General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Ladies, The Smarter You Are, The More Likely You Are To Be Single"
In an article by The Wire, financial reporter, John Carney, gives one explanation for this phenomenon, deducing, successful men date less successful women not because they want women to be dumb but rather because they want someone who prioritizes their life in a way thats compatible with how you prioritize yours.
A study conducted with 121 British participants reported findings that females with high intelligence in male/female relationships were seen as problematic.
Their intelligence were predicted to cause problems in the relationships. Whereas, high intelligence in the male partner was not seen as problematic, but desirable.
Read more: http://elitedaily.com/women/intelligent-women-likely-single/678309/
DU's perspective? Agree or disagree?
Arkansas Granny
(31,518 posts)The Traveler
(5,632 posts)"Marriage is a fine institution ... but who the hell wants to live in an institution?"
Trav
Arkansas Granny
(31,518 posts)The Traveler
(5,632 posts)And tough as nails. 15 years gone, now. Still miss her.
Trav
denem
(11,045 posts)(just joking) I adore Mae West.
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough;
Don't save yourself for anyone. It doesn't earn any interest
The Traveler
(5,632 posts)and may have, uh, paraphrased her without giving attribution???
Trav
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Tried it both ways, and found I do so love my institution-free independence!
for your mom!
deafskeptic
(463 posts)Raven
(13,893 posts)hamsterjill
(15,222 posts)Amen! Me, too!
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)who was tired of stupid bimbos hitting on him asking him how much he could make with a PhD in Chemistry.....
ProfessorGAC
(65,076 posts)So did my wife!
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,076 posts)Maybe it's something about "Chemistry". Get it?????
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Yes I gt it
abbeyco
(1,555 posts)Single for a significant portion of my life. I do think there are some men who are intimidated by boobs and brains and there are some men turned on by them. Go figure...
ProfessorGAC
(65,076 posts)Magna Cum Laude, dual bachelor degrees in 3 and a half years. So, i'm not one who doesn't like woman smart.
surrealAmerican
(11,362 posts)I guess it may point to a phenomenon that is true for British people specifically, but without a larger sample size, we can't know even that.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)I am in my mid-forties and I do not know a single marriage relationship where the woman in said relationship is not highly intelligent and in most cases highly educated. My own wife is incredibly bright and has higher education level attainment than I do and I am VERY thankful for it. We are challenging of each other and help each other grow... I don't know that I COULD be in a complex relationship like a marriage with someone considerably less intelligent than I. Of course, if the woman is considerably MORE intelligent, I would imagine the relationship won't work (or WILL be problematic) because SHE would have issues.
sP
valerief
(53,235 posts)Does one have to be smarter than the other, too?
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)don't forget to tip the waitstaff.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)Had one woman tell me "I like a man that takes full-charge and tells me what to do"
I told her: "So you're used to being a door-mat? ...Sorry, we would never make it"
I wouldn't have been so abrupt but she seemed proud of her wants.
I found them degrading...to both her and myself.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)I have seen couples where the woman wants "her man" to take on the targets of her aggression. Similarly, some people of either gender see jealousy and possessiveness in their mate as positive traits or signs of a strong relationship (they generally aren't of course but...).
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)conservaphobe
(1,284 posts)You want an SO who can carry an intelligent conversation.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)I note that the survey is about people saying intelligence was predicted to cause problems in relationships, not that it had caused problems in their relationships. Sounds to me like they polled some folks who regurgitated a cultural myth, not that they quantified an actual problem.
deafskeptic
(463 posts)My brother is married to one of the most brilliant women I have ever met.
frogmarch
(12,154 posts)when I was still a kid even too young to date. She said I should never let a boy (or when I became an adult, a man) know if I was smarter than he, or I'd never have a boyfriend or a husband, or I'd at least not be able to keep one for very long.
My perspective is, as it has always been, that women shouldn't play dumb to please men. If a man's ego is such that he feels threatened by being with a smart woman, he should go find himself a republican.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I wasn't hiding my intelligence. That was too bad.
Then I went to college and discovered math and physics and engineering majors!! My kind of guys!!
