General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsdiscussionist is a misogynist pit hole - vulgar language
This is what feminists are dealing with here
http://www.discussionist.com/?com=profile&uid=100295
See here for what it states in case he changes it and for some back ground. This shouldn't be happening.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=49985
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I wish I could say that a DU discussion of it could somehow make it better, but I don't have much hope for that.
Nobody should have to put up with what passes on DU, and Discussionist seems to be a troll playground.
I wish I could offer solutions, but have none.
OTOH, I don't see that sending them traffic is going to help.
Sorry for the mixup.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Why don't you click the links. It will become quite clear to you. And you just might be as appalled and disgusted as I am.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Why promote it with links?
You have to admit, we have more than a fair share of idiots here.
Here's my POV: I think politics and electing progressives and eliminating crappy Dems is our number one mission. Discussions about domestic violence, gun control, etc., are all important, too, but every Joule of energy we spend fighting one another on these and other issues is a Joule of energy the could have gone to get rid of McConnell, Boehner, and the rest.
DU has groups and forums for guns and other matters. I care about our building a better society, misogyny and bigotry are issues, big issues, no doubt, but there are times that I think they become distractions and actually work against our common interests.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Owned by skinner, earlg and elad ?
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,636 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Skinner wrote in an ATA response something to the effect of what I wrote above.
I could be wrong but think it was partly designed to distract hate speech away from DU3, I could be wrong, and if I can find that comment, I'll send a link.
My point, let them keep it, let them go be all the fools they want to be there, management there is different than here, I don't see how it helps the cause to bring their shit back here, if you know what I mean.
TIA
boston bean
(36,221 posts)There are misogynist here. Many of those posting there have accounts here, and this one in particular does.
They are openly strategizing the trolling of feminists here. Did you bother to read the links?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I made an account when it was started, and forgot my personal info.
But, upon reading your reply here I hit the second link in your OP to BanesBain's post and that link worked.
So, I see that there is a kind of stalking thing going on and I'm sorry for that.
It's a lot like reading posts at Old Elm Tree or the Cave.
Sorry to see this, boston bean, and I edited my original reply to you.
No suggestions on what might make it better, and no doubt that there are some, or many, misogynist members active on the boards.
BobbyBoring
(1,965 posts)I guess that shows how important discussionest is to us.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)They get banned , they re- register. That wannabe rapist has an account here . And probably votes on juries .
whathehell
(29,067 posts)or is it only misogyny that needs to be 'heard'
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)"Misogyny is the last acceptable bigotry of the Left".
Katha Pollitt
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)think about it a little bit and you might be happier.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)*sigh*
...though I suspect that so exactly what the Admins will say. Disappointing.
MerryBlooms
(11,770 posts)when you logged in to DU during May 2014.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Pathetic.
JaydenD
(294 posts)hahah.
I think I know.
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)That is amazing. He is gone for a while and I doubt that he will be welcomed back
I have a high tolerance for stupidity and bigotry and I enjoy using facts against the conservatives
dsc
(52,162 posts)one has to register for an account to read your discussionist link. It may not work even then for all I know since I didn't register.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)dsc
(52,162 posts)and it was pretty vile.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)This person still posts on du, they say, and at one time were banned from here.
This is not something feminists here are making up. Hopefully, we can put that meme to a rest.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Profile information
Real name: Cunt McFuckface
Gender: Female
Hometown: Your Mom's Nigger Pussy
Home country: Your Mom's Wetback asshole
Current location: Up your cunt, fucking spic cunt
About The Doctor
All you fuckfaces can suck on a bag of dicks, choke on the semen, and get your holes stretched into gaping holes, you fucking cunt fuckfaces. Fuck all y'all. You all deserve to be raped in the ass, especially the DU HoFers. Fucking cunts. And I'm still on DU, you fuckfaces. And I'll be back on DI shortly!~
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Favorite category: Politics, 297 posts in the last 90 days (43% of total posts)
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All you fuckfaces can suck on a bag of dicks, choke on the semen, and get your holes stretched into gaping holes, you fucking cunt fuckfaces. Fuck all y'all.
dsc
(52,162 posts)frankly I found his posts vile enough I had no idea what his profile was.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)Raine1967
(11,589 posts)and I don't believe that nastiness out to be brought here.
If that sight can't get rid of trolls that is that the problem of the website --
ETA: this was nothing against you CyberSwede. I know why you did this.
I just do not believe we should have to discuss that sight as though it were an extension of DU.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Read the links. Don't blame the people they are attacking.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)That site and this one are different things. I don't go there.
I also do not go there to bring it's crap here.
Much like you will never see me bring FR shit here.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)You might not feel that closing your eyes was an adequate solution. What if he acts on those threats?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)assholes. He doesn't have to provide the place for that to happen but he chooses to do so. Just as he chooses to ignore most of the misogyny on DU as well.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)..a misogynist "playground"?...WTF?
Hey, why give all the fun to the women haters?
How about a racist playground?...Maybe a homophobe playground?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)There's really no incentive for the admins to go after trolls who generate lots of thread-clicks then - Except perhaps in the case of one who goes so over-the-top apoplectic as this jackass did.
This is the same reason why on DU, calling out bigots is a greater sin than actually being one.
Hong Kong Cavalier
(4,573 posts)But I hear all we need is "more conversation" with them, not less.
Or something.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)And an obvious troll.
Why feed these creatures?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)is true.
That its not something in our heads. Please read through the hof link. They are openly organizing their misogynist attacks. And many of them have accounts here.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Like the previous poster said, why feed them? Our AA and Jewish members don't spend their days reading and posting excerpts from Stormfront. What purpose is served by reading those threads and reposting them in the HoF?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)It illustrates exactly what I stated. That is the point.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)but day after day? You are getting something from subjecting yourself and the rest of the HoF to those posts.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)The account exists.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)toilet like the rest of the internet. I am suggesting that those who find it offensive should do the same.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)ozone_man
(4,825 posts)I'm talking about the admins. Why create it for that matter?
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)That is a vile and disgusting beyond juvenile and downright childish display of one angry person.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)...his FCC license revoked. Oh, wait ....
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)be some kind of legal recourse available about communicating threats via the internet. I would take out charges in a heartbeat if someone communicated that kind of nastiness to me or used my website to spout that shit.
vile nasty asshole.
fucking evil sick fucker.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Because you contact the FCC if threats are communicated via the phone lines.
What about snail mail? Isn't that also the FCC ... ?
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)As far as Internet threats go, I believe it's the FBI that has jurisdiction.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/cyber
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Members of the public can report violations of U.S. federal law or suspected terrorism or criminal activity as follows:
Contact us online
Use our Online Tips and Public Leads form
Report a cyber scam or threat by filing a complaint with our Internet Crime Complaint Center
Contact us via telephone or mail
Contact your local FBI office or closest international office
Call 1-800-CALLFBI (225-5324) for the Major Case Contact Center
Call (866) 720-5721 to report fraud, waste, and abuse involving disaster relief to the National Center for Disaster Fraud or write to NCDF, Baton Rouge, LA 70821-4909.
Vetted members of law enforcement can report cyber or terrorist incidents through eGuardian on the Law Enforcement Enterprise Portal (LEEP). Access is restricted to authorized users.
FBI Industry Partners
Trusted industry partners are able to submit information on cyber, criminal, and terrorist incidents through iGuardian via a secure portal.
more at link: http://www.fbi.gov/report-threats-and-crime
Thank you.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And even Discussionist couldn't put up with him.
There are, to be truthful, a slight few HoFers that I've dealt with, who aren't exactly always decent themselves.
But this guy.....saying that people deserve to be raped? That is simply beyond the pale, no matter if he was doing it for "teh lulz" or out of serious misogynistic hatred.....no matter the target.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)XemaSab
(60,212 posts)n/t
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)To be truthful, however, I think you may have missed my point. Here, I even said this at another post.....
For all the problems we may have at this site.....even with that, I know for a fact that we are definitely still better behaved than the other place, by a long shot(even our most far-out denizens can't really come close to matching the worst & wackiest of Discussionist).
So I'm not sure we really disagree too much on this, honestly speaking.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)Now why would someone do that....? Hmmm.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)Do you have an example of a HoF member with a vile profile like that?
Veilex
(1,555 posts)"There are, to be truthful, a slight few HoFers that I've dealt with, who aren't exactly always decent themselves" He's had negative encounters with people in both Discussionist and HoF. Considering the topics being discussed, that's not exactly a leap of logic.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)Because it's a huge and laughable* leap of logic to tie a vile profile like that with some people you disagree with just to be disruptive.
*laughable as in cynical of the absurdity.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I said a that a few people weren't exactly always decent(BTW, this is coming from personal experience. Nothing concrete, but it IS true.); but I sure as hell didn't say, or imply, they were anywhere like that guy. I even pointed out as much.
