General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumssome women will put up with anything for money
Read this today in regards to the domestic violence showing Ray Rice cold cocking his then fiancée, leaving her unconscious for minutes, and then dropping her on her face while she was knocked out.
I was aghast.
Let me just say what I hear when I see comments like that:
"Hey, she gets paid well for those beatings."
It made me furious. It made me sick to my stomach to read it. I was ashamed for the person and persons who think that way about domestic violence.
Here is some good reading material on why persons stay with abusers, educate thyself before saying something so ignorant as what I read today:
They fear their abusers will become more violentperhaps fatalstalking them if they leave.
Friends and family may not support their decision to leave.
They fear being a single parent with little money.
There are periods of calm, nurturing and love between incidents of violence (see The Cycle of Abuse).
They may be unaware of sources of advocacy and support.
They may be unaware of shelters and other resources that offer safety and support.
The reasons women stay in abusive relationships typically fall into three categories.
Lack of resources
Most abused women have at least one minor child.
Many abused women are not employed outside the home.
Many abused women don't have property that is solely theirs.
In many cases, abusers have cut off access to cash or bank accounts.
Most abused women fear losing joint assets and custody of their children.
Abused women fear a lower standard of living for themselves and their children.
Responses by services and authorities
(See How Professionals Can Respond)
Often, clergy and social workers are trained to "save the family" rather than to stop violence.
Police often treat incidents of domestic violence as mere "disputes" rather than as serious crimes in which one person is physically assaulting another.
Police may try to discourage women from pressing criminal charges.
Attorneys are often reluctant to prosecute cases. Justices rarely assign the maximum sentence or fine possible.
Restraining orders and peace bonds (see Stalking) do little to prevent abusers from repeating their violent patterns of behavior. Sadly, there are too few shelters to keep women safe.
Traditional thinking
Many women don't view divorce as a viable alternative.
Many abused women don't accept the notion of single parenting. They believe a bad father (or in the case of a lesbian relationship, a bad partner) is better than none at all.
Many women are conditioned to believe they are responsible for making their marriage or relationship work; that if the relationship fails, they have failed as women. Society has often taught these women that their worth is measured by their ability to get and keep a man.
Many abused women feel isolated from their families and from society. Isolation is either the result of the abuser's possessiveness or jealousy, or it may be an attempt on the part of the victim to hide signs of abuse from the outside world. Either way, such isolation leads many victims to feel they have nowhere to turn.
Many victims externalize or rationalize the reasons for their abuser's behavior, casting blame of circumstances such as stress, financial hardship, job stress, chemical dependency, etc.
Between violent episodes, there are periods of calm during which the abuser is charming, nurturing, and caring. Those traits which initially attracted him/her to his/her victim resurface and the victim sees her abuser as a loving person, thereby reinforcing her decision to stay.
http://www.womensweb.ca/violence/dv/leave.php
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)Still makes me want to heave to revisit the comment.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5503713
Response to Skidmore (Reply #9)
A-Schwarzenegger This message was self-deleted by its author.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I'd better not go any further than that.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uterus or no it's still my baby too and i will not stfu about it. try reading it helps
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5505672
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Doubling down on TWO anti choice/forced birth posts that were hidden 6-1 - both post #110 and another post from earlier http://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5206465 (provided link due to typo in post #108).
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 9, 2014, 12:30 AM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Post 110 said "force was hyperbole like i can really force someone to give birth". And it was hidden. Why hide this one too? This seems like a stupid alert-fight.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I understand that the party with the uterus carries a more medical burden during pregnancy, and personally I would defer to the woman's position on this. But a person raising the argument that the father is also a stakeholder should not be shouted down. Disagree if you are so moved, but there is no need to be belligerent about it.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's been obvious for some time that this poster should take his opinions somewhere else.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I've seen enough. Misogyny, like racism, has no place on DU. Wish I could do more than hide this post.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't like this apparent effort to get repeated posts hidden on this guy. It stinks. He's expressing his views, it's not offensive, lay off.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
sheshe2
(83,846 posts)alp227
(32,047 posts)Conservatives like to glorify the '50s as a time when families were more intact before, y'know, birth control, the sexual revolution, out of wedlock births, etc. Actually, that's fiction. Leave It to Beaver was just that, a TV show. Sadly, social attitudes being much different in decades past, women who were victims of spousal abuse often had no choice but to stay with their men due to financial dependency (among other factors like stricter divorce laws).
