercial but because he was a real villian, having used his Christian faith to lure thousands of investors into sinking money they didn't necessarily have to spare on what they believed was essentially a Christian-centric art empire.
All of that was a load of crap. Many people lost their shirts. Several of them sued for his deceptive business practices and won multi-million dollar judgements against him.
Criticism of Thomas Kinkade begins with his art, but the real ugly with that guy had to do with his evil business practices.
That's key in any discussion of Kinkade.
PB
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Steve Rude
Adam Hughes
Alex Ross
Mike Kaluta
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)He just absorbed all of Loomis's old books. Very old-school.
Hughes is quite good, and Kaluta too. (Though i'm predjudiced to his older stuff)
Never liked Ross, myself, but I know many disagree.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)(Pssst, it's actually my work.)
bluesbassman
(19,379 posts)Now don't go getting all commercial on us, ok?
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)bluesbassman
(19,379 posts)Not surprised though.
librechik
(30,676 posts)fishwax
(29,149 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)Courtesy Flush
(4,558 posts)Takahiro Hara
Daniel Sprick
Charles Dwyer
Maya Kulenovic
Steven Assael
Mark Dempsteader
Lucong
Steven Mackey
Richard Schmid
David Leffel
Odd Nerdrum
Michael Hussar
Shepard Fairey
John Asaro
Courtesy Flush
(4,558 posts)of Shepard Fairey's work...
Mimosa
(9,131 posts)Google Shpehard Fairey and plagiarism.
His stuff is not 'art'.
Courtesy Flush
(4,558 posts)Breaking rules isn't what defines a hack. Hacks are more likely to adhere rigidly to them.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)In 2006 Fairey printed a near exact copy of an already existing skull and crossbones artwork he found, altering the original design only by adding the words "OBEY: Defiant Since '89" along with a small star bearing the face of Andre the Giant. The image was reproduced as a T-shirt and added to Faireys OBEY fashion line.
As luck would have it, Wal-Mart plagiarized the master plagiarist, copying and printing Faireys rip-off and adding it to the superstores own fashion line. A shopper at Wal-Mart recognized the skull motifs origin and angrily protested - as it was an exact duplication of the infamous logo belonging to the Gestapo, the Nazi "secret state police" that served as personal bodyguards to Adolf Hitler and administered the concentration camps where the genocide of the Jewish people was put into practice.
Unsurprisingly Wal-Marts T-shirts became a nationwide controversy, with legions of infuriated citizens insisting the superstore apologize and pull the offensive items from their shelves - a demand that was ultimately met. Eventually it came to light that Shepard Fairey was first responsible for manufacturing and selling the T-shirt, and when confronted by the website, consumerist.com, Fairey offered the following excuse: "When I made that graphic I was referencing a biker logo and it was only brought up to me later that it was the SS skull." First, Fairey openly admits to directly copying an image created by someone else (he calls this "referencing" , and then feigns innocence when faced with the odious background of the original Nazi designers. In the same set of remarks made to consumerist.com, Fairey insists that he is "anti-fascist and pro-peace", but what kind of anti-fascist does not recognize the symbols used by the Nazi regime? Faireys only defense here is full-blown ignorance - hardly an attribute expected in artists supposedly dedicated to social commentary.
http://www.art-for-a-change.com/Obey/index.htm
A poster by the great artist Fairey:
A poster by Solomon Moser 1901:
"Needless to say, there was no credit given to the original artist, Koloman Moser."
"a tracing so precise that when the two versions are put together and held up to the light - all lines match perfectly."
If you think Shephard is just a "rule-breaker" then you shouldn't have any problems with Kinkade either. Two peas in a pod.
Except that Kinkade actually had drawing and painting skills.
And warhol, much as i despise him, didn't "steal" anything. He painted a picture of a well-known consumer product. It was because the can's design was so well-known that there was no question of "stealing" any design.
And again, Warhol could actually draw and paint.
Shephard literally TRACES obscure artwork by other artists and passes it off as his own.
A thief, a hack, a money-grubber.
He steals art, particularly leftist art, attaches his (stolen) giant logo & some stupid saying, and sells it as part of his clothing line. Radical.