I hate to say it, but your reading comprehension seems a bit off, to be truthful.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)and I and others have just pointed out those obvious observations about this and various other things that you say on a continuous basis by referencing HoF in everything you type. Unless you can show a related profile of a HoF member that underscores you bringing up HoF in a proper context similar to this vile profile, then your comment about HoF, to be truthful, is just meant to start a flame war because, to be truthful, it wasn't truthful. Obviously.
To be honest, you seem to have a lot of people not understanding what you write and, to be honest, it seems you like it that way.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)As frustrating as that actually gets, I've actually had to resign myself into accepting that some people just aren't going to understand, whether they're genuinely confused, or they're so wrapped up in their assumptions that they can't bother to take a look outside of their bubble, etc.
I'm afraid it's kinda obvious that you just don't get it. And I don't mean that to be nasty, I really don't. Nothing else I can really say.....
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)Going around and accusing people of being as vile as that banned poster was is the epitome of not getting it. Just STOP following people on this message board and injecting your own obsession with HoF into everything written here. Unless you can show that there is a connection to the vile profile and HoF members then you are intentionally, to be honest, not being honest.
Just STOP.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)OR you're wrong! You're wondering why people can't see what you see when you are unwilling or unable to consider what anyone else sees! YOU don't get it.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)I think you will enjoy this:
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Using the thread to derail with digs at HOF? You think some HOFers are unpleasant and that a rape threat is also unpleasant.
Your foolishness has sunk to the level of performance art.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I honestly cannot believe you'd ever stoop so low, C.D.; I've seen some pretty fucked up shit from your end, but this takes the cake.
Here, before you make any more stupid comments, I happened by BainsBane's thread regarding on a recent experience of hers.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5472573
There was real compassion in that comment, C.D. You may not care for me personally, but you could at least try to acknowledge that piece of decency.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)On Mon Sep 1, 2014, 08:33 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
You're concern trolling a rape threat. That's beneath contempt.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5472679
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
"Concern trolling", CreekDog? Look who's talking! You're practically the living epitome of a concern troll on this site. Get a fucking clue, and your head out of your ass, or don't.
Either way, your hypocrisy is TRULY astounding, and it's about time someone stood up to you.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Sep 1, 2014, 08:49 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I was going to remove it but found the comments by the alerter much, much worse than the post itself. You people really need to grow up.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter's comment is far more of an offensive and hide-worthy personal call-out than the post he/she alerted on!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I saw nothing wrong with the post but the alerter is using the alert system to call CreekDog out. If the post gets a hide then CreekDog gets to see that nasty little alert message. No thanks.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not going to read the thread in context. The abuse in the alert itself is beyond what even the alerted post might be construed as. I'd hide the alert.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Alerted on this abusive alerter.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)So please, either get a clue or STFU.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)There are posters here who diminish feminism on DU and I think it makes DU suck. BTW, telling me to "shut the fuck up"? Have fun with that.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Seriously, this kind of jackassery is what makes the DU experience suck, and thanks to that little display, you just came damn close to earning a spot on my ignore list.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Nothing would make me happier than being on another bigoted climate change denialists ignore list. Nothing.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)kcr
(15,317 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I suspect that the Alerter and the one CD called a concern troll are one in the same.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)betsuni
(25,537 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)How many rape threats have you seen in HOF.
Your post is so bad, it's trolling.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)betsuni
(25,537 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)by spamming them with videos. Putting you on ignore will improve things greatly. It's not like you're adding anything - just a weird stalking.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)one_voice
(20,043 posts)but this is ridiculous.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5473798 12:20 pm
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5473798 11:31 am
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5473224 10:14 am
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5473076 9:25 am
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5473056 9:09 am
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5472846 7:18 am
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5472837 7:13 am
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5472812 6:53 am
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5472771 6:10 am
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025471222#post293 12:46 pm
Some might consider it stalking....
If it was done to them.
polly7
(20,582 posts)And strange.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)It's just a bit stalky and weird. As their response to someone objecting to the thread being spammed was 'who cares', I hope someone alerts on the spamming if it continues....
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)There. Now you can get over it.
Yeah, that screams troll.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)He builds up to a point and then goes off on feminists.
I think it is when he thinks he is going to be banned.
He is here.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)Mental help is probably in order.
3catwoman3
(24,007 posts)...12? (My apologies to 12 yr olds.)
Number23
(24,544 posts)I can't read the Discussionist link in the OP
tblue37
(65,403 posts)post on DU as well? And if they can tell who he is on DU, then that sort of language should be enough to get him PPR'd on DU as a misogynist troll of the worst sort.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)I wish you'd self delete that. It should be erased from DI too.
There's no more need to read that than there is to walk by a pile of dog doodoo and stop and take a little taste of it.
Yes we know, there are hateful, nasty people in the world, and yes, you can run into them on this and other message boards.
Consider it a point made and do not help to spread hateful and vile words.
"Teacher, there are things, I don't want to learn."
cui bono
(19,926 posts)DU has more than enough misogyny for me.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)and that profile looks like the rantings of a very disturbed individual.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)They are trolling du feminists and organizing over there.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)or something. Because HoF teh ebil obsessed harpies.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I've had a few problems with a very small number of HoFers myself, pretty much all of them clustered into a single clique.
But rape threats are unacceptable, no matter the target.....at least we can agree on that?
betsuni
(25,537 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Don't think of those DUers as HoFfers. Think of them as GDers.
JaydenD
(294 posts)with smiles and gentle whispers and adoring gazes at their student and just ignore the threats and name calling. It's all in good faith, man!
SfromCanada
(44 posts)He's just "socially awkward."
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)in general and those attacks regularly come from self professed DUers and it's been like that since it's inception. I don't know how anyone goes there without feeling seriously creeped out,it's hideous.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)except for the repeat troll(s), who is (are) banned almost instantly (around 30 times, by my count).
boston bean
(36,221 posts)If your not one to experience it, I can see how you might believe what you do.
Veilex
(1,555 posts)I sure as heck hope so.
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)'Education'.
I have ..... it didn't kill me.
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)Nothing to discuss actually. They have their own personal facts. You are being kind of dismissive there, I see.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Really. How so? I confronted them on some extremely sickening crap. We're always told here how we just need educating. A progressive board where most of us, women, anyway ... have been through more than many of the keyboard warriors telling us how stupid, and misogynistic and obviously brainwashed we are. Called rape-enablers, laughed at when those same educators call us sexist terms, dogs, lol .....and on and on. Who is being dismissive here??? If you can't 'educate' those who actually NEED it, you're really not interested in challenging the status quo, are you? Many of us have done more to battle sexism and deal with its victims in real life than the 'educators' have probably even considered.
If you believe in something ............ do something to change it, and not just for people who already agree the injustice exists and needs to end. It seems simple.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Is there any way to start over?
polly7
(20,582 posts)certain 'sisters' who bow down to authority and believe in only one brand of feminism. I've watched the horrific treatment doled out to 'non-conformists', and it not only saddens me, it disgusts me. I also am sickened at the thought of being 'educated' by those who call me and others who've lived through things that should have killed us the most ugliest of names. But you keep on being 'sad' over it, I'm fine with being disgusted.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them (wise words from my beloved grandmother)
Aaaand, my hand is sore again so typing is crap.
I care equally for ALL humans, not just those deemed worthwhile to fight for in the mean girls club. Alert on that.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)or start new. I think we probably have many of the same goals.
But this would take all to start new. I am willing to.
polly7
(20,582 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)But I suspect that things that were said and done long ago could be let go and possibly start new. There is a lot of water that has gone under the bridge on both sides..
From nearly three years ago, we are holding grudges. I want to move forward.
polly7
(20,582 posts)It's every second day.
Take this stupidest of stupid subthread from just yesterday. This is the kind of thing I hate seeing - people trying to discuss something in good faith having it trolled to the point it's all just a jumble of meaningless crap. making shit up, accusing people of things never said, turned into some huge flame-fest that's honest-to-god baffling for anyone except the one wanting to stir it up.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5467039
And that's not even counting the 'dog' calling, rape-apologist, pedophile-enabler, women who need a 'pat on the head' for self-worth crap that's posted ALL the time in your group among all the other insulting, hateful stuff.
Accusing good people of horrible things, without taking even a minute to stop, think,try to understand and comment back with even a modicum of respect. There is NO respect for anyone even slightly disagreeing, and it's always, and expectedly met with pushback. None of us own this board, and yet some .... who dare to offer an altering opinion are treated like dirt, while the tables are ALWAYS turned to make the instigator the victim. It's junior high shit on steroids. But it seems to work well for some.