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)And males since young are taught that its humiliating to be dominated by females. Men that are image conscious and more masculine or macho want to be the powerful / dominant one in the relationship, and find women having advantages over them as "intimidating" and not ideal, especially when there are alternatives out there.
Remember, there's a whole culture out there of misogyny and male tribalism.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)I remember an article in a magazine a few years ago where they talked to these very successful women who made a lot of money and had advanced degrees and top careers. And these women were complaining that they couldn't find any decent guys to have a relationship with. After reading their stories a common theme was clearly obvious....they were severely limiting their options, even perhaps without realizing it. The list of things that they desired to have in a man was unrealistic.
Of course that is an incredibly tiny sample to draw any inferences on. But it's something I see a lot with both women and men who complain they can't find anyone. It's like guys who claim they can't find a girlfriend. Well, the first question I ask is what are they looking for? If they are looking for a super model figure, it's not a surprise they can't find anyone.
If you are a successful woman and you are making $100k a year. You are smart, have a college degree, and your career looks fantastic. Who are looking to date? If you are looking for only men who are as successful or more successful than you, you are going to have a big problem finding anyone because men who do make that much money still cast a wider net for the dating pool. A man making $150k will have no problem dating a woman making only $30k.
Part of this is no doubt due to social stereotypes. And it is certainly true that some men may feel insecure in a relationship where women make more money than they do. But I think there is a lot more that plays into this issue than simply "men hate smart women."
ABC ran a special about something like this concerning black women a few years back... 42% of successful black women are single. And some say the reason is because these women need to lower their standards.
Author and NPR contributor Jimi Izrael joined Harper on the men's side. Izrael is author of "The Denzel Principal," a controversial book that says black women are searching for a prototypical man who only exists in their imaginations.
"Some of them are delusional or some of them are impatient," Izrael said. "The Denzel Principle is just the idea that some women, not all women, have standards for potential mates as to be so high as to find themselves disappointed when looking for men. Because they are looking for this ideal that couldn't possibly exist."
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaceOff/nightline-black-women-single-marriage/story?id=10424979
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)the most successful women I know have husbands who's careers are secondary. A lot of men can't shake the traditional role, even if they are not a go getter career wise.
They view their husbands as extraordinary because they help with cooking and cleaning, and often put work on hold a bit to help with child care. This is very common these days both a my job and in my community. I'm seeing as many Dads with kids at the park as Moms- during work hours. Only a few unfortunate friends are stuck with slackers who think women should do 90% of the housework when they are bringing in 2/3 of the income. Those marriages are not the happy ones. Women are putting up with less and less, and ditching the husband when he is not making a good faith effort.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)And some of it may even be subconscious. It's part of the social programming we get growing up.
For some men out there with a successful woman, he may feel inadequate. And that's not because of anything the woman is doing wrong, but because society tends to frown on the man in that particular situation because he's not fulfilling the role society wants him to have.
On the flip side, a woman who is in the provider role may feel pressure from society that she's failing her children or her family because she's working and not home with them. (Notice how questions asked to female politicians typically involve their children?)
So it goes both ways.
In a perfect world with all other factors equal...marriage is a balancing act, especially after the honeymoon phase. If a wife is bringing home 2/3rds of the income and then does 3/4ths of the domestic stuff too, that's not a balance. And obviously such a relationship is doomed to eventually fail unless the husband starts taking over some of the domestic duties.
But this wasn't really my point. My point was more of that society still likes to grasp on to those traditional gender roles. And some women and men are having trouble letting go, perhaps even subconsciously due to the social pressures. And that's a basis for why some women who are successful may be having trouble finding that perfect mate.
(And obviously this all varies with different parts of the country too. Conservative towns in the south are going to be much more strict when it comes to traditional gender roles compared to more liberal locations.)
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)are bullshit, and I'm glad they are whithering and dying in my neck of the woods. Much of rest of the country will, as usual take another 10-20 years to catch up, but they will.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)but rather, as my divorced aunt said to my mother "I don't need a man to complete me".
Mom just could never accept that an unmarried woman was anything but a failure. She was pushing
her sister to date when her sister was 8 months pregnant and just recently separated; this was
30 years ago.
