Good on ya and thanks!

First, until the baby is officially adopted the woman is not the birth mother. She is an expectant mother, and then she is the new mom. The baby being born is her baby--not yours. And she has every right to change her mind.

Second, if you are using an adoption agency, the chances that they will attempt to coerce the new mother, if they sense she is backing out, are somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 percent. The chances that they coerced her to begin with are also pretty high. This is a multi-billion dollar industry that only makes a profit if the adoption goes through. And agencies can be ruthless when trying to make certain an adoption doesn't fall apart.

Third, if you promise an open adoption, it would be wrong to back out after the papers were signed. The people who are most likely to get picked by a prospective birth mother are the ones who are most convincing that they want an open adoption. Sadly, the adoption often closes after the papers are signed and the birth mother has no recourse. The birth mother is then left with a broken heart, and devastated at the thought of never seeing her child again.

I understand that many people think of adoption as a noble institution. But there is a dark side to it....a very dark side.

What kind of a thing is that to say?

As for what kind of thing that is to say....it is a truthful thing to say.

Adoption agencies are often ruthless in their efforts to procure babies. Coerced adoptions are way too common in our society.

for that?

A modern link -- not something going back to the 50's - 70's?

Stevie, than you for this.

Last edited Mon Sep 1, 2014, 12:18 AM - Edit history (1)

You're welcome. And thank you for your story below. Too many people don't realize what often happens in these situations until it happens to them.

The Baby Camden story is ongoing, and the battle continues. Here is the latest update.

http://www.adoptionbirthmothers.com/no-justice-today-for-baby-camden/

This was not that many years ago. My daughter went to a place (supposedly to help pregnant girls) to find out if she was pregnant, she was only 16. They made her wait with some some song and dance and in the interim showed her disgusting movies with deformed fetuses, bleeding to death women, the whole nine. And all this w/o having a parent's permission. He's a wonderful, handsome, bright biracial kid as it turned out. They were adamant about wanting to place him with a lily white family just 10 miles from us. They took us to lunch (as if we had any appetite) and pressured us to no end - really hard core.

Thanks to mother nature, my daughter burst into tears on the way home and said she couldn't do it. Then I started crying, I was so thankful. I still am. Of course he never knew this and never will. I had promised to back her 100% with whatever decision she made. It was far too late for an abortion thankfully - she wouldn't anyway. Not against other's who would, just her belief. She had friends whose families literally piled the pregnant daughter's belongings on the front porch and said they never wanted to see the poor girls again.

I asked her why she didn't tell me as I had told her I would gladly get her pills and she said she didn't because they "make you fat."

Ignorant assholes - the place and the other parents. Jennifer aka Mimi

Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2020, 11:52 PM - Edit history (1)

who thinks that she is going to them for assistance. In reality, there is only one option that they advocate for: adoption. And they tell expectant mothers that they will help prepare them for motherhood, all the while planning to break them down and make them feel unworthy of parenting their own children.

I have a friend who sent her daughter to a place called the pregnancy resource center. She wanted to go with her, but after the first meeting they said that the young girl had to go by herself. The mother didn't understand that they do this so that the parents will not see what the place is getting ready to do to their daughter. They systematically broke this poor 19 year old girl down. The only reason she didn't agree to the adoption is because she couldn't trust the baby with a stranger.

Eventually a relative offered to adopt the baby when he heard there had been some talk of adoption. The girl agreed. She changed her mind after the baby was born. The moment she saw her daughter she was in love--she was a mom. Her grandparents were in love with their new granddaughter. But the pressure from the extended family was intense. The parents caved and told the girl she should follow through with her plan or they would all get kicked out of the family.

Under duress, and drugged on painkillers, the girl acquiesced. She regretted it within 24 hours. After a week of of watching their daughter cry day and night, the parents realized their mistake. The girl asked for her uncle for her baby back. She begged. The man said that he couldn't do that to his wife. The parents said they were getting a lawyer, to which the father's own brother responded: "this is going to get ugly."