Maybe a little more tolerance for those who do have minds of their own but don't express themselves inthe way your group deems the 'only way' and a bit less outright hatred and hostility might go a long way to healing ........... until then, you get exactly what you give (your group).
treestar
(82,383 posts)you were the first one to get hostile.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I told my story, as did others, of horrible domestic violence and of two instances of rape - one so violent I was in hospital with broken bones for weeks. We were since called rape-enablers ( by the same people who knew of and read our stories - without support or comment, of course, because we stood up to the bullying by this group created because they couldn't get rid of a host who disagreed with the support of transphobia that existed in the original). 'Dogs', 'pedophile-enablers', called sexist terms that would have had men ppr'd here, and laughed at when we objected, 'women who just need pats on the head to validate our existence',etc.etc. Not to mention demanding an apology for horrible abuse of a woman they made physically and emotionally ill. Not so bad for someone who supports that kind of thing - I hope you're proud about that. I'd be ashamed,myself.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and was limited to that.
Now you're on the paid shill thing.
You're the really hostile one here.
You are claiming to be a real life victim of domestic violence yet arguing against feminist points on the message board? And when you were called this terrible thing like enabler what was the issue?
The feminists here are not that confrontative as people threatening them on Discussionist are.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)While I didn't see the posts polly's referring to, I can't think of anything sicker and more abusive than someone calling a person they know is a rape victim a rape-enabler. That behaviour, which is emotional abuse, should result in a nuke.
polly7
(20,582 posts)And yeah,that was pretty sick alright.
Some are soooooo pissed because certain survivors of DV and rape here refuse to play victim for the rest of our lives and push all the hate we feel for the ones deserving it onto the majority, who would no more hurt a woman than anyone else. in fact they've been MUCH kinder. And hey treestar,that's WHY I and other women were called some of those names - anger at sticking up for good people who've never even hinted at anything but respect for women. That doesn't play as well here for some and their attempts to divide and demean anyone who doesn't bow down to them. Get it? Good.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Just in case they didn't, this is for them:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5472754
I'm also getting annoyed at the posts in this sub-thread that have told you yr angry and hostile. Suddenly that 'tone' argument that I see used regularly doesn't apply when it comes to other women and feminists? btw, I'm going to PM you something. I'd rather not post it as I suspect it'll have the Voldermort effect, and I'd rather not take the risk
polly7
(20,582 posts)of difference to me what they think. I am fucking angry, and yes, hostile to insensitive, lying assholes - more-so for the other good women here they've hurt and laughed at, made to feel like crap and yet turned it all around to them being the big bad bogeymen while the ones doing it revel in playing victim. But, that's what they enjoy most of all. When someone dares to tell their own story - we're expressing 'victimhood', it's warped. As are those who support it. 'Sisters!' indeed!
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Sums it up perfectly.
Response to boston bean (Reply #122)
A-Schwarzenegger This message was self-deleted by its author.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Live through it, then get accused of being part of instigating and enabling it. Good try, indeed.
Response to polly7 (Reply #153)
A-Schwarzenegger This message was self-deleted by its author.
polly7
(20,582 posts)hurting.
But......... as long as you feelgood about it,that's what counts,eh?
Response to polly7 (Reply #156)
A-Schwarzenegger This message was self-deleted by its author.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I've taken more shit and watched others being hurt beyond words for so long I really couldn't care less if I 'reconciled'with a group able and willing to treat people like crap at all. It's like making up to an abuser who's made you feel like a nothing who's actually deserved what you got. You want to be best buds with some group like that - go for it. I got sick of the bullying,mean girl shit in junior high. I'm so over it, it's not even something I worry about. But I sure won't back down when I see it happen again,and again and again. So you be nice and forgiving, I have someone who I care deeply about that just a few months ago was demanded of an apology for her own abuse! Screw that noise. Lecture those who did it .............. hint - it wasn't me.
Response to polly7 (Reply #170)
A-Schwarzenegger This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to polly7 (Reply #170)
Post removed
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Look at these threads on women's rights and tell me what's wrong with them, because I'm not seeing the problem...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11384631
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383797
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383796
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383677
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383671
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383617
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383581
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383563
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383514
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383509
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383485
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383484
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383473
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383436
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383431
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383424
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383386
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383379
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383367
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383276
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383225
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383215
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383179
There's heaps more, but I think you get the idea
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Another member of the club I'm supposed to be grateful for for the offer of an olive branch.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and victimhood. What's wrong with an olive branch. Not taking it makes a person look a certain way.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Am I on some kind of get-rid of list in your group?
treestar
(82,383 posts)and how paranoid can you get with that comment?
I respond to things as the spirit moves me. I'm not allowed to respond more than once to any given poster?
polly7
(20,582 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)I also don't keep quiet about abuse. Here, or anywhere else. Are you the type of person who believes only some women deserve to be free of it? Or that certain women who don't tow the bully line 'deserve it'? I've heard and been on the receiving end of that ugly implication many times. Sorry, but that olive branch has thorns an inch long. A bit of honesty, admittance and genuine acceptance for how hurtful and triggering that all was for many women .........not just me, would go a long way,but so far .......... it's still all our fault,and the instigators of this shit are the victims. The biggest, most convincing thing for me would be an apology to the person who was bullied, harassed and hounded for weeks, had her private info stolen to pass around and dismiss her as incapable because she stood up for people who couldn't, and yet just months ago blamed for it and even demanded an apology for 'making' it happen. Typical abuser behaviour. THAT would be showing at least a tiny bit of good faith. But it won't happen here, ever. Nothing changes. And .......... who really gives a * what you think about what I and others have been through and were dissed about on this board or any other? Not me!!!
treestar
(82,383 posts)I've never seen any feminist here assert that any women deserves abuse. That's an outlandish claim.
polly7
(20,582 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)I think your giddy accusations of 'victimhood' to any woman who's been in a DV situation and raped and nearly killed is one of the most sickening things I've ever read. There were women here who had it much worse than me, on the thread they talked about it, they were mocked. So, take your 'victimhood' crap and .... you know what to do with it.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I don't know what your deal is tonight, I really don't. But enough of the false accusations. Enough of the bullying, etc. STOP.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)This is just a public note of thanks for your efforts in this sub-thread.
I want to thank you, and msanthrope, and sabrina1, and Gothmog, and Ms. Toad, and Violet_Crumble, and Cleita for making the arguments that the plumbing with which I was born prohibits me from making.
Thank you.
-Laelth
polly7
(20,582 posts)In all honesty ......... I just got angry! lol. And my hand is messed up so I really didn't do a very good job,it's tiring - but I'd like to thank all of those women too who've seen it and aren't afraid to speak out. Sincerely, thank you for your support. This stuff just gets crazy.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Personally, I'm a little afraid to speak out. There are a number of people here who would like to see me banned from this site permanently. As such, there are certain things I can not say--because I value my membership here, and I would like to continue to be a contributing member of this community.
You, on the other hand, have much more courage. And you rock!
-Laelth
polly7
(20,582 posts)I can't imagine why anyone would want you gone, I would miss your posts a lot - there are many people here I've learned so much from and you're one of them. Being banned by juries for disagreeing never seemed this bad before, sometimes I wonder just what is making it so bad. Please don't ever leave!
That's probably the nicest thing that anyone has ever said to me on DU.
Thanks. You made my day.
-Laelth
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)If you truly want to move forward with polly7, then my suggestion is that you draw a very clear, bright line as to what is acceptable woman-to-woman critique, and enforce it in the group where you are the primary moderator.
Frankly, the posts in question---ones where polly7 has pointed out that some women were likened to dogs, and rape-enablers--by other women who are still welcomed in HoF, remain a stain. Your rather long list of banned persons puts paid to the idea that you don't have control over anyone----because you sure as shit can ban who you like from HoF.
You've banned people from HoF for making far less inflammatory remarks than this---
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4120434
And you've banned people from HoF for making remarks you didn't like outside of HoF.
Response to msanthrope (Reply #335)
polly7 This message was self-deleted by its author.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)she was a victim of rape. THAT was disgusting. I give her credit for not leaving a site where that stood without challenge frankly. The compassion was not there for her, a rape victim, not even any attempt to show compassion.
There was no outrage, just a personal attack. Sure taught me where not to speak about anything personal, had I thought of doing so.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)In graphic detail, as the links in the OP demonstrate.
Polly, provide links for those allegations. If you have been insulted so many times, it should not be difficult to provide proof. You have never provided proof when I have asked you to do so in the past, yet you continue to make allegations you cannot substantiate.
Is your contention that feminist's who disagree with you are worse than a man on Discussionist who threatens to rape and kill women? You see the OP, yet you choose to attack those same women. Is that what you consider "doing something"?
It does not appear to me that your statement about caring for all humans is true. If that were the case, you would not turn around and attack women in a threat that is about threats against their lives. Do you realize that we are human beings? Is disagreeing with you so terrible that threats to us do not matter?
