The majority of people here have already convicted Zimmerman and wanted his arrest and now that he is arrested and charges have been brought, I was just wondering if people here will do as the Reverend Al said and abide by the jury system or will they whine if it doesn't turn out the way they want.

What was missing was an arrest. The police dropped the ball.

No better than a poor fart joke, mind, but at least you made the effort....

Are you 12?....sir

to know better and mind your manners. Disgusting.

Leave me alone.

I think it's high time I decided for myself when to bow out of discussions. Have you checked the penalties for 2nd degree murder in Florida, by the way?

The OP missed the point, didn't he/she?

Now I'm screwn...

I like it with cheddar.

Or are you just whining for attention.

and nobody is stopping other evidence from coming forward. those who think he is guilty have said he should get a trial.

That greatly reduces the chance that he'll be sentenced to death.

"greatly reduces," LOL!

* JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON *

Anybody who's not on the jury has every right to make up their mind as to how they feel about this case. Innocent until Proven Guilty applies in the courtroom, those of us outside of it can think however the hell we want.

I can't think of any fact that could be presented that would justify that act.

Also, I am one DU'er adamantly against the death penalty.

Or is that not allowed? Did we all get sequestered or something?

But is it wrong for other DUers to ask questions? Or is that not allowed any longer?

How about using the hide thread function? It has always worked awesomely for me and I have used it liberally on the Zimmerman threads. The only yapping I see here isn't coming from me.

The facts usually win out on DU. And, I think you are completely wrong about what gives DUer's orgasms. And btw, some facts have come forward - not all of them, but I have no doubt that my fellow DUer's, while very opinionated, will take the side of facts and truth. They always do.

Deal with it

But don't mind if other people discuss it as well and discuss what they think happened.

That's all I'm saying.

It's just funny that this has been my most active post in 10 years because I asked a question against the grain.

it's that you wrote an OP with a broadbrush (and inaccurate) statement insulting all DUers and included a factual error.

You win.

But I don't want to get a post hidden.

the point. Boy did you miss the point.

I am glad that they investigated and charged him and will be interested in seeing what comes out but mostly I am very glad that he didn't continue to simply walk away from this.

That's just the facts.

That's just the facts.

intricacies of the case, I won't pay that much attention to it. I'll be interested to hear what the verdict is, but not obsessed with this case personally. I'm a little taken aback at how this has become such a hot topic for the media and DU.

I am against it so I would not want to see GZ sentenced to it. I certainly don't want to be part of any collective orgasm and I don't know who else here would want to.

I am willing to bet everyone has an opinion - mine is that GZ is guilty as charged - but I'd also bet that nearly every one of us would listen to real evidence and we may have to adjust our currently held beliefs accordingly.

Seems like you have already made up your mind that we are all a lynch mob. That's the sense I get from your OP. IF that isn;t true than maybe re-word your questions?

Ultimately it doesn't matter what we believe - the system will now have a chance to work. That's all most people wanted. QWe'll see how that goes.

that the collective orgasm won't be the same without you.

the fact that he had a hand gun and Trayvon Martin was unarmed , and is now dead, is all the evidence that is needed.


the bastard needs to spend the rest of his life in jail.....it's just too bad the asshole that sold gun won't be prosecuted with him.

There is still DU2 that's quite active.

Also, many DUers, present company very much included, oppose the death penalty under all circumstances, and would rejoicve if it were applied even to pond scum like Zimmerman.

Zimmerman forced a confrontation with an unarmed Martin, shot and killed him, and the police fouled up the investigation. What other facts matter?

On the tape the 911 operator tells Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon. Simple right there he overstep his bound. I don't see why people don't get that. If he would have listened nothing else would of happened. His girlfriend on the phone said some guy was following him and he didn't know why. She was on the phone the whole time. Those are the facts. They aren't made up facts. Zimmerman comes out with his story. Something doesn't sound right with his story. Now he will go before a jury. That is where all the facts will come out. That's where it should come on. We all have to listen to the juries final answer. I pray it is right and Trayvon family gets justice. No one is a winner I feel bad to Zimmerman. If nothing else in this cause happens lets hope the stand your ground law is repealed across the states that have it on the books.

Did he turn around? Or is there proof he kept after him?

1. he agreed to meet the police by the mail boxes. that is not where Trayvon was shot and killed.
2. he got out of his car
3. he admits in the police report that he followed him and there was a confrontation. he claims that Trayvon attacked him from behind after he was *returning* to his car.

