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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe thank all applicants for their interest in this opportunity; however...
We thank all applicants for their interest in this opportunity; however, only those selected for an interview will be contacted.
August 28, 2014
That is a phrase I want banished from Human Resources and shot into outer space along with the person who used it for the first time.
In an earlier, more courteous day, when one applied for a job, one would type a cover letter, attach it to a CV, put it into an envelope, stamp it, and mail it. If one was applying to a radio station, a demo cassette would be included, the envelope would be bigger and thicker, and it was more expensive.
snip//
Somewhere around the mid-90s, rot started to set in, and the abovementioned phrase started to become a popular way to absolve Personnel workers of doing their duty. It then became the norm, and eventually ubiquitous.
And so today, even though almost all applications and indeed all communications are handled electronically and postage free, what is now called the Human Resources department no longer bothers to contact unsuccessful applicants, even though there is practically no effort involved in sending a standard, boilerplate PFO email to everyone at once.
I have been told by HR professionals that because they receive thousands of applications (as if companies in the 1980s didnt!), they cannot possibly afford the five minutes out of their day that it would take to send one of these bulk emails. And so, because courtesy and common decency are long since dead, unsuccessful job-seekers are left hanging, wondering if the job has been filled yet or when it will be or whether their application has gone unread to File 13, waiting for news that will never come, making follow-up telephone calls to HR voicemails that are never responded to. Because you know, they almost never answer the phones in HR.
snip//
Nevertheless, she said, the HR department has more and better things to do with its time than respond to everyone whos looking for a job. I said that IS her job, that when I was a creative director, I was always conscientious about letting people know when their submissions were unsuccessful. That was then, she said.
Then really, how disappointing. Apparently I come from then. Apparently courtesy is from then. Apparently business ethics are from then. Apparently doing your job is from then. I said, If you have trouble finishing your work by five oclock, well, thats what after five and weekends are forhave a nice day, and hung up on her.
more...
http://douglashicton.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/we-thank-all-applicants-for-their-interest-in-this-opportunity-however-only-those-selected-for-an-interview-will-be-contacted/
malthaussen
(17,216 posts)I date the downfall of our work atmosphere from the introduction of that term. WTF was wrong with "Personnel?" It wasn't impersonal enough?
But there, I'm from "then," too.
-- Mal
mopinko
(70,208 posts)like they are making soylent green.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)"Human Capital"
malthaussen
(17,216 posts)But really, they should just call it "Organic capital." "Human" has too human a ring to it.
-- Mal
valerief
(53,235 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)malthaussen
(17,216 posts)Like "wetworks." All that icky blood and juices. To say nothing of the tears.
-- Mal
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Can't have the icky "human" part anymore.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)That's what they want. Keep you just long enough to run the race, then screw you.
malthaussen
(17,216 posts)Feeling tense? Stressed? Under pressure? There's a pill for that!
-- Mal
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Their stuff is fine, but don't dare think for yourself, just do what we tell you.
KatyaR
(3,445 posts)Submitting a grant request for funding and never getting a response, either positive or negative.
sinkingfeeling
(51,473 posts)Kber
(5,043 posts)Is to ensure other employees are doing their jobs.
You can get fancy, and say it's about recruitment , retention, and performance management, but it boils down to getting people to show up and work.
Now, if a good candidate experience helps with that mission, then yes, it's part of the job to send thank you notes. If it doesn't, then resource strapped departments are going to focus their limited time elsewhere.
There is a false impression that HR is supposed to represent the views of the employee. If that helps in the mission, by creating a positive environment where employees are comfortable making suggestions and pointing out company mistakes, so be it. But make no mistake: even the most sympathetic, honest and helpful HR professional represents the company's interests, not the employees. An enlighten HR professional will try to create mutual best interests, but where there is separation, they side with the company.
If you want an employee representative, call your union rep.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Granted, lawyers handle any suits, but HR is the company's protective layer before a suit is filed.
Even if no money is paid out, lawsuits are enormously time consuming and distracting. They often occur when employees are disgruntled or upset.
A secretary being harassed by her boss is more likely to call in sick. A line worker upset about racial slurs is more likely to become distracted and make a mistake, or even get hurt. A finance manager fighting hiring discrimination claims will spend all kinds of time hunting through interview records and notes.
The common thread, all of the above are spending time doing something besides their jobs.
