But if more people spoke up when witnessing a willful act of discrimination, maybe there would be fewer.

Thanks for speaking up.

I think this is to the OP. If so, thank you

make one feel day after day after day.

It's almost too much to even think about. But we have to

people wouldn't have let it bother them.

Probably could have done more. But thanks again

day after day after day after day....

Interesting you should use that example. I just read a piece (A Samuel Warde blog but he didn't write it) about some "women's show" on Fox talking about catcalls. They all agreed it was nice, complimentary. Yick!

But true racism requires the perpetrator to have institutional power. You said the owner was neither white nor African American. Without more details, its difficult to determine if he truly has the power necessary for racism. More details would likely be necessary.

An act of bigotry? No doubt.

Clearly this is an act of overt bigotry. But words are important.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101693672

I just tried to reply to you and it wouldn't let me.

The lack of any other outward thing, such as a religious symbol worn by the man looking for matches, I am hard pressed to think of anything but racism.

For posting that!

until he was dead and dismembered, that wasn't real racism?

This was true racism, perpetrated by a racist.

Completely agree. Thank you

It doesn't mean the perpetrator has to be a member of the group in power, just that the perpetrator has to participate in the oppression of the group that lacks societal power.

And believed.
Thank you

That is exactly correct ... per 21st century social scientists.

By your standards, since skinhead gangs have no institutional power, they can not practice racism.

There's a wee flaw in your "logic".

still possesses "institutional power", when his/her acts support the institutional systems that oppress Black/Brown folks.

Skinheads do not have "institutional power". Their acts are not supported by "institutional systems".

Please show me which institutions support the skinheads and provide actual facts showing how and when they do so. (Note: a small town sheriff with KKK connections does not count as an "institution&quot .

tend to be white.

From Banking/finance to law enforcement/justice to education ... all had been built and continue to operate to benefit/not disadvantage white people, in general, but straight white males, in particular.

That a segment of that population chooses ignore that benefit/non-disadvantage does not mean it doesn't exist for them.

For skin heads all they have to do to fully benefit is: 1) Let their hair grow; and 2) wear different foot wear ... what they, largely, will not have to do is change their racist views.

Hogwash and bullpucky back atcha!!!!!!!!!!!

and if they grow their hair and cover/remove any tattoos, they are instantly way more easily hired than people of color. White men with criminal records have an easier time getting jobs than black men with clean records. Google it.

In fact, it equals just the opposite.

they get it for being white. I don't get institutional power for liking 80s music, but I get it for being white and wealthy. Being a skinhead is irrelevant.

Edited to add that I'm not personally a skinhead. LOL. I thought it looked ambiguous the way I wrote it. An 80s music-loving skinhead maybe.

These are people who endorse the process of systemic and institutional racial prejudice and discrimination. Not only is this manifested by self-hatred of one's own non-white existence, but is also reveled in hatred and discrimination against other racial minorities as well. You can see that in acts of racial hostility against blacks, as noted in the OP.

Minority police officers who engage in racial profiling against blacks are another example of this. These are coping mechanisms that are used to follow the path of least resistance. It's easier for people who internalize the self-hatred and endorsement of white privilege, patriarchy and class discrimination to serve these things than it is to take risks by defying it.

And every person in the plant itself was Hispanic. There were sometimes actual physical fights between those from Puerto Rico and those from Mexico simply because of where they were from.

The owner was a blatant racist.

like everyone else. Kenneth Clark's famous Doll Test used to argue against dejure segregation in the courts is a perfect example of this, where black kids were choosing white dolls as the smartest, prettiest, and morally upright in society. Many times, lighter-skinned blacks, other non-blacks (Hispanics, Asians, and other marginalized groups) are told that they are better than dark-skinned people of color/blacks. They, too, internalize self hatred and racism. Hence, the colorism that exists in Hispanic/Latino cultures and in South and East Asian cultures as well.

European colonization has pitted marginalized groups against each other. That's why we will see Hispanics pitted against blacks. But will also see intra-group discrimination as well, with white Cubans distancing themselves from darker-skinned Mexicans or Puerto Ricans, etc.

Think about all the girls that can't stand girls they perceive as prettier. If not the "can't stand" they feel jealous. The blue eyes against the brown eyes.