According the law, this adoption was not coerced, because the PAPs never directly said anything to the mother. So the adoption couldn't be overturned. So the young mom lost her child and her life was completely ruined. The uncle, who she loved too much to hurt, then closed the adoption for over a year. Now she gets one annual visit, with the rest of the family completely shut out.

The girl's father no longer speaks to anyone in his family, including his parents, who were instrumental in driving the coerced adoption through. The birth mother and her siblings no longer speak to their grandparents, or their paternal aunts, uncles and cousins. The family has been shattered, probably beyond repair.

The only winners here are the adoptive parents, who got a child that they could not have gotten through ethical means. And of course, the lawyer, who made some money.

and so there isn't any financial incentive to make sure adoptions go through.

There are babies and children who need homes. While it is important to be cautious, and to check the background of the non-profit agency you're dealing with, people shouldn't be scared away from US adoptions because of the fears you've mentioned.

There are two adopted children in my extended family and in both cases it is the birth mother, not the adoptive parents, who have chosen to not have contact -- for now. Maybe the birth mothers will change their mind over time; and if they do, that will be fine. One of these adoptees was adopted through an organization whose mission is helping young women keep their babies, and the vast majority of them do so. But every year some decide on adoption, and they are given assistance with this decision. The other adoptee came into the family when her birth mother, an adult woman in her 30's, read an ad from the prospective parents in the newspaper. No pressure was involved in that situation, either.

There were bad practices in the past, especially in the 50's - 70's. But there is no longer the same kind of social pressure on girls to give up their babies, and it is the best personal choice for some.

And many non-profits still need to facilitate adoptions in order to stay open and keep the social workers employed. And then there are some that have an ideological bent, and believe that adoption is what is right for unmarried mothers.

Besides, a woman shouldn't be signing adoption papers when she is drugged on painkillers. Or 24 hours after giving birth when she is still in the hospital.

As for adoptions closing, regardless of what happened in your family, it is far too common for adoptive parents to close the adoption after the papers are signed, simply because they no longer want contact. And the birth mother has no legal recourse at that point.

And you haven't actually proved that any legal adoption agencies are for-profit, much less all of them.

Here are some examples of for-profit adoption agencies, one from the agency itself.

http://www.mljadoptions.com/blog/for-profit-versus-non-profit-adoption-agencies-whats-the-difference-20120405

http://familypreservation.blogspot.com/2011/05/for-profit-adoption-agency-raked-in-12.html

And here is some discussion of so-called non-profits.

http://www.adoptionbirthmothers.com/the-non-profit-adoption-agency-myth/

http://www.adoptionbirthmothers.com/adoption-industry-13-billion-in-profits/

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/nonprofit-adoption-agencies-often-profit-someone-o/nQfWR/

And then there are lawyers, who often act as de facto adoption agencies, and can be every bit as ruthless.

The first link is to a completely self-serving article by a for-profit agency.

But the obvious difference is that non-profits are not in the business to make profits based on how many adoptions they facilitate. There are no shareholders who benefit financially based on how many adoptions are completed.

My link was to demonstrate that they do, as you requested.

I would never seek to use them in order to make my points about so-called non-profits. I provided several links lower in the post that do just that. They are well worth reading, and I believe will provide new information to people who are skeptical that adoption agencies can behave in a ruthless and evil manner--and often do.

I have seen the other links before, and many of the "facts" they include aren't true, either.

Yes, there are no doubt some adoption agencies who should be drummed out of business. But it's wrong to smear them all, as you insist on doing.

The one my relative dealt with primarily helps young women keep their babies, by providing classes and financial and material support. There is no incentive for them to push them into giving their babies away, and only a small fraction of mothers make the adoption choice each year.

"And you haven't actually proved that any legal adoption agencies are for-profit, much less all of them."

So I provided you with proof.

It's great that your relative worked with an agency that primarily helps young women keep their babies. But I don't believe that most adoption agencies do that. The best evidence I have seen persuades me that their goal is to facilitate an adoption.

