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JEB

(4,748 posts)
Wed Sep 3, 2014, 11:15 PM Sep 2014

Will NATO Saber Rattling Derail Hopes for Ukraine-Russia Détente?

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2014/09/03/will-nato-saber-rattling-derail-hopes-ukraine-russia-detente

On the eve of NATO summit, Obama calls for a united front against Russian "aggression" while Putin and Poroshenko negotiate ceasefire
by
Deirdre Fulton, staff writer

The rhetoric around Russia's — and more specifically, Putin's — aggression is misplaced, some experts warn, and threatens to undermine reconciliation. In fact, it could have the opposite effect, provoking a large-scale confrontation between NATO-aligned countries and Russia.

David Gibbs, a professor of history and government at the University of Arizona who has written extensively on NATO, says:

Foreign policy specialists have rightly condemned Russian intervention in the Ukraine, which has aggravated political divisions in that country. At the same time, we should recognize that the United States and NATO have also contributed to the destabilization. Russia’s actions are at least partly a response to policies adopted by the U.S. and NATO immediately following the Cold War.

snip.

"You need to know...that accusations of a major Russian 'invasion' of Ukraine appear not to be supported by reliable intelligence," the memo reads. "If the photos that NATO and the U.S. have released represent the best available “proof” of an invasion from Russia, our suspicions increase that a major effort is under way to fortify arguments for the NATO summit to approve actions that Russia is sure to regard as provocative."

Meanwhile, Ukrainian civilians continue to suffer. The UN Refugee Agency estimated Tuesday that 260,000 people have been displaced in Ukraine since the conflict began.

In a statement, UN High Commissioner for Refugees António Guterres said: "If this crisis is not quickly stopped, it will have not only devastating humanitarian consequences but it also has the potential to destabilize the whole region. After the lessons of the Balkans, it is hard to believe a conflict of these proportions could unfold in the European continent."
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Will NATO Saber Rattling Derail Hopes for Ukraine-Russia Détente? (Original Post) JEB Sep 2014 OP
Wait, how could Ukraine and Russia be at war AND Russia have no troops in Ukraine? DetlefK Sep 2014 #1
I suspect no more than Russian tank treads rattling. pampango Sep 2014 #2

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
1. Wait, how could Ukraine and Russia be at war AND Russia have no troops in Ukraine?
Thu Sep 4, 2014, 04:51 AM
Sep 2014

The author's reasoning has a big hole.

If there are russian troops in Ukraine, then NATO saber-rattling does not have a negative effect on returning to the status quo.

If there are no russian troops in Ukraine, how could there even be a Russia-Ukraine-conflict that needs a detente?

pampango

(24,692 posts)
2. I suspect no more than Russian tank treads rattling.
Thu Sep 4, 2014, 08:35 AM
Sep 2014

Of course, Putin's offer of a ceasefire or of discussion points for talks about a ceasefire or whatever the current terminology is was made just a couple of days before the NATO meeting. That was certainly good timing on his part. Well played, Mr. Putin.

My guess is that cease fire talks or talks about cease fire talks will go on for the duration of the meeting. Many people will legitimately fret that any rash NATO declarations ("Saber Rattling&quot or actions will hurt ceasefire negotiations or talks about having them. If ceasefire talks, or discussion points, were not on the table and fighting was continuing, as it is, the angst over what NATO will say or do would be of a different nature.

After the NATO meeting concludes, for one reason or another but probably because Putin perceives that someone said something "provocative" at the meeting, all bets will be off. Those ceasefire talks that seemed like such a good idea a few days ago will collapse.

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