She and her husband are a unit, who view the media and outsiders as interfering in their life. This is the same thing the cops deal with when they are called to a domestic complaint.

She cannot put the blame where it belongs. And there are probably others in their inner circle blaming her for Rice's significant financial loss.

that horrific beating.

That said - domestic violence must not be tolerated by institutions.

interesting how many assumed them knowing the truth of it was going to be that point. That was a shock for us though, not her.

in every way. And she was no doubt under tremendous pressure from him and the NFL to believe him and go through with the wedding.

she doesn't need us questioning why she stays. She needs our understanding and hopefully it will be the support, love and kindness of others in her life that will help her get through and leave this brute.

I, for one, do not blame her. I understand enough about domestic violence to know that she is locked in this vicious cycle herself, brought on by her abuser, not her.

It's a good question for society in general to examine, especially professionals. Everything I've heard, including from professionals, is too facile, by half.

amongst battered intimate partners.

If the NFL and Ravens had done their job a few months back he still would have been unemployed, just sooner.

Pretty sure Rice had a few things to say to her after he was handed his walking papers which is why she's lashing out.

I have seen numerous cases like this and learned long ago that getting involved in an attempt to help the women or man involved always ended up having both parties angry with me and accusing me of interfering.. This is the reason I would think that anyone having been through this experience hesitates to get involved at all..Still take time to call the police but rarely have I seen any of it go much further than that..

A lot of police departments now go with prosecution based on evidence of injury rather than whether or not the woman/man ( I have seen men being victims of abuse also) will press charges

cooperate or *can't* cooperate.

A couple where the husband actually threw his wife out of a moving car at speeds in excess of 40MPH, put her in hospital with some pretty serious injuries, she left the hospital with him, no charges were filed.

Seriously, I will never understand what prompts a woman to stay in an abusive relationship.

I've read plenty and I still don't understand why.

Women and men for that matter live the life mostly of what they know or are used to.....no change, just older. JMHO

accepted into a pretrial intervention program that allowed him to avoid jail time and could have led to the charge being purged from his record.

That is unbelievable to me.

This is not something new. It is part or the syndrome. My heart goes out to her. That is why there are laws on the books where a womans testimony is not needed to prosecute. Our society has realized this long ago.

Also, this goes further than just this instance, it was a failure on the part of the police, prosecutors and the NFL for trying to cover this up.

This type treatment meted out by those in charge, sadly happens to many abused women. The story goes way beyond Janay and Ray Rice.

We have a real sickness in this society.

Said she 'knew that voice, because it was her voice', and that she defended her abusive partner up until the moment he stuck a knife in her back as she was running from him. (I assume she means literally.)

There's a lot of pressure from various parts of society to 'hide' dysfunction, to be 'ashamed' that someone is mistreating you. Hiding problems never fixes the problem.

Please don't judge her unless you understand what it means to be HER.

It's about individual posters building up their bona fides and street cred. That's why posters have latched onto
that woman's post with tongue-clucking fury, despite knowing exactly one thing about her and her marriage.

How do I know? Well, there is a new thread that consists of nothing other than a reference to The Burning Bed.

This post itself will almost certainly draw out claims that I'm "defending Ray Rice" or somehow advocating
domestic violence. Because SOMEHOW in all of this anti-misogynist chatter, it is suddenly impossible for a
woman to decide anything for herself once she's been beaten. It CANNOT POSSIBLY be that Ray Rice made
a horrible mistake for which he should be in prison and out of the NFL, yet his wife can survey her own
situation and decide that she'll stay. She's too dumb to make that decision, I suppose. Or greedy: we also
hear from the tongue-cluckers that she's just a gold-digger. Which is in NO WAY misogynistic. No, not at ALL.