If only a small fraction of mothers make the adoption choice, then that tells me that when an agency tries to help a mother, and encourage her to parent, she usually will. When they set out to manipulate her, and tell her to be "selfless," their chances of getting an adoption go way up.

I think that the adoption industry is often diabolical. And I believe that coerced adoptions are incredibly common.

You told me about an agency that sounds good. But I believe that it is the exception, not the rule.

in care who need parents. The dark side for these children is that they are "too old" or "too sick" to be wanted by many.

Consider adopting through your local state - every state has some gorgeous, needy children who are just wishing and hoping for someone to be a parent - to provide, love, security, respect and belonging.

on them.

They want healthy newborns. The whiter the better. And yes, they do price babies based on race and ethnicity.

I would love for there to be reforms that return the emphasis to where it should be--providing a home to children in need. Right now it seems to be all about providing a child for needy prospective parents.

I don't plan to have children because I already had them. A boy and a girl who are now a man and woman. It's never easy to be a parent, and there are always worries. But there are also always joys and pride that come along with the angst and challenges. I hope I have left the world populated with two decent, productive citizens.

I'm not sure I entirely get your post: are you worried that having children might turn you into an "optimist"? And does that mean that you are reluctant to give up pessimism? I don't understand what having children (or not) has to do with that at all.

I think times are graver than when my parents decided to have children hence I asked whether folks are planning to have children not why did you decide to have children decades ago. I'd say making that decision 5 years ago isn't relevant since the world is getting (fill in the blank) at an increasingly rapid rate. And I'm not asking people who had children decades ago whether they would do so today; that's an equally irrelevant question.

with my second child. There were so many bad things happening that I wondered why I was bringing another child into the mess.


There has never been a way to predict what events might take place or how they will impact you or your family. The fact that you are thinking of such things now tell me that you would probably be a good parent.

who was a total surprise btw, I was terrified. I had my first two kids before 9/11 and after that wasn't planning on more kids, at least for a long time (I was young at the time). Then, an oops!

I was pregnant with my third during the run up (and start of) the Iraq war and was due right when the SARS outbreak started here in Canada. I wondered what the heck I was thinking, having another baby.

I got over it, and went on to have a fourth (also a big huge oops - I have a condition that is related to infertility and it took me forever to have my first 2 kids - both planned - but as I got older, I got MORE fertile, not less. After my 4th, I went on the pill, LOL.)

I'm acutely aware of how scary the world is now, and how having a large family impacts on the environment. But I wouldn't have it any other way. We do what we can to lessen our impact on the environment and we try to do good in the world. We are lucky to live in a great country and my kids have a good life. I do worry what their future will be like though.

...earned your screen name. Our older son is out of college and living on his own. Out younger one just started his senior year, and even tho he lives in a house with a washer and dryer, when he comes home, he brings a laundry bag that is almost as big as he is, and he is 6-1.

yep. And now that I work f/t and am a single parent, the weekends seem to be dedicated to laundry, LOL. My older teens do their own now though, so it's not so bad.

...I would not have dressers. I would just put 2 laundry baskets in each kid's room - one for clean, one for dirty. Take something out of the clean one to wear it, and when done, throw it in the dirty one. When the dirty basket is full, wash everything in it and start over. Things hardly ever got put in the drawers, so why bother with dressers?

I would also have designed a kitchen floor that slanted slightly toward the center, where there would be a drain, and water jets around the baseboards under the lower cupboards. After a meal with toddlers and preschoolers (and sometimes my husband), just turn on the water jets and rinse all the crumbs down the drain - hee, hee.

stolen presidential elections. If you like, you can say I earned my username through the school of hard knocks.

Sounds like you made a wonderful decision for yourself more than 2 decades ago!

...desire to be a father. While the above may sound cold-hearted, I'm not a cold-hearted person. I'm actually very warm and kind...just don't want kids.

And no marriage either. I put it out on front street when I start a serious relationship. Of course, you'll be surprised at how often that's not paid attention to. I was certainly surprised about three years into one when she thought I was joking all along, apparently.