Mom tried to push me into relationships with men when I divorced, too. I finally stopped her, after
years of this, by saying "Mom, you introduced me to the last one." That was the end of that, thank goodness.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)And when I had my ezine for single women 35 and older - my response was not to lower your standards - but to date "out". And date foreign.
This is very specific to black single women who are very successful and in their 30's and beyond.
Next - was to "date blue and possibly out".
Why? Many of our non black peers turned their noses up at the journey men 10-15-20 years ago.
Now they own their own metal works, plumbing, electrical companies. Never married and no kids - where do they go in the Philly to Boston corridor for their same "experience" and income level?
It's all there to see. The best movie to cause that shift was Something New. It created some great discussions.
That said - I still don't believe that marriage is the be all and end all of a succesful life - and I'm happily married. Go figure! It's a would be nice - so go big ladies. Don't wait for marriage to travel, invest, buy good silverware, china, copper pots and pans, etc etc.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)My wife runs circles around most people. I love my wife's big brain looks fade brains will always be there.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)and i was brought up in the uber-male household. father played college football and coached as well. i played all the 'aggressive' sports like football and wrestling and baseball (i was a pitcher). i was taught to dominate other males... but never was taught to dominate or denigrate women... i was taught to respect and even revere them.
now, could some miss out on that second part and believe they are to dominate everyone? yeah... i guess that is possible.
sP
Lex
(34,108 posts)Does that mean that men perceive smarter women as less apt to adjust their lives so that the husband or his career is always Priority #1?
I still think that there is a perception that a man's career and comfort should be the top priority in their lives, but a woman's shouldn't be or it becomes problematic.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)talk to even the not so smart guys.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]
brooklynite
(94,598 posts)...seems to have worked out so far (35 years).
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)brooklynite
(94,598 posts)Everything we earn is pooled and we divide up the house work.
Maeve
(42,282 posts)"The smartest thing I ever did was marry a woman smarter than me."
Yeah, he's a keeper!
raccoon
(31,111 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)We've been together for decades.
It's been fine.
Thinking about the people in my life, the best relationships are/have been between people who are intellectually similar.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I love smart women, and there are some that we definitely have solid attraction going.
I have also been set up with younger women, whose maturity levels make it hard for me to look at them other than a child.
Stating that, I have befriended the smart women, and in the end pro-actively friend zoned them.
I respect them too much to saddle them with me.
Thus, I remain single.
Not that I am looking any how.
I am happy enough to spoil my nieces and nephews.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)They really mean too smart too put up with their asses!
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)hand up a woman's skirt looking for a library card.
Okay, I lol'd at that.
Response to R B Garr (Reply #28)
Kelvin Mace This message was self-deleted by its author.
tanyev
(42,568 posts)Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)men who were not as smart as I.
Men who were smarter than me were arrogant about it.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)The dipshit morons who want women they can own like chattel?
snooper2
(30,151 posts)They should just call it, how to be a proper green yuppie LOL
bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)Marriage doesn't equal happiness, and the smarter one is, the more obvious that may be.
Of course, having a "failed" marriage myself, I may be biased. If I married again (and I'm not looking, btw), I'd like to think I'd prefer a woman smarter that me, which may also mean a woman more independent, and so less inclined to wish to marry anyway. In any case, if one can't respect a partner, that's problematic. More intelligent women may find the male side of the equation riddled with artificially inflated egos and insecurity.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)I felt like I had some issues on the dating scene because of it. But it could be that I'm ugly or something, instead.
It's hard to say. I do recall getting some negative comments about my pursuing a MS and my ambitions from what I perceived to be more conservatives types. But I don't know if it was a matter of intelligence so much as knowing that I had better things to do than spend every waking moment with them.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Eliminating the unqualified candidates is a good thing. Finding a good mate is not easy anyway.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I find the "low(er) Intelligence/more accommodating ... high(er) intelligence/less accommodating" frame to be highly offensive. There are plenty of highly intelligent women willing to serve the traditional background/supportive role and plenty of women of lesser intelligence that are unwilling.