If we don't all acknowledge that we have a problem, talk about it, fight against it, we're doomed to continually repeat it.

I get what you're saying, but the further one is from the beauty standard, the more pronounced the self-hatred/internalized bigotry is. So for instance, in some East Asian countries, girls having "animae" surgery done to their eyes to remove the hood and make the eyes larger has become incredibly popular. Wearing blue contacts and dying the hair lighter and blonder gets closer to the European beauty standard. For many in the African diaspora, skin lightening or bleaching is very popular because there is hatred for dark skin, which is viewed as ugly. Hair straightening to remove the "kink" texture has been achieved already, so getting to the lighter skin is now the ideal. Denying anything black heritage has been the trend, especially in countries like Brazil where people deliberately marry people as light-skinned or white as possible so that their offspring won't be dark-skinned and/or have kinky hair. In this country, West Indies, as well as blacks who live in Europe, colorism is still an issue with skin bleaching and hair relaxers.

Again, while I understand that whites have their issues, it is not the same as people of color. Very different, since people of color, especially darker-skinned or people of African descent are most affected by European standards of beauty because they are furthest away from achieving that aesthetic. And most hated and vilified for it.

Absolutely no question that there's no comparison to racism. I didn't mean to minimize it.

The study just brought all that to mind. Sorry, I went off topic

the two greatest evils afflicting the human race are racism and misogyny. They've been with us since the first humans and have retarded the advance of civilization immeasurably. We have been making progress as of late, but the fact that we're still struggling with these two behaviors tells me that we're still a primitive species. Monkeys and lions are racist and misogynistic and so are we. We have a very long way to go 'til we rid ourselves of these utterly stupid and self-destructive traits and become a truly modern civilization. "We have become very clever, but not yet wise." Explorers from another world would find much to learn about us, but little, to nothing, to learn from us.

Although I think we have taken many steps backwards lately

some intellectual intelligence.

what is the difference between "true" racism and false racism? and this is being asked in a neutral please tell me tone.

"True racism" allows liberals to exclude liberals and allows for whites to be victims; whereas, "false racism" is anything that might include the practices/belief of white liberals (see: Privilege).

All that is required is that the actor's act be in support of, or supported by, that institutional power.

The owner's acts are racist because they reflect anti-black prejudice, which is an institutionalized, systematic phenomenon.

I knew it was just a matter of time before I stumbled over you.

He alienated the customer. He might have said, "I'm sorry sir, but we don't give out matches without a purchase," if that were indeed the store's policy. It is clear that is not what was going on.

As for harmless, imagine that man subject to that sort of thing repeatedly over his lifetime. It most certainly does harm, and it is racism.

especially if the man has been a customer previously.

I almost ran after the guy to tell him they did have matches and give him mine. But then I thought what would that accomplish? Maybe I should have. I didn't see him anywhere when I came out anyway.

Thanks for your response

To run after the other man might have instigated something you wouldn't have intended. You did the right thing by calling attention to the behavior of the one exhibiting it. I don't see how he could have felt good about himself after you doing so and hopefully next time he will remember your words and act differently.

And you're right about letting the guy know.

Thanks for your kind words

We are simply trying to get them to see that they don't even have to think about these things by virtue of their skin color. These events do not even cross their consciousness because they are not routinely affected by the constant reminder of their skin color or race. That's why the constant pleas to black folk to "get over it," and "stop being so sensitive" and "move on, it's not that bad," are really irritating and offensive. They are not black and are not subjected to the humiliation of having to go through these things day in and day out. If blacks are angry; if there is any truth to the stereotype of the "angry black male" or the "angry black female," should we not have very good reason to be?

being discriminated against because the color of my skin. I can't imagine what it must be like to have to deal with that

The people that are so blatantly racist but still pretend it's got nothing to do with race are the most despicable.

A few times I've seen unkind or racist acts and thought later what I could have/should have said. With age and maturity I've gotten to the point where I do react "in the moment" and it's always a good feeling. Here's a poem from childhood - corny, but true.

Little drops of water,
little grains of sand,
make the mighty ocean
and the beauteous land.

And the little moments,
humble though they may be,
make the mighty ages
of eternity.

Little deeds of kindness,
little words of love,
make our earth an Eden,
like the heaven above.