Something happened (biologically???) to both women when they turned 28.

I don't really have an issue with people who change their mind. I have an issue when they assume you were going to change yours.

my first at 41 yrs old, I worry but I know she will have good guidance to help her along the way and to maybe turn things around. To be a part of the solution.

Before we got the courage to have our one and only at 37. Today we are sending her off to Costa Rica for a 3 month study abroad in sustainability. For us it worked out. Good luck whatever your decision!

My job as a parent will be to show them how to navigate this pessimistic world.

For society as a whole, I'm not optimistic. Our children will have to be more competitive to survive in this world, which I'm confident they will.

Too words that scare the crap out of me

This world is more dog-eat-dog than it's been in a long time. I pray that we, as parents, will start them off on the right foot.

with being less competitive I wouldn't be as freaked out. But it's not in our country's genetic make up and it will kill us and drive many others to their wits end.

someone have to learn to be competitive much less be the one to teach them.

And yes, I was certain the world was going to hell in a handbasket in my 20s. After all, my 20s were dominated by W's presidency.

but didn't want to assume. What's most interesting is that you mellowed over time, at least that's my take.

but more of a change in attitude as I finished transitioning to adulthood.

When you're a kid, stuff just happens. That still goes on when you're a teenager - school just progresses without any direction from you. And of course you're going to go to college, so you do. And then you graduate and of course you'll get a decent job.

And then that last one doesn't just happen. You suddenly have to start working to make stuff happen. However, nobody really talks about that enormous transition, or does any effort to make it a transition. Heck, even in college a large portion of your classes are chosen for you and advisers/professors/etc shove you forward.

As a result, there's a major shock when progress doesn't happen on its own. At first, it's easy to fall into the hell-in-a-handbasket response because up until that point progress has "just happened", at least from your perspective. You didn't realize just how much other people were working to make that progress happen.

Eventually you either fall into despair or you realize you need to be the one who makes progress happen.

A and was forced to learn that lesson in my early 20s. Took another decade or more to accept it. Good to hear from someone more well adjusted.

But a reason to not have children is that there are too many people on this planet already. Lowering our numbers would reduce the load on planetary resources and financial wherewithal.

Easy for me to say since I have 2 daughters but that's my advice to everyone, including my daughters.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

having an impact on the population and planet.

I have not given advice to my children not to have children, but I have told them that the population/environment problem is the main reason I will not mourn if I do not have grandchildren.

As much as I adore my daughters and as much as they adore me, I don't see a conflict with saying I wish I'd been more concerned with the future.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

So having only 2 still means you're causing the population to shrink.

and for me personally, having kids was the best decision I ever made. However, recently I've been feeling guilty about bringing them into a world that is literally melting. When they were babies I thought, "well, there have always been terrible things going on in the world ..." but global warming seems to be a whole 'nother terrifying ballgame.

The stakes really are much higher now. I mean, just in recent weeks we're hearing terms like "irreversible." 5 years ago, there was more hope.

It doesn't get much scarier than that to me especially given what the corporations are doing to the environment.

I have a son and daughter, and they are my little liberals.

I joke with them that the most devastating thing to Mom and Dad would be them becoming Republicans.

To stop acting like a Republican! When we were kids.

My husband is a huge liberal from a Republican family...he's a smart guy.

It worked.

He'd also threaten to drop us off at the White House. This was the Reagan years.

Always watched the news with my parents and my Mom never says a bad word about anyone, except Republicans.

She would yell at the tv, "He's such an idiot! I can't stand him!"

Hugs to Mom and Dad.

Too funny! I liked watching the news with them, though.

I was 10 when Reagan was elected...man my parents were soooo pissed about Iran-Contra....I morphed into punk rock girl in my teens then the whole Bitburg controversy came out, that pissed them off and my fave band The Ramones wrote a song about it.

No children from me.

Last edited Sun Aug 31, 2014, 03:36 PM - Edit history (1)

it does sound like your decision is to procreate. My buddy had this experience, as well. They wound up adopting. Easier said than done.