What this frame comes down to is "successful" males want mates that they think will not compete with them in terms of being the most important "thing" in the relationship and these men think that is a function of intelligence ... it is not!
JI7
(89,252 posts)success could have to do with having a parnter who is willing to adjust what they might want to do to fit into the guy's life. and the guy not having to do the same for the partner .
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"Your job is to lose yourself in me (while supporting yourself working a low(er) status job); my job is to let you lose yourself in me and I will reward you by letting you be with me (and a jewelry)... until I don't." I could go wrong with that arrangement?
I was planning to go back and finish the article; but just can't.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Then started a family and never looked back. She was a James Scholar and literally scored the highest on the accountant test for the state of Illinois the year she graduated from college.
She reads books, raises her kids and is very happy with her life. She is much smarter than her husband who is a u of c mba.
Life is weird.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Then again, I'm not "successful" so maybe that's why. But with such a small sample I doubt this survey means much.
I liked the part about wanting someone who prioritizes their life in a way thats compatible with how you prioritize yours. I don't see anything wrong with that, and don't see what that has to do with intelligence either.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Several posters question whether or not the article is satire, and said posters point to the author's bio. in which she self-describes as a "comedic writer."
It didn't come across as satire to me, but, if the piece were satire, that would change its complexion dramatically.
-Laelth
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Although I'd bet smart men are also less likely to marry.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)but unfortunately she lives thousands of miles away and doesn't know that much English.
drray23
(7,633 posts)Because in my social circle most of my friends are also married with bright intelligent women. I have a phD in physics and my wife as well in another field. I guess many scientists spend so many years as postdoc before getting a tenure that the only social acquaintances we have are other scientists, hence the marriages.
Its only backward people who would feel threatened by an accomplished partner.
I specifically married my wife because she was smart. She's beautiful, intelligent, funny, open minded, and a free thinker. I often wonder why she married me.
chrisa
(4,524 posts)Maybe smarter women don't feel like they need to jump into a relationship / settle for the overwhelming amount of mediocre men in this world.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)makes for a pleasant life. If only we could get all of the national and international dysfunction figured out I would have a serene existence.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)I know this because she tells me EVERYDAY!
derby378
(30,252 posts)I think my IQ is in the 135 range, so at least I could keep her on her toes once in a while.
rockbluff botanist
(61 posts)As a woman of science, every time I read hokum like this I wonder in which decade the author lives and why he is so afraid of women.
My husband says he can't image being married to a moron. What would you talk about. And what about any children? Intelligence is something to pass to your children, not stupidity. Who wants stupid children? Well, I guess that explains Republicans and their progeny. They revel in their ignorance. How strange.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)intelligence. It takes a secure man to be with a woman who is just herself. I have a good job and I make decent money, but I don't have a power career because it doesn't suit my personality. I'm an introvert. I would like to think that there are intelligent, introverted men out there who would be happy with a moderately successful woman that can discuss a variety of subjects.
Am I just ridiculously optimistic?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Pretty sure the premise of the article is nonsense. Poster after poster just in this thread including myself adore wives that are as smart or smarter than them.
The hard part for you won't be your smarts it will be coming out of that she'll long enough to find someone you match up with well. There are plenty of men out there looking for intelligent women.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I don't need someone who is rich or even terribly good looking, but I do need someone that I love to talk to. That is what keeps me interested!
Egnever
(21,506 posts)I went out with many women before I met my wife. Some of them extremely attractive. I got sick of every one of them mostly because we weren't a good match intellectually I think. After a while with all of them the physical attraction eventually wore off and we ended up tiring of each other.
I have been with my wife now almost 20 years now and every single day I look forward to talking to her she keeps me thinking all the time and I adore her for that long after we stopped doing summers adults in the bedroom.
She is still very attractive to me bit it is her brains that have kept me interested in her and I am sure will continue to keep me interested long after we both shrivel up.
In our 20 years together so far she has had three kids and at one point had gained a ton of weight but I never stopped even at her heaviest looking forward to seeing her every day.