I would not in a million years respond to rape threats against you or any human being on this planet as you have here. I can't begin to imagine how it's possible to think like you do. Can you really think our lives are worth so little just because we don't hold the same views you do?
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Sun Aug 31, 2014, 10:55 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Dismissive???
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5471754
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This person sees women on DU have been threatened with rape, and her response is to attack those same women. She makes a series of baseless allegations for which she consistently refuses to provide proof. That she does so in defense of a site where a man has just threatened three DUers by name with rape is OTT. What kind of person thinks this way? How can this be considered acceptable behavior?
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Aug 31, 2014, 11:00 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alert should have been a response post, not an alert.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh, please. An alert on a troll GD thread about what someone said on something called "discussionist?" And, after almost 200 inane replies that keep the inane thread going, in GD no less, this ONE post is deemed somehow "disruptive" of the "decorum" of the thread? Oh my! Where are my pearls for I must clutch them!!11!!
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is nothing in the post itself that merits being censored - which would throw the person out of the thread and prevent any dialog.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Preach it
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Gothmog
(145,321 posts)I love using facts against the idiot conservatives. They can not deal with facts
polly7
(20,582 posts)educated.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Many indoctrinaire conservatives simply will not listen to ANY facts that contradict their worldview.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)For all the problems we may have at this site, with our local SJWs, hardcore radfems, hardcore anti-Israel people, etc.(and, mind you, this is coming from a feminist supportive of genuine Social Justice goals who does criticize the Israeli government for it's own wrongs!) occasionally running amuck.....even with that, I know for a fact that we are definitely still better behaved than the other place, by a long shot(even our most far-out denizens can't really come close to matching the worst & wackiest of Discussionist).
Because we, as a whole, are decent, respectful people who do try to get along. We don't tolerate or accept racism, misogyny, etc.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)posts before he was banned (for threatening someone with rape via PMif I recall).He claims he has an account here,although I think he's lying about that.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)Doncha know he has the truth. Like religious zealots who listen to no reason. Yes, it's frustrating as hell. Its like talking to someone with their fingers in their ears.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)Why one would feel that way. If you are really an ally you wouldn't be dissing hot and feminists and aa's.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Furthermore, you should know quite clearly by now that I have never attacked (or ever would attack) feminists(considering that I'm one myself, too!), or AA's as a whole. Don't you think I would have been booted from this site by now, if that was true?
Feel free to continue this via DU Mail if you'd like, but I can't afford to spend that much more time on this in the public sphere.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Apparently not.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)I just love "Serenade for Strings"!
Response to cyberswede (Reply #97)
A-Schwarzenegger This message was self-deleted by its author.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)Salami and Jack cheese on White -- many people like to add a little TBH sauce as well. A "radfem" is a large radish, like a daikon but not as thick.
I take it you feel they either don't exist on this site, or that they're not a problem?
Lancero
(3,003 posts)ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Hardcore radfems are ruining DU! Who knew!
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Aug 31, 2014, 11:08 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: He didn't say that. Really, he didn't. If anything will ruin DU, it's far more likely kneejerk alerts will do it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: He wasn't calling anyone out, or saying that one specific group was ruining DU, he was just pointing out a couple groups that do have some supporters who take a rather extreme stance on the subject since both are currently being widely discussed in GD.
So, really, I don't see anything wrong with his post.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Give it a break........... not bannable in my opinion.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerting over something like this is idiotic. Making up paranoid reasons, even worse!
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: this guy is a TROLL!!!! please admins! ban his concerned ass
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
MerryBlooms
(11,770 posts)3rdwaydem
(277 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)That site is owned by the same owners of this site, and many of them have accts here. And they openly strategize trolling du feminists at du.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)It really sucks when trolls strategize off site for the purpose of trolling here, doesn't it?
polly7
(20,582 posts)But the names are so obscure.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)The idiot has now password protected the site.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I guess they forget it was memorialized here with quotes, even, months ago. Just a tad late for all of us who knew what was going on long ago.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Not to mention the strategising to try to get DUers nuked and to help their nuked troll friends get back onto DU and disrupt yet again..
Here's the GD thread that polly's talking about below...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024787933
btw, since the OP brought Discussionist over here, rather than create a whole new OP about something said over there and fill GD with even more OPs about somewhere else that gets talked about as though it's here, I thought I'd just plonk it here and be unassuming. The timing of this post I saw and the very belated password protecting of that other forum was interesting...
http://www.discussionist.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=36767
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)It explains fully in context what happened -- something that is left out from "your side" for fairly obvious reasons.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I'd love to hear what context yr aware of from back then, long before you joined DU, that I wasn't aware of. Or do you just blindly believe everything you read in that post? Me, I saw bits that were true and I can vouch for, and bits that weren't true, as well as being incredibly dismissive and nasty towards feminists at DU who didn't follow the rigid version of feminism that Iverglas did.
While yr at it, how about you fill me in on what you think 'my side' is or was. This should be interesting...
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)Nice try. But that post on the Discussionist website that you linked to discounts all the emotional pablum that is used to spam threads here trying to disparage certain posters.
These posters are followed around over and over and over again and the same emotional knashing of teeth is brought up by the same people, which makes the site unreadable. You don't have to be here very long to see the obvious stalking...
Now iverglas has put it all into place for me and satisfied a curiousity I've had for a while. BTW, your little dealio with quinnox here kind of reduces your, let's just say, your "objectivity" to the point where I wouldn't consider you very credible. And that post you linked to from DI confirmed that, as well.
Again, thanks for the link.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)So I'll ignore the white noise and try it again. You joined DU long after the stuff Iverglas is talking about in her post. It appears you've taken it all as solid gold truth, but I was here when it all went down, and I know there's stuff in there she said that's true and other stuff that isn't. That's not to say she's lying. I know she believes every word she says. While I agree with her on most other issues, the way she dismisses feminists who don't adhere to her rigid view of feminism as not being feminists is a stance I find incredibly divisive and wrong.
I'll ask again. What did you find so compelling in her post? All of it? Maybe not the bits where she dismissed some really good DU feminists as not really being feminists? See, the thing is me and many other DUers read what was posted at that duckies board, and there was transphobia there. The timing of the very belated password protecting of it and that post was interesting, and that's all I was pointing out when you swooped on me...
I'm not on any side, btw. But I'd still like to know what 'side' you think I was, or am on. I doubt I'll get any sort of civil response, let alone an answer to the question, but I figure it's always worth a try....
p.s. there's one bit of white noise that stuck out as being totally off. What's with the 'little delio' crap? That reeks of not knowing what the hell happened, and not caring one iota what actually did happen. Not a good look on yr part....
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
treestar
(82,383 posts)Maybe some talk about a DUer or two.
Veilex
(1,555 posts)end up making Feminists here inadvertently more hostile to supporters... I hate false flag crap.
What "false flag crap"?
Veilex
(1,555 posts)If that doesn't clarify it, then I will not be able to assist you.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)put their pathetic asses on ignore
chervilant
(8,267 posts)And, quite a few of them!
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)I am not easily offended, and I use some vile language at times, but that post scares me....and I am not one of the posters who he/she would be after.
I suppose that it is a good idea to keep the criminally insane out of DU and over there.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 1, 2014, 05:47 AM - Edit history (1)
What has me really uneasy is, if he's like that on the Internet, who knows if he might be an extreme asshole in real life, too? Unfortunately, some people are just like that. Look at that asshole "War Machine", who knocked up his girlfriend, or some of the various hardcore MRA blogs out there(Heartiste, RooshV, DalRock, and others).....
On edit: BTW, I didn't mean "knock up" as in got her pregnant.....I meant, as in, he beat the fucking crap outta her.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)You cannot have that much anger over a discussion board, and not be easy to set off. But I do think that most people are freer to vocalize the hate that they have online. This much rage, and this poster will be in prison if they are willing to act on it.
tblue37
(65,403 posts)What he did was beat her half to death.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Hope the authorities find and catch that P.O.S.
tblue37
(65,403 posts)about that situation would have been misled by your phrasing into thinking he had just got her pregnant, and would wonder why that was anything like what that jerk's profile was saying.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Whatever the case, what he did to her was just plain fucking wrong. And I do hope the bastard gets a LONG prison sentence for what he did.
tblue37
(65,403 posts)post as is. Otherwise this little exchange of ours will make us sound like gibberish spouting goofballs, heh, heh, heh.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)They openly strategize trolling du feminists at that site.
I don't know who he is now, but he was the now banned vashta nerada .
No Vested Interest
(5,167 posts)the first week after it started.
And it was nowhere near as bad as what is shown above.
This is not why I come to blogs and forums.