Since the time I was attempting to procreate, I discovered some disturbing genetic information about my family that makes it probably just as well that I was unable to have children.

Painful blessing?

Hearing that baby's heartbeat coming from inside me was a magical moment that I'll never forget, although it's forever bittersweet.

And yes, I do worry about the children who are being born. I worry that the planet will not even be capable of nurturing them, just as my body is unable to bring babies to term.

to have children at all let alone knowingly pass them along. I'm the first in my family to have learned this so I'm not implying that my parents were irresponsible. I'm capable of procreating, but by my mid-20s I had taken it off the table. I doubt I could have survived being born in, say, 1990. Very doubtful.

It wasn't even discovered until 2011 and she died in 2003.

I'm glad she didn't live to see it, actually. That's a hell of a thing for a parent to worry about.

and yet I completely understand.

At least in that you can be happy. An entire planet should bring more joy than a single child.

Because I've done enough introspection to know I wouldn't be a fit parent. Not due to any lack of responsibility, but because I just do not handle children very well.

Sure, over population, the state off the economy and of the environment means I didn't add to the problem, but I didn't have children because I didn't want to. I will be 50 in a few months and have no regrets about not having children. Some people have a hard time believing such unicorns exist - women who aren't interested in children - but here I am.

who had children when they were in their early 20s because they thought that's just what you do. They're great parents and love their children very much, but deep down they are unicorns.

'Unicorns' don't bow to the pressure and do what they really don't want to - especially when that means having a child that's not wanted. What makes women like me so unusual is a) not having children and b) admitting to not being particularly interested in them. Unfortunately, those who became parents because that's how the script reads are a dime a dozen - not unusual at all. Times are changing, and it's becoming easier for women to be who they want to be, not what society says they should be.

I was kind of surprised to hear a few of my friends I hadn't spoken to in 30 years tell me this when they were shocked to learn I had never married or had children. I chalked it up to a small sample, etc.. But I could not deny what you confirmed, I'll bet they're more common than most would expect because, you know, who would admit that if they could do it all over again, they wouldn't have had children. Not many.

Most who responded said if they could do it again, they would NOT have children.

are probably a rather homogenous population. Just speculation, of course.

nurtured us. But she knew she'd made a mistake.

It used to be there wasn't much of a decision to be made. It was just what you did. I recently overheard a woman in a restaurant talking about a time when they were going to the beach and her mother told her to finish her cereal. She didn't want to so her mother said, "Finish your cereal or I'll pour it over your head." And the woman laughingly said she didn't finish her cereal and her mother poured it over her head and she had to go to the beach like that.

I found that story really sad and wondered if the mother was someone who never should have had kids but at that time, there was no question that that's what you did soon after you got married.

they regret ever having a child (which I think, is not so good for the child). It's a personal decision but there are a lot of pressures to have them. That's what I would like to see change.

People who don't have children are still, even now, seen as odd and the common assumption is they don't like children. That's pretty unfair as those without kids can still appreciate them. So when you get together with other parents of kids, how about inviting some friend without kids? Right now, it seems to me the two groups don't overlap until much later when kids are out of the house, if then.

And the demand for grandkids has really GOT to go. That is an unfair thing to put on your kids. It is their decision.

It depends upon the child, of course, but in general I prefer not to be around a generic group of children. (My immune system is weak and I'm not be around babies and school-age kids due to the risk to my health as well.) Everyone is different, but as some felt pressured into having children, some still feel the pressure to say, "oh but I love kids!" whether they mean it or not.

is the blanket assumption that people who don't have kids don't like them or want to be around them. Especially single people are often treated like they couldn't possibly have a clue.

IMO people who have kids give non-child bearing people too MUCH room. This has to change if it will become more acceptable and commonplace for people to choose not to have kids. Sure it's easier for the two groups not to overlap, but usually that's out of expediency more than anything else.

