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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShocking Picture of What Life Will Look Like When You Can't Afford to Retire
http://www.alternet.org/economy/shocking-picture-what-life-will-look-when-you-cant-afford-retireSince the financial crisis ripped the security out from under millions of people, the bulk of our politicians, including President Obama, actually tried to reduce, rather than increase, Social Security. The absence of pensions, along with the inadequacy of 401(k)s, skyrocketing healthcare and job insecurity and unemployment, are sending more and more people scrambling to figure out a way to keep body and soul together. Even grandparents are joining the ranks of those for whom life has become a game of Survivor. In an email interview, I asked Bruder about this alarming trend and what it means for the country, now and in the future.
Lynn Parramore: In your recent article in Harpers, you describe a trend of downwardly mobile elderly folks traveling the country in RVs in search of temporary and seasonal work. How many people are we talking about? How fast has this trend been emerging?
Jessica Bruder: Though no one keeps an official tally of how many older Americans are doing this kind of work, their ranks appear to be growing rapidly in the wake of the housing bust and market crashes.
Amazon first hired a handful of migrant full-time RVers in 2008 through a program the company later named CamperForce. As of 2014, it had expanded to employ some 2,000 workers, according to a recruiter I met in Quartzsite, Arizona. The American Crystal Sugar Company taps the same labor pool each fall to staff its annual sugar beet harvest, and their recruitment numbers are up, too. This year, theyre hoping to recruit 600 " workampers," up from 450 the year before.
LP: Whats the gender breakdown among these traveling workers? What kinds of work are men and women doing?
JB: I was impressed by how many older, single women I met among the working nomads, from a tarot reader living in a former convict labor van shed transformed into a roving gypsy boudoir, to an ex-medical technician who managed to fit her whole lifealong with a Shih-Tzu, a lovebird and a loquacious African Grey parrotinto a 10.5-foot Carson Kalispell sport trailer.
The gender breakdown was roughly even. Employers dont discriminate when doling out hard or dirty work, whether its scrubbing campsite toilets or walking 15 miles a day on a concrete warehouse floor to pack Amazons holiday orders.
LP: Amazons ads for CamperForce Associates sound so upbeat about the opportunities for older workers: recruiting flexible and enthusiastic RVers with a positive, can-do attitude to join us in our warehouses, with an emphasis on fun stuff like prizes and community activities.
Whats the reality of the actual work experience, based on your investigation?
JB: The ads are surreal. They sound like an invitation to summer camp, and not just the ones for Amazon jobs. Feel like a kid again! and Hey workamper, its time for fun! are a couple slogans used by recruiters for Adventureland, a theme park in Altoona, Iowa where migrant workers run the rides, games and concessions for $7.25 to $7.50 an hour. Recruitment materials for the beet harvest, with 12-hour overnight shifts in subzero temperatures, refer to the work as an unBEETable experience!
LuvNewcastle
(16,860 posts)picking beets and living in a camper when you're 65. Jesus, what is the world coming to? It's just not right for someone to have to work until they drop dead.
bulloney
(4,113 posts)He and his wife have children who live all over the country and they visit them regularly. He worked for unionized factories that made picture tubes and automobile parts. Yet, he only spews RW talking points and his TV is always running Faux Snooze. I once asked him if he thinks he would have the nice union pensions that enable him to live the quality of life he has if Republican policies had prevailed during his working years. He said it would have made no difference.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)with the RW voting base, if they have they could care less about those that don't have and IF they happen to not have they blame it on the democrats, immigrants and lazy selfish 'minorities'. Can't win with these people.
rpannier
(24,342 posts)He obviously doesn't realize it's the 21st century
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)And grandkids.
People are strange. In many cases, stupid.
In others.... just disgusting.
rurallib
(62,465 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)I know the kids of the 1 percent will be fine and get all the cushy stock options and golden parachutes and giant bonuses. Most everybody else's kids, including the Republican base's, will be out there scratching to get by, getting crap minimum-wage or barely better jobs, having no savings, having no retirement, being in debt for decades due to student loans, etc. etc.
BaggersRDumb
(186 posts)Amazing how stupid these motherfuckers are and they piss me off to no end.
No, dumbshit, without liberal politicians and policies and unions you would likely be homeless.