Add the potential of turnover because of a lousy environment or the toll a bad reputation takes on time to fill open positions, and lawsuits have a direct negative impact on HRs mission of ensuring employees are showing up and doing their jobs.
I can make tha same case for training (that's easy) company picnics (they build positive feelings and make employees happier about having to show up for work on a regular basis), bonus plans (again, easy), company subsudized cafeterias (employees who eat in spent less time away from their desks for lunch), 401(k) plans with a vesting plan and, of course, company paid health care as one of the biggest ways employers could keep employees from leaving. That last one, thanks to President Obama, has been substantially weakened lately.
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)Kber
(5,043 posts)I'm just pointing out that being courteous is only part of HRs job if it advances the core mission.
You can argue that being discourteous will lead to turnover, missed recruiting opportunities, ams other negative impacts to the company. Unless you make that case, the level of courtesy will depend on the individuals involved in any give human interaction.
What the OP article is suggesting is that a specific job function be required because to do otherwise isn't nice.
A better argument, and one that will get more attention in corporate America, is that HR is public facing and, for the good of the company's reputation, finding a way to personalize correspondence will pay off somehow.
It isn't as simple as a bulk email, by the way. Put an ad on CareerBuilder and you will get hundreds, sometimes thousands of resumes. The level of personalized response will depend on two things: has the company invested in a recruitment management system sophisticated enough to differentiate between types of applicants (a substantial expense) and has the company appropriately staffed the HR department (employees are also expensive).
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)As an Human Resources Professional, my role is to ensure that (and pardon the trite phrase) we get the right people on the bus and keep them on the bus by ensuring that they are sitting in the right seat.
We have very little to do with "ensuring other employees are doing their jobs" or "getting people to show up and work" (that's the line supervisors' job). I do, however, work with the line supervisor to ensure that they are giving the employee all the tools that the employee needs to do his/her job, including establish a safe and positive work environment.
You are correct that HR isn't supposed to represent the views of the employee ... My mantra is: I send 70% of my time telling employees, "Yes ... You really do have to do what your supervisor tells you to do (so long as it is not illegal, immoral or unethical)"; I spend the other 70% of my time telling management, "You can't do that because the lawsuit is going to read like this ...". My secondary mantra to employees is, "If you are in the right, I will fight for you; and if you are in the wrong, I will cry mercy ... if you let me."
Kber
(5,043 posts)And I think we are actually saying the same thing.
HR is an enabler, but not directly responsible. As you say, that IS line managements job. However, I would argue that you enable line managers to better manage their people to get their work done. It's indirect rather than direct, but no less (actually likely more) effective.
Your 70 / 70 split sounds spot on, too.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)we ARE saying the same thing.
Oh ... you got that. I say that all the time and people's eyes just glaze over.
Now ... maybe I'm just having a bad couple of weeks; but I've been dealing with an inordinate number of employees that I've had to tell that their job is whatever tasks their supervisor directs them to do ... and having them pushing back, saying "that's not my job." (And, in each of these cases, the directive is reasonable and related to the employee's job.)
Now ... maybe I'm more a part of the "Then"; but it would never have occurred to me to refuse to do a task that my supervisor directed me to do (and do it the way the supervisor directed), of course so long as it wasn't unlawful, immoral or unethical.
Unfortunately, I suspect these employee are not among those that will allow me to cry mercy for them, if they continue on their course.
Kber
(5,043 posts)Is called subordination.
And can be considered grounds for termination.
Good luck!!
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)what's more, I've asked them, why they are refusing? To a person, the answer has been "because my supervisor doesn't know what they are doing!"
My response has been, "AND?!? ... It's their call." I also advice, "Go on record, explaining why you think the directive is wrong; but if the supervisor insists, do it and let the supervisor be held to account for the poor decision."
Demeter
(85,373 posts)we are stuck in a never-progressing NOW...and the chance of seeing any improvement in the FUTURE is just about zero and still declining, BECAUSE Those that get to set policy are perfectly happy with things the way they are. And that is the entire problem with NOW.
Until the Revolution comes...and it's getting here. The worker/customer alliance that brought the Massachusetts Market Basket coup to its knees is our wave of the future, coming to wash away the sins of 1% cronyism and plunder.
So, boycott Burger King and Tim Hortons! Bring Warren Buffet to his knees!
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)the poor grammar and spelling rival the signs at a freeper rallay.
I have literally seen "requires attention to detial"
Job hunting is one of the few things not improved by the Internet.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)in the job posting, I'd immediately contact HR and ask to apply for the job the poster holds.