moriah
(8,311 posts)... is the same thing as being a golddigger or a money-grubber has no nugget of truth to it at all.
alp227
(32,047 posts)But I still believe that in the past with fewer economic opportunities for women, women would be less resistant to abusive relationships.
moriah
(8,311 posts).... which if you read the portion of the thread from "leftyohiolib", clarifies for me that's what they're suggesting. Legitimatly worrying about a roof over their head is one thing, that's not at all the way that poster was coming across saying "Some women will put up with anything for money" and then "ok so you know absolutely the reason she's putting up with that and that it's DEFINITELY NOT the money and the prestige."
It's pretty clear that this person is judging, not sympathizing with the plight of women who may feel trapped partially because their abuser has deliberately made it impossible for them to gather the funds to leave.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)The fiction the intact marriage is still here and the dynamics which trap women in abusive relationships are still here.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,845 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,845 posts)...you should present your post as a quote or an excerpt. As it stands, it looks like the part in gray is an excerpt and the text above it is your original thought.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)could you take it somewhere else please.
You care to comment on what I stated I read today.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Of course it might be elsewhere with slightly different wording.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)What you have decided to google was me putting that into context as to what I hear when people say such ignorant things. Why the hell else would they say it.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)at least they're consistent http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5421909
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)And sadly, that link led right here to DU!
Autumn
(45,120 posts)That was ugly.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Did you read why people stay with their abusers. Do you know how common it is.
What makes it so stunning?
Autumn
(45,120 posts)YesI read the article. I was just speaking on my feelings. I could never imagine going on with a wedding to a man who would beat me like that.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Some of them are listed above for you.
Because you say what you think you would or wouldn't do without being in that persons shoes is meaningless... it means nothing.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)Kali
(55,019 posts)Mail Message
On Tue Sep 9, 2014, 12:38 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Am I doing something else beside making comments?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5506763
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This poster IS doing something beside making comments--she is verbally abusing anyone who comments in the thread. Snarky, nasty, uncivil replies. This probably won't get the required HIDES to stop the verbal abuse but the admins need to really see how this poster conducts herself. She bullies people. She doesn't want discussion--she wants obeisance.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 9, 2014, 12:45 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: One of the most provocative posts I have
seen in some time. This should not be allowed.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: alerter needs to stop obsessing about HoF
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I agree with alerter about this persons posts, however this post isn't the one that should be hidden.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I agree that there is a bullying edge here but not sure it's over the line, yet.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)I bet you're wrong more often than you're right.
Meanwhile...
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Snoodles!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)No one is crying, that I can see.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)Glad to see it failed this time. Thanks for posting the alert and results.
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,845 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Did it survive a jury?
It's fucked up if it did.
TBF
(32,084 posts)and I will post the entire thing for you:
Automated Message
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: You alerted on a post which was already alerted
Mail Message
On Mon Sep 8, 2014, 07:59 PM you sent an alert on the following post:
some women will put up with anything for money
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5503713
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
YOUR COMMENTS
Misogynist crap that should not be on DU. Let's see if jury and/or admin will do anything about it.
JURY RESULTS
Someone else already alerted on this post before you alerted on it, and only the first alert was sent to a Jury. A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of the post on Mon Sep 8, 2014, 09:07 AM, and voted 3-4 to keep IT. Please note that even though your alert was not sent to a Jury, it has been forwarded to the Administrators who review all alerts.