Dumb fuck
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)I want something Tax Free that I truely own. I will never really own my Condo, But I can pay cash for a camper or boat and live free, Get some solar panels and a composting toilet and I am Off grid. My only expense will be food, gas, and Maintainance
navarth
(5,927 posts)Exemplary thinking.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)I keep on hearing the mantra against paying taxes from retirees or near-retirees, and I find it incredibly disturbing. And don't give me the "I don't have kids in public school anymore" thing, because we all depend on having good public schools so that we will have the educated generation to help take care of us later on.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)I don't feel like I would ever own my condo, because I will always owe monthly fees and taxes. Trust me I pay tons in taxes every year, but once I retire I would like to keep as much money in a jar under my bed as possible.
Sue me I hate paying taxes, I hate paying mortgage, I hate owing anyone money, but I always pay my debts. It would be nice to have a future that was as debt free as possible.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)I have been researching solar panels and the RV. Very affordable way of living, much cheaper than a house and cheaper than an apartment. The solar videos on Youtube are a great way to research what set up you want to use.
Warpy
(111,383 posts)Saving is just another pipe dream unless they're willing to go to the extremes I did.
I had to go to those extremes because I couldn't get health insurance.
Back in the nineteenth century when they did work people until they dropped dead, at least cannabis, tincture of opium, and cocaine preparations were legal and over the counter. Now they want us to wring every drop of misery out of a Dickensian existence. I guess we are supposed to pray the pain away.
Assholes.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #1)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Brigid
(17,621 posts)Trillo
(9,154 posts)that doesn't mention going to school to get retrained.
I'm not sure if this is sarcasm.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)It's not so much about which party as about the fact that most elected officials are working for the corporations and not the people.
We need to stop thinking that Dems are wonderful. I see in your sig that you have that idea as well. That's exactly why we're in this mess, because too many Dems go along with it.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)I recognize why we cannot accept Hillary Clinton as the Democratic Party nomination for president.
We should be united in our opposition to Hillary. Or we will end up with more years of Third Way right wing anti-labor, pro free trade bullshit.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)This. The core problem. Both sides are purchased by Big Money, it's the way the system is set up. Until we scrap private campaign donations & lobby influence, it's only going to get worse. Each side has their talking points, and we like the lefty ones, but once in office, they all represent the money that they whored themselves for.
USA = USC United States of Corporations
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)(though the BC NDP's not really worth it anymore)
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)He brought universal health care to Canada. There's a cartoon of Mouseland on Youtube.
Introduced by his grandson, Kiefer Sutherland:
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)RebelOne
(30,947 posts)Your eyes go, your hair thins, your teeth go and your body sags. I am lucky that my hearing is still good.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)Well, little by little, we are having to wake up from our "American Dream,"
into a daydream of "Corporate Nightmare."
heaven05
(18,124 posts)american capitalism at it's best............ How so very sad. Well if the rethugs, with the help of Third Way and 'bluedog' dinos, take my social security and put it in the stock market and postal pensions somehow get cut, I'm with them, me and my furry friends are FUCKED.
KG
(28,753 posts)JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)we'll be a semi-techincal fuedal society, the workforce composed predominantly of nomadic serfs trying to find the next job to fill their belly and gas tank.
Yeah....I think this is going to end up getting really nasty before it gets any better.
glinda
(14,807 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)I know some of them. They dont know for sure how much mom & dad have, but they're counting on that lump when the folks die to fund their own retirement. They live it up now, saving very little. I live in an area where a lot of the residents work for the military in a civilian capacity. Wages are public knowledge. Wages are pretty good, but when you look at how some of these folks are living, you wonder what they're gonna do when they retire. And their govt pension will be a pretty good one, but many are living in 300K houses and this is an area where you can live fairly comfortable making 35-45k a yr.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)has skyrocketed the number of current elderly who are forced to use reverse mortgages, annuity liquidation, sale of assets just to meet growing expenses. So what these parents hoped to leave their children is being hollowed out and transferred upward to the One Percent right now.
navarth
(5,927 posts)Unless they're pretty well-off, count on all the parent's money to be spoken for. This, of course, assumes the kids are quality people and take care of their parents properly. That money is gone, baby, gone.
SomeGuyInEagan
(1,515 posts)Then the elder moves to a lower cost facility and at that point Medicaid kicks in.
