Scary shit.

K/R

cult like behaviour. Also reminds me of the GOP. And people from my past.

Captures the awfulness for everyone of pathological narcissism. And take it from me, it can be painful to try to treat someone with the disorder.

and offered up public personalities in the same way a cheap astrologer offers them up.

I have had a narcissist in my life. These people are completely unable to recognize the reality that other people have their own separate feelings. In particular they have no empathy for their family members, who they view as mere extensions of themselves. They treat them as if they were little chess pieces, moving around the chess board that they control.

It is very eerie when you finally realize that they aren't being deliberately negating. In a profound way, they just can't see you as a separate person.

When I finally realized what was happening, I actually could forgive the person. I realized that the narcissist wasn't deliberately trying to hurt family members. He just couldn't conceive of the fact that they had their own individual feelings that weren't the same as his. He was totally locked inside his own point of view.

Healthy narcissism, according to any psychological or psychoanalytic text is, in infancy and early life (and hopefully throughout life) a healthy sense of one's own value and the desire to be seen and appreciated as a wonderful creature. Look at any healthy three year old who struts around in dress-up saying "I'm the QUEEN!" or stark naked saying "Look at ME!" and you see that wonderful, healthy sense of being special.

Then, sometimes it goes wrong, either through trauma or abuse or sometimes for an inexplicable reason, and the person begins to believe just the opposite. All of us experience it to a degree as we discover we're just ordinary people with whatever talents and deficits we have, and learn empathy for other ordinary people who have gone through the same disappointments. But to have it so wounded that your sense of self is literally unbearable causes the person to build up defenses against it, sometimes so strong that they are all that they can show the world. The need to be assured that they are not just regular people but powerful, superior, beautiful, whatever they've latched onto is so strong that everyone else is just a supporting player in that fantasy. At its worst people are reduced to the level of functions, no more than a hand or foot. And the rage that the pathological narcissist can feel at someone daring to be a real person and not just there to support the defense is as deep as it would be if his hand suddenly began acting on its own.

Clinton is wounded, and I expect he got into trouble with women and in other areas because of it, but he's also used it to do a lot of good, as have considerable numbers of others. Narcissistic people are very useful, as with politicians, sports figures, entertainers, etc. but the bad behaviors we see from them sometimes is the dark side of the very charismatic, workaholic, obsessive behaviors we groom for our own good and entertainment. Which, ironically, is narcissistic too.

This article was an interview of someone who wrote a book on the topic......
Not the actual book! The author was responding to questions about the book from the
interviewer. Try reading the book before you go all "she doesn't know what she is talking about
because she didn't say this or that about the topic".

... and in the end it sounds like he wants to "excuse" the narcissist's behavior (wrong word maybe) as some kind of normal. I wouldn't buy this book. I'd go borrow it from the library if I wanted to read it. Now, it could be just the writing of the author of the article. Too bad, because based on this article, allot of people aren't going to want to read the book. IMHO.

People have reasons that make some kind of sense to them for all kinds of behavior that repels many of us. It doesn't excuse it, and it doesn't mean you have to put up with it.

It's so easy to just throw stones, to react to either the positive or negative aspects without recognizing that it's an actual disorder that comes out of a world of hurt. It doesn't cover everything, like the difference between narcissistic wounds and pathological narcissism, but it's a start.

which is the hallmark of this personality disorder. They are incapable of viewing loved ones as separate people. Family members are all just extensions of themselves -- either they reflect a positive image on the narcissist or they must be ignored -- or crushed.

Speaking of extensions of themselves, I'm sure the narcissist's kids must feel like they're dogs trained to do tricks for the gratification of the narcissist. Dunno about spouses.

The wife and children are trophies -- beautiful, talented, brilliant accessories -- or worthless.

I liked the fact that they acknowledged that we all have healthy narcissism and things can go very wrong. It didn't cover primary or secondary narcissism either but you can't get everything. It opened up a discussion that, if people don't run off into their corners and lob grenades, gives us a chance at greater understanding. That can be very helpful if people who've been harmed by another's narcissism can begin to think about it as a real disorder and not only something to be enraged about. This is NOT to diminish the harm done, btw.

with one end of the spectrum, though the diagnosable disorder is at the other extreme.

Everyone should have a healthy degree of narcissism, and many people might have narcissistic traits, but few have the profound lack of empathy of the malignant narcissist.

Show me a family with 1 or more such a person, and I'll show you a train wreck of a family

That doesn't mean they're easy to be around and that in lots and lots of cases the only things you can do are either set strict boundaries or run like mad. But it doesn't mean they're not defending against unimaginable pain with that disorder.

AND, as I said earlier, it's a continuum, from healthy narcissism to wounded narcissism to secondary narcissism to outright narcissistic personality disorder, and there's a lot of territory in there.

and throws the term around even while beginning by saying it's used too much.

people involved with narcissistic family members. Lots of good information here:

www.house-of-mirrors.blogspot.com

It helped me to understand and deal with a couple of family members, as well as that sociopath I used to work for.

I finally understand why a friend of mine gave me the book People of the Lie many years ago. She had heard stories about a family member and even met that family member. The problem was that I wasn't quite ready to face the truth then.

I think one or more members of my family may have been malignants.

I seem to make friends with people from similar families.