Thank you.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)saying much the same thing, only they got a 7-0 hide and a hot n' ready pizza.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)I'll alert on it anyways just to make sure it gets admin's attention, what little good that might do. That's the type of thing that should get you banned, imo. It's absolutely disgusting.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)petronius
(26,603 posts)Thought-provoking - thanks for posting...
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)told the feminists that they are supposed to educate the sexists and misogynists on DU.
An A+++ for you.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)Your job is to be a kind, patient, and a never strident teacher plus, and most importantly, you are also responsible for your students willful failures.
Never forget... you pay for this privilege.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Thank you so much for this.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Many do not want to think someone they love would harm them or they most have made them mad, for a big person to want to beat up someone else is not acceptable.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)They find it extremely uplifting and enjoy the control.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)and dropping her face into concrete?
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)....other person. A person who uses mental violence is almost as bad as one who uses physical violence.
The mental scars just are not as obvious.
I certainly hope that you don't think I find the actions perpetrated on this man's fiancee anything but sickening, disgusting and cause for extreme anger.
His actions make me physical and mentally furious but I also know that this scenario is something that is happening over and over even as I post this answer and that's something I wish I didn't have to think about.
mackerel
(4,412 posts)The Ravens originally spun this to include Janay as the instigator. If TMZ had not posted the full video many would
still continue to believe that she should also be charged with assault. Her reasons for staying are different than listed in the OP. Money was absolutely involved and so were the Ravens. Their star player is worth a lot of money and she needed to play along. Did you see how aloof she was at the original press conference? She may now have a good chance to get an annulment.
tooeyeten
(1,074 posts)When you think that women outnumber men in low pay jobs, Wal-Mart, fast food, hotel maids, domestics, mostly women. Women as a group have no power in the work force, they have no easy access to child care if they are on the edge of poverty. There was a time when women were unionized and could protect jobs, labor issues, not so much anymore, definitely with these extremely low paying jobs. It's good to see the NFL thinks so little of women that the women beaters get a two game suspension while the guy who smokes weed, drives drunk, takes a banned steroid used to get his wife pregnant will be suspended for as much as a whole season.
But wait we just received our NFL catalog for shirts, hats etc which had young good looking women on the cover because women are so very important to the NFL when it comes to selling them stuff. But then the NFL sold a load of crap to the public the last four months that they didn't know nothing about any domestic violence until today when that TMZ showed up and blew the NFL's freaking cover. Women only count with the NFL billionaires when they want women to give them more money.
treestar
(82,383 posts)father issue to that point. Than an abusive father is better than none. SMH.
tavernier
(12,396 posts)I can't walk in another woman's shoes. I know I would walk away if I was beaten; I'm pretty sure I could kill if my child was threatened. But if I was poor without any other means of support, perhaps I'd stay? I don't think so, since I'm a nurse and can earn a living, but many don't have that option.
I guess what I really don't understand is a woman with a career and money who will allow herself to be victimized. That has to go way deep into her childhood. I suspect she had been abused long before Mr. Wonderful entered her life.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)and there's no recourse. It's not a TOS violation after all.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)TBF
(32,084 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)crickets
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Paladin
(28,269 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)There are always going to be assholes that lash out,...but to have troglodytes who cheer it on?
niyad
(113,513 posts)on this website.
BainsBane
(53,041 posts)because no way on earth I will subject myself to those kinds of responses. I looked in that thread, saw that comment you reference in the OP, and have trashed the other threads. I only looked at this one because I trust you. There is only so much a person can take. The comment was hurtful to those of us who have survived abusive relationships, as I have no doubt it was intended to be. That level of cruelty and toleration for abuse of women is unforgivable. Some will blame women for their own rape, their own battery, threats against them, for daring to exercise free speech, and for even living. Injustice and violence exists because such people not only allow it, but blame the victims.
And how is that that some can go on about war with no awareness that their tolerance for violence against women is the same pathological impulse that leads to violence and injustice at the international level? We live in a violent world because people some actively work to maintain and excuse a culture of violence.