I'm not in favor of anyone saying you love kids if you don't. There's a nice way to say "include me in anything where the kids are not involved, but I prefer not to be around them because (whatever) it exhausts me, or isn't healthy for me, or I'm not in tune with them..."--whatever the reason. Most parents will understand because they're not in love with the job every second either. I believe in the direct approach on this.

Just sayin--there's too much distance between breeders and non-breeders these days. A little more effort could be made. If and only if, it's wanted.

not sure I really have friends anymore, at times. I'm pretty isolated as they've all married and started families. I have to think of everything and make all the plans. But they still can't make it. They make no effort to find something for us to do. At least with the one guy I mentioned in the OP, his wife isn't interested in the genre of film we like, so rather than seeing a movie every month, we see one once a year.

it is isolating. Far from an episode of Friends.

But I have seen couples who don't let their kids become the sole focus of their lives and continue to try to connect with others. They don't isolate singles so much. Look for them, because your buddy's life is no longer his own.

Jeez I sound like Dear Abby don't I? Anyway just know that others share your perspective.

Besides, children would've scared the cats.

Always said I wouldn't have children, NOBODY believed me. "You'll change your mind." Still have the same mind, no kids, am too old for anybody to ask about my future because clearly the trip is all downhill from here. Luckily I didn't get asked about kids nearly as much as other women I know who in some cases couldn't have children. Painful for them when the subject came up. When asked about them I just made faces and said, "Ewwwwwww." Subject never came up again.

Some people do take it personally if you say you don't like children. Well, some species EAT youngsters of the same species when they come across them -- I think that is a little worse than disliking them. I wonder if men are told they're selfish for not wanting children? And when women say they want children because who will take care of them when they're old, I think to myself, "So you made a few people just in case?"

When most of us are poor, it truly does 'take a village' to raise a child. So I just help out with kids that already exist. The kids on the Cheyenne River Reservation, mostly. (Take link in sig if you feel like helping out the Okiciyap Pantry and Learning Annex with their 'back to school' needs.)

I don't like kids so never had 'em. With all we currently know about climate change, I'm baffled as to why people still breed.

I wonder how long global population growth will be sustainable

Not trying to be a jerk, but the post I responded to was extremely judgemental and rubbed me the wrong way. I support access to birth control which has been proven to reduce birth rates. The fact is, the US is nowhere near the top of the list of birth rate by country. The top ten countries are in Africa, so you are barking up the wrong tree.

Damn! I knew I was forgetting something on my to-do list.

Nothing demonstrates faith in the future like producing offspring. While it looks like the future is going to be very different from the present, getting from here to there will be quite an adventure.

In any case, there are simply no guarantees and that's been the case throughout our history. We live on a tough little planet and always have.

until my buddy got married. His attempt to transition from someone who thinks like me to someone who thinks like his wife is nothing short of astonishing. He couldn't talk or think like he used to anymore. The easiest thing was to avoid me lol

The total difference in genetics between any given human and any other given human is infinitesimal, so it doesn't really matter if 'my' genetics continue. There's nothing unique in my genes that's going to matter to the race as a whole.

Personally I reject the idea of raising a kid in some kind of soft cornered, pastel bubble. I definitely haven't done that, and I don't think it works to try. Kids are perceptive and understand a lot more than they let on sometimes.

...but not so much even before their teens.

If you talk to kids like they're people and have interesting ideas, you'll be surprised what they say. If you treat them like you expect them to be shallow and self-centered, you'll create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

but I believe the study.

In their book Breakpoint and Beyond, George Land and Beth Jarman describe a longitudinal study they conducted on 1,600 kindergarden children aged three to five. They gave them eight tests on divergent thinking and an astonishing 98 per cent of the children scored within the creative genius category.

Five years later, they re-tested the same children, now aged eight to 10 and only 32 per cent scored in the creative genius category. Five years later only 10 per cent of the children scored in this category. In tests of over 200,000 adults over 25, only two per cent scored enough to be classified as creative geniuses...


http://www.artof4elements.com/entry/35/divergent-thinking

...while taking no active role in their upbringing, relying on the odds of a sufficient survival rate among my offspring to propagate my genetic heritage into the future.



