irresponsible assholes

Assholery must be a partly genetic condition.

Can you imagine, wanting to expose your child to such a dangerous and violent machine?

Did they also give her the keys to race cars and her own sticks of dynamite?

I wonder if the instructor had any say in deciding if the child could or could not shoot the uzi.
I hope his family sues the owners of the crap place -Bullets and Burgers

Unloaded the Uzi and taken the whole shit to the counter and left.

But I suspect that he had free will to talk to the parents or at least hold the rifle with her, kept his hands on it with her, so that it wouldn't drift as it did.

This error in judgement cost him his life.

There was a lot of stupid at Burgers and Bullets that day.

So sad for the girl.

These people payed for the instructors time and the rental on the weapon. It was a tragedy, but in no way is the range liable for any supposed damages caused to the family. If anything the spouse of the instructor could sue the range owner, but I doubt it.
Personally I disagree with the range for allowing anyone under 18 to fire full auto weaponry, but there are no laws against it in this situation.

Such stupidity. But a lot of that probably comes from their egos, too, including the instructor. Guns as status symbols and bragging rights.

picture of my child using that a 6 ft chain saw.

What do you think of this video. Note this is a very small chain saw.

trying to make is that your child survived all right after using a chainsaw; therefore, a child firing an Uzi is a similarly dangerous activity. Do I have that right?

Well, riding a horse is dangerous and children are taught at a young age to do that. Skiing is dangerous, too,, and kids are taught to ski at a young age. Heck, crossing the wide, busy streets like in the Los Angeles area is dangerous, too. You hear all the time about young children run over in the crosswalks. Planes crash, cars crash. There was a kid who fell and broke his neck in Coronado CA from what looked to be his attempt to swing from a chandelier in his own home, but he fell to the floor below to his ultimate death.

All horrible things.

I still think that this is more about parents wanting to brag about their child firing an Uzi. Uzi's are what -- about 12 thousand? How cool is that to brag to your adult friends about -- your child shot a status symbol gun. How much gratification does your ego need. But it turns out their outing was more about stupidity and pure negligence with someone being shot in the head. That was not an "accident," per se. That was pure negligence. The grown-ups were trying to show off and a fatal error in judgment occurred which = stupidity.

BTW, I would not have my child at that age use a chainsaw, but that's just me.

A 9 year old should be firing a single shot .22 instead of an Uzi, and that I feel that activity would be safer than what this boy is doing with a chainsaw. I equate giving an Uzi to a 9 year old to having them handle a large chainsaw or doing the Richard Petty Driving experience instead of a go kart.

You are right about the next step being a vanity video showing what my kid can do. Several on Youtube.

not to stereotype but it's her first time seeing a Uzi so I guess she wanted to tape it and show friends how her daiughter could manage a gun in American when that would not be so in Australia.

I didn't know people could do that.

They do have the right to remain silent but there's an issue as to whether or not the parents must be present.

until they are charged for an offence.

do you have to be that rude?

Vegas is about as family friendly as you can get...

I don't think gambling is something kids should be exposed to and I think the kids would have chosen Orlando over Vegas.

Myth: Most gamblers are introduced to gambling by their friends.
Fact: Most gamblers are introduced to gambling by a parent or an adult close to them, often as young as 10 or 11 years of age.
http://leafinc.org/problem-gambling-and-your-kids-fact-sheet/

we were kids. We stayed at the Riviera, across the street from Circus-Circus. We had a ball. Neither my brother nor I grew up to be deranged madmen as a result.

We grew up around gambling. The men-folk in our part of the south bet on football. It's a tradition. We'd have big evenings with friends playing poker. My dear old mum and her sister enjoy going to Biloxi for low-stakes gambling on the boats.

Like a lot of things, just because some people lose their minds doing some activity doesn't mean that activity is intrinsically evil.

Some people are risk takers and gamblers. Some fine people and some cretins. Like anything else. I'm drawn more toward risk takers than non-risk-takers.

Actually, all this talk about gambling is making me want to get in my car and go to an Indian casino. LOL

so can a penchant for expensive clothes.

much of a kick it had and that his little girl probably would not be able to handle it.

This 100%.

eom

That's about the only justification for this incident, otherwise there isn't any.

dumb things. Lack of just plain ole common sense? Things that are plain as day to ordinary people just go right by them.

A 4th grader would have known that taking a 9 year old to a firing range was an awful idea.

It makes no sense to me at all. How could these parents not realize what a completely stupid thing they were doing?

My son was 5 when I first taught him to shoot, he is now 34 and enjoys outdoor sports, and has just taught my grandson to enjoy his first .22.