Little seeds of mercy
sown by youthful hands,
grow to bless the nations
far in heathen lands

I like it

"I don't do business with racists" is another possible response.

But with no vehicle, it would be a real hardship to never patronize that store. I know. Shame on me.

a whole, whereas the society that surrounds them and to whom they surrendered their land plays the victim.

Victimization is a disease with some folk.

What does that even mean in regard to the OP?

I liked your post

perhaps there was another reason not to give the man matches?........

But with the grin and lack of response to my comment, I highly doubt it. These are people I see almost daily. It's a predominantly white neighborhood. And usually, I am the only one in the store.

I appreciate the response

But the man may have a history of taking matches and not making a purchase.

It may have become a habit with several people.

A more honest answer would have been that they were free with purchase or charge a nominal free like five or ten cents otherwise.

But as I said, I have seen that man buy stuff before, at least once. And I have gotten matches without a purchase.

Point is taken. I don't disagree that there is the very slight possibility that it wasn't a racist act. Without a different or further response from the owner, don't believe it was anything else.

Is that you'll never really know if the things are happening to you are happening because of your own race, and those thoughts can never leave your mind.

I have a tiny little idea being female and bisexual. Have been told I shouldn't be allowed around children. But I can never come close to even imagining what it must be like to be a person of color.

Thanks for your response.

Only because the process of privilege is complex and multi-varied. One can retain certain privileges in one way but not in another.

Frankly, as a male, I can't conceive of all of the amelioration of conditions required by women, in order that they can get through a day without having to worry about being sexually assaulted, verbally or even physically harassed and potentially discriminated because of the fact that we all live in a patriarchal society.

As a male, I don't have to worry about it, or think about that stuff at all.

We all have our stuff. But I have never seen or heard such blatant, horrible things in regard to bigotry as I do against African Americans. Usually with women, it subtle and hushed.

No, I'm not going to the trouble of citing a particular source as it's well established knowledge and easy for any doubters to google for themselves if they doubt me. Although I do confess to the nerdy love of statistics. Even though I know what Mark Twain said: There are 3 kinds of lies: plain lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I don't know what that means. Short eyes?

It's not a familiar term in most 'polite' circles. My range of acquaintances has been rather far flung, and I was told it's a prison term for pedophiles. Self explanatory once you know the context.

That's my other nickname for Pig Boy, who's infamous for his Dominican Republic child abuse vacations.

Thanks for the explanation

Not gonna lie, though I understand what that means, I am a little lost as to the rest. But It's hard to follow the responses and what they're to on my phone.

Since I have agreed with and like everything else you have said, I probably agree now.

By the way, thanks for defending me. I appreciate that.

currently flaming out due to boycott pressure on sponsors. I'm unwilling to repeat his vile given name - not doing so gives me some sense of obliterating the POS - but I am willing to say one of his other monikers, Limpball.

Don't know how I know nothing about him but I don't. Thanks for taking the time to let me know.

Now I understand your reply.

Thanks again.

Last night. I woke up thinking about this and my one thought was, "DUH! I'm an idiot."

Major brain farther on my part. Thanks for your patience

is because of that doubt, Black folks will make any and every explanation for the things happening to us, before we label it racism/discrimination.

Racists will take advantage of that benefit of the doubt.

OK, not just unfortunately. It just plain sucks.

on the part of the clueless white folks.

You witnessed a racist act, posted about it in a non-hectoring manner, and essentially all of DU joined in to condemn what you saw and consider how to respond. This OP could be a model for constructive anti-racism threads.

Thank you!!

It made me cry. The things some have to put up with because the color of your skin.

Overt bigotry and racism have gotten worse over the past decade as Fox News and right-wing radio have made it more acceptable to voice those types of beliefs. At the same time as it's gotten more overt and worse, those making it worse have become more vocal about racism no longer existing; and they state the real problem is reverse-racism. That allows for the problem to get worse, because denying a problem's existence, doesn't allow for it to be addressed.

The only way to put the country back on the right track, is to confront the bigots/racists wherever they are encountered. Good job.

Thank you!

Rec

I think there's rarely anything one can say to a bigot that will change their thinking.

I think you have to hurt people like that in their pocketbooks. Perhaps giving their matches back and leaving the store without a purchase would have sent a bigger message than just shame on you?