Now that's funny! And, if I took that call, just might schedule an interview!
CrispyQ
(36,509 posts)The jobs aren't coming back. It's a global economy & American corporations no longer have loyalty to the country, only the market. A poster above made an excellent point about the change from being the personnel department to the human resources department. We are commodities, nothing more. This attitude permeates our entire society. The right wing fundies believe the country turned away from God, but I believe the country turned away from the People.
beemer27
(462 posts)I am another one of those old timers who would love to see a return to common courtesy and a sense of performing one's job well. Now days it is a matter of showing up for work, putting in your time, and leaving at the earliest time you can get away with. Perhaps this (and crappy wages) is the reason for such a high turn over in some jobs.
valerief
(53,235 posts)loyalty and job pride from employees.
It's a two-way street. Employees are as disposable as toilet paper to employers nowadays no matter how much loyalty and job pride the employees have. It gets discouraging year after year.
matt819
(10,749 posts)How's this for an HR Fail?
My mid-twenties daughter got an interview for a restaurant manger job. She showed up on time; the interviewer didn't. So my daughter met with the confused owner. Things went okay.
Two days later my daughter meets with the manager. Things went okay.
One more interview, three days later. The initial interviewer - the guy who didn't show up on time - was no longer working there. No one else there, including the owner, knew what to do with my daughter. One of the owners met with her for a few minutes, apologized profusely, and then suggested my daughter call them back "in a few days" to schedule that third interview again.
Obviously, I'm leaving out a few details, but that captures the essence of the experience. Contempt for employees and prospective employees. Piss poor management - granted, small company, but still . . . - and they have the nerve to ask my daughter to call back. Not, "we're really sorry and we'll call you on Tuesday (holiday weekend and all) to schedule that final interview."
Look, I know it's not really fair to generalize from this one experience, but I've heard similar stories from my kids about their own and their friends' job hunting and working experiences. Don't get me started on federal government ineptitude and private equity firms' destruction of jobs, companies, workers, etc. Collectively they paint a picture of a truly savage work environment.
Kber
(5,043 posts)matt819
(10,749 posts)Owners. There's no hr.
matt819
(10,749 posts)I've been on DU since just a few months after its inception. Babylonsister is one of the gems of DU. Just sayin'.
riqster
(13,986 posts)freebrew
(1,917 posts)EVERYTHING management says is a lie.
Remember that if you are an underling in a corporation.
HR, like law enforcement, doesn't need or want anyone with an IQ over 125.
I had an HR guy tell me lies to my face.
I had an HR rep tell me she would call whether or not I got the job, twice. Promised.
Still waiting, 2 years now, maybe there's still a chance.
Nothing is lower than someone working in HR.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)explaining how companies used to hire employees capable of learning and then train them at their own expense, how it wasn't unusual to work for a company your whole career, how some companies sought to hire the children and grandchildren of their employees.
I felt like my mom, telling stories of what it was like to grow up in a house with no central heating or electricity. She says, "It's seems like a fairy tale now."
malthaussen
(17,216 posts)... I fully expect some Millennial to ask "what's a payroll robbery?" some time.
-- Mal
gtar100
(4,192 posts)the person who they award it to. Not only rhat, when she contacted them to find out about it, they wouldn't even tell her *if* they had made a decision yet! That is really messed up, lazy, and inconsiderate. A scholarship can make all the difference in the world on someone's plans. Apparently they didn't specify in the application a prerequisite is that one doesn't actually need the money.
They are lazy and inconsiderate people. Perfect bureaucrats. Destined for greatness in the corporate world.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)use Applicant Tracking Systems that start with candidates completing the applicant on-line (and attaching resumes/CVs) and requires an email address. Then, as the employer moves forward in the process, the unsuccessful candidates are sent an email indicating that they will not be moving forward.
So that phrase is rarely used now.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)they received your application. You're just made to feel like you don't even exist.
and then there was the time that I had an interview; went fine. They called back and scheduled 5 hours worth of interviews -- up to the VP level -- and some testing. I spent an entire day there, going from one interview to the next, etc.
And I never heard from them again. Not even the courtesy of a rejection.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)This fact was brought home to me when 2 of my nieces were recently hired - one in the metropolitan Boston area, and the other in central Ohio, by firms who handle phone calls/emails/benefits questions from employees of other companies.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/jobs/more-companies-are-outsourcing-their-human-resources-work.html?_r=0
MS. LUCAS said that if human-resources professionals work for the same company as the employees they serve, their interests are more closely aligned. If your performance is good, the company will make more money, she explained. A better-performing company means a better bonus for me, a happier workplace, and fewer problems all around.