Inheritance is typically only occurs in the case of a sudden death w/o health issues for someone still living assistance-free in their own home, which are few.
kelly1mm
(4,735 posts)elder care. That is what many middle-class/upper middle class do around here.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,304 posts)In fact I had to spend a bit of my own money on my mom's care in her final years.
glinda
(14,807 posts)for 2.5 years now with my parents...one now deceased and the other now terminal. I am very aware that Corporations and Government eyeball how much money they have and dive for dollars. They all dive for dollars knowing that they want to suck it dry. They do not care about middle class or lower class having any money for their children let alone even a few personal possessions.
kelly1mm
(4,735 posts)They are not JUST for rich folks now-a-days.
ancianita
(36,160 posts)I see this near where I live in Florida. Maybe half will be nomadic and half will pass on inherited property as each generation works enough to pay property taxes and get by.
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7962
(11,841 posts)Its amazing what some of these sell for. My good friend is a finance man for one of the largest Coachman dealers and he's shown me some that go for 400k. I dont get it.
malaise
(269,219 posts)Rec
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)kairos12
(12,882 posts)Abouttime
(675 posts)But I still think the only hope for the safety net known as social security is means testing.
The fact that so few have so much, wealth, IRAs etc and the majority of us have no accumulated wealth to retire on will lead to unrest in the future unless something drastic is done.
russspeakeasy
(6,539 posts)bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)be treated as just another welfare program. Since the 1 percenters are so few in number, eliminating them from soc sec benefits would do very little in saving the program.
It would be much better to lift the cap on soc sec contributions to increase the fund.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)And, that is at current benefit levels.
And, I don't think there is any way -- with the current or forseeable Congressional makeup -- to pass what amounts to roughly a 15 percentage point increase in taxes for those earning over the current cap (15% on the amount above the current cap).
salib
(2,116 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/solvency/provisions/index.html
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/solvency/
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/solvency/provisions_tr2010/payrolltax.html
The only way to make it work long-term is to essentially eliminate the cap and tell those who get hit with the extra 12% tax, "you pay more, but you don't get any more in benefits." Not gonna happen, and if it does, we are back to means testing.
salib
(2,116 posts)That is as good as one can plan for, I think. Don't you?
E.g., from your links, "Beginning in 2011, make all earnings subject to the payroll tax (but retain the current-law taxable maximum for benefit calculations" has indefinite longevity and even "Beginning in 2011, make all earnings subject to the payroll tax and credit them for benefit purposes" has longevity beyond the charts (beyond 2080).
You dismiss this by saying "Not gonna happen". So, it will not work because it will never happen.
Pleas do not insult us, saying it won't work, when the very references you cite (condescendingly telling me that "You could look it up yourself, but just for you" do not agree with your flat statement that it will not work.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)No forseeable Congress will pass that big a tax increase. And if the do, there are other needs beyond social security. I could sure use a boost to benefits, but it isn't going to happen except, possibly, for some on lower end of benefits scale. And we still have to elect more Democrats for that.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)in a nutshell, and thanks.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)you have never seen before.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)First, you turn it into a "welfare" program. We destroyed welfare in the 1990s. We've slashed every means-tested program to the point that they no longer come anywhere close to doing their job. You make Social Security means-tested, and you get the same result.
Second, means testing saves very little money. In your mind, means testing means not paying Social Security to the extremely wealthy. There's very few of them. So you don't save much.
And there's even fewer when they retire and stop receiving income from their job. The only way to make means-testing save significant money is to make the threshold very low....making problem number 1 happen much faster.
Want a simple fix? Change social security taxes to affect the same amount of income they did back when it was "reformed" in the 80s. Not only would Social Security be solvent forever, but we could dramatically increase the payments.
daredtowork
(3,732 posts)Please check out my petition:
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/work-while-on-welfare?source=c.em&r_by=11132229
Once you are on welfare, there is no more political will to preserve your ability to survive. Even progressive enclaves are mostly apathetic. When I brought my petition here, it took a few days to get the 15ish more sigs I needed just to bring a petition to my political representatives. Can you imagine what the response had been if I had actually been trying to get people to do stuff like join a march or give money or get in the game with food distribution and medical care?
Once you are in the welfare category, not only are your concerns are politically invisible, but politicians can lie about what's going on at will for whatever political purposes they want and they can use whatever resources that remain to you as their political piggy bank because even though your survival is at stake, the media won't raise a big a fuss because their readers and the businesses that pay for their advertising don't care.
The problems of welfare just look like a big ugly resource "vortex" to the people who have resources. Then again, if we put all our parents in that pot, then maybe people would care about it a little more.