I could have and should have done more.

I am not proud of the fact I don't have the commitment, or funds, to have made a bigger stance. But without a vehicle not shopping there would be more of a hardship than I can handle at the moment.

I also had it in my mind I would leave and give the guy the matches. But I couldn't find him.

But you're right. :-/

the small little incident is like a wife getting pushed around a little by her husband. It only becomes a big incident when he beats the living daylights out of her later. It all starts with the small little insignificant actions. Which is when people should be taught that this tiny little insignificant action is only hiding a world of putrid racism.

Ask your friends when do they think an action is actually racist. How far are they willing to allow racists go before they think it's unacceptable. And ask them if they would think it's so trivial if it happened to them and they found out about it.

You don't even have to be confrontational about it. draw them into a conversation. Tell them what you think is racist. Start a great conversation. This is what we all need to do. Engage your friends and family and go from there.

I am not one to shy away from letting my feelings be known with friends. I do wish I had thought of the spousal abuse comparison. I will use that the next time we speak.

Thanks for your response. I completely agree

I added a little more to my comment above. The part about having the beneficial conversations with the people you know.

And exactly what needs to be done. Thanks!

I hope you enjoy

If the man were a hardcore racist, you couldn't have beaten any sense into him. The fact that he responded with a sheepish grin showed that he has shame. If that had not been the case, he might have responded by citing the wisdom of Rush Limbaugh. You gave him something to consider.

Yes, it was racism. Still, there is no reason to think the shopkeeper would don a white hood, seek out the man who wanted matches and lynch him. The problem with too many white people is that they think of racism as the mayhem visited on people of color by night riders, but not as those little, quiet acts discrimination like the one in this story.

It's true, what you said. Which is why so many people get away with it.

Nice comments. Thank you

A person relayed an edited story that details a shop keeper denying another person something of value that they wanted for free. I did not ask if there was a history of this person asking or taking things of value for free, I did not stop to think of why a person running a business should have to give something for free to others that he paid for, I only saw the color of each of these persons skin and made my mind up about the character of the shopkeeper.
I was so incensed by my quick assessment that lacked any basis of critical thinking that I told him "shame on you". I couldn't be bothered to cancel my purchase or even take the time to ask the shopkeeper a few simple questions to clarify my one dimensional thinking. But I could run to DU and tell everyone about my good deed.
SHAME ON YOU.

take a breath.

And take a look in the mirror if you want to find someone jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

And oh! Welcome to DU and enjoy your stay

I like that

I am going to have to take some time to answer all your questions about my relationship with the store owner and anything else I may have happened to have seen there.

Hope you understand

You may have truly witnessed disturbing acts in the past and have plenty of reason to suspect the owner is a racist. I have been lurking for many years here because I love the links to articles. In the past I have seen a limited set of facts be extrapolated into conclusions that have no basis in fact. A lot of people will jump on the bandwagon to support the story because it fits there perceived view of the world. Please forgive my reaction that is not directed at you, but at the lack of details/critical thinking that is sometimes encouraged here.

That you came back to say that. Thank you.

You wouldn't expect McDonald's to give out ketchup packets to someone who hadn't bought something. Why should the shopkeeper give matches to someone who hadn't bought anything? Maybe that guy asks for matches every day. Maybe he's a nuisance who hangs around the shop all the time, without buying anything. Maybe he's asked for money in the past. There could be a hundred reasons to cut the guy off that have nothing to do with race.

But as I stated previously, with the response I received, I doubt it.

Nothing about that the guy indicated he was bothersome.

you'd mentioned that you, yourself, could get matches without buying them, no problem, while he turned away the other person. That did it for me, personally.

Asked for matches. I thought maybe they're out. But they weren't

A simple "that guy asks for matches every day..." would have done a bit better than the sheepish grin she received.

Enough, if that were the case, that's what he would have said.

<-tired of doing this

you have no clue, "lurker". Your facts are leading me to your 'victim' door. Yeah, enjoy your stay.

Something for free that shop owners often give out, and in fact did immediately afterward give out to a white person.

One kind of racism is doing mental gymnastics every time you hear about an instance of racism to try to explain it away as something else.

in answer to OP's/threads such as this. They have no clue and aren't looking for truth. They call themselves 'critical thinkers'............I say otherwise.