Here's what I learned from DU: women are equals, capable of anything and everything, utterly self-reliant and
in control. Until, of course, she gets hit, and then she's FAIR GAME FOR CRITICISM. How can she make her own
choices? SHE'S BEEN HIT! How can she stand by someone who had .000000000001% of her relationship to that man
on film? HE HIT HER! BY GODDESS, DOESN'T THAT WOMAN KNOW THAT WE AREN'T FINISHED SAVAGING THAT MAN
YET? SHE SHOULD SHUT THE FUCK UP UNTIL WE'RE DONE WITH HIM. NOW IS NO TIME FOR ANYONE TO DEFEND THAT
MONSTER, ESPECIALLY HIS VICTIM, BECAUSE WE KNOW HIM BETTER THAN SHE EVER WILL.

The point is that there is a not-so-subtle and hypocritical misogyny in dismissing this woman out of hand, as many
posters are doing. And because DU's favorite mode in times like these is that of binary thinking, I will clarify, lest
I find myself in the DU stocks next to Rice and Palmer:

Ray Rice should be in prison.
Ray Rice should never play in the NFL again.
Mrs. Rice should receive whatever legal, emotional, parenting, and financial assistance she can get.

For what you described as "It CANNOT POSSIBLY be that Ray Rice made a horrible mistake"?

Because I need my bona fides. I need everyone
to see that however outraged you are, I'm more outraged.

I especially like how in some cases we aren't allowed to "tell people what their experience is," but sometimes we are. In this woman's case we wouldn't be able to comment on what she says about her experience as a black person, or her experience as a female, but it's OK to be all over her experience as a woman hit in an elevator. Guess that's an experience she isn't allowed to "own."

Fascinating.

You took away the wrong lessons.

People are indeed free to make choices. And sometimes, when you make choices, you make the wrong choice, especially if you're doing it under various pressures from other people or circumstances. Heck, sometimes I don't recognize a wrong choice I made until a decade or more later.

And for a lot of us, this isn't our first rodeo. Many people who post have been victims of partner abuse. Others of us have known multiple such victims during our lives. And while Rice might turn out to be that 'special snowflake', who never abused his partner before, and never will again, the statistics are strongly against that actually being the case. Much more likely is that she will wind up being abused further, maybe even murdered by him in the future. Not because 'we know Rice' better than she does, but simply because we actually understand the statistics and 'life cycle' of abuse.

So no, the real point is that there is a 'not so subtle' misogyny in pretending that other people are being misogynistic when they point out that she likely made a mistake that will continue to hurt her in future. It's a lot like calling people who point out racism racist. And then tacking on the obligatory 'Oh, but I've got a black friend' at the end of a post to try and further deflect from what's going on.

People are ALL OVER this woman because she isn't acting the way they demand she act. In reality, life is complicated, as are relationships and people. People on this site are calling her a gold digger and an idiot. All they know about this woman is that she is Ray Rice's victim. That alone does not suffice to demand that she follow some official, approved workflow.

I think she should leave him, but what I really mean is that were it my decision to make, I would leave. But that's me. I am not her. And you know what? Neither are you. Maybe she has family, pastoral counseling, non-pastoral counseling, and other support that you don't know about, and maybe this support is helping her through what MIGHT just be a transitional period for her. OR, maybe she has the gall and temerity to want to see her marriage succeed and is all out of fucks to give what anyone else thinks. Including, for example, you.

I stand by my charge of misogyny to anyone who disparages this woman for not making the choices they require she make, when they require she make them.

but just can't quit this place or quit complaining about other DUers! Sad little gatekeepers, are they.

My what a sad little gatekeeper you are, seems you just HATE this place and the people here...but love posting how shitty other posters are while yourself...no doubt some gold standard. You, the perfect poster of all things!

Well at least you didn't insult an entire Continent this time! I guess that is an improvement.

Seriously, that is one sad post trying to defend domestic violence.

Since you were alerted on...

On Tue Sep 9, 2014, 03:09 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

No doubt! We should just shut down DU and not talk about anything at all!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5510021

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

I am sick to death of being accused of defending domestic violence. This time I'm not having it.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 9, 2014, 03:43 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: How many times was this person "accused of defending domestic violence"? If more than once - the person needs to be "accused" again and again.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

The only thing I get from this is that this woman needs help in every sense of the word. A very sad situation.