Doremus
(7,261 posts)Means testing for social security will secure its demise.
Cut and dried.
The only thing that will affect change will be if more people get mad.
It's coming; the only question is when.
bullwinkle428
(20,631 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)And should have kept at bay.
My oldest sister will have a nice retirement, (she's actually retired now) and mine will likely be more like the campers.
JEB
(4,748 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)Rec
louis-t
(23,309 posts)Anyone see the ads for the micro houses? 300 sq ft shacks that are "all the rage". From this, the next step is living in 3'x3' cages like they do in China.
harun
(11,348 posts)navarth
(5,927 posts)Send the jobs overseas. Better profit with slave labor anyhow. These Murkan workers are too expensive and they lack subservience.
-Navarth, channeling John Galt or Paul Ryan or some other equivalent selfish prick
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Mostly we worked in campgrounds. For us it was a way to stretch our pension dollars since at the time I wasn't old enough for Social Security. But we used to work alongside old people who would go hungry if they didn't do those jobs and this was back when Clinton was President and after Reagan shot holes in Social Security.
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)...and most of the people I know in my age range aren't expecting to retire (including me). We're at best hoping to be able to switch to part-time work when our bodies start to give out. But we have no pensions because our companies don't offer them, or because we've changed jobs every few years, or because we've cobbled together full-time work out of 2 or 3 part-time jobs. We don't have 'retirement savings' -- our paychecks keep the mortgage paid and food on the table and if we're very very lucky they might see our kids through at least some part of college. And many of us think Social Security will be dead and gone by the time we hit 70, and even if it still is around there's no way we can actually live on it.
'Retirement' is one of those things that sounds nice but means nothing to a lot of folks of my generation -- kind of like 'job security' and 'lifetime employment.'
kelly1mm
(4,735 posts)However, there is a growing movement of people retiring early in part due to the ACA and 401k plans. With all their ills, 401k plans DO work rather well for those of us who job hop. My wife was a school teacher for 22 years and retired last June at 46. I will be retiring after the upcoming tax season and I will be 44. It is possible, especially if you are willing able to cut ongoing expenses (paid off home in low tax area, paid for economical car, solar panels, no cable, ect).
I read a lot on my way to being able to retire early. Mr. Money Mustache and Early Retirement Extreme are the main sources. They DO NOT talk about 'getting rich', rather how to reduce expenses and "live rich". Google them if you are interested.
ancianita
(36,160 posts)These more positive ideas and attitudes seem to contradict the bleak outlook posed by the OP. Maybe because we're such a mix in this country of people who enjoy travel and location change as much as those who want propertied comforts.
glinda
(14,807 posts)I love a little gallows humor in the morning!
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)and my wife and I have contemplated same several times.
My concern is that once we get to a point where 'Workampers' and transient mobile labor forces are the norm (and I have little doubt there are many in the corporate world that are projecting nothing but long term company gains from it and actively marketing it as an alternative lifestyle) , much like our current income set for the 99%, the powers that be will rush to utilize and push the labor force into it, which I'm afraid will drown out anyone that wants to live in one place and work without saying 'Do you want fries with that?'
ancianita
(36,160 posts)proReality
(1,628 posts)...we've decided to commit suicide inside Congress, while they are in full session. We're sending our suicide letters directly to the media.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)I rather love the idea myself 'Thank you, gentlepersons, for your time, we won't be long. We wanted you to have the blood sacrifice first hand instead of just another obituary' then sepuku ourselves all over the place.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Texano78704
(309 posts)Like Mexico and other Latin American countries where the cost of living is much lower.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)madville
(7,412 posts)Retired Americans living in Costa Rica. That's a bunch of pension, social security, and 401k dollars leaving our economy.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)VERY fortunate to be a retired public-school teacher. That is, if we can fend off Corbett's insanely destructive plans for teacher pensions.
alfredo
(60,077 posts)glinda
(14,807 posts)tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)The boomers will be the last generation that has retirement as we know it.
I look at my SS deductions as one more way that I'm subsidizing my parents generation. By the time I'm old enough, it will have all been used to bomb somewhere or sold to Wall Street. (I live in an area with a lot of very wealthy retirees so I do realize that my view is quite distorted).
cannabis_flower
(3,768 posts)is to go to my husbands's house in Honduras and sell it and then move to Uruguay. Maybe I can teach or tutor English for a few years before retiring completely.