I guess it takes all kinds, but I don't need to hang around filth.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)Not sure why skinner and crew haven't taken it down. There's some bad shit happening over there, and the jury system reinforces it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)psychopathic bigots and wannabe rapists.
that's what having no objective standards achieves--a race to the bottom
they don't even ban for rape threats there. creating a sock is considered a much more serious offense.
that certainly does not reflect my values, we obviously disagree.
I certainly would never dismiss concerns over rape threats by breezily telling a woman "don't read it" but as we have seen some people tend to blame women who speak out while of course never speaking out against such stuff themselves.
JaydenD
(294 posts)until it's a ghost town. I would recommend any decent person just not go there at all and let the toilet ring scum there play by themselves.
FSogol
(45,488 posts)seaglass
(8,173 posts)money - no principles or ethics involved. They are businesses.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)tblue37
(65,403 posts)Triana
(22,666 posts)don't appeal to me and we get enough of it on DU. They exist to harrass women. It's sport to them. See Elliott Roger and PUA/MRA rhetoric.
GP6971
(31,168 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)Ours are quite bad enough. I think of Discussionist as a troll preserve where those who want to tease the wildlife are allowed to do so.
applegrove
(118,684 posts)any intelligent, thoughtful discussion. Good information is the enemy of the right.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)if you don't like it, don't go there.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)And them strategizing trolling you here on du, isn't it.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)they don't like on the internet,the problem is women speaking out about it.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)No, I didn't. The point I'm making is that as much as we might like to, we can't control everything everywhere on the Internet.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Don't like it don't go there implies we should dismiss it. One does not have to spend a lot of time there but can realize what's going on there.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I don't know how Skinner, et al can possibly eliminate all the trolls.
How can they possibly?
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Texasgal
(17,045 posts)It's just a barrel of laughs isn't it.
JaydenD
(294 posts)not adhering to that saying: Physician, heal thyself.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)go figure.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Agree.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Your post should probably be alerted, and you PPR'd for saying that a 13-year DUer is "very similar" to that poster. But I realize these group hand-wringing and sob sessions and vanity posts are crucial to the well-being of the HoF, so I will leave it.
But I am going to bookmark this baby, and if you ever again accuse me or any other long time DUers of being rapists, I will make it my business to get you suspended.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 1, 2014, 04:58 PM - Edit history (1)
Reading is fundamental.
Of course I did no such thing. Look up the word "attitude" (specifically of the hostile variety) after you bookmark, kay?
Please point out where I accused you of being a "rapist."
I've been here for a damn minute myself, partner. Your hostile threats don't faze me in the least.
treestar
(82,383 posts)but even so there have been misogynists here.
edbermac
(15,941 posts)I alerted on the doctor but a few people were ahead of me in that line. Some racist Ferguson posters were bounced as well.
And 7.62fullmetaljacket is now appropriately "in a world of shit"
Laffy Kat
(16,383 posts)Never been there and never will.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)He didn't even try hard to disguise it either.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)he created a sock.
How reassuring. And he's here too. Wonderful.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Do we know or is he undercover? Surely the admins can trace his IP from Discussionist and see if it matches a logged IP at DU.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)And he states he is here. I tend to believe him.
Leith
(7,809 posts)I'm City Kitty. I was hoping for a good dialog with conservatives, but it has been pretty disappointing so far.
It has become much worse in the past week or two: deliberate trolling, thread hijacking, blatant insults, crap like that. The worst part is what they call "jury swarming." That's where reichwingers vote to hide or leave alone based on one's politics, NOT the post in question. If a liberal made the post, they vote to hide. If one of the gang made the post, they vote to leave it alone, no matter how vile it is.
Yes, there have been complaints about the slanted jury system. I started a thread in help because of a comment made by another juror about an alerted post. None of the mods acknowledged my thread at all - and that isn't the only time. The only defense is to make a jury blacklist: 5 posters that you don't want to be on a jury voting on your post. I have not seen an announcement about it and I found it quite by chance. Needless to say, I filled my list with a hope that it would take more names (it won't, dangit).
On the good side, there is a smaller number of posters over there and I remember names better (hi, Miss Quay and Gr8Days and several more!) better than I can over here. Some names I recognize from DU (like Mr Scorpio).
So far, this experiment is careening towards failure. The mods desperately need to rein in some of the trolls and frankly bad posters. They also need to communicate with us more. A thread or two per week can't be too much to ask.
I don't blame DUers for avoiding Discussionist. I've been on no-holds-barred message boards before and idiots are nothing new. Discussionist is different because of how reichwingers gang up on anyone who doesn't agree with them and cheer on their nastiness.
The whole tone here is much better.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)And if you go there and find things that are offensive, don't bring them here. That is kind of the point of having a separate site - it is separate.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)But we have, unfortunately, had a few problems with these guys coming here and attacking us, as I've heard. It may not be a widespread problem yet, but I don't think it would hurt for these concerns to be addressed, that's for sure.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)to prevent those guys from coming over here - any more than we could prevent members from the conservative cave, or free republic, or the old elm tree, ad nauseum from coming here and attacking us.
The only ones who can take any action are the admins - so a general thread in DU doesn't address the concerns any more than a general thread in GD bemoaning any of the other perpetual trolls who come here and attack us.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)All that can be done is what EarlG did - ban it at the first available sign. And to those who are so offended - don't go there, and if that's not enough of a protest, stop your contributions to the owners. If the post is actually a credible call to violence, or if you actually feel threatened, report it to the proper authorities.
Though why you'd want to give the boot to an OET poster I can't fathom. Liberals should be welcomed here. But that's a different thread.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Easy to say this when you aren't the target. Thanks for the support.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)making just as vile threats of rape and murder. That troll was banned, repeatedly, here - as was the troll over there threatening rape. And every single one of his posts threatening rape was hidden 7-0. Clearly the board over there, as a whole, does not support rape threats.
The acts of an individual troll there no more represents the site as a whole than do the acts of an individual troll over here. When individuals over there make threats, take it to the admins over there - just as you should take individual threats over here to admins over here.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)I'm sorry, but your response was hurtful. Really wasn't something that I expected from you.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 2, 2014, 01:29 AM - Edit history (1)
The rape threats you were complaining about were the actions of a hateful individual, of which there are many on the internet including both on discussionist and here on DU. In response to that vile hatred, Discussionist members (1) unanimously hid the posts and (2) the admins banned the poster. In other words, the actions that can be attributed to Discussionist in response to the misogyny were exactly what should have happened.
But instead of acknowledging that discussionist responded appropriately to extreme misogyny, you dragged the individual troll's actions over here to slam discussionist and attributed to discussionist the actions that were universally condemned by discussionist members and admins. That is the equivalent of blasting DU because the death threat guy signs up repeatedly and occasionally manages to post even more vile stuff here before being sent back into oblivion.
The threats shouldn't have been made. They were vile and unacceptable - and unquestionably mysogynistic. But they are the actions of an individual troll, not discussionist - and discussionist responded appropriately and unanimously.
I happen to think that it is important to have places where conversations across the political spectrum can take place. Discussionist is not perfect - it was bound to attract trolls from both sides who like stirring sh*t, and it has. But there are also some good conversations which happen there. I expect there will be more -and I get pretty fed up with people who clearly aren't interested in those conversations posting a thread a day or so here slamming the effort.
If discussionist had not responded appropriately, I would still think you should address it on discussionist - not here. But I would have been more sympathetic - it was slamming discussionists (as one more in a never ending series of threads slamming discussionist) for the vile actions of a troll to which discussionist responded appropriately that bothered me.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)LeftOfWest
(482 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)BainsBane, Boston Bean, and a fair number of other DUers (self included) have been consistently pointing out the increase in sexism and misogyny on DU. The DI trolls are the ones who've "brought" this particular issue to DU. Those of us discussing it here should not be met with derision. Please stop.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)when Discussionist was created.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)I have been speaking out about it for a very long time. It is not the discussionist trolls who have brought the issue to DU. It is, unfortunately, a homegrown, and one the admins here have consistently refused to acknowledge or address. If you plow back through ATA from well more than a year ago, you will find more than one rather heated conversation between me and Skinner on the matter, in which he denied the existence of a problem and then ultimately stopped responding.
But as to the source, go find the most vocal misogynists and take a look at the DU enrollment date of the worst offenders. Virtually all, if not all, of them predate the creation of discussionist.
Beyond that, if you believe individual trolls from discussionist are bringing the issue to DU, identify them to the admins and ask them to ban them from DU. They said early on that that would be the one potential exception to the separation between the two sites.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10133832#post20
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Well said.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)EarlG
(21,949 posts)I saw a vile misogynist get booted from a discussion forum in the space of four posts, with only 36 minutes elapsing between the first post being posted and the last one getting hidden.