I am sure I am not alone in this. There is someone out there looking for a bright woman like you, you just need to give them the opportunity to find you.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is hard to believe any majority of 21st century men really expects someone to prioritize his life over hers. Priorities being compatible would mean equals roughly.
I love it when they address us "ladies" to inform us what we are doing wrong and that heavens! If we don't change, we won't get a husband! Vapors!
I assume a study of what women want will never be thought of interest. Because people who address the "ladies" do not think we are equal.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Marriage still means control to many men and that ring on a woman's finger is really a tether to keep her in line.
Talk equality on anything more than the most trivial level, and we get that "I'm the boss" patriarchal bullshit. Some men are beyond that, but I fear they're still in the minority.
Hopefully, our Millennials will make some good progress.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts). . . she let my Dad think he was always right!
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)They think the man has to dominate the woman. Some of us discuss things with our partner, and reach an agreement that way. It's not that hard. It's about communication and respecting the other's opinion.
I have a J.D., hubby has a BS/MS in Physics. We have 3 degrees each. He said he likes hanging out with lawyers because we have a different approach to thinking. There are two possible answers to a case instead of one. The reasoning is more important than the conclusion.
I think we are about the same in IQ. He doesn't know what his IQ is but he can keep up with me. I scored 145 on a Stanford-Binet when I was five years old, which is 3 SDs above normal and about 1 person in 1000. Mensa is 2 SDs (130) and the top 2%. There are high-IQ clubs that are selective to 3 SDs, like the Triple-9 Society. I think to be a brilliant doctor, you would need to be at about 160 or 4 SDs.
We are both musicians. His idea of fun is writing math papers about books he's reading. Right now it's quarks and subatomic particles. Calculating forces when you smash the shit out of subatomic particles and what the results are.
He doesn't like sports. I don't want to hang out with a guy who is constantly watching football. A lot of smart guys have no interest in sports and I find that to be a plus. There are better things to do with your life than basing your emotional state on whether or not "your team" wins or loses. You have no control over that. Besides, the players don't know you exist. Pretty ridiculous.
I don't want some guy telling me what to think or what to do. The guys who cannot handle an independent woman with an education often get mail-order brides that they can use for a personal slave. And sometimes the girls take the guys for lots of money and go back to their home country. They tend to be right-wing nuts who must dominate their woman at all costs.
Some guys are control freaks and I have learned to avoid them. Nobody is going to dominate me or tell me I can't cut my hair or dress a certain way.
My sister was married to a real beaut who didn't want her to cut her hair, wanted her to have long straight hair parted in the middle, and didn't want her to wear any makeup. He would literally get mad at her and throw a fit. She got her hair cut
and colored, and he had to pout about it. Once I was at her house, and our female friend who is an attorney, a Rice University graduate, and a National Merit Scholar, came over to her house. The three of us sat in the kitchen and talked. He didn't like smart women, so he sat in the den, refused to speak to any of us, and pouted. And they didn't have a living room. It was a show room for crappy British motorcycles he restored (Vincents, Triumphs, BSAs).
longship
(40,416 posts)She is a planetary scientist.
Here is a taste of what she is about, her TED talk about the Cassini mission to Saturn, of which she is a principal scientist:
http://m.
However, in a recent interview with Neil deGrasse Tyson she related a NYTimes interview. When asked why she has never been married, this is what she said to the NYTimes:
abakan
(1,819 posts)Highly intelligent women don't worship at the altar of the male and know bs when they hear it.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)I used to think it was because of my early-childhood abandonment/introversion, committment-phobia & growing up in a dysfunctional alcoholic household related-issues ... but now I see that it's because I'm just too damned smart.
I feel so much better (and more superior).
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Avalux
(35,015 posts)A woman who is self-confident and happy with who she is can be threatening to a man who isn't that way. The adverse is true as well. Some men seem to not understand that I am just fine being by myself, I don't NEED another person there to fill a void and 'fix' me. I don't need a rescuer.
I want a relationship with a man who brings as much to the table as I do, who will enhance my already fantastic life and enjoy my company. Intelligence is part of it, but so is respect and knowing what you want and who you are. That's the ultimate - sharing and building on mutual appreciation and love.