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They're now 50 and 48 years old and responsible adults with good careers and grown children of their own. But it wasn't an easy journey. The male child didn't have a steady job until he was in his late 20's and the female child had some relationship issues resulting in her moving back with us twice (once with 2 daughters).

But when my wife and I talk about it our biggest regret is that we didn't have more kids, so knowing what I now know, yeah, I'd procreate if I was in a position to do so.

Now that we are doing a little better, at 44 it is kind of an iffy prospect. My husband has a wonderful kid from a previous relationship and I enjoy being in his life. We've been together for 17 years and kid was 8 when I first met him. That didn't blunt my political views though, if anything, they got more sharp.

When growing up I didn't like other children, never wanted children, never played with dolls, and watched with horror as an aunt pumped out kids (or miscarriages) every eighteen months for ten or fifteen years solid. Add to that the period I was growing up - the late 1960s. You think things look bad - then we were sure there was going to be a nuclear war. Some of my college friends were making plans to move to New Zealand as the most likely place to survive longest.

Now that I am too old (and have had the necessary equipment removed) I'm glad I didn't have children. I ms temperamentally unsuited to be a parent as is my husband. And I am glad we did not add to the population that is overloading the planet. Our sisters did enough of that!

and so have they (two of them, anyway).

We would both like four. Not each, hahaha...

Two boys and two girls close in age is our ideal.

It's a completely insane theory and practice and doesn't work the way it should. They can't watch any movies above a G rating (yes G, so no Marvel movies), doesn't swear of any kind, the only music they can listen to is Kidz Bop, and so on. You just can't do that in real life, it doesn't work that way.

Children cost money but at the same time I can't imagine a life where I didn't have any.

I'm pretty OK with it. I never found the right guy or even had I, might not have trusted that I could support a family. I still have a big family and am the aunt who has time to help out, without my own kids to attend to. Though I can't say I was motivated by the situation on Earth or the environment, but maybe I'll take credit anyway.

I think that people are insane to even consider having children in the US in this day in age. I have no faith that things will have any prayer of turning around and in fact can see the US has becoming the 21st Century version of Nazi Germany. There will be a time when the masses will serve as either canon fodder for the US Military or serfs for the Corporate Overlords. Any chance of a positive future is not within the US and will need to found elsewhere in the world.

by having children of their own. My first, a grand-daughter, is a beautiful, bright child. My daughter gave birth to twins just a month ago. Couldn't be happier. Not having children because of fear of the future is the worst possible decision. Much like giving in to fear of terrorism. I'm not buying. If no-one procreates because world events are ominous, we're left with something along the lines of the movie "The Road"...what's left of a dispirited population will wander dismal paths in sorrow.
I intend to revel in the beauty and innocence of youth!

I've always loved people and kids in particular. I'm an optimist. I think the world has gotten much better over the last few centuries and I think it will continue to improve. I hope that my kids are part of what makes it better.

I'm not sure what you mean by having a "Disneyfied" world view. I definitely have an optimistic world view. I try to instill that optimism and love of humanity in my children.

now he tells me that "Ratatoulie" was actually are really good movie.

We have our one and only child who is a high school junior this year.

Lots of things went into our decision not to have a second child.

We are content that we made the appropriate decisions...

...I'm happy to lavish them with attention as long as, at the end of the day, they go home with someone else.

With respect to the underlying question, I assume we'll muddle through life like mankind has been doing for the past 5,000 years. No Disney animatronics required.

I was pregnant with the first on 9/11/01 and wondered why I was bringing a child into this world, but I just keep on keeping on. My kids are pure joy.

and debated whether it was a good idea in light of being in our 30s at the time (and 9/11). I think it's a good thing to have something to think about other than yourself (which could also happen with adoption or even rescuing pets). It makes me a bit more optimistic for the future when I interact with them and their friends.

runaway hormones got the better of us in the "Summer of Love." At least we only had one and are still together, fwiw. Actually it's worth A LOT!