The first post was made at 6:21 PM, the fourth 6:31 PM. The four posts were alerted between 6:24 PM and 6:35 PM, with the last Jury concluding at 6:57 PM.
All four Juries voted 7-0 to HIDE -- in other words, the troll was shut down 28-0. Due to an earlier hide, this rendered him suspended and unable to post.
To recap: on a Sunday evening, on a holiday weekend, on a discussion forum with no ideological boundaries, no moderators, and not even any real rules to speak of regarding conduct, a misogynist troll was ejected in 36 minutes, by the unanimous consent of 28 randomly-selected members.
How is that a failure of the system? How is it a bad thing that a discussion forum with an exceedingly diverse membership just unanimously removed a misogynist from their community without needing rules to tell them what to do or moderators to do it for them?
And why are you continuing to give this dope publicity? He had a previous hide, he was suspended, at which point the only thing he could do was scrawl all over his profile page like it was a bathroom wall. And then, like all trolls, he created a sock-puppet account and was perma-banned. This most recent incarnation of his is well and truly toast, and it happened in short order.
In order to even read that crap he wrote, you have to jump through the following hoops:
1. Go to a different website
2. Create an account at that website
3. Log in to the website
4. Click on the member's profile page
Except, not any more because for some reason it is now also posted over here on DU as well.
Thanks for that.
By the way his (short-lived) DU sock was banned earlier today.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Deal with the issue of persons stalking and strategizing the trolling of feminists from the home base that is called discussionist.
There's plenty of evidence over there in the open for you to determine that it is the case and it is indeed happening.
Secondly, what was the reason for that posters ban? Was it for rape threats in his profile of HoF members here? Was it for misogyny?
No, it was for creating a sock.
So, what would I like? I would like to see misogyny taken seriously by the admins here at a DU, and make this a place where women can post without this crap.
EarlG
(21,949 posts)It wasn't here until you did that, was it?
The reason for the poster's ban on Discussionist: yes, it for was creating a sock, and that's because there are pretty much only two ways to get perma-banned from Discussionist: spamming, or creating a sock. Other than that, the membership decides who can and can't post there via the Jury system.
As for the issue of persons stalking and strategizing the trolling of feminists: well, this dude did it and got caught and he was banned from DU. Unfortunately he'll probably do it again. If you want me to preemptively stop him from doing it again, you're pretty much asking me to solve the global trolling crisis.
The old advice about not feeding trolls is still the best advice. This thread being exhibit A of doing the exact opposite.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)They post here. It wasn't just this one that got caught being a sock tonight who was obviously very much a true misogynist. We've been graced with his presence for years. And there are others. You really think they just stay over there.
You want women to just ignore rape threats?
When are you folks going to please listen to many of your members at DU that there is a problem here.
Some effort of at least trying to understand the issue instead of avoiding or not believing it exists. That type of response makes it very difficult for feminists to post on this board. It makes it feel even more hostile, when the persons who own the site won't even acknowledge there is a problem.
You can't possibly blame persons, other than those doing it. This issue needs sunshine and disinfectant, it doesn't need to be ingored like it doesn't exist.
You folks do have the power to make it a bit better. It wasn't always this bad.
ETA, I can't believe you are making me out to be the bogeyman for posting this here. It is something that affected me personally and it was about my participation on DU. Like my posting was a worse offense than the actual rape threats. That is how your responses are making me feel.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Trolls thrive on being fed and reacting to them is giving them exactly what they want. So dragging stuff from another forum over to DU and giving that troll a massive dose of attention is doing the exact opposite of what people should do. EarlG's right. The juries at discussionist behaved in a way that no-one should be attacking them for and unanimously voted to hide every single one of those posts and show that troll the door. And when admin saw it, they banned the troll. I'm not sure how they're supposed to have reacted differently, nor why they're being attacked for it.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)That troll must be immensely pleased with himself right now.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that is not considered a bannable offense there.
he was banned for the much more grave offense of creating a sock puppet.
if a site does not ban for rape threats, people will feel empowered to do so.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)EarlG said it's only spamming and sock-puppets that lead to a permanent ban. I'm not sure that such a hands off approach will work all that well, but it's their site and I'm not going to tell them how to run it. If I don't like it, I don't participate. Yahoo message boards were way less moderated even than that, and I gave up on them coz I was sick of the ugly shit I was seeing regularly. And I gave up on Discussionist coz I was seeing a lot of bigotry and racism and folk that had been nuked at DU that I really couldn't be bothered with. So, if all this had happened at DU, I'd see a reason for the OP being posted in GD. But this isn't Discussionist, it didn't happen here, and dragging it over and then talking about the problem being here is wrong, imo...
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Big yellow promotional link to Discussionist on every single page at DU for anyone who is unregistered.
DU ownership has consciously decided to bind the two sites together, to treat them as affiliates.
So, yes, having a shotgun marriage between DU and a rightwing hate site is perfectly redressable to this site's ownership, as it creates issues here.
They could just ban discussion of DU and DU posters over there, but that wouldn't fit the libertarian model being employed there.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I've seen a fair few hate-sites in the past, and the common theme is their purpose is to promote hate. The only thing being promoted in this case is a political site open to the Left and Right that's got juries, but doesn't have MIRT or hosts. It worked fine today from what I can see. A misogynistic troll was shown the door by successive juries, and then was given the red card by the admin. Of course, no-ones asked EarlG the question I was wondering to myself, which is what would have happened if the troll had stopped its rampage before five posts were hidden. Because I'm kind of suspecting that they would at that point have nuked their first one for something other than the two reasons they always nuke people. But no-one's asked, so we'll never know...
boston bean
(36,221 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)or, what would have happened after three months?
free to unleash another volley of rape threats?
I think "don't feed the trolls" goes out the window when people start feeling unsafe. Also something of a troubling dynamic when it's men telling women to STFU and ignore it. Indicates a possible lack of empathy and understanding.
There is no website where everyone can feel equally welcome. It's a matter of deciding who gets made to feel unwelcome.
at some point trolling rises to the level of harassment, threatening, and gaslighting. Barrage women with his toxic garbage, and eventually the women will snap and say something, heaven forbid, uncivil or strongly worded, then the woman is the problem.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)There's been a few times he's slipped past MIRT and PM'd death threats to DUers and even at times posted them. And he's nuked as a repeat disruptor. I don't think that makes DU a hate site where everyone should feel uncomfortable, anymore than it makes Discussionist a hate site where women are unwelcome. I'm a woman and I don't feel unwelcome here or at Discussionist. There's a few people here I refuse to engage with because they as individuals have made things unpleasant for me, and I suspect if I hung out longer at Discussionist, the same would happen there, but I've never felt unsafe either here or at Discussionist. I've felt like my brain's going to start oozing out my ears at some of the crap I read, but that's about it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Notice that the only people talking about feminism are seething misogynists and MRAs.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I can't imagine they could survive without posts about feminism. But I've posted on quite a few forums where no-one discussed feminism. I figure that just like at DU, people at Discussionist will talk about it if they want to and not talk about it if they don't want to. If you gave me a choice between talking about feminism, the I/P conflict, or making a list of the 20 greatest albums of the 90's, the latter would win by a mile, closely followed by I/P, with feminism a distant third...
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)are pretty rare, and in most cases deeply compromised.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I don't think DU's deeply compromised at all. Sometimes it annoys me, and at times it's bored me. Most of the time I'm fine with it, though. During the annoyed or bored times, I've wandered off and always returned. With Discussionist, I know a few good DUers who post over there, and I ventured back there today to have a look round. I figured if people are going to start threads about it here in GD, I may as well cut out the middle man and go have a look for myself
boston bean
(36,221 posts)allowing members of another site they own, to stalk, harass, disrupt feminist members of this site out in open threads. They allow misogynistic comments and commentary intended to feed into more stalking of a certain group here where plans are laid out.
I'm not telling you to go over there. I don't usually go over there. But you can choose to believe what I am telling you is the truth.
So, when you say it is not happening here. Well, it may not be happening to you personally here at DU, but it is here and it is affecting a group here at DU. Via members there with accounts here setting their plans in motion to harass and stalk feminists at this site.
Yeah, the admin here can do something about that.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)but sadly it is in keeping with your posting history.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)That's quite an operation you've got going over there,you must be so proud.
EarlG
(21,949 posts)The community had already booted him before I got there.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Was that automated?
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)spamming, or creating a sock. If the community decides rape threats are OK if they're directed at someone enough of your community doesn't care for,then the rape threat stands?
thucythucy
(8,069 posts)you wouldn't have banned him for threatening to rape a member of DU?
Honestly?
thucythucy
(8,069 posts)would you have banned him for making rape threats, if "the community hadn't already booted him"?
It's a pretty simple question, and shouldn't take all that long to answer.