Kind of seems as if she wants to be left alone, yet everyone kind of ignored that part and continued to voice their opinions the bottom-line is even if they have overcome their issues the media sees this as a ratings goldmine, and some people have fallen for it. TMZ is a junk web site just like WSHH; give these people the personal space, if you want to protest Domestic Violence then Boycott the PPV may weather fight? Ladies tell your husband’s not buy the fight, that would strike a blow for DV awareness IMO.

Snip
 

The cycle of abuse has four phases:

 

Build-up: 
Stress builds up in the abuse

The cycle begins with some stress (ex: job, money or bills). The stress causes the abuser to feel powerless. The abuser chooses to act out toward a spouse or partner through name-calling, insults and accusations. As the tension builds, victims try to calm the abusers and try to guess ways to meet all their needs.  The tension becomes unbearable. At the stage, victims feel like they have to be extra careful and alert around the abuser. It’s like walking on eggshells

 

Act Out:
Tension leads to violence

The tension that builds up in the abuser leads to severe verbal abuse, threats or a violent physical or sexual attack.It may happen once – but usually happens over and over.Abuse is always on purpose – it is never an accident. Abusers believe they need to hurt or humiliate their victims so they can feel they have the power and control in the relationship.

 

Rationalize/Justify:
Abusers blame others, rationalize their actions

Once they’ve committed the violent act, abusers will often blame others or use excuses to justify their actions. For example, the abuser might tell the victim: “you have been driving me crazy lately. It’s your fault this happened!” Or, he/she may make light of the violence that occurred: “I barely touched you. You’re making a big deal out of nothing!”These are defenses used to turn the blame away from abusers and make them feel better about themselves. Abusers then try to convince their victims that the abuser’s version of the truth is what really happened. Often, because they feel powerless to object, victims begin to doubt their own experience. They start to believe the incident really happened the way the abuser remembers it.
Snip
More at link.
http://www.gov.mb.ca/fs/fvpp/cycle.html

Thanks for posting this, perfect.

And in Rice's case, perhaps we need a second "circle" that mimics the first circle, except that where the first circle reads "Domestic abuse is re-inforced by social beliefs that give men the right to dominate women,"
the second circle would read "Doemstic abuse is re-inforced by social beliefs that allow men to have a well paid, and glamourous career -- a career that is mostly spent physically injuring other players, and also being physically injured by them."

Time after time, the one weekend in the year where more domestic abuse calls are made is during the SuperBowl Sunday weekend! Almost as if the men who couldn't make the team can prove to themselves that they too can abuse someone by inflicting physical abuse.

She will divorce him soon.........................unless he kills her first.

is an odd phrase. It might help her to listen to herself. He's the one who took the happiness away. If losing his job is what takes that away, he's the one that caused it, not whoever she is addressing.

No one needed to see this video. No one. This could have been kept private. The NFL & Ravens organization could have reviewed this without the media and public needing to see this.

This woman had to live this awful thing all over again; all the accusations, all the nastiness, all the blaming etc. We don't need to see everything. Contrary to popular belief they are entitled to their privacy. She's right--it's THEIR life. People need to get their own and stop passing judgment on theirs.

You can bring this issue to light without having to humiliate her over and over again. It's done every day.

Like vultures over a dead carcass. Sickening.

I think this helps to show people the absolute brutality of what occurred. So many times there is nothing but a womans word.

This should have been prosecuted. It is a crime against society, not just Janay Rice. What I mean by this is it is also a brutal reality how these things are often swept under the rug by those in power who have the tools and responsibility to deal with this. A really disturbing view of how these things are handled has come into focus, will hopefully help those who have been abused be taken more seriously by police, prosecutors, etc.

but I don't see why people need to see it. Do we need to see children being abused? Do we need to see rapes to know the brutality? A written description would have sufficed. I'm certainly not suggesting it be swept under the rug.

Respectfully, she's being victimized over and over again. She's entitled to her privacy. Not to have probably one of the worst if not the worst day of her life on blast for the whole world to see.

Not too mention I'd bet good money that someone was paid handsomely for that video. Sickening.

The question probably should be "Was it APPROPRIATELY prosecuted?," not "Was it prosecuted?"