But many internal H.R. functions have been cut to the bone, said Peter Cappelli, a management professor and director of the Center for Human Resources at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. Therefore, the idea that companies will be more strategic about human resources after they outsource requires some heroic assumptions, said Professor Cappelli, author of Why Good People Cant Get Jobs. Supervisors may be able to take over some important roles, but many of the people who were experts at recruiting, training and career development have been laid off, he said. So is it any surprise, he added, that companies complain that they cant find good people?
The world has moved toward self-service, he said, and that puts the emphasis on technology, and on information over advice. Sometimes, he said, theres literally no one to talk to.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)My various experiences with them have ranged from mediocre to terrible. In the old days when you applied for a job you might actually get a letter telling you that you didn't get the job but thanking you for applying, or at least you could get someone on the phone to find out. It all started going to hell in about the early '80s when corporate bullshit and deceptive jargon really took over and somebody decided it would be a great idea to call the employee management function or department "Human Resources" instead of "Personnel." Soon HR got to be a specific career. You could major in HR in college and actually get a degree in how to lie to employees.
The last time I had to apply for a job was in 2000, and it was to a large company, but fortunately I had a few connections and was able to communicate directly with the people who made the hiring decisions - not HR. I got the job, which I liked - until my company was acquired by an even larger one, and the HR bullshit started to flow thick and fast. HR started having employee meetings where they explained that we'd be filling out information on the computer that would allow the merged company to find the best match for everyone.
I could hear the flies starting to buzz around the bullshit. It soon became evident that what was going on was that we would all have to reapply for the jobs we already had. I made that point in one of these meetings, and you should have seen that HR person tapdance! Eventually, of course, some employees didn't make the cut that they had told us wouldn't happen, and morale was in the toilet. People who hadn't already been laid off started to quit. The worst thing about the whole experience is that we were lied to, repeatedly, about what would happen to us and our jobs. I have since retired, and have never looked back. If employers want a loyal, productive workforce they should take a damn hard look at the way they treat their employees.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Back in early management days I was a bit dissatisfied with my then current role and started looking elsewhere. I applied for a promising job, interviewed I thought fairly well, and heard nothing for three weeks longer than the "next week" decision I'd been promised.
Then they called and told me I was hired. I worked there for three years and was even promoted before I found out I was the second choice at that interview. The person they had hired turned out to be a bullshit artist who could not do what he so glibly claimed at his successful interview, and lasted less than a week. I stayed there nearly 8 years and both the company and I did very well out of it. Would I have been willing to join them had I got the rejection letter you suggest they sent out? Bearing in mind this was the mid/late 90s and I had my pick of jobs like most decent performers had then? Keeping your options open is not a foolish move.
Uben
(7,719 posts)I do it...all the time. When people are rude, I tell them they are rude. When they are wrong, I tell them they are wrong and explain why. Maybe this comes from being married to a counselor for so long. I have a tendency to tell people what they need to hear rather than what they want to hear. (doesn't work here, people are too combative)
For me, it doesn't matter who it is or how they might think of me afterwards, it's about how I feel about myself. I don't want to say later, "I should have....", so I do! Living in a republican bastion, I'm not the most popular person around, except for those who understand why I do this.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)airlines did not tell unsuccessful flight attendant applicants that they weren't hired. You only knew if you did not get an acceptance letter by some date. So this isn't a brand new process by any means.
The HR department at the hospital I recently worked it is possibly the most overworked department there. All jobs are posted on line and you start the application process on-line. The automatic response when you complete the application says that if you haven't heard back by thirty days, you must assume you're no longer being considered. However, almost the only way to navigate their hiring, which I did both times they hired me, is to call back a week before the drop dead date if the job you want is till posted, and tell them who you are and how interested you are in the job. Both times that got me back to their attention and I got the job. This may well not work at all with most companies, but it did with the hospital.
Anytime anyone asked me about working there, I told them about re-contacting HR that way.
nolabear
(41,991 posts)you are left waiting for months sometimes, unable to send things off elsewhere. It can take years to find a home for something.
Of course that simultaneous submissions thing gets ignored a lot, too.
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)Each store does this on a local level. It was my hubby's (we both work for the same company) least favorite thing to do.