JaydenD
(294 posts)What did you do to deserve this - you must have done something, what were you wearing? Why did you bring it here? If you didn't say anything all would be better for everyone. All said with that pinch of contempt and anger toward the one reporting A Crime.
Overwhelmed with a sickening feeling on how these things are handled here. Where is all this good faith stuff we all keep hearing about?
Number23
(24,544 posts)better than just about anything I could have ever hoped to type.
I am sitting here with my mouth hanging open. Though why I'm surprised is the real question.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)You know what? No need to feed the trolls when they have a DU admin-sanctioned place to troll so long as they don't sock up.
You're better than this, EarlG.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)It doesn't appear so.
I am disgusted by the derisive, belittling responses I'm seeing.
I've been here for a decade now, and I've only recently begun limiting my time on DU because of the marked increase in sexism and misogyny--and the BRUTAL FACT that the admins look the other way.
This guy was beyond the pale, so I'm not surprised that he got banned. However, there are many, many more here and at DI who couch their misogyny in weasel posts, trying to be clever enough to avoid a hide or a time-out. And, there are some who try to goad certain feminists into posting something that might get hidden. Why does this not warrant a change in the TOS?!?
I'll never understand that.
I continue to read n2doc, SCE, xchrome, and a handful of others (hi, Paul), but I don't recommend this forum, and I don't participate as much anymore.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Are you saying that The Doctor would have been allowed back after 90 days if he had not created a sock account?
If this is the case then it seems the site policy is that each person is allowed five rape threats every 90 days, maybe a few more if some of them withstand the jury system. After a person makes those five rape threats they need to take a short break, but as long as they don't make any sock accounts during that break they are welcome to come back and make more rape threats later.
If this is truly Disscussionist's policy then I think you really need to reconsider what kind of a site you are running.
kickitup
(355 posts)You wanted that site to get attention . . . well it has. I went over there last night after reading through all of this and they are "cray-cray" with their obsession in regard to DU, admitting in the open that they are gaming the system here and celebrating the fact that they took down RedQueen.
You don't get to invite everyone over there and then blame others when they discover and share how it is. I'm glad Boston Bean brought this out into the light. I hope everybody sees what pieces of shit get to post over there and how THEY ARE plotting and celebrating stirring the pot here at DU.
So you have taken the time to comment on this thread. Perhaps you should take the time to go comment over there and give them your sage advice about dragging crap from one forum to the other. But those are guys, so I'll wait . . . and wait.
Response to kickitup (Reply #259)
Post removed
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)If participants think nasty stuff should be allowed, it is allowed. If they chose to not allow it, they will hide it.
It is an interesting experiment and makes me wonder if I should participate more and try to clean it up, or ignore it.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)appalling. And I'm embarrassed for you.
I'm not going to say more, but it's rather telling that you admit, point blank, that you won't ban someone for threatening rape or violence.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)n/t
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)Sorry EarlG, that is about the saddest thing I have ever seen on DU.
I hope you are able to step back and see this through fresh eyes.
Hong Kong Cavalier
(4,573 posts)n/t
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)got banned again for the same crap under a different screen name, is probably back again because he's clearly obsessed, and he was able to sign up for a forum with an overlapping userbase under the first screen name.
Where he started issuing rape threats to your long term users in good standing. Again.
No, your system doesn't work.
edit: Did you see what he was posting about sea? If somebody was posting that about you, or one of your loved ones, would you feel secure and happy and that your community was taking good care of you? Come on, you're better than that.
EarlG
(21,949 posts)Guess what... he's probably been banned more times than that. And I can guarantee that he'll be banned again in the future.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)You didn't even ban the guy for threatening to ass rape an entire DU group. Because that's not a banworthy offense but having a sock is.
Let me repeat: specific and graphic rape threats directed at specific customers of your business are not a ban worthy offense. Starting a second account is.
Now tell me how your women customers are supposed to feel about that?
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)JaydenD
(294 posts)He seems angry at bb, how utterly disgusting.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)This post nails it.
seaglass
(8,173 posts)Heddi
(18,312 posts)/MOTHERS/SISTERS< then suddenly rape threats *would* be a bannable offense.
But not for us. Because we probably deserved it. Or something.
Plus, they were banned. What more do you want? Uppity fucking women
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)I know you're proud of your system, but no system is good enough to justify not saying the simple words above.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Horribly silent on this issue.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)was a staging ground to plan attacks and strategize about juries and harass feminists here at DU, and rape threats upon an entire group of DU members, of which I host.
I'm getting drained here. I just can't believe it. I'm to blame and I just need to ignore.
I just can't ignore sorry. If that becomes an official rule, I won't be around for long. Think about it, the solution is to ignore..... I can't and I won't ignore it.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)I think anyone getting threatened should call the police. You admins aren't really equipped to deal with rape threats other than take appropriate measures on the internet, which obviously don't extend to real life if indeed the threats are serious.
The technological solution was, in any case and as you mentioned, handled by the Discussionist community.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)is that there was a broader climate of behavior leading to this. It was clear from the beginning of Discussionist that the Doctor was Vashta, the person who had previously made rape threats to a member of DU, and who hqw repeatedly expressed his hatred for women over these several months. He did not simply emerge today as a hateful misogynist. The problem, I believe, is that there is a climate in which hatred for women and especially feminists breeds. Discussionist has openly been used as a staging ground to target DU feminists and troll this site. http://www.discussionist.com/101636776 There have been threads vilifying "feminazis" for months. People have received congratulations for targeting women on DU.
This situation did not come out of nowhere. It emerged from a pervasive climate that extends beyond a single troll. The Doctor went full throttle today, but he is the same person he has been for months, the same person who threatened to rape Seabeyond several months ago, and the same person who has voiced his contempt for women since the very beginning of Discussionist. Sadly, he is far from alone in those views.
He also claims to be an active member of DU. Would an IP check enable you to know if that is actually the case?
If the policy of Discussionist is that threats of rape and violence against specific persons doesn't result in a ban, I think that is very troubling. People do sometimes act on such threats.
Response to BainsBane (Reply #143)
Name removed Message auto-removed
with all due respect, Earl, I think a section of the TOS on both DU and Discusionist devoted to misogyny would be wonderful. You administrators still have the final say on who gets banned and suspended, but at least it's there in black and white for trolls to look up on Google. If people don't understand what misogyny is, then a fruitful discussion can be had on both sites. I'm not naive enough to believe that 100% of all posters will always be in 100% agreement on what the precise definition of misogyny is, but if I were running DU and Discussionist, that's what I would do.
My $0.02. Sincerely, have a good evening, sir.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)as has been pointed out countless times
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Laelth (19,727 posts)
33. Excellent post.
Last edited Sat May 24, 2014, 06:45 PM - Edit history (1)
I would add that there's a socio-biological purpose behind the sexual selection choices of the women who, according to the shooter, chose others over him. As I understand it, testosterone is a fierce immuno-suppressant. A man with high testosterone who survives infancy probably has a killer immune system, and women seem programed to choose males with high testosterone--most likely to pass on that killer immune system to their children. I feel sorry for women when it comes to this dynamic. They're driven by their genetic code to seek out the most vicious barbarian they can find to mate with, but then they can't live with the guy ... because he's a vicious barbarian. It's not like the shooter didn't have a point about womens' seemingly-natural sexual selection tendencies.
You rightly note, however, that most of us mature and make better choices as we age.
-Laelth
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=thread&address=10024995511&alert=33#post33
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Response to rhett o rick (Reply #165)
rbrnmw This message was self-deleted by its author.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)TDale313
(7,820 posts)Are rape threats (or threats of violence) a banable offense here or on Discussionist? If not, that's a major problem.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Because there are always a few men out there who will definitely take these threats and act out on them.
In order to even read that crap he wrote, you have to jump through the following hoops:
1. Go to a different website
2. Create an account at that website
3. Log in to the website
4. Click on the member's profile page
Except, not any more because for some reason it is now also posted over here on DU as well.
Which applies to more than Discussionist crap being brought over.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)One of a plethora of puerile sexists/misogynists was actually banned!
Forgive me if I don't celebrate this rare event.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)for DU because of what some troll said before being shut down is a win for the troll. In this particular instance, physical threats are crimes that should be reported to the proper authorities and not blamed on DU unless it can be shown unequivocally that DU condones such behavior, which would be news to me.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)A jury allowed this thread attacking the victims to stand...
http://www.discussionist.com/101637280
Do you still think the jury system is working when threads attacking people who just received rape threats are allowed?
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)I thought you said good-bye a while back
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I appreciate (and like) that discussionist is based on discussion board unfettered by the prior restraint inherent in a TOS like DU has.
I would make an exception for illegal activity. If the behavior of a poster would constitute a crime, I think it's reasonable to ban the poster outright, socks or no socks, trolling or not.