Not content with stealing original artworks from Rene Mederos, Fairey also filched art from another celebrated Cuban poster maker, Félix Beltrán. A well-known street poster by Fairey depicting the celebrated 1960s radical, Angela Davis, is in fact a near-exact copy of a famous silkscreen print by Beltrán.
Lincoln Cushing identified Faireys poster as a copy of Libertad para Angela Davis (Freedom for Angela Davis), created by Beltrán in 1971. Fairey gave no credit or recognition to the Cuban artist, who is very much alive and residing in Mexico. In addition, this particular theft of an existing artwork of Angela Davis begs the question, does Fairey mean to mock or praise leftist icons?
"One important thing to acknowledge is that Fairey is not just appropriating, but also copyrighting images that exist in our common history.... Fairey is attempting to personally capitalize on the generosity of others and privatize and enclose the visual commons (as seen by the prominent copyright symbols on his website and products)."
"I think that the art experience is to raise someone's consciousness, and at the end of the day the Shepard Fairey experience is to promote the brand of Shepard Fairey as a corporate entity, so I don't consider it art. He is about the furthest thing from art there is."
http://www.art-for-a-change.com/Obey/index.htm
Courtesy Flush
(4,558 posts)I wonder if KinKade ever stirred up so much passion (and so many edits) from anyone.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)there are so many edits because your hero's crimes are so numerous i kept finding more to add to the list.
he not only traces other people's work without attribution, he tries to copyright it as his own and sell it in his "clothing line".
his work is the equivalent of stealing someone's car, tying a box on it, and selling it as his own.
crooks are 'rule-breakers' too and they're still crooks.
ooh, edit!
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)progressoid
(49,996 posts)Kent Bellows. Sadly, he died a few years ago unexpectedly. He was a great guy.
http://kentbellows.org/kent-bellows/
These don't do justice to the detail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Bellows
discopants
(535 posts)Throughout Chuck Close's career he has blurred the lines between abstraction and hyper realism
[IMG][/IMG]
librechik
(30,676 posts)Courtesy Flush
(4,558 posts)Here's a picture of me at the easel with a painting I did this year. It now has a frame made of wooden yardsticks.
Courtesy Flush
(4,558 posts)I'm kind of new to Pinterest, and I hope more art lovers jump onboard. It's great for art bookmarking. Not just wedding ideas.
Edit: This is not to promote myself. Just where I bookmark other artists I enjoy.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)http://www.sierranevadachronicles.org/pictures/pics/Norton%20Bush.htm
but seriously, i'm going to make the argument that all such elevations of one "artist" above another are class-bound and that the very category of "artist," along with all the notions attached to it (e.g. real artists break new ground; "suffering artist," real artists don't do "trite," etc) is a creation of capital (v. the category of "craftperson" .
Art collectors lets face it they are art investors. People who are interested in making art they purchase and invest in appreciate in value and then the museums, of course, help that. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize its a pretty corrupt system. It would not be tolerated in any other form of commerce. The idea that art collectors (mostly white males) are deciding what museums collect, and what becomes part of our art history, is not populist at all. Its really letting power determine what our history is.
http://artinfo.com/news/story/797387/guerrilla-girl-talk-the-masked-art-radicals-on-their-new-research-the-art-market-and-occupy-wall-street
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
He is the only American that has had a ceiling commissioned by the Louvre.
Typical NYC Lib
(182 posts)He's painted my house eveery summer since '93. Wouldn't even THINK of hiring anyone else!
kentauros
(29,414 posts)So, I'd recommend Mahmoud Farschian (he's Persian)
Kagaya (Japanese)
Alex Grey
Olivia de Berardinis
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)He made a lot of the art for the Final Fantasy games, among other things.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)edhopper
(33,606 posts)and gets it right, as opposed to Kinkade.
Brad Marshall
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)but I think a large part of that is that the artist is painting the light as it is, everything consistent with the time of day and direction of the light.
This is a good example where Kinkade's work is bad art. He throws everything into the painting.
Look at this painting:
[img][/img]
Is it sunset, midday, evening, morning? The sun is behind the trees, off to the right and it is also dark enough for the glow in the widows from lamps. No truth in this painting.
mia
(8,361 posts)I met him when he lived in Miami in 1979-80. He was an inspirational artist and way ahead of his time.
Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)
janx This message was self-deleted by its author.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Anselm Kiefer
Julian Schnabel
Jean-Michel Basquiat