General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSchool System Was Never Broken Until The Reagan Devil And GOP Broke It.
I went to school in the 50's and 60's and it worked just fine. It was not perfect but it worked. We put a man on the moon with slide rules and a 64K computer. Now we depend on the Russians to get to a space station. The moon program was government and private enterprise at its best. And the engineers were American engineers.
I had a great education that included critical thinking and a desire to keep learning for a lifetime. Now we have allowed billionaires like the Kochs to destroy our system because of pathological greed.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)They would beg to differ.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)in the 60's and 70's, and i went to college and grad school. i went to an excellent elementary school though, and my parents stressed getting a good education.
tenderfoot
(8,437 posts)I beg to differ.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)I'm with you, TheMastersNemesis.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)FlatStanley
(327 posts)Saint Ronnie came in demonizing the Department of Education and the federal government, not to mention unions and union workers.
The Republicans and the corporate media whores have been pushing the meme ever since.
Sadly a segment of the Democratic Party has joined in, along with their supporters both here and in the public at large.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)The media has largely been pushing against the Dems and their message for a long time. If you look around so much media coddles the GOP and undercuts the Dems. Try to get on the national media as a liberal Dem and you are under attack and fiercely questioned or outnumbers by radical conservatives or GOPPERS.
So many GOP memes are repeated and repeated across the nation. A GOPPER can be a known serial killer and the media will coddle them. A Dem can get a hang nail and they are vilified 24/7. The best example is the make up of the panel and all the guests on the Sunday morning shows. If you listen there might be really one progressive. The rest are shade of RW conservatives. And the moderate always seems to steer right. They also ignore significant news.
I am old enough to remember a media that was at least reporting the news and facts. Now it is all fiction and opinion.
FlatStanley
(327 posts)calimary
(81,304 posts)in his inauguration speech from which we get the "lovely" soundbite about - government BEING the problem. And that cutesy crap about "the nine most terrifying words in the English language" - 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'." What a schmuck! What incredible damage that bastard did to our country, our society, our culture - the works. And he made sure it was always wrapped up all pretty and sparkly and sweet-tasting. Til some realized too late that the nice sparkly candy-colored "sugar" he'd been providing them to sprinkle all over their food at every meal was actually arsenic.
SunSeeker
(51,564 posts)FlatStanley
(327 posts)This is why Governor Brownback's epic fail in Kansas is so important and under reported.
FlatStanley
(327 posts)jmowreader
(50,559 posts)I kinda wish I was a fire chief in a large, Republican-controlled city: I would paint "we're from the government and we're here to help" on every piece of apparatus I had at my disposal. In nice big letters so people couldn't miss it.
calimary
(81,304 posts)Because that's the kind of thing we're gonna have to do to purge this nation of the reagan affliction. I swear he's a veritable political equivalent of the ebola virus. We're going to have to re-educate America. We've been battered and brainwashed by three to four DECADES of concentrated shit by the extreme wrong wing. Study "The Powell Memo."
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/powell_memo_lewis/
THAT is what we have to counter-act.
cali
(114,904 posts)in the 50s and 60s is hardly evidence.
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)I first attended in 1960. The first day of class the school gave out, books, paper, pencils, composition books, whatever you needed to complete the work. During the year, as assignments were given, supplies to complete them were handed out, to everyone, I was not living in poverty. There were art and music classes. My parents did have to rent my clarinet (in third grade we started music for band), otherwise everything was handed out.
There was vocational ed., but there was also what would easily pass as AP, as college bound seniors were generally taking calculus II before graduation.
Sure, it was the 1960s, so girls were not allowed to wear pants (only dresses), and there was very little diversity.
My experience was that schools were far better funded and resourced back then.
Of course in 1966 I moved south. A different story for sure, schools were poorly funded even in the wealthy mostly white enclaves, and it only got worse once integration was required because the politics were all about white flight to private schools and doing everything they could to deny tax funds for bussing and integration.
So I would say the schools were fine, perhaps even better in various places around the country, but clearly far far worse in the deep south, perhaps so in inner cities as well.
barbtries
(28,798 posts)i really believe that is the bottom line.
DrBulldog
(841 posts)... you could have been my twin brother/sister. Same life experience, same opinion, same great advanced education that I achieved while incurring practically zero debt - as most of us did. Our generation had the highest SAT scores in history and the achieved the most progressive social and legal advances ever in our nation. Now all of that has been torn down by 35 years of Reagan doctrine and its radical offspring.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)And at times a Democratic Senate. How on Earth was he able to do that. And now almost 30 years later and 16 years of Democratic Presidents and various times Democratic Senate and House and heck really recently a super majoritySenate for 7 months and yet they kept all of Reagan's many issues. I just don't understand that at all. Both Clinton and Obama will have the Presidency as long as Reagan. It does not make sense to me going back 30 years when everything could have been changed easily by two Democratic Presidents.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)And in-particular, under RWR, the whole war on education was begun by none other than William Bennett. He was the Education Sec from Feb 1985 - Sep 1988. I remember my head almost exploding upon hearing him say he wanted to abolish the Education Dept. Click on this link and scroll down to "Political Viewpoints" and see for yourself who the godfather of school privatization was and really, what has happened to our school system since then:
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Bennett
I hate this self-righteous SOB.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)MiniMe
(21,716 posts)So they are trying to keep people stupid and change the curriculum to dumb things down and change history to think this is good. Critical thinking breeds rebellion. I keep hoping for the rebellion
alp227
(32,026 posts)think about why College Republican organizations are so prevalent.