The guy apparently lacks enough street smarts to do the math on uzi+9 year old child. Obviously he and her mother lack certain critical thinking skills. It doesn't matter what his job is or where or how long he went to college.

Last edited Sat Sep 6, 2014, 11:52 AM - Edit history (1)

with my power mower or use a Skil saw. Not tall enough, nor enough strength and knowledge to do either safely. Let a 9 year old shoot an Uzi? Not a chance.

12 years old minimum for the mower and at least 16 before using the saw. And then, only after training in safety.

Does it give a closer trim?

Or so I hear. I made a little editing change there. Thanks!

You can see how unsteady she is...and her stance is all wrong. The instructor was apparently not a very good one.

use the lawnmower at 13-14 to mow his lawn. They wanted to do it and were sure they could. He didn't think they were old enough and big and strong enough yet.

We had a gasoline powered reel-type mower, with an engine that was a real PITA to start. No excuses. I finally figured out that a squirt of model airplane fuel in the carb would make it start on the first pull every time. Finally, my little brother turned 12, and I handed that job off to him, but took pity on him and taught him that trick for getting that %&$% mower running.

part of an incredibly evil plan by my Dad to gain an appreciation for the motorized mower I would eventually "get the privilege to use" years later. Very multi-dimensional chess of him, I must say!

That strikes me as more relevant than the parents' educational backgrounds.

If the kid had been sitting on a horse and the horse had kicked the trainer in the head, no one would care which college the kid's parents had attended.

could use those weapons. He may have had as much decision-making power as a Walmart clerk

A Walmart employee doesn't typically have to determine whether or not to hand an instantly lethal machine to a child for immediate use on the premises.

IIRC, the dead guy was certified in the use of these weapons, so he should have had both the education and sense to say "I'm not giving her this gun."

And if there were repercussions? Well, it's better to be fired than shot.

Don't you think he was there to generate profit and nothing else? Who knows he may well have been one more second amendment goon.
You and I would think that way, but then we would never work at a shooting range.

The reasons and post hoc justifications are indicental.

I wouldn't suggest that he deserved to be shot, but if the event unfolded as described, then IMO he bears primary responsibility for his death.

Why on earth would you underestimate the gun recoil, especially with a child who can barely hold the gun on their own in the first place. What part of "child" were they not understanding??

Just so incredibly stupid all the way around.

potentially has some responsibility for the safety of his work environment. The employer is obligated to provide appropriate training on the safe handling of equipment and performing processes.

In this he is no different than a miner or a factory worker. I understand OSHA is taking a look. This might lead to additional regulation of gun ranges. Irrespective of age placing a Uzi in the hands of an untrained individual can be viewed as creating a risky work environment.

Whether explicit or implicit showing the family a good time is part of the duties of the range employee. Can he deny a request from the family to fire the weapon? Is it standard operating procedure for children to fire such a weapon.

That is what a court case is for.

The ironic thing is the deepest pocket is the investment banker. Could we see a lawsuit against him by Vacca's family? Surely they will sue his employer (unless they are immune due to worker's compensation). I wonder if the range owner fulfilled all the requirements of being an employer.

But you're right--this needs to be determined for certain. I suspect that the site probably maintains clear safety rules, and if the employee violated these rules than I doubt the employer bears responsibility.

he could sue for wrongful employment termination. That would bring out what assholes they are. Better than life termination.

I would have let them fire me but I doubt that he gave a thought to preventing her from shooting the Uzi.

Too bad he didn't get his degrees in science rather than business - he might have picked up some common sense.

still a gun nut shithead.

Fitting. From article

'Alex conceived the idea of establishing a business to acquire and manage homes in urban areas experiencing strong growth and gentrification in 2008,' according to the website of his employers, Dixon USA.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2743422/Revealed-Devastated-father-girl-9-shot-dead-instructor-Uzi-gun-range-horror-investment-banker.html#ixzz3CYQtZVZb
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The weapon instructor, well, see...that's his job, his risk, his life and we all read where the
parents came running up to comfort the little girl even with the instructor down on the ground.

I get the picture...

Tikki

but I'm a little saddened that this girl has been identified now worldwide. That must place even more of a burden on her even though none of this was her fault.

Could you give me a context/definition?

Sorry for the definition before the context, which is Media acting as a instigator, as opposed to an informer, all to sell toothpaste while polarizing us .

Cornell education=results in you as a future parent giving your child a Uzi?

is not the same as doing well in school.

I can vouch that the place was richly supplied with fools.

(And no, as big a fool as I am, I cannot fathom a situation where I'd let a child near a weapon, other than perhaps boxing gloves or a boomerang.)