Threats of physical violence should qualify.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Reposting his shit all over DU would seem to serve no purpose whatsoever.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)However, it appears they are more interested in verbally abusing the victims.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)I'm pretty sure it's going to be reported to the police regardless.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)only for that ban to later be overturned. I'm not going to name names, since such an action would possibly be viewed as a callout and because the matter is pretty much water under the bridge. However I do wonder what gives DU moral standing to condemn Discussionist and even go so far as to call for its dissolution due to the postings of a troll who went 0-28 among their jurors when here at DU we have such a case in our history.
Crabby Appleton
(5,231 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)In order to even read that crap he wrote, you have to jump through the following hoops:
1. Go to a different website
2. Create an account at that website
3. Log in to the website
4. Click on the member's profile page
Except, not any more because for some reason it is now also posted over here on DU as well.
Thanks for that.
Some people are not happy unless they're miserable, and are even happier when everyone else knows how miserable they are.
Tips:
1. If you find Discussionist a misogynist shithole, don't go there
2. If you find DU a misogynist shithole, don't go there
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)I asked cyberswede to self-delete. Can the profile be scrubbed as well?
Just asking.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Knocking out your gf and dragging her out of an elevator gets you a shorter suspension than smoking weed. Disgusting. Seriously.
Admins should be ashamed to allow that to continue with only a "hide" as a repercussion. I know... jury system, let the community monitor themselves. That's a bunch of bullshit. A cop out. You run a site you need to take some responsibility and be at least a tiny bit proactive, you can't just throw your hands in the air and say the community will deal with it.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 1, 2014, 09:39 PM - Edit history (1)
I understand why you and Skinner see this the way you see it.
I also understand why Bainsbane and Boston Bean see it the way they see it.
To sum up your point of view, everything worked like it should, the troll got banned. I kind of agree.
To sum up their point of view, not enough is being done to foster a non-misogynist environment on both sites and this episode with the doctor is symptomatic of that. I kind of agree with that too, not enough is being done in general against bigoted views here on DU against several groups, Jews, Women, LGBT, etc.
I know you and Skinner are extremely reluctant to do this, but it might help to start out with an addendum to the TOS that spell out certain kinds of bigoted behavior that are unacceptable.
Even though I am guessing you probably saw this already, in case you haven't, here is how Fark handled it. They added this to their moderator guidelines, an expanded list like this could be added to the TOS:
Things that aren't acceptable:
- Rape jokes
- Calling women as a group "whores" or "sluts" or similar demeaning terminology
- Jokes suggesting that a woman who suffered a crime was somehow asking for it
Obviously, these are just a few examples and shouldn't be taken as the full gospel, but to give you a few examples of what will always be over the line. Trying to anticipate every situation and every conversation in every thread would be ridiculous, so consider these guidelines and post accordingly. I recommend that when encountering grey areas, instead of trying to figure out where the actual line is, the best strategy would be to stay out of the grey area entirely.
As one of the folks who picks headlines, I can also say with some certainty that we're not going to get everything right all the time on our end either. I've been trying to keep an eye toward these guidelines for a couple months now and I still make mistakes and/or miss problem taglines completely. We're trying to make the Fark community a better place, and hopefully this will be a few steps in the right direction.
and we can add things for LGBT like "making statements advocating for something other than complete equality for the LGBT community", etc.
Edited to add: Bainesbane had a list of what she considered misogynist statements. I agree with most not all, here are the ones I agree with that I think should be added to the TOS:
Misogyny can be extreme and intensive or chronic and pervasive. Among the positions some feminists identify with sexism and misogyny are the following:
Insisting the SCOTUS Hobby Lobby decision isn't a big deal
Insisting men should have the right to compel a woman to abort a fetus
Insisting a man's having to pay child support equates with the state's efforts to prohibit abortion
Insisting men are more oppressed than women
Adopting the GOP idea of forcible rape vs. other rape and insisting the later (usually child rape) is less serious.
Insisting that large numbers of women invent false rape charges
Insisting rapists should not be punished with jail time
Frequently taking the side of accused rapists over their victims
Insisting women's issues and feminism aren't important and don't constitute real politics
Calling women c...t and b....s
A whole slew of derogatory or sexualized comments about women's bodies
anti-choice positions
opposing ACA's covering of women's reproductive care
blaming women for their own sexual assaults
arguing that violence against women isn't important
arguing that rape isn't a societal problem
Insisting a misogynistic mass murderer had real concerns about how bad off men have it today
denying sexism and misogyny
arguing that women in the US should be content with what they have
Citing a study held out by an MRA big-wig that claims women say no when they really mean yes
Insisting consent is "elastic"
Insisting that consent is assumed.
Insisting there is no such thing as male privilege
hlthe2b
(102,292 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Every now and then, I catch up with this hip jive
Heidi
(58,237 posts)For many of us, DU is a community. It is not unreasonable for a member of this community to share with her DU friends that she has been threatened with rape in another community. It is not unreasonable for a DUer to share her sadness about such a threat. It is not unreasonable for a DUer to ask her DU community how she might best deal with such a threat. What does strike me as unreasonable is for you to essentially blame the victim and then wind down your response with a snarky "Thanks for that."
Also, please consider that 36 minutes is by no means "in short order" when one is threatened with rape.
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)The answer is, of course, no. Good luck with DeSean.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)We get enough drive by trolling here. I support feminism and will not go over there.
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)on the net should be criminalized. No one should be attacked like that.
still_one
(92,219 posts)there, and sorry, won't click on the links either
JaydenD
(294 posts)I doubt you would see positive ACA ads or anything not negative about Obama and this admin on sites like Limbaugh and Beck and those others. DU has impeach Obama ads, anti-Holder ads, some really vomitous stuff. There is no way any rightwinger membership would accept seeing liberal ads just for the sake of more money coming into the coffers.
still_one
(92,219 posts)JaydenD
(294 posts)I'm just saying that no way would membership on a rightwing site accept positive anything ads for Democrats. But yet it's supposedly okay here, for some mysterious reason that is $$$.
LeftishBrit
(41,208 posts)Any way of identifying/reporting them?
I wonder if it's the same one from the Hate Mail Bag of 2013, who advised the admins of DU to 'eat a bag of dicks':
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2507188
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Sounds like it very well could be him.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=306421&sub=trans
('Vashta Nerada' are Doctor Who monsters)
One of the worse misogynists on DU, but appears to have psychological problems now - unable to discuss women with flying off the handle. I don't think the police would take a report about them, however; I suspect an ISP would just say it's up to sites to ban them.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)It sucks when really disgusting people like that use Dr Who usernames. I like Dr Who, or at least I did when David Tennant was the Doctor.
Unless things are different in the US than here or where you are, I think you might be right about police and ISP's not taking action. It really is up to the sites to ban them, though given Facebook's appalling track record on about anything to do with women, if it'd happened there, they probably wouldn't do anything.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)and VN shared a misogynist outlook with them, and was banned as a zombie; and there's the Who name links.
Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #228)
pintobean This message was self-deleted by its author.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)I know who it is.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)No matter how I change my password, I can't get in over there.
I suspect that's something about which I should be happy.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Are you promoting the website?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)But yeah...I saw that, it is a cesspool for troglodytes.
hlthe2b
(102,292 posts)participated:
I have not yet received the results, but anyone here who thinks this level of ugly misogyny is not being seeded here truly needs to think again.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)and saw the little hate-fest pile-on about me. How convenient that I'm blocked from the group and can't respond. I'll tell you, since I can't reply there - I did not alert on seabeyond's hidden post. I just found it amusing that she only had a few days to post.
hlthe2b
(102,292 posts)I don't follow...
That alert was not on seabeyond, btw.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,034 posts)A big reason I avoid it.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)If people are dissatisfied, that should only make it easier to not spend time there.
Might as well play candy crush all day. Really, there are better ways to spend your time than engaging in troll fests or making pointless arguments in cyberspace.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)It means the language of the common people. Who will decide what is acceptable language? Maybe Skinner needs to give us a list of unacceptable words.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)The "common people" you are around must be very disturbed people. Common people may swear once in a while, but most don't use the level of vulgar racist, misogynistic, and violent rhetoric seen in the Doctor's profile. If you need anyone to explain to you why the Doctor's words were not acceptable you have serious issues.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I pointed out what the OP said was incorrect. However, I do think we need a list of unacceptable words from the administration because any word these day is attacked if someone thinks it shouldn't be used and it makes it very hard to write anything anymore.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)If you need to be told words like the N word and C word are not acceptable that is your problem. Most of us are able to write just fine without having to be told not to write racist and misogynistic crap like the Doctor wrote.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)You don't need to be smart to know that the Doctor's post was racist and misogynistic and anyone who would find it acceptable is also obviously racist and misogynistic.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Just kidding. I don't go there.