Igel
(35,317 posts)What you see is all there is.
IF you know 3 facts and don't know another 5, the only facts that matter are the 3. This is a little human trait that is fed by confirmation bias, encouraged by confirmation bias. Confirmation bias is just a contributing feature of the system.
We also assume that if we like something about a person (say, his taste in clothes) that it's relevant to everything else (say, his IQ or how he treats small children). So the three facts you know might not be all that important. But the human brain still says, when it's trying to find a conclusion, that even those facts are important. We can call this the "halo effect." It works just as well with a fact you don't like--"He's a republican" or "She doesn't properly appreciate my child's unique gifts, she must be a horrible teacher and kick puppies for fun."
The rot in education started in the '50s and early '60s, unless we want to consider segregated schools "rot". It was, but that was rot of a different kind. By the mid '60s we started having all kinds of educational fads and trends trying to remedy problems top-down given all sorts of messianic solutions. Whole-word. New math. There was one reading system that used a system of digraphs and colors/capitalization to "encode" something like phonics. They were going to eliminate the achievement gap. They were the Solution. Research would show the way to true enlightenment. And they were delusional even as they were saying, "You're not following my 23-step program? Do it for the children! Why do you hate kids?"
The problem was the actual data in the '50s and '60s showed a fairly high high-school drop-out rate, that a lot of students graduating high school weren't college and career ready (meaning they were innumerate and illiterate), and that this was disproportionately affecting rural and poor schools. When the black/poor correlation was pointed out, people started to care because then the real problem was that the achievement gap was affecting majority urban black schools. Few outside of education departments cared before that was pointed out. "Socially relevant" didn't worry about rural kids of any color or poor white kids. Only cities mattered. And average statistics showed whites were doing better than blacks, and to worry about deciles and quartiles in each race's demographic data would undermine the purity of the cause. The highest decile of blacks weren't doing too badly, and the lowest decile of whites were doing worse than blacks on average. Advocates' brains can't handle the nuance; not only are shades of gray confusing, but simple black and white thinking is a problem--they need blinding white and deepest black.
Once there were full-blown, publicly promoted and reported programs for LEPs and minorities, once funding was being directed by the feds preferentially to one group (leaving aside local funding differences), suddenly the full set of facts were politically relevant and a (R) administration could get involved in programs that affected all students and weren't just to improve minority education. We'd have grievance politics before. It was just one more variety of grievance politics.
Since then the various administrations have cherry picked the data (simply echoing education researchers who have elevated this to an art) and proclaimed those cherries to be Asian pears, mangos, and who knows what else instead of choke-cherries. The education messiahs continue to need new fads and ideas to reshape everything to their image, and they too often get federal administrations on board.
Take the latest drive for universal early childhood education. The research is crystal clear. For the lowest achievement groups, high-quality EC education helps children a lot until 3rd grade and has a significant effect on even college attendance. But you need to know the definitions to avoid WYSIATI: Lower-middle-class kids see almost no effect from EC education, and groups above them see even less. For those groups, it's not EC education it's free day care masquerading as "education." "High-quality" has a set definition, and involves reading, number practice, exposure to letters and phonics, and vocabulary building; the workers need special training, and there are strict time commitments. Most EC programs aren't high quality, and the results of the programs drop sharply as soon as the program doesn't meet the definition. By 5th grade, even high-quality programs have vanishing effects on student performance, although for a large enough sample the effects on college attendance are still statistically "significant." Meaning that though very small, the math says they're almost certainly there at a level greater than chance given a certain set of assumptions. (There's a selling point: Okay, vote for this program--it won't help most of you because you're in the wrong SES, it won't help most poor people because there aren't many high quality programs, it will cost a lot and will most likely show some positive effects at the end of high school for perhaps 1 in 1000 kids.)
Common Core? For all the (R) governor participation, it's education researchers that are behind it. Trendy, faddish ones. There are and always have been opposing voices. Duncan can't hear them.
NCLB? The first stirrings of data-driven education combined with a need for rigor and standards-correlated tests. Look to university departments of education for the origins of that. Ravitch was all for it because that's the way the data seemed to point. But education data is notoriously soft. It's like plasticine. The same data can point various directions, depends on the sculptor. Had to read one article and discuss the merits of the findings and how it should be applied in school districts, but I couldn't get past the idea that there were two subjects (two, 2, ii) with no controls and the one teacher involved was specially trained, and the data was from a classroom that involved just that teacher and one student at a time. The conclusion was for mainstreamed kids in classes of 25. I told the panel chair that I wouldn't want to wipe my butt with that paper, it was toxic. "But just imagine that there was a larger sample size and controls. Would those really matter?" She had a Ed.D. degree in the field. But she believed and was ideologically pure. See the problem?