Per the terms of his sentence he has to do therapy/counseling and stay out of trouble, and then his slate is wiped clean.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2014/09/ray_rice_video_prosecutors_ofifice_says_decision_was_correct_not_seek_jail_time_for_rice.html

Is this a "good" call by the prosecutor? It doesn't look that way to anyone watching the elevator video, but to say he was not "prosecuted" is not factually accurate.

I don't think most domestic violence cases are prosecuted properly.

My sister in law was married to a man that beat her all the time. Time and again nothing happened. Finally when he'd beat her in the head and her injuries were considered severe enough he did 6 months. She wasn't always cooperative with the cops and prosecutor...she did try and protect the piece of shit. But there was far too many times where the evidence was all over her face and body.

This is my husband's sister. Her family was there for her, all of us offered to let her and the kids stay with us to get away. She stayed because she had very little self esteem and didn't think she could do any better. Finally after he tossed her son out of a moving car she left him--sort of.

Domestic violence is horrible. I don't believe the penalties are harsh enough.

being highlighted.

I hope, for her sake, that at least the treatment/therapy program he is in is vigorous. There's no walking this sentence back and getting a second bite.

The whole world gets to see her humiliation over and over again. I didn't need to see it. I'm sorry for her in so many ways, and I refuse to judge her for her actions, or jump to conclusions about her character, such as she's with him for the money. Who can possibly know that? It could be that she loves him. Who can know that either?

And that it doesn't happen just to the poor or uneducated. Woman of the rich and famous can also be victims.

that were well off couldn't be victims.

that Rice got off too easy and that possibly, there was some sort of cover-up going on. It's sad that Palmer-Rice has to see this plastered all over but it isn't anyone's fault but her now husband for doing it in the first place. The blame isn't the media, it isn't people who are commenting on it, it is Ray Rice's fault for punching her.

If the video was never shown, there would be plenty of people thinking the only thing Rice did was man-handle a drunken woman.

ensued, so did everyone else. Only way for accountability to happen.

I don't want anything hidden. I want him held accountable.

What I disagree with is the video. She's entitled to her privacy and not to be judged and tried in the media or on message boards. She's the victim. I find it strange that the people who are yelling the loudest about her being the victim have no problem with re-victimizing her over and over with this video. Metaphorically punching her in the face again and again....

The video is not needed. It could have been a written description.

When they entered the elevator they appeared to be having a disagreement. After a few minutes Rice punched Janay so hard that she fell hitting her head on the rail in the elevator car which left her unconscious for at least a minute and half.

Something like that. Do we really need to see her being punched? No I don't think so.

successfully. Two-game suspension with the Ravens implying she was to blame.

The only reason anything approaching accountability happened is because of the video being available for the whole world to see and judge.

Everyone with any kind of responsibility covered this up and misrepresented what actually happened.

If the video doesn't get leaked, Ray Rice is on the field receiving thunderous applause by the fall equinox.

The level of violence in the second video HAD to be revealed so the public can see with its own eyes what the league was trying to cover up...

It also needed to be show to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Janay didn't slip, trip, fall, or only had herself to blame for the incident...(and up until yesterday, there were countless football fans still pushing that bullshit months later)

a detailed description of what happened would have sufficed for me. I didn't *need* to see a woman punched in the face. But hey that's just me. If you *needed* to see it then you got what you needed.

I'm sure it does wonders for her every time she turns on the tv or goes online. Nothing like reliving that over and over and over and over.....all while people decide what's best for you/what should have done/what you should be doing from the comfort of their homes/tv shows.

But showing it was necessary to shatter the web of lies that had been woven up to this point -- Especially since Rice got off so light at first...If Rice had gotten a sufficiently harsh punishment the first time around, then there is no "scandal" with the second video and I'd have been more inclined to agree with you...

I get your general point -- My mother isn't watching it either...

As for Mrs. Rice, she was happy for the media attention back when she was playing the role of the faithful wife during hubby's PR-image forgiveness/rehabilitation tour and helping the NFL promote their big lie...So she can't have it both ways...