Even his lies to the police include following Trayvon after the police told him not to.

Maybe from space.

I'd love to hear Johnnie Cochran's take on all this.

My post was not really serious.

Sounds like you don't like DU too much.

Otherwise there would not be all of the arguments that sometimes have to be resolved by the DU jury to keep personal attacks acceptable - which means that not everyone marches to the same drummer.

I don't know how you missed that.

And it tends to indicate that you have made up your mind about DU, despite evidence to the contrary.

I know that when "discussion" starts that is not quite of the majority, the loud mouths gang up on the person and the person who goes against the grain is shut down and the majority jerks each other off and all is fine.

Some people might disagree with you, but no one's going to stop you.

The crowds in the Republican debates was an example.

I have been a minority in some instances.

I guess that is just what happens in different group dynamics.

But it is broad brushing to assume that all will have the same opinion. There are those who will consider the evidence carefully. I think most will do that.

get the death penalty.

But I have seen so much hatred here in the last few weeks I wonder if I am in a place where progressives come to discuss things.

think the death penalty is an easy way out. I would make them think about the victim everyday of their lives. I would never let them leave the jail.

Still, at this point, I see manslaughter at most, and I'm still uncertain on that. I'll need murder 2 proved to me. I wouldn't convict on that with my current understanding of the law and the facts.

Especially considering the death penalty is not a possible result of charges he faces.

so it's seems you haven't been paying full attention to the facts yourself.

But then again I smile a lot.

And I don't believe in the death penalty. I don't cry over the Tim McVeighs of this world when the penalty is imposed but I'm against it nonetheless.

But I do reserve the right to discuss cases and the news on a message board.

Somehow this doesn't look very orgasmic.

[url=http://www.cosgan.de/smilie.php][img][/img][/url]

There must have been more to it than that. Hmm.

As far as I know there's no majority here that approves of the death penalty, either, which is irrelevant, since the 2nd Degree Murder charge doesn't allow that sentence. If Zimmerman doesn't plead guilty, there will be a trial, which will be closely followed by DUers. There will be a verdict. If he pleads guilty to manslaughter, there won't be a trial and he'll be off to prison.

I think most DUers feel pretty certain that he's at least guilty of manslaughter. He had the firearm, after all, and the boy was unarmed. I tend to think he's probably guilty of 2nd Degree Murder, but I expect him to plead guilty to manslaughter, which will save the cost of a trial and a lot of embarrassment for the local cops and county prosecutor.

We shall find out, though.

The evidence seemed more than sufficient for an arrest. There wasn't an arrest until now. That's what the controversy was.

Why do you act like any DUers don't want there to be a fair trial? I suspect even MORE DUers would be outraged if he was summarily sentenced without a fair trial.

I asked one day why people weren't pissed about the Sanford PD and that went to shit here. From what I've seen on here it was all about "Zimmy" and not how shitty the cops handled it.

Innocent before proven guilty is a principle of our legal system. It is not to make independent analysis a thoughtcrime. It is not meant to imply a suppression on speech or thought, even as a judgement call.

Every day, people get arrested. News about that arrest spreads far and wide. People look at the evidence, and they can't help but put together the information in their head.

Aggregating information in your head, and posting about that information, is not necessarily a bad thing. Discussion is not a bad thing. What would be a bad thing is if the jurors on the case followed the case in advance and were predisposed to make a particular verdict. But our legal system is very good at getting an untainted jury. I still think more people here would be outraged if someone who they thought was guilty didn't get a fair trial.

In any case, I think if he was arrested at the time, there would not be nearly the controversy.

but if I had I damn sure would have joined in any Sanford PD criticism. I feel people should lose their jobs over this at the very least. And I am not convinced that someone isn't guilty of criminally bungling/covering up/fucking with the case to make it easier for GZ to get away with murder.

1. Zimmerman disobeyed the dispatcher and exited his truck to follow Martin.

2. Martin was armed only with a cell phone, iced tea, and Skittles.

3. Martin can be heard begging for his life.

4. There was no blood on Zimmerman's clothing by video evidence, which is the only evidence that exists.

Whatever else happens, these four things contradict Zimmerman's story as an unsung hero who fired at extremely close range because he was in fear for his life.

I have no idea what a defense attorney will do with the absence of forensic evidence thanks to police bungling. Zimmerman might still skate.