IkeRepublican
(406 posts)And that's a fact, jack.
Tuck Choad on Meet The Press, for instance.
Granted, that's not the same as physical abuse, but there is no doubt that there are plenty of individuals who will throw their instincts to the wind if they believe there's gold at the end of the rainbow.
And I don't buy that such behavior comes from being abused. That's too easy, accepted as gospel and suck uppish. I guarantee you all of us individually know or have known - not unknown knowns (derp) - at least one person who came from a loving home and constantly goes for absolute pieces of shit - with or without the promise of money.
It's sad, disgusting and pathetic...but, it does happen, unfortunately.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I've only been on sporadically today, but everytime I open a Rice thread my blood pressure goes up.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Which is why, when our resident MRAs peddle that bullshit, it should be met with scorn
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)The poor abuser is damaged and maybe only I can fix him.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Abusers are capable of making you feel completely empty of self, unable to function.
If you're in an abusive relationship seek help. There are many good shelters and therapists out there willing to help. Make a plan, then get out.
liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)There is a lot of information about domestic violence out there, and you've provided even more. If only some people were willing to access it using the effort they spend loudly farting out whatever misconstrued, microscopic bits and pieces of the vastly larger picture that their tiny, underutilized minds seem incapable of grasping. Enough is enough. Willfully and arrogantly stupid, selfish people are becoming unbearably tiresome. They're everywhere these days, though, and never miss a chance to take a large, smelly dump on the objects of their scorn, which is everything extending out from the tip of their own noses. Is it so hard to put oneself in another's shoes and STFU, because one will never know exactly what another person is going through?
greatlaurel
(2,004 posts)Thanks.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)..... that NFL paycheck, instead of leaving him after physically abusing her. "
Ugh, way to miss the point.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Can you post the entire results?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)She married him because she is an idiot.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025507994
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
YOUR COMMENTS
Denying this woman is battered is disgusting, and way more stupid than this woman is. Ignorance and hatred. Pls lock this.
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Sep 9, 2014, 11:06 AM, and voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT ALONE.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I would ordinary vote to lock, but the OP needs to hear the arguments presented as to why calling the woman an "idiot" negates her own argument of how complex this is. It is a discussion that should be held in the thread.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I agree the word idiot should be removed and it's a bit controversial but it's not hide worthy.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's an opinion that is not hide-worthy. I don't see where anyone denied her being a battered woman. We'll see how strong their love is if she leaves him when he's not bringing in that NFL paycheck, instead of leaving him after physically abusing her. I am not blaming the victim; but she did marry him after he knocked her unconscious.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter: People get to state their opinion. You don't get to hide it just because you don't like it.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)That's a shame. With all the push-back in that thread, it takes a pretty stubborn person to leave that word in the subject line.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Also proud of being outspoken and opinionated and someone who stands up for what I believe in, even when other people don't agree with me.
But I am going to leave the rest of what you are implying to the other thread where it belongs.
Let this be another kick to *this* thread, which I hope people read.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)And for the record, I did NOT deny that the woman is battered. I also did not suggest the behavior was acceptable.
Gratuitous kick to this thread in replying to you.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)Or what they think is love.
They feel like they are so hopeless and cannot survive on their own two feet that they'll put up with the occasional 'slapping around' and other types of abuse to know that someone 'loves' them.
It's not just about the money.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Sure women lack financial resources, due to a multitude of reasons, most emanating from the control of their abuser, and it effects their decision to stay.
However, they don't stay in abusive relationships because they are being paid to do so.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)I heard something similar in a restaurant last night. Two business men at a table behind us said that she was paid well for that smack to the face then began to laugh. My husband had to restrain me from confronting them. How smug. I honestly think we are going backward rather than forward. This "mad men" mentality is truly scary!
Mike Nelson
(9,961 posts)...the celebrity factor. I know someone who testified against a very popular pop star. This person receives hate mail almost daily and will likely receive hate mail and death threats for the rest of his life.