I don't know what to say about the fact that you want/need to see a woman punched in the face.


See what I did there. How's that feel? Do you like that twist to what you said? So much fun throwing out accusatory one liners.

In case it get's alerted on this is what I said....VERY far from covering it up.




And this:




I have been very clear that I DON'T want it covered up and that he should have had a harsh(er) sentence. My concern with the video is that it re-victimizes Janay Rice. Yeah, I give a shit about the impact on her. But like I said it's so much more fun to throw out a condescending accusatory one liner....even if it is dishonest.

We needed to see this for the same reasons we need to see video of war and police brutality. It's too easy for humans to be willfully ignorant of the ugly truth until they see it with their own eyes.

That's a problem that doesn't get the attention it needs. Just wondering where we draw the line in all this. Wondering where the victims' rights are in all this. Where the 'we' needs supersede the victims rights to privacy? How long do we subject them to the 'we' judgment? How many times do they have to be re-victimized before 'we' think it's enough?

I'm sorry I just don't think 'we' need to see her dehumanized like that. She doesn't need to continue seeing that. How long till she can turn on the tv again without seeing that? Where are her rights in all this? The pain and damage inflicted on her is ok for the greater good?


edited to add: I do think it should have been shown to the proper authorities and any punishments that could be handed down should be. We can't change the punishment already handed out-skimpy as it was. He can't be tried again so why is she being subjected to this?

I hope they are still in it and find happiness in their relationship. I hope Ray is going to be the man she wants to think he is. I have no harsh words for the victim. Only hope the world gets better for her soon.

for her but it does give us the opportunity to talk about the very real problem of domestic violence. It also gives us the opportunity to talk about implementing a zero-tolerance policy about what domestic abusers get away with. It's been brought up several times that had Rice not been in the NFL, it's likely he'd be sitting in jail right now instead of the unemployment line.

I gave her the benefit of the doubt before this.

I wasn't an idiot either. I didn't think I was worthy of being treated with respect, and gave my power away for 'security' as she's done. Once you're in it, once you've convinced yourself you love that person, and he's nice sometimes, and he provides for a good life....there are all kinds of reasons, and in her mind they make perfect sense. She's making bad decisions because she thinks she doesn't deserve better. She needs help, not insults. She's lashing out now because their family is in crisis mode - he's lost his job. She doesn't know if he'll take it out on her and she's going to do and say anything to keep him pacified. Horrific.

I hope she will find the strength to leave.

because of all the people judging her for marrying him?

And for the whole world to know what a monster you married.

This quote is really disturbing:

"To take something away from the man I love that he has worked his ass off for all his life just to gain ratings is horrific..."

She refuses to place the blame where it belongs--on Rice himself and instead conveniently blames "the media." Come on. How about the fact that what he did to her is just plain wrong? However, I'd take the NFL a bit more seriously if the other 2 known domestic abusers in the NFL weren't suiting up for games this weekend. They're demonizing Rice when it is a larger problem. We'll see just how seriously the league takes this issue in the days & weeks to come.

Maybe it's an issue of pride to keep her family together. It's a sensitive issue in the black community to keep fathers with their children due to the number of fatherless children. Maybe, like you say, it is the money. Maybe she thinks she really loves him.

At some point the child will become traumatized watching her father beat up her mother. The whole thing is sad.

She took me and we never went back.
That's how you do it.

I'm sorry to hear that you had to go through that.

get easier for women to get away from men like this.

for her child. Lots of parents who shouldn't be together stay together out of a misplaced concern for their children.

No doubt his physical abuse comes attached with emotional and mental abuse as well.

Victims often do that. Stockholm syndrome.

But it's their life and not mine so I have nothing more to say.

a 35 to 50 million dollar contract. People can get blinded by the money, note she mentioned that cue about his career and he "worked his ass off", you dont really think that about a really good janitor or a really good sales rep....fortune and glory.

This could have been any woman. Maybe the Law is concerned about whether she presses charges or not but I'm not. But I believe I'm with the great majority. This isn't about her.

What?

She is upset that the media has the audacity to comment on the fact that her public figure husband is a violent criminal.