The data on educational outcomes for school systems are robust. Large sample sizes, repeated measurements, replicated results. But you have to look at some details--so here we have a single cohort, other countries divide their cohort and we're comparing all our kids with their college-bound kids (and not their vocational kids). But when you get to advocacy-based research, where some ed theoretician wants to save society and change it over, the resesarch gets awfully sketchy. In many ways, the sketchier the research, the more socially-aware and conscious the conclusions, and the greater the impact. It helps if a marketing guru gets involved to sculpt the conclusions into some sort of a prepackaged program so nobody has to think about it. "This will produce 100% graduation rates at high levels, and my pants all become wrinkle free in the bargain! Goal!!!"
Fads in the '80s? In the '70s? In the '60s? Yeah, they were there and really sucky (otherwise they'd still be "best practices" . But that's where the halo effect matters. We see (D) initiatives, however idiotic, as good because it's blessed by the sacred (D). Often "seeing them as good" involves ignoring any failures (most were, and some were atrocious) and just evaluating motives. (R) initiatives, no less idiotic, suffer from the halo effect. Halos can be good or bad.
Personally, I think the (R) did a potentially good thing that turned out to be horrible. They took the fads and fetishes that were churning and undermining an already disproportionately dysfunctional, pathetic system serving the nation's rural and poor students and got the non-poor to insist on the same systems for their kids. This had the potential for cleaning up how we educated kids and having an open discussion about what was going on and why. Instead, it fed a research and marketing industry, politicians got rich always preaching the next great fad as a political panacea, advocates still had disproportionate effects because to a shockingly great extent the research showing that schools only determined a bit less than half of a kid's educational outcome still held true.
Yes, there were opposing voices from the '60s to the present. But what's important is to not just fall for WYSIATI, carefully protected by confirmation bias from seeing that the opposing voices were (a) in opposition to the dominant education-theorist voices and (b) either a minority or (c) had tried and failed to show adequate results but were still saying, "Give us more time" or "You didn't *really* try what I said" or "But it wasn't implemented in full accordance with my 3945-point re-revised protocol used in my forthcoming paper, the 193th on the topic." It's easy to see just the opposing voices that agree with us.
We can ignore other important, crucial details. For example, the definition of "literate" has changed. It's always been changing. Making your mark for a signature at one point meant "literate." Then signing your name. Reading the Bible (when you've heard it every week for 18 years). Reading novel, simple text. Then newspapers. Then actual "fine arts" literature. Now it requires a lot more to be considered literate. (Same for numeracy: Simple addition was once good enough. Now it's Algebra I, if not geometry and Algebra II.)
Bigmack
(8,020 posts)...from 1970 until 1998, so I have some perspective.
Even in a "rich" community, we had a certain amount of "feast or famine" because of the school bond system.
Then... Reagan hit, and while our community prided itself on good schools, the movement to cut back on school funding was always bubbling just below the surface.
Our pay stagnated for years while the cost of living went up. Supplies were cut back. Then computers came in ate up ALL the available money. Curriculum, supplies, etc....nothing left. Not blaming computers, just pointing out that while the MIC got blank checks, we had to rob from Peter...
When a whole slew of us that had been hired in the late 60's and 70's started to retire, the schools started to be remade into cookie-cutter, script-driven classrooms and curriculum. They scared the shit out of the new teachers and started teaching to the tests.
Politically, the RW moved into the school board and made it impossible for the new guys to teach anything controversial.
The Reaganites and their intellectual spawn are well on their way to killing public education.
madamesilverspurs
(15,805 posts)that I used to be a Republican. I hadn't voted that ticket for some time, but had never felt the need to drive across town to the clerk's office to change that affiliation. But it had become increasingly distasteful, and there finally came a moment when it became imperative to severe those ties.
That moment was when William Bennett, Reagan's 'Secretary of Trashing Education' announced what they intended to do about funding our schools. I was listening to the news at work, and put down my project and thought "Holy crap, we're screwed."
I've been thinking about that a lot these last few days, given that those Colorado students protesting the tea party school board attend school in the district where I began my own education back in the 1950s.
Initech
(100,079 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)Have.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)I remember there was something published entitled "Why Johnny Can't Read." I remember discussing that in one of my education classes, and I graduated shortly before Ronnie Raygun was elected, so there were "rumblings" of discontent even then.
Maybe that was why Carter broke education out of the Health, Education, & Welfare Dept.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)and the blueprint was The Powell Memorandum. It has only gained momentum since then.
There is nothing that the PTB and the oligarchs hate more than independent thinking. Nothing.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)At least as far as NYC public schools go. They sucked out loud in the 60's and 70's.