I just think it will be a miscarriage of justice as well as a horrible precedent if he does.

Other than that, let the court sort it out. I'm sure there will be a lot of things brought out at his trial that we don't yet know. Some might even be exculpatory.

However, I really don't want to see a vigilante get away with it.

Very, very few -- if any -- people here will be on the jury. Hence, suggesting that people should not think for themselves is just plain 'ole silly.

Over your head H20 man. It's fine.

I read & responded, then found myself thinking, "WTF?"

Perhaps if I was thinking to begin with !

My error; I own it.

and Zimmerman is lucky I won't be on the jury.

A lot that shoud not have been released, was.

By the way early on I pointed to that as a very real problem.

"I think he's guilty of murder..."

Mirror, mirror, heal thy physician.

If you're hoping for a respectful silence while the wheels of justice slowly grind, I'd suggest somewhere other than the Internet.

Nothing posted on DU will have the slightest bearing on the outcomes of any criminal or civil cases.

I have no idea what will happen in this case, but it is worth thinking about. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I want to see what you all thought on this. I've been on DU long enough to know when to shut my trap, but I think this whole thing is very important and can have a lot of impact on society if it is presented as what it is and that is that killing anyone for the sake of killing is wrong wrong wrong.

Most of the time DU can be a huge circle jerk and I think that by posting an alternative view it gets people thinking and posting better posts than "you go girl!"

Seriously, a lot of you are very intuitive and have great insight and I just like to bring it out more

Such natural talent ought to find some means of profitable exploitation....

I'm not trying to be a dick and I'm doing a hell of a job not being one..thanks.

impeccable retort. You do Rock, Sir, if I may say so.

not that your OP didn't already make that pretty clear

Along with probably every other single DUer who also won;t be called as a juror (which is probably every single DUer)?

Dialogue shouldn't be shut down on this subject.

And confidently. I don't think she would have filed the charges if she didn't think they would fly. Zimmerman's new attorny, Mark O'Mara, seems very good. He may try to plead down the charges. At least Z is off the streets. He seems like a nutty loose cannon out there.

and you sit behind your keyboard with your pompous false sense of superiority in judgement of DU, and you think that has any value, or contributes anything to this discussion other than trying to squelch debate by ridiculing your fellow DU'ers.

really?

fail

What else do you have?

and when I say most I mean the vast majority of us, are anti death penalty.

I also note that this is a discussion forum where all of us are supposed to share our thoughts but this person is upset that many of us have an opinion that Zimmerman is guilty. And what is the garbage about whether DUers will 'let the facts come out'? What kind of bullshit power is the OP misattributing to DU/DUers in his orgy of passive-aggressiveness?

As the Magistrate said, for someone supposedly trying not to be a dick, the OP did a really good job of acting like a dick.

whose voice was crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot.
I guess the state knows the answer.

We can hope to hear them through witnesses but that can only get us so much as I don't think any were close enough to account for the entire encounter.

I also think that no matter what happened in the encounter George is guilty of murder or manslaughter, I'm not 100% on legal definitions. Since it was he who 'started' this and had no power/authority to do so, had he not confronted Trayvon, the young man would not be dead and he would never had felt 'afraid' for his life' if that actually is why he shot the young man.

I also won't be having an orgasm if he is sentenced to death. I think most people should not be sentenced to death, only those who show they are clearly 'insane' and have accumulated so much prison time that there is no point in storing them for decades so they can potentially spread their 'sickness' through the world via letters/books/interviews. Absent studying those people I see no reason as a society to keep those people alive but I am not perfect and I see that as one of my flaws as a human, wanting another I see as 'less than human' to be put to death over having us collectively subsidize their 'crazy'.

I have no qualms in saying that Zimmerman is guilty of murder. I don't need endless pundits and whatnot, I know the facts as presented by the media and through sources like MSNBC and this site.

If he is NOT found guilty of murder there will be riots, totally understandable in my opinion. That is a flat-out guarantee, and I wouldn't be too hard-pressed to join them myself.

He will be tried in a court of law by a jury of his peers.

Witnesses will be called to testify under the penalty of perjury - and hopefully something closer to the truth than what is currently available in the noise of rumors, innuendo, and speculation - can and will be found.

Personally from what I have read it sounds like he is guilty of murder, but ultimately that will be for a (hopefully unbiased) jury to determine.